Thanks, Ken. Although I've been singing and playing guitar for many years, music theory in any form has always alluded me, for some reason. I did see the book is on Robert Force's website, but I've been reading it on Open Library, which I found a bit more reader friendly. I may contact him about my question, though.
In reading and rereading their x x+4 x x notation method, I'm not positive that their Ionian is my Ionian. CGG would not be notated the way they've written it, I don't think. In any event, you've confirmed what my ears heard - Ionian and Mixolydian sound fine when played open.
Thanks Dusty. After years of guitar playing I can hear a dissonant chord.
I've been reading In Search of the Wild Dulcimer, and under the tuning mode section it says a disadvantage of Ionian is the lack of an open strum. Is that right? I know that do is on the third fret, but I thought CGG as open tuning sounded ok? Thanks
Thanks (again) Skip. I was able to deepen the nut notches, and the action is a bit lower on that end. Tried to do the same on the bridge end, but there isn't much area to work with. Splitting the difference, as you describe, seems to be the way to go, here.
Here's a photo showing the string height.
Now that I'm sort of getting used to the wooden tuning pegs, I've started to notice that the melody string on my 1969 hand built dulcimer is always sharp when I use the noter (28.5" VSL, staple frets only under the melody string). I've tried easing up on the noter pressure, which helps a bit. If I tune the string down just a touch (slightly flat) it sounds better anywhere up the fretboard but when played open. Problem is the instrument seems to have been built with a high sitting bridge (which I assume is causing the string to go sharp when pressed at the fret). The bridge of course cannot be lowered except to cut down the end cap holding the bridge (which I wouldn't do). The bridge itself is about as low on the end cap as it can go, sticking up just slightly. The nut placement is ok - if the bridge were at that level, there wouldn't be a problem. The action, from the top of fret to string, is - first fret 1/16, middle 1/8, last fret 3/16 (all approximate).
Any ideas? Go heavier or lighter on string gauge? Different tuning (CGG at the moment)? Thanks
OK, here's a photo of my (I think) following instructions on creating a new, larger loop. Larger one to the left, original one to the right. Have I got it now? (and I want to thank every experienced person whose patience I have tried about what may be a very simple solution to my problem)
What may be a dumb question - won't I them have two loops? Can I just cut off the original loop?
Thanks Strumelia. I see that your suggested method is a simpler version of those found in the videos, especially for people without the right tools.
So, two excellent ideas. If I can't file the knob down to more easily fit the loops, I'll try Strumelia's larger loop method. For wrapped, larger strings I'd have to use the unwrapped end that's meant to fit into the peg hole, rather than the wrapped end, I'd assume? Thanks
Maybe I could just carefully sand down the diameter of the end piece so the loops will more easily fit over it?
Ken, the original string set I had on (and have put back on) was a D'Addario dulcimer set, 12, 12, 14, 22. I'm not sure what you mean by a running loop. Will pulling the other end through the loop make it bigger?
Ok, I received the lighter strings today (Vega light banjo strings - 9, 10, 13, 20, 9). Promptly broke both 9's and the 20 trying to string them up. Interestingly, it wasn't while tuning - this dulcimer has one 3/16" diameter knob (sticking out about 1/4") on the bridge end on which to fit the string loops (as opposed to screws or multiple knobs). In order to do that, the loops have to be slightly stretched due to the size of the knob. That seems to sometimes weaken the loops, causing them to break. I think I saw banjo string sets that claim to have larger loops, so I might try them.
In addition, I slightly sanded the pegs, as Randy had recommended, only allowed for a few wraps before cutting off the excess at the pegs as Ken said, and installed the strings left to right - for some reason I had been connecting the bass string to what was the middle peg (see my prior photos). I'm back to 12, 12 and 22, in C G G tuning. The pegs seem to hold, but it's maddening to get them tuned just right, even to each other - I'm reading that that is an acquired skill.
So thanks to all of you, I'm getting there!
Thanks again to all for your suggestions. So I'm going to install lighter strings, lightly sand the peg shafts, and, if needed, acquire some peg drops. I have a feeling the Hiderpaste I applied may have had the opposite effect.
Thanks Strumelia. I was beginning to suspect what you said about C tuning for this longer, older instrument. I'll try going lighter and see if there's a balance between floppy strings and slipping pegs in C tuning
!
To both Ken's, on bass string recommendations - .018 or .020 plain, or .020 wound, for my 28" VSL? And yes, the tuning peg shafts are thin - looking at the possibility of replacing them, even violin pegs seem somewhat wider in diameter, which would require reaming the holes or sanding down the new pegs, neither of which I'd be comfortable doing. Even replacing them with Grover dulcimer tuners would require alterations. I agree with Ken Hulme that I should perhaps try to salvage the original pegs. Thanks
Ken, I thought you might like to see more photos of my dulcimer. Attached are photos showing the label, back with feet, and a side view showing what I'm told is unusual, 'open' fretboard sides. Reminds me of a Roman aqueduct. There are openings cut in the dulcimer top, somewhat corresponding to these fretboard openings.
Thanks for the info, Ken. I happened upon this dulcimer four years ago at a guitar show, took it home cleaned it up and restrung it. Reading Jean Ritchie's books and other research explained what I had, in the way of staple frets, hand made pegs, etc. The label shows it was made by Carl E. LaTray, of Frankfort, NY, dated March 20, 1969, and he designated it "No. 1". Couldn't find much on him, except that he did make instruments as a hobby, and passed away in 2013, at the age of 85. The strings I currently have on it are D'Addario's, 12, 12, and a wound 22. I suspect they are too heavy for the instrument, which may contribute to the peg slipping problem (?). The VSL is 28" exactly. I didn't think I needed as many wraps around the pegs, but when I wrap less of the 22 gauge string it consistently snaps as I'm turning it up to tone, for some reason. I have actually tuned it as you suggest - a bit sharp and let it settle back to tone. Ken Longfield and I had been communicating on this forum some time ago about this instrument, and he took a look at it during a visit to my area. I'll try for lighter strings and less wraps if that's what you recommend. Thanks again.
Ken, I think I've now attached two photos. Thanks for your help.
Jost, I haven't mastered chording (as opposed to the noter) or finger picking, as opposed to a pick. Still learning to tune (see my other posts about my wooden tuner battle) and pick out tunes with a noter. I think the distance between strings is the same on the dulcimer as it is on the guitar, but I can see needing a wider fretboard if you're used to a guitar fretboard. I'm personally more comfortable with a 2" classical guitar type fretboard, and have found even 1/8" difference can make fretting harder.
Thanks Skip. That's what I've been doing lately. Very frustrating to have such a learning curve ahead of me for what should be a simple tuning process. Used to guitars and ukuleles. Never played violin.
Skip, to answer your question - this is my first experience with wooden pegs. Only used to guitar type geared tuners.
Yes Ken, I'm going for at least a DAA option
VSL is exactly 28"
I'll try to post photos later.
So I changed the (old) strings, sanded the pegs as suggested and applied a little paste. The pegs are a bit more usable, but still won't stay put at anything above C-G-G, and even that combination is actually flat (really B#-F#-F# - yes I know there's no B#). Should I perhaps try lighter gauge strings? I'm currently using D'Addario 12, 12 and 22w. Also, my dulcimer is a hand made instrument from 1969, with what seem to be pegs on the smaller side - 2" long shaft, but a diameter of 1/4" tapered down to 3/16". Thanks
Thanks Dusty. Definitely food for thought.
Thanks, Lois. While I fingerpick folk music on guitar, I'm still at the noter stage on dulcimer. Saw a doctor and am treating what seems to be an arthritic finger (ain't gettin' old great?), but I may be joining your camp - I don't know how much I want to push my luck with it.
Thanks Randy. That may be worth a shot!
My wooden pegs have had it. No amount of goop, drops, etc. is helping. Need to find geared or friction tuners to fit. Could I just use ukulele type tuners? Thanks
I'm starting to develop pain in my left hand pinky from guitar playing. I have a mountain dulcimer that I've started playing in noter style. Has anyone else actually made a complete switch to mountain dulcimer from guitar for this reason?
Thanks
dulcimer1.pdf - 106KB
