Forum Activity for @ag-murton

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi everyone. 

I have picked up my Roosebeck from the luthier, and as promised, here's an update: 

The luthier fashioned a new bone bridge that fits more snugly in its slot. He also glued the nut in place. More importantly, he addressed the tuning peg issues. It seems that Roosebeck used standard guitar machine tuners, which have a lot of washers and nuts to stop the pins from bending, as they would not be supported otherwise on a guitar. However, on the dulcimer, they pass through the peg head, and the end of the pin is supported because it fits neatly into a hole on the other side, so there is no need for the nuts and washers. The luthier removed these so that the strings can now be wound closer to the edges of the peg head. I just have to leave a bit of extra length on the string when I restring. This reduces the angle the string takes from the nut to the tuner. You can see the before and after pictures attached. 

I also asked him to cut slots for three string arrangements: 

- 4 string double melody: I asked him to bring the melody strings closer together, as I found my finger was slipping between them. He reduced the distance between them by 1 mm, and it has made a huge difference. The middle string is now actually centred over the fret board, and is equidistant between the outer melody string and the bass string, which is great because it has made strumming easier.

- 4 string equidistant: the slots he cut are shallow enough that I don't have to detune much to slip the strings across. 

- 3 string equidistant: I can now remove the inner melody string so I have three equidistant strings. 

I can now use any tuning I like without the nut and bridge moving at all. 

Finally, I asked for the following string action: 1.5 mm at the first fret; 2.5 mm at the seventh fret; 3 mm at the 17th fret. He achieved this perfectly, and I love the action now. (Apologies for using mm - I'm not familiar with inches.)

Thank you all very much for your contributions, without which I would have struggled to explain what I needed from the luthier. (He works primarily on violins and cellos, and he'd never worked on a dulcimer before, but he did an excellent job, and I'm happy to say that the Roosebeck sounds and plays great and the intonation is perfect.)

Although it cost me an extra R1700 ($90), I still don't regret buying the Roosebeck because it was basically my only option, and without it, I wouldn't be playing dulcimer right now.

updated by @ag-murton: 06/11/24 04:07:31AM

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I discovered that there's a very good luthier who lives down the road from me. He said I should bring the instrument round tomorrow and he'll have a look. 

I'll be sure to let you guys know what he says. 

Another thing I should mention is that the middle string is not equidistant between the bass and melody strings. It's closer to the bass string. I saw another Roosebeck owner mention this in another forum so I don't know if that's by design on their part. I can't really see the utility in that. 

Also, the melody strings are about 4mm (0.157 inch) apart. I'm not sure what the ideal distance is but it seems like a larger gap than I've seen on other dulcimers.

I could almost certainly make a new nut and bridge or cut the desired slots myself but there's no harm in having a pro check it out.

updated by @ag-murton: 06/05/24 11:00:21AM

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

That's a very interesting point about the tuners. I hadn't thought of that.

Out of interest, I detailed my problem to the customer service department of the supplier and this was their (somewhat dubious) response:

Thank you for your very detailed inquiry. 

 

I talked to the repair shop at Roosebeck and they are more in the position that their instruments were not designed to be "customized", and that using the instrument with any fewer strings than designed will cause an imbalance that is causing the movement.

 

They say the only way to keep the bridge and nut from moving is to glue it down. They use Loctite glue.

 

Of the various options you have compiled, it seems if you want to keep the two pieces from slipping or moving around, but don't want to glue it down, you may want to try spraying the back of the pieces with non-permanent spray adhesive, they stuff they use on fabrics, headliners, etc. If you search on Amazon, you may find a liquid non permanent adhesive. This would be the preferred option versus permanent glue or screws into the wood.

 

If the adhesive solution does not hold tight enough and you have to resort to screwing things in place, go peruse the Home Depot isle where they stock screws and brackets, you can most likely find a very small screw/bracket/washer that you can screw into the sides of the bridge to lock it in place.

 

Should be a selection of washers like this at Home Depot for you to find the right size, then you would need a very small wood screw.

 

Sorry we can't offer an exact solution, but it looks like you have explored all the options.

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Haha no worries. I need all the help I can get!

Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this issue. It's awesome to have such a helpful community to turn to.

I'll post an update in case someone has a similar issue down the line. 

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The nut and bridge are in their slots. They are sliding in their slots towards the melody string due to the tension in the bass string when I tune the melody strings down to A. There's no problem in Dadd and the scale is nearly perfect. Slightly sharp after the tenth fret, but not noticeably so. I'm just beginning to learn so I'm not too worried about that. 

It seems my best option is to put a couple of spots of glue and keep an eye on it. I might also make myself a spacer as suggested in one of the posts. 

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@dwain-wilder thanks for the information. Here are a few pictures of the instrument. I understand your reservations about foreign-made instruments.

However, living in South Africa and not having a lot of money limits me somewhat in terms of access to American instruments.

I read quite positive things about the roosebeck Grace and was just able to afford it from Amazon, so I need to make it work. I must say it sounds really nice. And it feels nice to play. Even the action is great. I just encountered this problem today when I took the second melody string off. 

The bridge and nut did move around when I tuned it up the first time but aligned perfectly on their own once I got it to DAdd. 

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thank you so much @nate and @skip. Those are very helpful suggestions. 

I had no idea there were so many factors to consider. I'm used to switching between tunings on the banjo like crazy and assumed I'd have a similar experience on the dulcimer. You live and learn. 

Much appreciated. 

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Update: I've put the second melody string back on now but the bridge and nut still won't sit flush. I'm tuned DAA.

Shifting bridge and nut

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi all.

I'm having a problem with my brand new Roosebeck dulcimer. 

I tried to remove one of the melody strings but when I did, the bridge and nut shifted to the left (away from the bass string). It seems the tension in the bass string combined with the angle the string takes from the nut to the tuner overpowers the opposing force of just one melody string. 

I'm new to dulcimer so I'm wondering if my instrument is just set up so that it only works properly with two melody strings or if it's normal for the bridge and nut to shift like that (I would assume not).

Any advice is appreciated.

Andrew.