Forum Activity for @folkfan

Actually what it is is that we're dotty. Or at least some of us are dotty and others are not and sometimes we're both.

Marking dots that is.

Hi Gayle. Welcome to the family. I'm sort of with Dana. We're family and it's a family where everyone is welcome.

The root is the first note of the scale and is usually tuned on the bass as in DAA, DAd, CGG or CGc, GDD or GDg. These tunings would be shown numerically as 1-5-5 for DAA, CGG or 1-5-8 for DAd or CGc. The middle string is then tuned to the 5th note of the scale.

However, people do use other tunings to play in certain keys as they are easier to tune with the string gauges that are on their dulcimers. Since I normally tune to the key of C Ionian or CGG/ 1-5-5, it is easier for me to tune my C bass string up one note to a D if I want to play in the key of G, instead of having to change string gauges to get GDD. I leave the middle and melody alone so I still have G drone and a D drone, but my beginning scale note is now on the open melody string. I can play 1-5-8 tab by playing the lower notes on the bass string rather than the middle. Some people play A by doing the same thing but by going from DAA to EAA.

If someone is in DAd then going down on the middle string one note to G gives them G in what is known as reverse Ionian or DGd. You'll see this tuning frequently in tab as it's becoming more popular.

Yep, My idea is to avoid having to learn different fingering patterns for the same song in different keys but just one tuning. I have enough trouble learning a single melody line for a song as is. But with retuning I can use what I do know but in different keys. So different strokes for different folks. All's good.

And by staying in an Ionian tuning for songs that are in the major scale, I avoid having to skip over to the middle line for the lower notes. I do so hate trying to finger dance on the middle string. No problems using the bass line for really low notes, but I flub up on the middle constantly. Go figure?

Skip said:

Many keys, many tunings, one tab; Many keys, many tabs, one tuning.Different approaches for different goals.

I really don't like to retune, lazy I suppose. I have enough dulcimers to tune each to a different 1-5-8 but I only take one or two south with me.

I'm also getting to appreciate more and more the basic bass players approach,rhythmand one note chord backups. They do fancy stuff also but I don't know that I'll ever go there.

Skip, What I'd do (and just did) was look up Wildwood Flower at Digital Traditions as I don't have it tabbed out, or didn't have it tabbed out.

http://sniff.numachi.com/lookup.cgi?ds1=G&ds2=G&ds3=C&t...

Now with this tab, I can learn to play just one version of Wildwood Flower and yet play it in any key I can tune to. I normally play CGG, so DAA is just as easy as is AEE or GDD on my baritone. Ccc would also be possible on the dulcimer that I've got strung for Bagpipe tunings. One tab with many keys.

Skip, I'm in total agreement with "the everyone would sound alike part" being a boring idea too. I understand the question you were posing now. If someone wants to use a melody that they know in a DAA format but they are tuned to DAd, it just isn't going to work. The player would have to do a subtract 3 so that the tabbed numbers would fall on the correct fret. A DAA 9th fret comes up as a 6+ fretting in DAd using subtract 3. No matter how you tune, you have to know where the scale starts.

I do my own tabbing since most of the music I play isn't a regular part of the dulcimer repertoire and I use just a fret number to indicate what note to play. I'll use SMN to get my fret numbering then I discard the SMN and use the tab. Since I know what mode I'm suppose to be playing in, I can choose the key I want to play and still use the same tab. The tab acts as an instant transposing tool as I tend to play music in lower keys than say the SMN has indicated.

Skip, A simple fact is that you can't play a true mixolydian mode tune which uses the flatted 7th note in DAA which gives you the scale notes needed for Ionian mode tunes. DAd is the tuning needed for mixolydian mode tunes as the 6th fret will have the flatted note of the mixolydian scale.

Most people now who are using a DAd tuning aren't really playing mixolydian tunes which are actually fairly rare compared to Ionian mode tunes. With the addition of the 6+ fret a player can get the Ionian scale to start at the open position tuned DAd. Traditionally the Ionian scale started at the 3rd fret on a completely diatonic (no extra frets) instrument.

So my brother will play "Brother John" in DAd as 0120, 0120, 234,234, etc. while I play the same song in DAA as 3453,3453,567,567. The notes are exactly the same, DEF#D, DEF#D, F#GA, F#GA tuned DAd or DAA.

And it doesn't matter if you play noter/drone or chord the melody notes remain the same. The only thing that changes is where you find them on the fret board. So chord finger patterns change but a D chord is a D chord. There isn't even a change in the drones as the DA drones in DAd or DAA remain at the same tuning.

Some people though when playing chords or finger picking can find the drones irritating. I was actually told to my face by someone that she didn't like the drones. She was the type that wanted the group to only play chord/melody so that everyone would sound alike.

HEHEHEHEHE, Sam, as to children. My little one doesn't eat meat much more than I do. I picked up the go "TOFU" routine from her. Drives my hubby nuts.

And nuts is what I had for dinner with veggies and rice noodles. Dry roasted unsalted peanuts to be exact.

Dana, Can you say "Buttah"

Dana R. McCall said:

Sorry but that is suposed to be 1/2 stick of butter.

Sam, Your Original Pizza looks good. Certainly one that my husband would enjoy. Unfortunately the last time I ate pizza that had a decent amount of fat in it, I got a tummy ache. That was just last week. My tummy's been out of training on eating meat fats for a year now.

Sam said:

Sams Original Pizza

Well for something sweet my mom used to make "Rio Bravo Pralines"

2 cups pecan halves

1 cup sugar

1 cup brown sugar packed dark or light depends on your taste or what you have to hand

3/4 cup evaporated milk

2 TBSP butter

1/8 tsp salt

Combine all ingredients in a 4 qt. glass bowl suited to microwave

Microwave on high 12 minutes and stir every 3 minutes. Beat mixture vigorously by hand until tacky. Drop by teaspoonfuls onto buttered wax paper. Cool until firm. Fight off kids so that you can get one.

The number was after as in D3, D4.

Skip said:

ff;

did the readout have the number before or after the note? If the number was before it is a dedicated tuner, like a guitar orukulele tuner. The number then represents a string.

Thanks, Ivan. That eliminates the Korg CA-1 as a possible suspect (or purchase).

Ivan Bradley said:

In reply to folkfan, I have a Korg CA-1 and, no, it doesn't show the octave reference for the note.

Never had a tuning fork, but still have the pitch pipe that I had to have for my college music theory class. Never could get it to register correctly as I tend to be a blow hard type. The tin or penny whistle was an instrument I tried to play once upon a time and had trouble getting the right notes on it too. And there is the added disadvantage in that I couldn't sing while playing it. So I could never remember the tune I wanted to play.

Robin Clark said:

BTW - whatever happened to tuning forks

Skip, It isn't the Korg-OT-120 or a Peterson. The name Peterson didn't ring a bell at all with my poor old wandering brain.

Ken, I like the cents off feature on the Seiko SAT501 and I'll have to see about that.

Does anyone have a Korg CA1? And if you do, does it show the number for the octave. All the pictures I've seen of the screen on the CA-1 simply shows an A, but not it's position as A1, A2, etc. The Korg GA1 for guitars seems to be pictured showing the octave number.

Recently at a festival, I was helping a young boy tune his new instrument. He'd had a really nice tuner, but I didn't write the company's name down. I think it was Korg, but can't remember. What I liked about this tuner is that it gave a pitch reference. Instead of just listing D, it gave D3, D4, A3, A4, etc and it was chromatic. Does anyone have a similar tuner??? All of mine, new and old, including the Korg CA-30 just say A,B,C,D,E, etc.

So I've go a tuner that knows is ABC's, now I want one that counts, too.

http://sweetwoodsinstruments.com/specialties.htm

Sweet Woods Instruments has a very nice travel instrument. It has an adjusting feature that works well in taking humid to dry weather changes into consideration.

The post that I have had pop up very quickly and then disappear mentioned Aaron O'Rourke. I've missed the bottom half of the comment every time. Was that the one you deleted??

Dusty, Every time I try to read your reply, it disappears and never comes back. Weird

Paul, Thanks for confirming what I was going by. The law doesn't guarantee that you can carry an instrument aboard, just that instruments are allowed as in cabin carry-on, if they fit the compartment space and if that space is available when boarding. And that you won't have to render up your firstborn as payment. But as the article points out, since many people are carrying everything they can on board, the over-head space quickly fills up.

The last flight I was on had so much stuck into bins, that people boarding after me had to have their bags either gate checked or crammed in bins. And I mean crammed. Attendants were pushing and shoving and slamming bags in and out of bins trying to get them closed. Made me shudder, but thankful that my carry on bag had nothing fragile in it.

Having your carry-on gate checked isn't uncommon. Having the entire last section to board gate check their luggage has been known to happen. So it's a good idea to make sure that your instrument is prepared for the belly of the beast, along with anything that won't fit under the seat in front of you.

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/blog/skies-are-now-guitar-friendly-congress-orders-airlines-let-you-carry-your-musical-instrument

The gentleman who had a cardboard case was lucky that there was room in the storage closet. If the attendant hadn't stored it there, it would have had to fit in the overhead storage bin, and there would have to be enough bin space available for it to be a carry on.

Does anyone have any more up to date info on the current regs. in place?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/vintage-gibson-guitar-delta-baggage-leevees-214634001.html

This hurts. Whatever the law says about carrying on an instrument, just don't assume it will be followed. Airlines break guitars.

I think a major portion of the problem you'll have is on loading. Depending on which section you manage to get in on and how much others have carried on before you, there may or may not be much room left in the bins. And the space breaks up in to smaller and tighter spaces as those overhead bins fill up. There have been a couple of times I know of recently that the last loading section had all their carry on luggage gate checked. No ifs ands or maybes. There was not room in the bins for what they were carrying and it went to the belly of the beast.

If you are travelling on different airlines be sure that the size for a check in bag is the same size. Though as I remember Bing Futch got on one plane and discovered that the bins had all been cut down in size and his instrument didn't fit anymore. Here's part of that story.

http://www.everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2...

Hope your travels are better, and that you can find an overhead bin with enough space for your instrument, and don't have any other passenger force their bag in on top of yours. The last trip I took on American to England was a disaster with over crowding. One of the earlier flights had mechanical problems and half of that flight ended up traveling in the evening on mine. Not one seat was free. And bags were being shuffled up and down the plane trying to fit them in. It delayed departure. So be prepared.

If you can try to get into a situation where you can board early and get your dulcimer in the overhead. Then pray that all other bags that will also be shoved into the same compartment don't over fill. I remember one attendant yelling down the length of the plane to a man who just put in the last suitcase in the bin that the bin had to close. She ended up coming down and taking it out. I don't know where she finally stuck that case. It's alright for the government to say that the airlines have to take the instruments but no one has quite figured out how they are going to get all the extra carry on bags in the plane. Several times now family members when traveling have been in boarding groups where their carry on bags weren't even taken into the plane as the plane's compartments were crammed full. Everything for that group of passengers had to be gate checked. Or you could always buy a seat for your instrument and have no problem.

Whatever you do don't plan on putting your case under the seats. I've yet to see a plane that has a completely obstruction free area under the seats to begin with. Plus the person sitting next to you might seriously object to having what foot room the plane does proved for each seat taken up by your extra long under seat bag. Plus if the flight is of any length, your legs might protest the cramped spacing they'd get if you completely fill the space in front of you with a bag.

If I was going to carry a dulcimer with me, I'd get a gun case or golf club case and pay the extra for check in baggage. But trying to carry it on, nope. Sometimes passengers even end up having to check their carry on bags as there isn't enough room for all the luggage people carry on in the overhead bins. So you'd have to be prepared for that situation anyway.

Jerry, Are you asking about the zither pins on my courting box dulcimer? If you are, then my answer would be that I don't play it as much as I do other dulcimers I have that use geared guitar type of tuners. I have arthritis in my hands. There are times that I a just can't get the zither pins accurately tuned using a wrench. Just gripping the wrench can hurt.

Here's a photo of a smaller instrument I have that uses zither pins.

http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/photo/img4887-1?context=user

I'm ready to trash this one as I can't tune the pins on it at all. Good day or bad they are so tight and stiff that controlling the wrench is just too awkward.

I think that one takes the cake and puts the icing on it. My first thought was a great instrument to play "Pistol Packin' Mama" on. The next was to wonder if the alien finger picks???

My courting box dulcimer is about the most unusual dulcimer that I have a photo of. It has it's own removable lid.

Randy, Thanks for posting this video. Mostly I don't listen to mountain music on the fiddle, but Mr. Hartford playing gives a sweet sound to this tune. Mostly I tend to associate the fiddle with a screech (guess I haven't heard many good fiddle players or the right tunes). I'll have to do a search and see if I can find more of his work.

Truth to tell, in the past, Ashokan Farewell is the only fiddle tune that I've listened to and really enjoyed. Thanks again.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20242/karin039s-german-feinbrot

http://www.food.com/recipe/german-dark-rye-bread-43285

Looks like the taste is in the sour dough and the spices and cocoa.

Phil, Is the bread called "Hanseaten bread" Vollweizenbrot would be whole wheat bread, but I don't seem to find "Hanseaten" brot recipe.

Spoke too soon, I'm getting there. "Hanseatenbrot" a mostly RYE bread

http://www.stadtbaeckerei-b2b.de/english/product/hanseatenbrot-prebaked.html

Ivan, Ken previously wrote that "All Through The Night" was in Ionian. The reason I asked about his fretting was to see if he was working with a different variation of the tune than I was. If so, then how it sounded in Dorian would be different than the version I'm playing. I'd tried my version in Dorian, but I'm so used to playing and singing it in Ionian that I couldn't get it to sound right to me.

A lot of people experiment with different tunings on modal music and come up with interesting sounding tunes. Lisa just did a video of "Go Tell Aunt Roadie" or "The Old Grey Goose" in Dorian. It sounded "Medieval" and not like "The Old Grey Goose" at all. Spooky.

Ken mentions doing the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald in Dorian, my version is in Mixolydian, but I don't use a 1-5-8 tuning for it. My tuning is DGG with the G being played at the open string on the melody. This has a different sound than the more traditional GDg tuning for Mix, but it works for me.

You play the same fretting positions that I do, but our tunings are different. Going from Ionian to Dorian really hits my ear as wrong and leaves my mind in a muddle . My ears are going "what the heck??? that's all.

What fingering are you using for say "All Through The Night". Mine in Ionian goes All/1 Through/2 the/2 night/3. Tuning to Dorian (1-5-3) and using that sounds wrong so how are you transposing it?

http://sniff.numachi.com/lookup.cgi?ds1=C&ds2=C&ds3=F&ti=THRUNITE&tt=THRUNITE&tab=d

Ken, What version of "All Through The Night" do you play? The one I do is basically the same as this one. Doesn't strike me as a minor song. I do "Come O'er The Stream Charlie" and "Cindy" in a major mode too.

Found this site when looking for some sheet music.

http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/index.html

I'm going to have to go back and spend several days just browsing. Wheeeee

Mandy, Usually one develops DAD or DAA which are Dulcimer Acquisition Disease, or Dulcimer Acquisition Addiction. And if you develop DAD, buy two dulcimers and call me in the morning. Or if you end up with DAA, just feed your habit.

Mandy said:

Hey Barbara,

My take on this is a little different actually. I want one of everything! By that I mean lots of different instruments. After I got my first banjo I realized within a year that it was going to stick and I needed to upgrade. So I upgraded when i could and sold off my first one to help pay for my new dulcimer. I'm getting my very own guitar as an anniversary present from my husband . Now I figure all I need is an upright bass, fiddle, and maybe a mando and I'll be all set!

I've seen this affliction you speak of called BAS (banjo acquisition syndrome) in banjo circles, MAS (mandolin acquisition syndrome) in mando circles and I suppose it's the same here DAS (dulcimer acquisition syndrome). But mine would be called IAS I guess (instrument acquisition syndrome). LOL. The great thing about any of them is that once you start playing a musical instrument you have so much fun you want MORE.

Ken, You're correct as to Bagpipe tuning allowing for Mixolydian and Ionian playing without worrying about the key. I just used the key of C for an example since that's how I learned to tune all modes way back when. Glad you're enjoying playing in Bagpipe. Have you tried barring across all the strings with the noter? One book I have suggests this style of play to "bang out the melody good and loud". Doesn't sound like it would be good for all songs, but might suit "Bonnie Dundee" very well and other tunes of that ilk.

Ken Hulme said:

Regardless of key (C, D, A, G) Bagpipe tuning does - for those of us without 6+ frets - what DAd tuning does for those with the 6+. It lets us play both Mixolydian and Ionian tunes without re-tuning, and sounds pretty darn good with both.

I've been a DAA/Ionian Modal tuning player for darn near 40 years. Just recently I've taken to exploring Bagpipe tuning, and I must say I'm really hooked.

Jim,

Since I've a dulcimer strung for Ccc, I don't have problems with retuning. Talk about lazy. Also with Ccc, I can play Mixolydian starting from the open (c) or Ionian from 3 (f). The Cc drones sound ok with both since CGc has a C drone and the key of F also has a C drone with FCC. With F there just isn't a tonic drone in F.

Just a thought on Bagpipe is that Ccc must have been popular at one time since the very oldest or earliest printed books I borrowed from the library usually discussed Bagpipe tuning in the key of C. Of course, all tunings were discussed in C, with Ionian mentioned first. Unison drones weren't mentioned. I learned about Galax tuning from the internet forums.

Jim Edwards said:

Ccc bagpipe tuning? I bet that sounds cool.

Of course, if you're lazy like me and don't want to replace your middle string (and assuming, like me, that you only have one melody string), you could probably tune CGc and finger-noter the middle string for a similar effect. Also, if you need that flatted seventh (Mixolydian mode), you could probably tune DGd and have a droning fifth instead of a droning root note. I bet that would sound cool, too.

Cheers,

Jim

Barbara, There are two tunings that use a single note across the strings. One is called "Unison" as in dddd and is also used for the Galax style of playing. I've heard the tuning also called "Galax". I've never tried this tuning, but have used the Bagpipe tuning which has an octave difference in the drones. The bass string being tuned one octave below the middle and melody strings. On my instrument I have it tuned Bass C below middle c and middle and melody at middle c.

Barbara P said:

Dusty Turtle

John, that is lovely that both you and your wife play! ANd it sounds like she's catching up with you in the dulcimer department!

folkfan, that just clicked with me. I had read something about the tunings 155, 158 etc. but now, your post makes sense. Tunings seem to be the hardest thing for me to understand. But explanations like yours, are slowly getting into my head! Thank you!

That's interesting Ken. I just learned about bagpipe tuning on this thread! I wonder how many instruments are just tuned to DAd or DAA and not given the opportunity to shine in, say DDD? Mine for example, it's only been tuned to four tunings, but maybe it's some other tuning it's longing to play? I am really starting to understand the individuality of instruments. I didn't see that before.

Carrie, You do know don't you that any tab you have in a DAd tabbing can be played in the same note relationship in another key. So tab for DAd is CGc, or AEa. It's the same for DAA tab played CGG, or AEE etc. Since I can't sing high, I don't even have a dulcimer tuned in D, but use DAd or DAA tab all the time as everyone seems to automatically tab in it.

Carrie Barnes said:

Barb, well, I started on my Apple Creek which has now been officially retired due to the arrival of the McSpadden, on the horizon is their bass model and a dulcibanjo. Hmm, festival coming up, wonder if acquisitions are to be made there, LOL!'

I don't think there is a certaing number I want, "all" would be a good answer, just cause it would be nice not to retune. Tho happily at DADD, I want to explore other tunings, and have collected tab for CGC, AEA, the list is endless. Hence, the collecting will continue. As my experience grows playing, so does the quest for another dulcimer, guess that's the best answer.