Forum Activity for @dusty

Gayle, I know a pretty accomplished mandolin player who echos folkfan's advice. He told me to put my instruments near the speakers of my stereo and let the wood vibrate to the music. That way they would be "improving with age" not only when I play, but during all the down time, too. I can't say I've actually done that, though.

Oh, and I am a big believer in changing strings. New strings sound better and are much easier on your fingertips.

In Search of the Wild Dulcimer is both an historical artifact and still a useful guide to the instrumnet. It's nice that its available in digital form, but you can also find hard copies for sale at reasonable prices on Ebay and elsewhere.

Gayle, Robin is certainly right that different websites have different personalities, and Strumelia and the early members here certainly set a friendly and encouraging tone that is what has drawn so many of us to this little corner of the internet.

But I also think that something of the dulcimer's personality comes out in those who play the instrument. It is a humble folk instrument with no pretense at all. It can make very sophisticated music (not in my hands, of course) but is more at home on the porch being played by familiy and friends who care more about having fun than impressing anyone.

And no one can play something called a hogfiddle and take themselves too seriously.

How 'bout "Groundhog?"

Here comes Sally with a snigger and a grin

Groundhog gravy all over her chin

Ken, a discussion on songs about food might be a nice idea!

Ken Hulme said:

Boiled cabbage, squirrel heads in gravy, five pounds of possum, Peas pease eatin' goober peas, how many other food related songs are there of similar nature???

Helen, Rob Gibson was one of the people I first considered when I was buying my first dulcimer. In the end I went with someone more local because the idea of buying an instrument over the phone made me nervous. But since then I've heard a lot of great things about his dulcimers, and just a few weeks ago I found a used one at a local music store. I tuned it up and played it for a while. The sound box is a little bigger than most dulcimers, and that gave it a bit of extra volume. My guess is that it was the Jenny Lind model. The action was really nice and intonation exellent. As you say, it also looks really pretty. I was awfully tempted to buy it, but I just depleted my discretionary fund on a baritone dulcimer, so I had to leave this beauty behind.

His prices are reasonable and his instruments are of high quality. He also posts audio files of each dulcimer he makes, so you can tell what they sound like. I don't think you can go wrong with Ron Gibson.

Hi Cathy,

You may already have found that you are getting more information than you expected. Embrace that fact and learn as much as you can.

To your specific questions, I have personally never heard anything bad about the Black Mountain dulcimers, but I have often heard people sing the praises of TK O'Brien and McSpadden as well as other builders.

As you probably know, astandard dulcimer usually has avibrating string length (VSL)of 25-29 inches. Dulcimers that are shorter than that are usually tuned higher, either to a fourth or fifth above in the keys of G or A or a full octave above to a high D. Dulcimers such as the McSpadden Ginger or Ron Ewing's baritone dulcimette, for example, are usually tuned to G or A. If you want to play with your husband or other at a dulcimer jam or workshop, you won't really be able to do so. You may want to visit the group here I started a while back called Little Dulcimers, and in particular right now you may want to look at the list of little dulcimer makers that I am compiling there. That list indicates the VSL and the intended key of the dulcimers. You will notice that only two makers (Mike Clemmer and Folkroots) listed thereregularly makedulcimers with VSLs less than 25" that are intended to be played in the same key as standard dulcimers.

I point this out because a couple of other people have recommended little dulcimers to you and you should be aware that most of them are intended to be played in a different key or a different octave than a standard dulcimer. However, your initial question is about standard dulcimers with a 26" VSL and you seem to be wondering whether your less-than-professional playing deserves a dulcimer nicer than the cheaper ones out there.

To that question I say yes. You do not need to spend a thousand dollars, but if you can afford $300 or a bit more you can get a really nice dulcimer. And some makers such as David "Harpmaker" Lynch (also a member here) offer really nice student models even less expensive than that. LIke all good luthiers, David will work with you and make sure you get a dulcimer sized and priced just for you. Get a dulcimer that encourages you to play and facilitates your improvement. If you get a dulcimer with inaccurate intonation or buzzing strings or whatever, you will not want to play it and will either give up or have to buy another dulcimer soon. Get a dulcimer worthy of the player you hope to become rather than the one who is just beginning now.

Here is a picture of an autoharp my uncle (of Pawprint Autoharps) made for me a few years back. Notice that the main tuners for each string are zither pins. But down below are fine tuners which are adjustable with a tiny allen wrench.

As Ken has explained, it can be hard to tune a string with great precision using those zither pins; the fine tuners allow more nuanced adjustment. And incidentally, this autoharp was a prototype. My uncle now covers up those fine tuners with a nice piece of wood. We all agreed that this version reminds us of a teenager's braces.

Thanks for sharing this. My favorite is the Parlor stove bass fiddle.

Laura Elder said:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150878062047267.406304.7...

Here are a few more pics from the Facebook link

Wow, I had these pictures up while playing my own dulcimer, which jumped off my lap with a tear in her eye and cried "gramdma!"

A lot of folks use Just Strings . A string is a string, after all, whether one calls it a dulcimer string or a guitar string. Just pay attention to whether you want loop end or ball end.

I actually have a deal with a local acoustic music shop. Whenever they place their order for single strings I add to the order. I get a good price and they get a small but reliable profit.

The hard part for me now is that in addition to a few regular-sized dulcimers, I have two octave dulcimers, a baritone dulcimette, and on its way is a full-sized baritone.Even if you don't include a couple of guitars, a mandolin, a couple of ukuleles, and more, I need a certified accountant to keep track of my string needs. It's enough to drive you loonie.

Cheryl, the gauges you ended up with (12, 14, 24) are what I have come around to using on all my regular-sized dulcimers. Now that you are getting experienced enough to know what your preferences are, I suggest not buying strings in pre-packaged sets and buying them in bulk. You'll save in the long run, especially if you play more than one dulcimer on a regular basis.

Someday, Randy, when family, work, and money allow it, I hope to be one of those new friends you meet at Dulcimerville. Everyone seems to returnwith such wonderful stories of music and friendship.

Mandy, it's great to see how quickly this who thing has come together. It seems like just yesterday you were worried about how to tell someone he was out of tune.

Good luck, Mandy. Keep us posted about how it goes and how you deal with the out-of-tune mandolin.

Mandy, I play "Blackberry Blossom" with a few friends. One is a relative newbie on the banjo and can't play it as fast as the fiddle, mandolin, or me on the guitar (not that I'm a speed demon or anything). But we came up with a way to play the tune. We begin singing the words that Michelle Shocked wrote for the tune, which requires a slower pace. The banjo player takes her turn at that speed, and then when she's done we speed it up for the other instruments. You guys might consider a change in tempo like that as a way to let everyone get their chance.

That's great that you got things started, Mandy. Good job and congratulations!

Some folks are great musicians but less than discerning when it comes to tuning. When you start to play, you might simply stop and suggest that "someone" seems out of tune. Then pull out an electric tuner and ask everyone to double check. That way you are not pointing the finger directly at him but getting the point across that being in tune is important.

Mandy, you've gotten some great advice so far. Let me underline a few of them.

First, I would forget for the moment about a band. Don't even mention it. Just wait and see and if you find some musicians with whom you click, then you can get together with them. I know of one or two bluegrass bands in the San Francisco area that started asthe core group of a monthly jam and then split off to do their own thing.

You are correct that in bluegrass jams the center of the jam is people taking turns soloing. A premium is also put on speed. You really have to have your chops down to improvise in a bluegrass jam.

But in Old Timey jams no one solos per se. People play the song over and over again. One standard assumption is that to join a bluegrass jam you have to learn the songs beforehand, but you can actually learn them at an Old Timey jam, where the songs are generally played at a relaxed speed, formal solos are frowned upon, and everyone plays either backup or just plays the melody.

At most jams there is either a single leader who chooses the songs and sets the tempo, or people go around in more or less of a circle playing that role. Strumelia is probably right that it is often a fiddle player, but that is not always the case. I know Peter Tommerup leads an Old Timey jam as well as an Irish jam and--if I am not mistaken--a French music jam. He does so playing hammered dulcimer and mountain dulcimer. I've even been to a jam where a singer was the leader. He just new tons of lyrics (like 2/3of Rise Up Singing) and strummed chords on the guitar. He would begin and the rest of us accompanied him. Occasinally he would leave a verse open for a musical interlude and one or two brave souls would attempt a solo, but the stress was clearly on accompanying the vocalist.

Since you don't know what dynamic the jam will take, I would suggest you start to developa repertoir of standard tunes in the standard keys. Then you can get things started by suggesting a tune or two which you know well and which others probably know as well.Maybe you'll get lucky and some other folks will show up with their own repertoir, or maybe someone will show up who's an obvious jam leader and can point you all toward musical paradise.

Good luck. I hope it works out and you both geta regular jam going and also find some kindred musical spirits with whom you might start a band.

P.S. Strumelia's warning about many bluegrass tunes being under copyright is important to remember. But it will only be an issue if you record yourselves and post that recording somewhere, or if the jam is held in a commercial venue like a pub. It you are just friends getting together to play, you can play whatever you want. But if there is an audience, then owner of the venue will be responsible for copyright issues. Usually pub and restaurant owners who often have live music pay regular annual dues to ASCAP to cover themselves.

Ken has been a victim of body snatching. The soul of Shecky Green now inhabits his corpse.

Just remember, you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

Oh look at me; I'm fishin' for a joke and I'm flounderin'.

But every sole in heaven believes in cod.

Don't blame me; Ken started it.

I, too have a Seiko SAT 501. Yes, I like the "cents off" feature, too, and it does differentiate the exact pitch of notes spanning the entire 88 keys of the piano. I can't remember what I paid, but I think it was about $20.

Cheryl, I havea few small dulcimers, including a baritone dulcimette by Ron Ewing, an Eedy Beede by David Beede, and a Youngster by Keith Young. Since, as Kristi says, Keith Young has passed away, you could only obtain one of those if someone were selling one. The other two I highly recommend, but you might have trouble getting either of those luthiers to finish one in time for this summer. It would be worth contacting them to find out, though.

There are lots of good small dulcimers, though. As folkfan suggest, Mike Clemmer makes a "sweetie" that must be wonderful since you never see anyone selling them used. Folkcraft now has a re-issue of the Folkroots Travel dulcimer. Lots of people love the McSpadden Ginger model. If I were to buy one new now, I might trythe Blue Lion soprano, though I've never heard one or heard anything about it. I could go on. But I won't. Instead I'll point you to the group I started called Little Dulcimers and the list I created there called The Little Dulcimers Little List which I think is a pretty comprehensive list of the small dulcimers that are regular parts of luthiers offerings.

Linda, can you explain exactly what you are trying to convert?

If it is only the melody, there is a pretty easy method that is described by Linda Brockinton in the Music Theory group where you just number the notes according to scale position. If you are trying to convert chords, then you just need a chord chart to show you where to find the right chords on the dulcimer, and not conversion is needed.

If you are trying to convert an entire arrangement you may have difficulties, since a guitar is chromatic, meaning your dulcimer may not have all the notes needed, a guitar has greater tonal range than a dulcimer since the open strings span two octaves rather than one, and the guitar can play more notes at a time since there are six strings as opposed to the three on the dulcimer.

I'm sure it was your sweeter-than-blueberry-honey smile.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad things worked out for Rainbow.

Jeannie in Paradise said:

Maybe my nearly white hair and occasionally limping a bit helped, too!

Jeannie

It's just me and my elusive ways. I like to keep you guessing.

Actually, folkfan, there was an earlier comment that I deleted, but my most recent comment in this discussion just preceding your post is still there, as far as I can see.

folkfan said:

Dusty, Every time I try to read your reply, it disappears and never comes back. Weird

Just a couple of months ago, Congress passed a law on this issue, mandating that all airlines allow passengers to carry on any musical instrument that will fit in the overhead. Check out the New York Times article: http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/flying-with-instruments-gets-easier-for-musicians/

Of course it would still be a good idea to garner the support of the flight attendants, but you now have the law on your side.

I can't speak to the difficulties folkfan has using zither pins with arthritic hands. But in general I find that although zither pins are harder to tune than geared tuners, they stay in tune much better. Some folks who teach dulcimer to kids prefer zither pins because the kids can't mess with them and put their instruments out of tune.

On my autoharp (made by my uncle at Paw Print Autoharps) he uses not only zither pins but fine tuners similar to those on violins. I am surprised more dulcimers don't have fine tuners.

. . . you can name a dozen tunes recorded by Don Pedi and none by Justin Beiber.

. . .you have heard of a guy named Bing.

. . . you think of a guitar as a six-string chromatic dulcimer.

. . . food, clothing, and rent all come out of the general fund but you have a separate dulcimer budget.

. . . the word "spalted" comes up on a daily basis.

. . . the ring tone on your phone is just a D-A drone.

And the band played on . . .

Youmight be. . .when you name your kids "Old Joe" and "Cabbage."

You might be . . . when you insist that the church choir only sing in the key of D.

Youmight be . .. when renovating your home means just getting a new noter.

Youmight be . . . when you can't remember how old your kids are but you know you got that Keith Young teardrop on July 13, 1984.

Youmight be . . . when your clothes just lie in a heap on the floor but you have a spalted cherry cabinet with humidity control to store your dulcimers.

Youmight be . . . when you describe your tax refund as "a baritone with a galax back and maybe even ebony overlay."

There really is no end to this, is there?

Sam, I have a Snark SN2 (the red one)and was wondering how the SN8 is any different. Is it just the display or is the tuner actually more accurate?

Ken, first, are you sure you don't just need a new battery? My tuners get a little hinky when the battery gets low.

I have a Shark and love it. I have the red SN2, but I think there is a newer model out that is supposed to be even more accurate. The metronome feature is pretty useless, but I like that it can work either through the vibration of the instrument as a clip on or through a microphone if your instrument has no convenient place to clip the device. Search the web and you can find some for less than $15.

Paul, I assume you use fingerpicks when you fingerpick a 12-string guitar, correct?

One problem fingerpicking a mandolin is that the strings are so darn close together. The fretboard is more narrow than most soprano ukulele fretboards, for example. The right hand fingers would be really scrunched together. And the strings are really taught, much more so than guitar or ukulele strings (the latter of which are usually nylon as well).

I think it is theoretically possible to fingerpick a mandolin, but it would be pretty difficult in practice. A mandola might be more "doable."

Paul Certo said:

I don't play mandolin, but I finger pick everything else I play, even 12 string guitars, and my friends 8 string uke and 10 string tiple. Tiples have 4 courses tuned like a uke. Two courses are paired strings, and two are tripled strings. I don'r see a reason you couldn't fingerpick a mandolin, but I don't recall seeing anyone do it. Start a new trend.

Paul

Nathaniel, I don't know of anyone who fingerpicks the mandolin. Crosspicking is common, but fingerpicking, not. There are several physical impediments to fingerpicking the mandolin: the strings are really close together, the strings are reallytaught, and all the courses have double strings. If it could be done, it would be with metal fingerpicks. But I've never heard ofit.Every style of mandolin that I've heard of involves a flat pick.

Nathaniel Jared Smith said:

Does anyone Fingerpick the mandolin and if so what patterns do you use. I'm knew at the mandolin and I would like to learn a bluegrass style that enables fingerpicking that also brings out the melody more.

A guitar player, I took a detour for a few years and played the mandolin. But that was beforeI discovered the dulcimer. Now when I jam with friends I bring my guitar and a couple of dulcimers, but not usually the mandolin. The main issue with the mandolin, I think, is that it can be very loud, so you have to consciously play softly so as not to drown out the other musicians (don't worry about the fiddle and dobro players, though). I love the mandolin on fiddle tunes, of course, but I also just like to play chords and add short little filler runs every now and then. The rhythmic potential of the mandolin is great, although I can attain almost the same effect with my 6-string baritone dulcimette.

I assume you know the David Schnaufer/Butch Baldassari album Appalachian Mandolin & Dulcimer. If not, you have a big treat waiting for you . . .

Barbara, I was playing strictly in a flatpicking style but then bought a used Blue Lion from another member of FOTMD. I played it a little bit and really liked it, but one day I stroked the strings gently with my finger and the instrument just rang true. It sounds good with a flatpick, but really special with a soft fingerstyle technique. I began learning to fingerpick simply to do right by that instrument. And of course trying to fingerpick my six-string baritone dulcimette would be like fingerpicking a mandolin. Oh, maybe you could kinda sorta do it a little, but why?

Some instruments might really be versatile, but others so obviously want to be in a particular tuning or played with a certain technique that it's nice to honor those ideosyncracies. I gave up trying to play bluegrass guitar and mandolin with the accompanying obsession with playing lots of notes as fast as possible, and now my philosophy with the dulcimer is that if you have a nice sounding instrument, highlight that instrument. Pick or strum a little, let the notes ring out, and get out of the way.

Barbara P said:

Uh oh, Dusty Turtle, you're making me think that I need a designated fingerpicking dulcimer too! I sure love the way those Blue Lions look! (I see trouble ahead! LOL!) And a baritone - another type of dulcimer I sorely need!

Oh, and I don't even have a baritone dulcimer, so I need to add just one more . . .

Mandy, I know what you mean, and for that reason I have a guitar, a 12-string guitar, a mandolin, a ukulele, an autoharp, a fiddle, . . .

But, I now have several dulcimers and to me they are all different instruments. I have dulcimers in at least three tonal ranges, one a true octave dulcimer and another tuned a fourth of fifth above a standard dulcimer, the latter of which has six strings and is really good for fast-paced fiddle tunes in G or A. And even my standard dulcimers seem like different instruments. The Blue Lion is clearly intended for fingerpicking, not only because it just sounds great that way but also because the wider neck makes fingerpicking easier on the right hand.I use another dulcimer entirely for flatpicking, in part because it's neck is more narrow, but also because it has a 1-1/2 fret . . .

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Just because I have several instruments that are all called dulcimers, does not mean they are all identical. In fact, they are as different as a guitar and mandolin. And even among those of us without the disposable income to buy dulcimers just for fun, the differences among dulcimers become more obvious the more you play and you come to see them as genuinely different instruments intended for different tunings, styles of play, etc.

Mandy said:

Hey Barbara,

My take on this is a little different actually. I want one of everything! By that I mean lots of different instruments.

How many dulcimers does one need?

Easy: just one more!

Some time ago in Everything Dulcimer I started a discussion asking for all the variuos names used for what we call the mountain or Appalachian or lap dulcimer. Rather than search that discussion out and add a link, I've just attached a Word version of the final list. I thought you might find it fun.

Barbara, I am sure you could find numerous discussions here and even more at Everything Dulcimer in which people tell those with chromatic dulcimers that they should just play guitaror those with strumsticks that they aren't real dulcimers. Feelings can get hurt and I don't think that is anyone's intention. I do not speak for the dulcimer community.(In fact, a lot of people can even tell by my playing that I am really a guitar player who switched teams.) Some people within the dulcimer community are much more strict than others about what constitutes a dulcimer. It is that debate that I don't find very helpful.

To one person a dulcimer with a chromatic fretboard can still be a dulcimer, but to someone else, a dulcimer is a diatonic instrument played in a noter/drone style. I've always thought it arbitrary that some innovations (like geared tuning pegs) can be accepted and others (like extra frets) can't.

But I think most if not all of us would agree on what a traditional dulcimer looks like and how it was played. Let's start there. Then we can explore the variations that stem from that traditonal dulcimer withough worrying about specific classifications.

Barbara P said:

Thanks Dusty Turtle. That makes perfect sense to me now. The dulcimer community accepts all similar styles as dulcimers. I'm sorry, I didn't know that this might be a sensitive subject. I guess that's why I couldn't find my answer in the archives.

I've stayed away from this conversation because, as those who've taken part in such discussions before can attest, things can get a little testy. Can a dulcimer have "extra" frets? Can you play chords on it? Can you reverse the string order and hang it over your shoulder like a guitar? If I tune my guitar DGDGBD and lay it flat on my lap, is it a guitar or a dulcimer? If a cigar box is used as the sound box, does the fretboard become a neck? Can it still be a dulcimer then?

Rather than asking "what constitutes a dulcimer" which only encourages us to draw a sharpboundary between dulcimers and other similar hybrid instruments, let's askhow to define a traditional mountain dulcimer and traditional mountain dulcimer playing, and then explore what some of the variations of that instrument and those playing traditions are.

Even the analogy of waterfowl species doesn't quite hold up. A goose may not be a duck, but if you see an odd-looking waterfowl that appears to be half goose and half duck, what is it? We define a species as a a group of animals that can produce fertile offspring. There is a species of bullfrog on the east coast whose habitat ranges from Maine to Florida. At each step of the way, the bullfrogs can mate with those around them. But if you take one from Maine and one from Florida, they cannot mate. Or let's try another analogy. Take an ice cube and put it on the counter. It immediately starts to melt. On the outside, therefore, is water, and in the very center is ice. But where is the boundary between those two? As long as it feels wet, it is water, and you can never quite get to the ice because as you get there it begins to melt.

Sometimes there are no clear boundaries and rather than inventing them to make our classification system seem more rational, we should just accept that everything is in flux. Traditions evolve. Let's embrace the old, and the new, the long accepted and the avant guarde. If the music is sweet, it's all good.