Forum Activity for @dusty

I fixed the spelling in the title. And yes, John Stockard produced very elegant dulcimers with impeccable intonation.

Sometimes comments get embedded in forums on related topics.  Here was one place the video was posted , in a conversation on the popularity of the dulcimer.

There are a few other places around FOTMD where people discussed this video.  I am more impressed with Seyfried's singing than her dulcimer playing, but it's all pretty impressive.  And it's great to see the dulcimer get some mainstream attention.

Mike, I have one of the Hall brand pyrex glass noters that Amazon used to sell. Here is the listing explaining that it is no longer available: Hall dulcimer noter .  That is the exact model I have.  It was given to me when I bought my first dulcimer about 14 or 15 years ago.

It is well made and very pretty.  It produces a very bright tone and slides around like butter on a hot skillet, although my noter skills are pretty poor, so I can't do a good demo. I have trouble avoiding the fret wire.

I never use it.  If you pay for shipping plus make a $10 donation to FOTMD, it is yours.  Send me a personal message if you're interested.  I would package it up and get some estimates on shipping before you have to commit.

Hi @mdwannabe.  First, strings get stiff and stale just from exposure to air.  They also get grimy from being played, but strings age even if they are not played at all.  And wound strings age much faster than do plain steel strings.  So you might consider just changing your string.  Try that before anything else.

I am not sure what exactly you mean by "tinny."  Is there perhaps a buzz?  If you fret the string, does the "tinny" sound remain?  Try fretting at each fret and see if sound gets better.  If it is equally tinny up and down the fretboard, perhaps it is not sitting cleanly in the nut or bridge and a small adjustment might be necessary.

I'm sure one of the builders here at FOTMD will have better ideas than I do.

We did all embrace the word "international."  The reason it was even a discussion was because of my initial question, which stemmed from having learned of National Guitar Day (probably from a Sweetwater ad) and wondering whether we should have a National Dulcimer Day.  I don't recall any resistance to Robin's suggestion of "international."  It is both more inclusive and also appropriately celebratory regarding the dulcimer's spread beyond the hills and hollows of Appalachia.  (And I personally love the juxtaposition of "international" and "Appalachian.")

@nate, the discussion did indeed start on the Positive Thread, but my memory is that once we decided on a date and a name, I started this discussion here.

This year was year 4.  But remember that year 1 was not at the end of the year (like a birthday) but at the beginning. So one year in was year 2, etc.  Next year will be year 5.

Earlier in this thread I shared the image of a sticker I had made.  I just got some more, so if anyone wants a couple, send me a PM.  I also made the banner that Robin used to advertise the day here at FOTMD back when we had those banner ads. I'd be happy to offer those images for a DPN article if we want to go that route.

Here is the sticker:

And here is the banner:

It's good to chronicle this stuff for the historical record.  Thanks, @robin-thompson.  So next year will be the 5th year! Maybe we can plan something special for then.

At the heart of this day are the sentiments Robin shared a few posts back: "it's a grassroots celebration of the spread of the Appalachian dulcimer from the Appalachians to countries around the world.  And no one is in charge.  Any creative endeavor featuring mountain dulcimer is welcome for sharing."

Well, everybody, it appears our efforts to create International Appalachian Dulcimer Day has been a success, if we define success as the growing awareness of others of this special day to honor a special instrument.  People who know nothing about our efforts here are now referring to this day and it is becoming part of dulcimer lore.

The question before us now is whether we want the origin of IADD to remain "an unofficial holiday of obscure origin," much like the instrument itself, or whether we want to assert the role of FOTMD in creating the day.

One of us (I would volunteer) could easily write up a few sentences on the creation of IADD here at FOTMD and insert those lines into the Wikipedia entry on the mountain dulcimer.  The evidence (first in the Positive Thread and then here) is clear.

Should we assert our role as the originators or is it best to leave things "obscure"?

Thanks so much, John for that explanation.  Basically, you are defining purity of tone as a minimum of overtones.  That seems logical.

But it also raises a question which I asked earlier, which is how the mathematical definition of purity of tone corresponds to what we subjectively hear.  It certainly seems to our ears that the brighter sound of notes plucked closer to the bridge is more accurate or pure than the warmer sound of notes plucked closer to the center.

My question about fingers and pick was, well, kind of stupid honestly, since clearly those are variables you would want to hold constant if you did a physical experiment and something you would not choose to address in a theoretical simulation.

But there are real-world issues that muddy the cleanliness of your mathematical model.  In your first diagram of the inverted V, h represents the extent of the pluck, or how much the string is pulled before being plucked.  But there is a lot less tension on the string in the middle than there is on the ends.  To pull that string to the same extent by the bridge would result in a much more violent release, increasing the volume, certainly, but also, I assume, changing the nature of the string's vibrations.  I think you might need to add another factor--string tension--to this study and adjust h in that diagram to keep tension constant. Does that make sense?

If I understand you, @johnr, by "middle" you mean at half the string's length, or the octave (7th fret on a dulcimer, 12th fret on all those chromatic instruments).  We would normally say you get a "warmer" or "softer" tone there than you do towards the bridge, where the tone is usually described as "brighter."  So the warmer tone corresponds to what you describe as "purer" based on the sound waves.  By "purer" do you mean that there are fewer waves that bunch together to make a note?

How did you pluck or strum the string?  Whether you use a plectrum or bare fingers also affects the tone in ways that I assume you could measure.

@sam-edelston is a rock star, for sure! 

I like the title they give him on TV: "musician and dulcimer expert."  I want that on my business card.

Robin Thompson: It's IADD!  

https://youtu.be/bWp82g_V59o?si=EvOWqAbxDgE1YAUU

That's beautiful playing, Robin. Your sensitive approach to the noter is second to none.  Peace and goodwill to you, too.

Well I was able to make a video using Clipchamp for the first time, but YouTube only let me upload it as a short.  If it ain't one thing . . .

https://youtube.com/shorts/rKRztEXOx8E?feature=share

Happy IADD, everyone.  I tried to record a video last night using OBS studio, but the audio came out distorted.  I'll try again using different software a bit later.

However, I was the mystery guest at Pat Clark's Send in the Music today.  She will post the video soon, if it's not already up.  Today is also the 5th anniversary of Send in the Music, so lots to celebrate.  I was kind of nervous and my playing was pretty spotty, but here was my set: Reel de l'Oiseau Bleu, Cheticamp, Linstead Market, All in a Garden Green, Lady Gethin, Fishin' Blues, and an original, Safe Haven.

Congrats, John.  I was able to locate a summary and your bio, but Taylor & Francis won't let me see the whole text.  My library has a four-year delay for full-text articles of that particular journal. That's OK. I learned a little about you and can see from the summary that I really wouldn't understand the text anyway.  I may request it through Interlibrary Loan just to add to the dulcimer library.

How do you measure tone mathematically?  It seems like such a subjective quality.

If you judge by the number of new members joining FOTMD, the MD community is strong.

That's such a nice gesture on Glen's part, Jim. I love the vest!

Several years ago I lent a stranger a dulcimer at a dulcimer festival. The next year at that same festival he showed up with a limberjack for me. Or should I say limberjill .

That's hilarious, @nate.  It certainly demonstrates the limitations of information from AI.  On the one hand, it found your information here. On the other hand, it fails to recognize how unique your builds are, implying lots of "enthusiasts" are experimenting the way you do.

Neither of the two products I use occasionally--Howard Feed-N-Wax and Old English Lemon Oil--contain silicone.  I have to admit, though, that I didn't know that until I looked it up. Those products were recommended to me years ago and they both seem to work well.

Let's remember that the distinction between the lute family and the zither family is based on organology, which classifies instruments based on the way they make sound (technically its the Hornbostel-Sachs system). 

There are certainly other ways to classify them: how they are played, what they sound like, the purpose of the music (dance, worship), etc.  After all, in terms of organology, the piano and the organ are completely unrelated instruments, the former a string instrument and the latter a wind instrument.  But most of us see them as similar because they are played in a similar manner.  In terms of how you play the instrument, the mountain dulcimer is much closer to lutes than to zithers such as the hammered dulcimer.

We made it into the AI algorithms!  That constitutes success in my book, even if the information being spewed by the bots is factually incorrect.

I feel like Steve Martin in The Jerk when he saw his name in the phonebook:

Well OK, so lute might be the genus, but we still need a species name.  

It may not be a dulcimer, but it isn't a lute either.  A lute usually has 11 or more strings. I believe a Renaissance lute has 15 strings, and some courses are not fretted but only used for bass notes.  The instrument in the video is more like a diatonic ukulele than a diatonic lute. 

@ken-longfield is on the right track referring to it as what is often called a stick or walkabout dulcimer.  The odd thing about Seagull's Merlin is that it has a 6+ fret but no 6 fret.

I hope you know, @lilley-pad, that the filmmakers responsible for the Hearts of the Dulcimer documentary are FOTMD members @Patricia Delich and @Wayne Jiang .

And some of the folks responsible for the Santa Cruz dulcimer renaissance back in the day are still active, most notably Neal Hellman and Howard Rugg.  Neal organizes the Redwood Dulcimer Day festival every year (mid-August) and Howard has started making dulcimers again, resurrecting Capritaurus.

When I bought my Terry McCafferty dulcimer, he was offering 3 VSLs from which to choose: 25", 25.8", and 27", though I could be wrong on that last one.  The boxes are all identical, with the difference just being the length of the fingerboard and the placement of the saddle.  So his instruments would be good ones to choose from to gauge the difference VSL makes.

I am convinced that there is little-to-no difference in tone, although the differences in VSL in these cases are minimal.  

However, I believe the 25.8" has a bit more sustain than the 25", and the difference is less than an inch! (I opted for the 25" model anyway, just for the comfort of my chording hand.)

(If you visit Terry's website, click the "Cool Stuff" page. You might see someone you know playing a tune or two!)

Yeah, to actually measure the difference, we would need to hold all the other variables constant.  We would need the same builder to make identical instruments with the exception of the VSL.  Same box, same bracing, same wood types, same wood thickness, same amount of glue, etc.  And even then we would have to decide what string gauges to use.  Would you choose the gauges most appropriate for the longer VSL or the shorter?  Would you cut the difference in half to measure? Either way, you are not really hearing the way at least one of the dulcimers would normally sound.

I guess what I'm saying is that we could never measure this accurately.  But the good news is we'll be able to discuss it forever! 

Sustain.  I think longer VSLs have more sustain than shorter ones.

Remember that modern instruments often have much larger boxes than do traditional instruments, so some of the generalizations here may not accurately describe the difference between a traditional instrument with a long VSL and a modern instrument with a shorter one.

Just what we need to get the kids interested!

I have to admit I didn't expect such a strong voice from Amanda.

How could we ever forget? It's the best day of the year!

@overdrive, please note that your description of frets and scale positions only holds true if the open string is the tonic.  In traditional dulcimer playing, different tunings are used for different modes, and the tonic changes depending on the tuning.  So yes, in DAd (mixolydian) the tonic is the open string. But in DAA (ionian) the tonic is found at the 3rd fret.  In DAC (aeolian) the tonic is found at the 1st fret.  Basically, the pattern of whole and half steps in the scale or mode determines where on the fretboard you find the tonic.

I suspect that the 6+ fret was added so that you could get the two "major" sounding modes (ionian & mixolydian) out of a single tuning (1-5-8 or DAd).  I doubt people started tuning more in DAd than DAA simply because they wanted to play a small number of mixolydian tunes all the time.

And as people started playing chords and fretting across all the strings, DAd offers a greater melodic range (three notes worth!) out of a single chord position than does DAA.  Chording in DAA sounds more concise and coherent to my ear, but it requires a lot more hand movement to play in a basic chord/melody style.

Good advice so far.  I have always had good results with Howard Feed N Wax, especially with older wood that might have dried out a bit.

@john-petry, normally I would say that that would be a good question for the I Have Extra Frets Group , but I see that @jan-potts asked that question 13 years ago and no one answered.

In a DAd tuning, the Ab you get on the melody string at 3+ is the same note as the middle string at the 6+ fret, so I don't see a huge need for it.  Maybe you could play the B part of Ash Grove without having to go so high up the fretboard.  Then again, on a dulcimer without a 6+ fret, that could be the answer.  I use that 6+ on the middle string pretty often.  You need that note for an E major chord, after all.

@tonyg, I'm glad to hear of your discoveries on the instrument.  In traditional, modal dulcimer music, the tuning is dictated by the specific notes of the melody.  DAd gives you the lowered 7th note (found on the 6 fret), which does not exist in DAA (it would be on the 8+ fret).  So certain tunes such as Going to Boston or Old Joe Clark can only be played in DAd.

That lowered 7th note defines the mode as Mixolydian.  DAA, beginning on the 3rd fret, provides the major scale or Ionian mode, which has a regular 7th note on the 9th fret.

If you have a 6+ fret, you can play the major scale or Ionian mode in DAd, which is presumably why that extra fret became so popular.  And if you are fretting with your fingers and are comfortable moving to the middle string, then you can overcome the main limitation of playing trad tunes in DAd only on the melody string, which is that no notes are available below the open melody string (the root or tonic).

But the short answer to your question is that traditional players tune DAd whenever the melody requires that lowered seventh note.

Sad news.  For a few years Terry was very active here and always had encouraging comments for everyone.  There was true joy in his heart and respect for the humanity in all of us.  Plus, he wore a good hat.  RIP.

Hi @karen-b, I arranged Beech Spring specifically to teach those left-hand techniques.  You can find my arrangement here .

In general, I find slow airs and ballads to be well suited to those techniques.  For example, see my arrangement of Calon Lân .

Never heard of that tuning, but if the middle string is an octave above the bass string--which is indicated by the lower case "d"--it probably has to be plain steel.

Hey @lilley-pad, not everything is free, but . . . 

* On YouTube, you can just search for a tune, as in "Soldier's Joy backing track" and find some stuff.  And remember that you can slow down YouTube videos and the pitch will stay the same.

* I have learned a lot of songs from https://www.mandolessons.com/ .   For some of the tunes, there is a true backing track and for others he just plays the tune on the mandolin and then plays the chords while you are supposed to take the lead.

* Bing Futch has a series called "Mountain Dulcimer in the Band" that has backing tracks for all sorts of trad tunes.  I'm not sure what the prices are if you want to buy individual issues, but you can subscribe to him on Patreon for as little as $5 a month and get access to it all.  Then you can always cancel after a month if it's not what you're looking for.

* Years ago during my misguided effort to learn bluegrass mandolin, I purchased a product from Homespun Music called Steve Kaufman's Four-Hour Bluegrass Workout. It has both super slow and seriously up-to-speed versions of traditional bluegrass tunes, most of which are part of the old timey and folk traditions as well.  For each version, he takes the lead for the first verse and then the next two verses just have the backing tracks so you can practice.  I think there is a second series that has come out more recently, too, offering even more tunes.  But beware: As with the mandolessons site, the tunes are shared in the most common key in bluegrass jams, so while some (St. Anne's Reel, Soldier's Joy) will likely be in the key of D, others will be in C, G, or A or one of the relative minors.

Good luck searching!

@randy-adams, I'm in the @Nate fan club myself, but neither you nor I are as cute as those Swifties who will be joining us once Taylor plays a jell-o mold dulcimer in a Super Bowl ad.

Your comment about the number of professional dulcimer players in interesting.  How many professionals were there in the mid-1960s?  I have no idea.  But I bet there are more now. The internet has allowed folk musicians to reach a much larger market than would have been possible before.

At least here in California, John, the majority of people who picked up the dulcimer in the early 70s did so because of Joni Mitchell and Richard Fariña.  There was no pre-existing dulcimer tradition out here until people heard those two pop stars.  And many of those people are still around, playing and teaching others.

When I got my first dulcimer I was employed teaching beginning guitar to some middle- and high-school students.  I brought my dulcimer in to show them my new toy, and they all got excited because they had just seen Cyndi Lauper play one on TV the night before. But by then, Lauper was old news.  When she had her hits back in the 1980s, she never appeared with a dulcimer (nor any instrument, for that matter).  Had she done so, perhaps I would have discovered the dulcimer decades earlier than I did.