Forum Activity for @nate

Dulcimer History and Tradition

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I find that a lot of people, especially younger people, are not aware of the dulcimer existing. For many, the idea of an "old time" instrument is automatically romanticized, and people are very interested in the history of the instrument. I only know a decent little bit about dulcimer history, most of which I've learned on this forum, so I'm not in a position to explain all the nuances of everything, but I have definitely encountered a lot of people with a lot of curiosity about the dulcimer, where it came from, and why it looks and sounds the way it does. As far as players, I have noticed that nearly everyone who gets interested in the dulcimer ends up finding the history really interesting. 
I'm not sure if that's because people in general would like to have more connection to the history and culture of the musical instruments they play, or because people who find history interesting are more likely to get interested in dulcimer.

Solid body electric dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Jamie, that makes a lot of sense to me. Electric instruments can be much more responsive, which can make subtle differences in play more noticeable.

I have a hard time believing that wood actually affects tone at all, or if it does, only in a very very subtle way. It seems to me that electric guitar companies put that narrative forward in order to charge extra for 'tonewoods' and people who buy electric guitars made of expensive woods tend to want to believe it, so they perpetuate the narrative. 

I definitely believe that if someone believes their electric guitar sounds good, they will play it better. So much of the subtleties of tone come from the player and if you feel good, you play good.

I think that comes from the player, not the instrument itself. I'm not trying to come off as pretentious or a know-it-all. The physics of how a magnetic pickup creates a signal makes me very skeptical of the idea that its possible for the body of the instrument to affect the tone, and I havent found any serious scientific sources that suggest it does.

Id chalk what you are describing up to the players themselves and not the instrument.

Solid body electric dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

On an electric string instrument, none of the characteristics of the instrument itself are present in the tone. The two factors are style/number/position of pickups and fret intonation. Everything else is determined by the synthesizer/amp, which is where pedals become a useful enhancement. One benefit to solid body electric is that because the instrument doesn't need to be resonant, it can be built with very low action, which allows for techniques that are more difficult on an acoustic dulcimer.
I look forward to hearing this instrument, thanks for sharing
Nate

How are you dealing with the HEAT WAVES?

OFF TOPIC discussions

My cats are staying nice and cool thanks to the ac units, while I'm stuck outside working and relying on good old latent heat of vaporization to cool myself. But thats what humans are meant to do...sweat and stay moving. Cooling towels, shade hats, plus light colored, breathable, and wicking clothes have helped through the 100+ degree days.

My plants on the other hand are getting absolutely fried :(

String-changing adventure on scroll head

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This diagram might help you to visualize how to wrap the string around the peg to keep it from slipping. Also, I like to give the string a couple of inches of slack to wind up once I have the string locked, so there is less stress on the area where the string is kinked.

I have never heard of having the string run under the proximal tuning posts on a dulcimer like yours, because as you mentioned, we don't want the strings rubbing on the other tuners, or any of the separate strings to be touching each other. I would recommend you not run any strings under any pegs. 

updated by @nate: 05/29/26 02:33:29PM

Bad string?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

It may be also helpful to see if the other strings increase in tension when the 3rd string detunes. 

When the string slips, some of the tension it had stored in the wood is transferred to the other strings, and they become sharper. Also if the instrument is bowing under the tension, you may notice that tuning up the string that doesn't stay in tune causes the other strings to go flat.

6 String Baritone Dulcimers

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have made some six string dulcimers that have three courses of two strings each, and I personally am not a huge fan, especially for chord playing. To me, the sound is cluttered and it's also harder to fret.

Changing from pegs to machine tuners

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I often suspect that the masters of old might be a little surprised to know that we buy special drill bits and pencil sharpeners to make a nicer facsimile of what they had to settle for out of necessity. I wonder if I showed Uncle Ed a piece of nickel fret wire, then told him that lots of us enjoy using staple style frets even though we have easy and cheap access to fretwire, if he'd be confused.

At the same time no matter how many modern tools and conveniences we have, I'm still drawn to simpler methods, because I love that the dulcimer is so versatile and adaptable to whatever level of skill and materials the builder may choose.

I suspect Strativari, if given modern tools would use cymatics, microscopes, carbon fiber, low gear ratio tuners, CNC, lasers, and everything else the modern world can afford him to make instruments more precise to his goals

updated by @nate: 04/17/26 04:43:19PM

Changing from pegs to machine tuners

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

My thought is that, it would be nice to save the original pegs in case they ever want to reinstall them in the future, but most people probably wouldn't have any desire to do that.
I'm not a big fan of wooden pegs, but I can't deny that they look a lot better. Maybe if you used those giant cello type pegs, it would be easier on the wrists and still look nice.
I say just switch to machine tuners unless maybe it's a really pretty one.

Fretboard Cleaner & Conditioner

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

In my opinion, mineral oil is good. I also like mineral oil with orange oil, and from what I understand, lemon oil is usually mineral oil with a bit of lemon oil in it.
I like to take mineral oil on a rag and just dab the tip of the rag in the mineral oil, then vigorously rub it into the fretboard, wipe away any excess, and let it saturate then dry. It will dissolve all the grime and replenish the moisture of the wood. I can't imagine the brand of rag or mineral oil makes a big difference. I would just get a bottle of mineral oil, personally.
 
If the rag is meant to polish the frets, I recommend a "fret eraser" which is a soft abrasive pad that easily polishes the frets. 

The use of hammer-on, pull-off and slide.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Sliding between frets is one of my favorite things about playing the dulcimer. I like to use the side of my thumbnail for long slides up and down the melody string.

Possum Board

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

When I build one with a double back, I usually only give it about 1/8th of an inch gap. 
I suspect that the size of the gap would have a subtle impact on how the sound waves interact with eachother. To some extent, the space between the bottom of the instrument and the possum board or false bottom could be considered a separate "soundbox" that will produce some amount of resonance on it's own, and most likely affects the tone in a small way. It may be useful to set your dulcimer on a couple of chunks of wood that are sitting on a board as a simulated "possum board" and see if you notice a difference in tone at different heights.
I personally have noticed that when the instrument is closer to the board, it affects the high end of the instrument tone and can make the sound more "nasally" whereas a larger distance between the dulcimer and possum board has less of this effect.

the bridge “saddle”

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I change both string gauge and string layout pretty often on my dulcimers, and I prefer floating bridges for how adaptable they are.
As Dusty mentioned, when a bridge is fixed into place, it is intonated for specific string gauges, and if you use different gauges, the string will be slightly imprecise in it's intonation. 
In my opinion, when someone understands how to adjust their floating bridge based on the string gauge, they have a lot more freedom to use different strings, and therefore different tunings, while still sounding harmonious.
Also, if the bridge isn't fixed into place, it's easier to swap out different bridges for different string arrangements.

equal intonation versus just intonation

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ken that's a great visual reference, thanks.

Extended Range Dulcimer

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Talking about bones and harmonica, I thought you might enjoy this performance by Willi Carlisle, if you haven't seen it before.

Extended Range Dulcimer

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It sounds great. Am I understanding you correctly that the dulcimer has 4 strings tuned D2 D3 A3 D4? I do like adding strings to the low end of my dulcimers and recently have been having a lot of fun with D2 A2 D3 A3 D4, but on a 4 string dulcimer I much prefer A2 D3 A3 D4 compared to D2 D3 A3 D4. In other words, ADAd instead of DDAd. The drones provide a nice sound, and when I'm chording, I can just fret the A2 string the same way I fret the A3 string for some really pretty chords.

Extended Range Dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Whoops, I did notice that they were bones and still typed spoons for some reason lol. Similar, but still quite different. Either way, sounds like a cool group, as most lovers of folk music and instruments tend to be.

Extended Range Dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Looks like a lot of fun. I see that you are playing harmonica and spoons at the same time, which is no small feat, and the result is great.
Cool to see so many people coming together and playing different instruments in the second and third clip. Seems like a great time.

updated by @nate: 10/08/25 03:02:12AM

Extended Range Dulcimer

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Skip, in his original post he said "I wish it were a tad longer so that I could get the best of DAA and DAD tuning, allowing me to walk down the fretboard on the melody string alone." Which i assume means that he wants notes below A to be available on the melody string.

@Barnjam you might consider trying to tune your instrument D3A3D3, (you will need to put a bass string where you would normally put a melody string) such that the melody string is the same pitch as the bass string, which would allow you to have a range of D3 to D5 on the melody string, assuming 2 octaves of frets. This would allow you to play "melodies on the bass string" using the first octave of frets on the melody string, and the second octave of frets will correspond to the notes you would normally get on the melody string. It may be the easiest solution, if you like the feel of it, and that gives you the notes you want.

Extended Range Dulcimer

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It means you asked a good question that hits on interesting ideas. :)

It may be helpful to know: what exactly is the range of notes that you would like to have access to on your melody string? 

Extended Range Dulcimer

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I agree completely. For me personally, I think a fretboard should be at least as wide as my pointer, middle, and ring finger's combined width. Anything less and I don't have enough room for chording all three strings across the same fret. Of course that is because I play chording style, and isn't necessarily useful to BarnJam.

Extended Range Dulcimer

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In the past when I built a similar dulcimer I found two serious constraints. One is that the fret placement has to be perfect because even the tiniest most subtle imprecision makes a huge difference. The other is that the frets become impossibly close together. Even on a 34" dulcimer, the 19-21 frets will only be about 1/4 of an inch apart. For someone like me who uses jumbo fretwire, the frets crowns would need to overlap. It would requireusing small fretwire and being very very precise with your fingertips.
But as you said, it is possible, lol.

Extended Range Dulcimer

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That's a good point. In general I've found that low gauge strings tend to have tighter constraints on how high the tension can go, but 13lb seems like it would be manageable. Most of the stuff I've read online says that all string gauges can be brought to a similar tension before breaking if they are made of the same material, but I'm skeptical of that. Eventually I'll have to find out for myself next time i go to the string store.

Extended Range Dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
The way I interpreted the original question is that he was asking about extending the range of frets in a way that adds extra low notes at the nut end while maintaining diatonic frets for the key of D. Like tuning the instrument DAE and having a fret layout that still contains all the notes of the D major scale starting on E. It's an interesting idea and I've seen a couple of old dulcimers that seemed to be doing something similar, and I might have to try it eventually just for the novelty.

Extended Range Dulcimer

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Strumelia could you please elaborate on that?

The "stringjoy string tension calculator" says that a 35" VSL tuned to D4 with a 0.007 gauge string (lowest Ive seen in an ernie ball pack) will have ~13 lb of tension. 

Extended Range Dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I think an important question is: do you prefer to only play on the melody string, or would you prefer to be able to fret all three strings?
If you're only fretting the melody string out of compromise, then a wider fretboard could solve your problem.

A dulcimer does not have all the frets of the chromatic scale, which is why the major scale must start on either the open string for DAd (1-5-8) or the 3rd fret for DAA (1-5-5) if you want to have all the notes in the major scale. For this reason, if you wanted to tune the melody string lower than A and still get all the notes of the D major scale, you would have to add extra frets. For example, if you tuned the instrument DAG, there would be no fret for C#, unless you add a 3.5 fret. You could potentially set the fret layout to allow your melody string to be tuned to any note, though it would look strange for some. Or with a chromatic instrument, you could just tune it any old way and always have all the needed frets for your D major scale.

It's possible to tune the melody string lower and add extra frets, but could lead to it's own problems, like if you wanted to play melody on the bass string, your melody string would no longer be a harmonious drone to accompany it.

I see that the dulcimer you showed a photo of has two full octaves of frets plus 3 frets of the third octave. If you have large fingers, it will definitely be difficult to try to fret in those teeny tiny spaces, and if you add more frets to the high end, the gaps between them only get smaller.

The longer the VSL, the more space you'll have between frets in that third octave, but that can only help so much.

updated by @nate: 10/06/25 01:35:04PM

A question about intonating a dulcimer

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Does this apply to a string spacer and a zero fret?


Mike, the nice thing about cutting the slots in the string spacer is that it's nearly impossible to cut them too deep, the only issue could be if you cut them too wide. I would definitely do that before anything else, since it's the most likely issue and also the easiest to fix. Put a couple layers of painters tape over the wood before you start filing, to avoid any accidental damage to the wood.
I am guessing that string spacer was added after the fact by someone who believed they were replacing a nut. I saw a few photos online of other dulcimers from the same company, and their string spacers look pretty different than this one. As others have mentioned, the "zero fret" acts as the nut, and that piece of plastic should just serve to keep the strings the correct distance apart, which is why you should be careful not to make the slots any wider, since that could affect the distance between the strings.
updated by @nate: 09/29/25 03:32:33PM

A question about intonating a dulcimer

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I'm glad you spotted that Skip,
with that in mind, the dime is not needed and only the nickel is necessary, as Ken said. Apologies for the confusion.

A question about intonating a dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

There are three main factors to consider when intonating a dulcimer, the height of the nut, the height of the bridge, and the position of the bridge. 

There is a simple system for intonating a dulcimer which is called the "nickel and dime method" where a dime is placed on the fingerboard just above the first fret so that the side of the dime is touching the nut-facing side of the first fret, so the dime is between the first fret and the nut. A nickel is placed on top of the 7th fret and is between the 7th fret and the string. 

Generally, the nut and bridge should be lowered until the string is just barely touching the face of both of the dime and the nickel.

If your fret wire is taller than average, the dime may not be useful, since the fretwire may be taller than the dime. If that's the case, it may be a little bit more complicated. Using a dime only works for short fret wire, such as a mandolin or ukulele fret wire, and if the instrument has guitar or jumbo fret wire, then determining correct intonation at the nut might be more difficult. 

If you set the string height or "action" using this method and all goes well, but your instrument is still not well intonated, then you may need to adjust the position of the bridge itself.

To do this, tune the string up to the desired note, and then using a tuner check the intonation at the octave fret. 

If the octave fret is sharper than the root note, then the bridge needs to be moved closer toward the nut. If the octave fret is flatter than the root note, then the bridge needs to be moved further away from the nut. 

I hope this helps

Nate

updated by @nate: 09/27/25 08:04:05PM

jubilee

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Very interesting. I have seen them a handful to times at Hindu weddings, where the playstyle is QUITE different, and is much more energetic and rhythmic, but it works surprisingly well as a drone accompaniment as well. Makes sense since you don't actually have to control the speed or force of the bellows at all, so you just flip a switch to the chord you want and don't have to worry about feel or rhythm. Pretty clever.

More or less overtones

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Straight forward, yet ambiguous. Does a presence of many overtones make an instrument sound

More "clear" or "full"

More "nasal" or "broad"

More "refined" or "ambiguous"

More "bright" or "warm"

All the words convey opposite meanings, but "overtones" are used to describe both.

On the dulcimer, what does the term "overtone" say about the tone?

updated by @nate: 09/18/25 05:41:08PM

David Lynch Baritone

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

If the bridge is being held in place by string pressure, rather than being glued down or in a slot, then intonation could be almost completely fixed by simply sliding the bridge about 1/16" to 1/8" closer to the nut. 

If the bridge is fixed in place, then I would agree that it's not worth messing with.

If you are interested in making the simple adjustment to the bridge Id be happy to explain further or give more specific advice based on your VSL and string gauge, but really just scooting it about 1/16th of an inch closer to the nut should mitigate any intonation issues.

I agree with Dusty, though, that it may sound just fine as it is, and there is no harm in putting lighter strings on the instrument to find out.

Either way, its fun to have different dulcimers with different ranges, so whether you leave it or change it, you cant go wrong. :)

updated by @nate: 09/09/25 03:09:44PM

David Lynch Baritone

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Hello Karen. Changing to lower gauge strings will affect the intonation. This could potentially require the saddle to be adjusted by more than 1/8" to compensate.
Is the bridge fixed into place, or can it be adjusted?
If not, the instrument will still be playable with lower gauge strings, but it will be slightly out of tune.

Wedge shaped floating bridge

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I would suspect that the taller end goes under the bass string as well, for the reason Wally mentioned.  A lot of times, I've found that the bass string has more wobble, and buzzes against the frets more easily, so I avoid the problem by setting it just a smidge higher and adjusting the bridge placement accordingly.

How to tune a 22 vsl mountain dulcimer

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Your current set up has about 19-23 lb of tension per string. Strings that would give you a similar amount of tension at 22" would be ~0.030, ~ 0.019, and ~0.014.

practicing app

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

Very cool looks super easy to use ill definitely check that out later. Thanks for showing this

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Welcome Paul! 

The photos you have shared are super cool and i look forward to your input. 

How long have you been building instruments? The work you did looks terrific.

I have always loved fossils. My grandfather owned some land with a lot of slate and shale, and i used to have a lot of fun cracking them open.

Hope to see more creations,

Nate

updated by @nate: 08/20/25 06:00:37PM

New to the group, several questions

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

 
Just to clarify, there should easily be over 1200 tuning combinations where each string has a higher pitch tone than the next lowest string. If we assume a standard 4 string tuning like ADad, and that each note could be down tuned by three steps, or uptuned by two, that still leaves 6 individual notes that each string could be tuned to. For an A string, this could be F#, G, G#, A, A#, or B. For a D string this could be B, C, C#, D, D#, or E. 
So since 6 individual notes are available per string, 6x6x6x6=1296 tuning schemes. Of course, there are way more than 6 half steps available for string, making the number much higher than 1200, not lower. In fact, Eb, D, F#, A is not in the 1200 that I mentioned, just based off the starting point of ADAd and only 6 steps of freedom.
updated by @nate: 08/18/25 05:45:03AM

"Extra" frets and JI vs ET

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 A 6.5 is pretty much essential for Dad and other 1-5-8 tunings, but not needed for DAA tuning, and other 1-5-5 tunings.
In Dad tuning, the 6.5 fret corresponds to the note C#, which is an important part of the D major scale. If you're going to get a 6.5, I'd say a 13.5 is also good.
A 1.5 can also be nice, but anything more than that, I would recommend holding off until you actually have a reason to want them.

The question about temperament is pretty complicated, so this answer will be over simplified. The majority of dulcimers with a 6.5 fret are equal temperament, unless they specifically say otherwise. The goal of ET is to make compromises so that none of the intervals between notes are particularly dissonant in any key. It's basically just taking all the intervals and averaging them out to get tones that are generally inoffensive in any key. When a builder chooses a temperament other than ET, the goal is to give certain specific intervals extra harmony at the sacrifice of other intervals. Usually, this means placing the frets in such a way that is optimized for one specific key. This can lead to dissonance when chording and especially when using a capo. However, temperaments like just intonation and meantone sound GREAT in melody drone style.

Playing A Longer VSL

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

I don't think the difference between 24 and 26.5 is that huge. Long stretches like a 1-2-4 chord might be about 1/2 inch further. I would say that hand stretching exercises may be a good way to overcome that extra little bit of reach you'll need.
Personally, I prefer shorter VSL instruments for chording, but when I do play longer dulcimers, it doesn't take too long for my hands to get used to reaching just a little bit further.