Really well said John.
I commend and thank you for contributing to the scientific understanding of string physics. The words may be subjective, but this thread has compelled me to try to understand the "objective" side of tone a little more.
This topic has got me doing a lot of research and really appreciating how far beyond me most of this stuff is to try to wrap my head around. After a few hours playing around in an audio spectrum visualizer, Im really starting to appreciate just how unreliable my ear is.
Such fascinating stuff
I think overtones are associated with our perception of depth. An example of an instrument with almost no overtones is a tuning fork, and an example of an instrument with many pronounced overtones is a cello.
I also think what Dusty mentioned about the string being floppier near the middle may be the main reason that the tone is so different near the middle of the string. I have noticed that the actual pitch of the string wobbles a lot more when I pluck near the middle. Though very unscientific, I just plucked my string as hard as I could right at the bridge and noted that the frequency wobbled in a range of 1 cent. I plucked as hard as I could at the middle of the string and found that it wobbled in a range of about 4 cents. Since the actual string is producing a larger range of frequencies when plucked at the middle, this might be another factor for why the tone is "warmer" near the midpoint of the string.
I've been wondering a lot about this stuff for a while. I think today is the day I make string striking pendulum and start experimenting!
Thank you for taking the time to explain John. I have to admit, I find the results counterintuitive. If a "purer" tone means less overtones, and an instrument like a flute is an example of a very pure tone with few overtones, it seems to me that I get a "purer" tone while plucking near the end of the string than I do close to the middle.
I've heard it said that the closer to the midpoint, the more freely the string can excite overtone frequencies. The way it was explained to me is that when the string is divided into two lengths on either side of your plectrum, whichever length is shorter will limit the overtones of the longer one, and therefore the greater the difference between the two lengths, the more the fundamental is emphasized, whereas the closer the two lengths are to equal, the more overtones are emphasized.
Doubling the octave (7th fret) is a good way to estimate where to start from, but on an instrument that small he will need a lot more fine adjustment to the bridge beyond that.
While I agree with your sentiment of not overthinking it, Matt, a micro dulcimer does warrant extra consideration.
We don't even know his VSL or what he considers "standard" so surely some complication is required.
Indeed it is Robin! I just got my first three aquavina dulcimers back! At various times I have given them away to people, but today, after offering various people newer and better dulcimers in exchange to get the old ones back, I now have the prototype, the beta test, and the alpha test, and im looking forward making a quick video of the three!
How do you measure tone mathematically? It seems like such a subjective quality.
Congratulations, that's awesome. Since I likely wouldn't be able to interpret the paper even if I could access it,(math and I are like nodes and anti nodes
) are there any insights you could share about the ideal place to strum, based on your findings?
1) If you were to use normal strings, you would want to tune them higher than normal. If you were to tune the strings normally on an instrument that is too short, the strings won't have enough tension, resulting in a floppy feel and a weaker sound. A common tuning for short scale dulcimers using normal strings is to tune up from D to G. This would be Gdd or Gdg, rather than Daa or Dad, but you may need to tune it even higher.
2) if you want to play in standard tuning, you will need strings of a heavier gauge than normal.
3) This is a bit more complicated of a topic that may require more nuanced explanation, but this is the process that I personally use:
First, measure the distance between the nut and the 7th fret. The VSL is exactly double that distance, before adjusting for intonation. Make a temporary mark at this distance for your "estimated" bridge placement.
Next you will need to cut your bridge to the correct height. The correct height can be determined using the "nickel and dime" method, which is explained in other threads on this website.
String up the instrument, place the bridge at the 'estimated' correct distance, and tune up the strings. Tune the string up until it is perfectly in tune with the target note, then pluck the string at the 7th fret and note whether the "octave note" is sharp or flat. If the octave note is flat when the root note is perfectly in tune, the bridge needs to be moved slightly closer to the nut. If the octave note is sharp when the root note is perfectly in tune, the bridge needs to be moved slightly farther from the nut.
Detune the strings, adjust the bridge slightly, then tune back up and check again. When all three strings are perfectly in tune at the root note, and perfectly in tune at the octave fret (or as close as you can reasonably get it) the bridge is now in it's correct placement.
I like this bridge design, and the type of sound they seem to produce. A bit less nasally than a bridge sitting on the fingerboard, and less round than a bridge on the soundboard. I've built a couple bridges like this, and I just wish I saw this one beforehand, because it would have saved me some time on the drawing board lol.
The nut and headstock are also very cool.
I fully agree @dusty . I couldn't help but laugh at the idea of an AI bot reading MY post and then giving me misleading information about my own instrument
Dusty, I've heard a lot of good feedback about Feed-N-Wax. I asked because I happened to already have this can of furniture polish, and was hoping to find a use for it. I have used it a few times on my dulcimers, and the orange oil does a good job at keeping the wood vitalized, for lack of a better word.
Tung oil works well when applied really thin on fingerboards. I go to great pains to keep all things silicone away from my work benches. If in doubt rub any suspicious wood surface with acetone. There are many fine paste waxes that are silicone free...Robert
We made it into the AI algorithms! That constitutes success in my book, even if the information being spewed by the bots is factually incorrect.
Thank you very much Ken for this comprehensive answer. The Horstobel Sachs system has always been hard for me to wrap my head around, but what you typed is super easy to grasp. Would any discontinuous fretboard then be considered a lute?
It's hard to differentiate the concept of a dulcimer from its fretboard and string layout. A three course instrument with a paired melody course and two accompanying courses in the same key is such a powerful concept that it gets applied to all kinds of different resonators.
On the topic of lutes and zithers, I am wondering how this system reconciles something like a discontinuous fingerboard which terminates before the bridge, or a dulcimer with a fingerboard that extends beyond the box. Is the following photo a lute or zither?
Unfortunately, since I live in Southern Oregon, my local library has been ruined by the anti homeless measures, and will probably never recover. Most of the libraries in my area have been totally stripped of funding and local support in order to make the area more hostile to homeless people.
Northern California has a terrific dulcimer community, with plentiful old hippies who love the instrument. I especially loved the section on "counterculture."
Hello world!
I’m Gareth, living just outside Edinburgh here in Scotland. I’ve played mandolin off/on for around 20 years (doesn’t make me good though!) and I drifted toward the Seagull Merlin family of instruments having noted them in a local music shop, along with mountain dulcimers. Exposure to traditional folk from the US got me interested in the dulcimer.
Presently I have two mandolins, a ‘project’ bouzouki and a Merlin which I bought gently used a few weeks ago. I’m finding the relative freedom of the Merlin to be really amazing and drawn to pick it up whenever I can. Usually while dinner is cooking or between meetings at work (when I’m working at home).
In the past I’ve played in a few groups with friends, then as part of a mandolin and guitar orchestra, but now mainly music-making is for my own amusement and general sanity.
Dulcimore Dan is an I.D. Stamper fan! I.D. used those long, jangly, low-pitched strings on his dulcimers.
Wow there are some pretty skilled musicians showcasing those instruments
I think that any effort to directly compare different VSLs would be a compromise of all kinds of other features that probably affect tone far more than VSL. While the original question specifically asked about scale length, there is also the broader question of how tone, volume, and sustain are affected by a physically larger instrument. I think in general dulcimers with long VSLs tend to often have larger soundboards, are often taller, are often sturdier and can handle more tension, and are often tuned lower. The many other factors that come along with a long VSL can affect the tone more than the VSL itself.
Yeah, to actually measure the difference, we would need to hold all the other variables constant. We would need the same builder to make identical instruments with the exception of the VSL. Same box, same bracing, same wood types, same wood thickness, same amount of glue, etc. And even then we would have to decide what string gauges to use. Would you choose the gauges most appropriate for the longer VSL or the shorter? Would you cut the difference in half to measure? Either way, you are not really hearing the way at least one of the dulcimers would normally sound.
Adding to what Dusty said, tone can also be greatly effected by the wood thickness... not simply by the size of the sound box and its scale length.
Does a longer instrument simply have more tension because the players choose to use higher tension strings?
When I string up longer dulcimers, I use smaller gauge strings or lower pitch tunings to compensate. Similarly, when I string up shorter dulcimer, I use thicker strings or higher tunings to compensate. I prefer the tactile experience of having thinner strings, and I also notice a difference in sustain with longer strings, even when they are not at a higher tension.
One thing to note is that a longer scale length/VSL usually means a physically larger instrument, which can affect tone and volume.
This is just an observation and I might be wrong about this, but to me, when tuned to the same note with the same tension, thinner longer strings seem to have a fuller tone than thicker, shorter strings.
I am not a traditional player and my dulcimers all have a 6.5 fret, but I definitely enjoy playing melody drone with a noter or my thumb in Dad. If I didn't have a 6.5 fret, well it might be fun to mess around with but definitely wouldn't be the same.
Hey now Dusty, the Nate fanclub may be small, but it has a quality few members. xD
It's a very true point though. Popular artists of the 70s played a huge role in the re-emergence of the instrument. Joni Mitchell, Emmylou Harris, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, etc. Often when you look at the comment section of tracks from that era that included dulcimer you will see people talking about how the sound stood out to them.
In modern times, Harry Styles, who was a member of the popular boy band One Direction, had a song that heavily featured the dulcimer and while his audience probably didnt notice, as a dulcimer player I definitely did.
While I totally agree with you Wally, I think that dulcimer has recently rediscovered it's place as an instrument that is great for amateur builders to make for themselves. I have personally taught a bunch of people to build dulcimers. With modern tools and hardware, it's easier than ever for people to make their own dulcimers, and for people who like to build instruments, dulcimers and strumsticks are a common project.
Personally, I mainly built cigar box guitars before learning about dulcimers, and I have preferred making dulcimers since.
I think that the lack of commercial viability is also an indication of the durability or dulcimers, and the care given to them. There are probably more dulcimers out there than dulcimer players, so making new ones is best left to folks who make exceptional instruments, like many of the fine luthiers on this site. 
Certainly not my interest! I really want to know what folks who have been playing for decades think about this.
I am a young person and have not played for very long so this observation is limited. From my conversations with others, it seems that the instrument has been on a slow and steady decline since the folk revival. I think the instrument has incredible potential for a come back, but at the moment I would say that the popularity sadly seems to be on decline.
Hello Art. The nickel should be on top of the 7th fret and the dime should be sitting on the fretboard in the space between the nut and the first fret, flush against the first fret. Here are a couple of photos.
If the string is too high at the dime, you may need to make the nut slightly less tall by removing it and sanding a tiny bit off the bottom. If the string is too high at the nickel, you may need to sand a little off the bridge. Always go slow, and keep in mind that its a lot easier to take too much off than it is to put material back.
An important thing to note is that the dime will not be a useful reference if your instrument has jumbo fretwire, because the frets will be taller than the dime.
Well i hope that character uploads again, because it was very cool ambient dulcimer music.
Interestingly Jim, leaving the clip on tuner on the instrument has become a symbol of proud naivete in some genres. The idea that a player needs regular access to a tuner is meant to be an indicator that they are very versatile, but not classically trained. Its a funny signal of authenticity that i see a lot in genres like folk punk.
There is one guy @glowhazel that used to upload really neat ambient stuff. Sadly i dont think hes posted anything recently.
Hello Jon. In my opinion, even when playing with louder instruments the dulcimer still fits nicely into the blend and adds a lot to the overall sound. Assuming you can't use any kind of amplification and are wanting the sound of the dulcimer to stand out, it helps to consider where all the players are relative to eachother and make sure that the quieter instruments are prominently placed where they wont be drowned out as easily.
Very cool Damon. I dont know anything about synthesizers so i look forward to hearing what kinds of unique sounds you can get from the dulcimer.
Ive been making really simple lures as a hobby for several years now. Mainly spoons and tied flies but ive also tried making a couple molds for soft plastic lures, and Ive whittled a couple from wood as well. Catching a fish on my own lure is not only a very rewarding feeling, but has also taught me a lot about what fish really care about vs what they don't.
Thank you very much Sam, that's really kind of you to say and I'm glad that you find it cool.
That is a lot of food for thought and i have a ton of respect for your opinion, so thank you very much for taking the time to share it.
The reason i associate dulcimer with 3 string guitar is because of the many 3 string cigar box guitars tuned to Dad that have essentially the same layout as a chromatic dulcimer, but with the string order reversed. I do agree that the tone is entirely different, but i have seen a lot of overlap of tabs and instructions between 3 string cigar box guitars and dulcimers.
To my understanding dulcimers were originally a "simplified" version of European zithers created with limited resources and the modern instrument has developed from that. I am sure that folks back them would have loved chromatic fretboards, if they were as easy to make as they are now.
Thanks again for sharing your opinions and knowledge
Nate
I hear that Gale! I build aquavina dulcimers, which have only existed for a couple decades and I know of less than 5 people that have built them. What i build and play are at the edges of what could be considered a dulcimer, but i have noticed that dulcimers have more unique and distinctive designs than any other instrument i know of. To me, innovation is the spirit of dulcimer.
The chromatic dulcimer is one of the most contentious topics ive noticed surrounding dulcimer. The traditional significance and cultural value are some of the most interesting aspects of the dulcimer, so it makes sense to me that people dont want that to fall by the wayside in an attempt to turn dulcimer into a 3 string guitar.
Its hard to balance the unique characteristics that make dulcimer interesting with the standardized characteristics that make it modern.
