Forum Activity for @nate

to get chromatic or not

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thank you very much Sam, that's really kind of you to say and I'm glad that you find it cool.

to get chromatic or not

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@mark-gilston

That is a lot of food for thought and i have a  ton of respect for your opinion, so thank you very much for taking the time to share it.

The reason i associate dulcimer with 3 string guitar is because of the many 3 string cigar box guitars tuned to Dad that have essentially the same layout as a chromatic dulcimer, but with the string order reversed. I do agree that the tone is entirely different, but i have seen a lot of overlap of tabs and instructions between 3 string cigar box guitars and dulcimers.

To my understanding dulcimers were originally a "simplified" version of European zithers created with limited resources and the modern instrument has developed from that. I am sure that folks back them would have loved chromatic fretboards, if they were as easy to make as they are now.

Thanks again for sharing your opinions and knowledge 

Nate

to get chromatic or not

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I hear that Gale! I build aquavina dulcimers, which have only existed for a couple decades and I know of less than 5 people that have built them. What i build and play are at the edges of what could be considered a dulcimer, but i have noticed that dulcimers have more unique and distinctive designs than any other instrument i know of. To me, innovation is the spirit of dulcimer.

to get chromatic or not

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The chromatic dulcimer is one of the most contentious topics ive noticed surrounding dulcimer. The traditional significance and cultural value are some of the most interesting aspects of the dulcimer, so it makes sense to me that people dont want that to fall by the wayside in an attempt to turn dulcimer into a 3 string guitar.

Its hard to balance the unique characteristics that make dulcimer interesting with the standardized characteristics that make it modern.

Hammered Dulcimer EXR

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

That's an awesome story Jim. Thanks for taking the time to share it.

updated by @nate: 01/11/25 12:30:26AM

Any body have an idea what this is ?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

 

It can be really confusing to navigate all of the European zithers and their nuances. The huge variety of different styles of dulcimer can make it difficult to parse through. While stylistically the instrument resembles some European predecessors, functionally it is much more similar to an Appalachian dulcimer than to any other instrument.

Glad to hear the instrument found a home, it sounds like it may have needed some maintenance before playing. Out of curiosity, since this post is several years old, do you still play dulcimer?
-Nate

Any body have an idea what this is ?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I have heard, and tend to generally accept similar things. I almost never play in the second octave unless it's with a noter, and the frets have to be so dang precise when they're that close together, so I often just don't bother adding many extras to it. 9/10 times if I need an extra fret it's either for chord strumming, or because a tab used it, so in either case I don't usually need it an octave higher. 

I do find it especially odd that the second octave *does* have a 10.5 fret but no 8.5 fret. I would think that the 8.5 would be much more useful if you were to pick only one of the two.

updated by @nate: 01/10/25 05:11:30PM

Any body have an idea what this is ?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Kind of funny to see the 1.5 and 3.5 on the first octave, but no 1.5 fret on the second octave (8.5 fret). It makes me wonder if the extra frets were added after construction. In the past i have sometimes added half frets for specific arrangements, and Im usually too lazy to also add the fret to the second octave. 

updated by @nate: 01/10/25 04:26:30PM

String vibrates

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Im really glad you mentioned camera and light source angle Ken. That is definitely what i was failing to consider. I guess if the camera and light source were both directly above the instrument, the shadow would move much less

String vibrates

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Id really love to know more about this. I've seen Bing do it in a few videos and I just can't wrap my head around it. I believe it is due to the interaction between the vibration of the string and the cameras frame rate, but visually, the shadow seems to move a lot further than the actual string does. Is the bass string actually moving over the edge of the fingerboard, or is this some type of optical illusion?

updated by @nate: 01/08/25 05:23:46PM

Hello! Anyone know about Mawhee?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Very cool. Mawhee was the absolute first maker that I learned about, after trying to look up "walkabout and stick dulcimers" lol. Welcome to the forum. I hope your personal connection to the dulcimer grows into a lifetime of enjoyment.
-Nate

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

@patrick If you punch your VSL into a fret calculator for guitar, the third fret is the same as the 1.5 on dulcimer 

Tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Good point, Wally.
As a builder, I want my tuner to be as precise as possible to make sure that my instrument is as precise as possible. If the tuner is off, then the bridge will be off, and the frets will be off and the whole instrument will have a compounding error. 
If I were to place my bridge using a tuner that considers 9 cents sharp to be "in the green." and then also tuned my string 9 cents sharp, that could lead to terrible intonation near the end of the second octave.

I also think that our pitch perception is only as precise as the data we give it, so it's just good practice to get as close as I can, unless I have some reason not to.

Tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 

In general, a phone app on a modern smartphone will typically be much more precise than a clip on tuner, as the microphone quality of smartphones is higher than that of clip on tuners. One big downside to using your phone is that it picks up all background noise as well. I use an app for android called soundcorset and it works perfectly for me. Another cool thing about soundcorset is that you can adjust the pitch standard to things other than A440, which can be fun to mess around with.

I have had a couple snarks, as well as some other clip on tuners and I think they work great.  Tuners that clip onto the headstock are really convenient because they don't pick up much ambient noise, plus theyre very portable and simple. My only problem is that I always end up losing them my favorite was a cheap violin tuner that showed which octave you are in and how many cents off you are. I wish I could say what brand it was, but I've misplaced it lol.

Like Dusty said, just about any tuner will do the job. I really like the convenience of using my phone, but it doesnt work as well if there's a lot of wind or background noise.

A while ago I compared several different tuners and found that the cheap generic ones that came for free with instruments I've bought are frequently off by a few cents. Even that really shouldn't matter though.



updated by @nate: 12/30/24 10:37:22PM

Question for newbie on a new instrument

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The instrument has really cool decoration and definitely seems like a good deal at that price, though I'm not sure how much it would cost to repair the soundboard, per what Ken mentioned. For your question about if the instrument is well suited to a beginner, a four course equidistant setup can often be considered more difficult than a three course setup. Four string equidistant is not necessarily the easiest for a beginner, however if you are ambitious, it might be a fun challenge. Four string equidistant definitely works great for finger picking!

Three Strings or Four ?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 
As I explained in the other thread where you mentioned this, it is incorrect. The builder sets the action after the frets are already installed. The action is determined by the distance between the crowns of the frets and the bottom of the strings, so the actual height of the frets does not affect action. 

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for all these neat details @john-c-knopf

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Also, if you were to get a nut of a different thickness, which I don't recommend until you understand the instrument better, the most important thing is that the length of the VSL isnt changed. Under no circumstances should a new nut and bridge cause the VSL to become any longer or shorter. A new nut and bridge should snugly fit against the inside edges of the slots from the old nut and bridge.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
There isnt a steadfast answer, because if the strings are at a higher tension, they can allow a smaller space, whereas at a lower tension they need more space. Also, super glue has been mass produced since the 60s, but it is not preferable. If you were to fill in the slots, there is an old trick of filling slots with baking soda, then carefully dripping on superglue, which creates a very strong compound. Also, filling the slots with sawdust and adding wood glue can work well. Sawdust and wood flue is more aesthetic, whereas baking soda and superglue is much stronger.
updated by @nate: 12/16/24 02:29:29AM

Disappointed with customer service from The Dulcimer Shoppe.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thats really unfortunate to hear. Its important to know that an Appalachian dulcimer is often built in a much more "hands on" fashion than most mass produced string instruments, and still often manages to offer handmade instruments at much lower prices than other instruments made in factories. For this reason, some amount of imperfections could be expected.

Nonetheless, I can definitely understand your frustration. If the instrument was damaged before it reached you, it doesnt make sense that they should say "we didnt look that close." Given that a skilled woodworker would obviously know if they accidentally left dents on the wood. 

They should have known the level of cosmetic issue on the instrument and should have been honest with you about it before shipping, and after your negative feedback.

In a business sense, its surprising that they didnt simply placate you, even if they disagreed.

updated by @nate: 12/05/24 09:46:49PM

Chromatic Dulcimer is still a Dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
The frets should already be installed before the action is determined. String action is set by adjusting the height of the nut and bridge relative to the tops of the fret crowns, so the height of the frets doesn't affect the action of the instrument. 

Confused about strings gauge reccomendations...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have gone down to .08 and up to .16 for a D melody string on a 25" vsl. Its mostly a matter of preference. The amount of tension on the strings affects tone, volume, and sustain. It also affects how comfortable the instrument is to fret. A lot of dulcimer players prefer pretty low tension, relative to an acoustic guitar of the same VSL, for example.

Inner melody string flat by the 3rd fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for sharing those photos. I would say that the string spacing on that dulcimer is pretty unusual, which might make it extra difficult to play. If you look at the dulcimer in the 4th photo you attached, you can see that the two melody strings are usually close together, and the "course" of paired melody strings is equally spaced with the other two strings. I'm not sure if your father in law intended for it to be "paired melody strings" or "four string equidistant" but I think it would difficult to play in either.
Also, there are many different ways to hold a noter based on your preference, and I recommend joining the "Old Style Drone & Noter players group if you haven't already.
https://fotmd.com/strumelia/group/19/old-style-drone-noter-players

updated by @nate: 11/26/24 06:27:20PM

Inner melody string flat by the 3rd fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thats a very peculiar design in a few different ways. Could you please take a photo of the entire instrument, id be really curious to see it

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Wow @chris-hornby . That is quite a futuristic approach. It turned out great. I'd love to hear a recording of it!

Looking to buy a new dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks Ken for clarifying. I should have been more explicit that the difference in a Daaa and Dadd bridge is VERY slight, and will likely equate to only a couple cents difference. It is nowhere near enough difference to sound "off" however, if you are keen on developing your ear to hear subtle differences over time, in my opinion its good to have the most precise intonation possible.

Looking to buy a new dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
The key difference between a dulcimer indended for Dadd or Daaa is the intonation at the bridge. On a dulcimer intended for Dadd, the melody side of the bridge will be VERY slightly closer to the nut than on on a dulcimer intended to be tuned Daaa. This is because in a pack of strings intended for Dadd, the melody string will be thinner than the middle string (eg 22,14,12,12) whereas in a pack intended for Daaa, the melody string will be the same gauge as the middle string.(eg 22,14,14,14) The thicker a string gauge, the further away from the nut the bridge needs to be for the string to be properly intonated.
So basically, if you play the instrument in both tunings, you should pick whichever one you play more often. The bridge placement will be slightly better intonated to that tuning than the other. Most of the tunings that you mentioned are closer to Dadd than to Daaa, so if you play them all regularly, I would recommend the Dadd instrument. 
Nate

Silicone Free Furniture Polish

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks for the insight Ken. I have avoided lacquer on my finger boards, to try to avoid "sealing" them in rather than letting the wood "breathe." In general i treat the body of my dulcimers with a coating of sealant like polyurethane and just put oil on the fingerboard. In the past I have left a ton of fingerboards untreated, and typically the oil from my hands attracts grime, leaving a dark color to the areas that i fret the most often.

Silicone Free Furniture Polish

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hey folks I've heard before that furniture polish shouldnt be used on fingerboards. As best as I can tell, this is because they often contain silicone (like pledge for example) which apparently builds up on the wood or something like that. I have a can of orange oil based furniture polish that specifically says it doesnt contain silicone, so Im wondering if this can be used to clean fingerboards. Is silicone the only concern with using furniture polish? According to the online details, it contains orange oil and mineral oil, and specifically does not contain silicone or linseed oil.

Thanks

Nate

updated by @nate: 11/14/24 06:13:18PM

Appalachian Dulcimer Museum

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ken I'm really grateful that you did; thank you very much. I was super curious, and I'll likely not have any chance to go there any time soon so I'm very appreciative for this.

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Wow that is seriously cool. How did you manage to get such intricate cuts into the plywood? That must have taken a lot of work to make.

 

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Sorry to hear that, i have noticed that sometimes having a "false bottom/galax board" or a built in "possum board" can dampen my sound. After several experiments I think a very rigid and thin "false bottom" is best for tone and sustain. I also think that the inside face of the "false bottom" should be coated in something that is "sonically reflective." A hard layer of shellac, polyurethane, or anything else that is super rigid.

Id love to see more pictures, the instrument looks awesome 

Nate

updated by @nate: 10/22/24 06:32:51PM

Differences between two dulcimers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
It's often thick sheets of really stiff paperboard, but some are actual corrugated cardboard. Because the board is very stiff and lightweight, the instruments are shockingly loud and punchy, especially for their price. The box itself will not be durable if you're not careful, but the fingerboard will be good quality, and as Ken mentioned you can simply remove the fingerboard and glue it onto a different box later.
I've seen them in kits that you assemble yourself for as little as 45$, but for under 100, you can find some that look and sound pretty nice.

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Wow, that's pretty cool Chris. What material is the dulcimer made from? Also, do you mean that it has an additional sound board on the inside of the instrument?

Differences between two dulcimers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It seems to me that since both options are good quality, and you cant actually play or hear either one before buying, it might be best to pick whichever one you like better aesthetically. If you like to look at it, youll like to have it out, and you'll want to play it more often 😁 

How Many Dulcimers Do You Own?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thats a pretty cool instrument. I like the tin at the end and the bridge setup is clever. Thanks for sharing

How Many Dulcimers Do You Own?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Very cool @dulcillini

I love the pattern of the one on the left and the shape of the one on the right 👍🏽 

How Many Dulcimers Do You Own?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That is awesome @overdrive

Id love to see a photo of the dulcimer that has served you all this time

Nate

How do I put a new posting in "The :Positive Thread?"

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Thank you for sharing this story. As a child, something like a cane can instantly make one feel like a sophisticated adult. I remember how much joy I got strutting around with my grandfather's canes when i was little. it's so great to have sentimental things like that, which can still find use all this time later.

1977 Robert Mize

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
I believe that the pamphlet is intending that you tune your instrument to Daaa, and is suggesting that you use the G string from a guitar for the D, and three high E strings from a guitar for the As. Geee is not a tuning that is used on dulcimer.
Nate