International Appalachian Dulcimer Day
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
I fully agree @dusty . I couldn't help but laugh at the idea of an AI bot reading MY post and then giving me misleading information about my own instrument 
Forum Activity for @nate
Silicone Free Furniture Polish
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Dusty, I've heard a lot of good feedback about Feed-N-Wax. I asked because I happened to already have this can of furniture polish, and was hoping to find a use for it. I have used it a few times on my dulcimers, and the orange oil does a good job at keeping the wood vitalized, for lack of a better word.
Silicone Free Furniture Polish
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
robert schuler:
Tung oil works well when applied really thin on fingerboards. I go to great pains to keep all things silicone away from my work benches. If in doubt rub any suspicious wood surface with acetone. There are many fine paste waxes that are silicone free...Robert
Thank you for the insight, Robert.
International Appalachian Dulcimer Day
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Dusty Turtle:
We made it into the AI algorithms! That constitutes success in my book, even if the information being spewed by the bots is factually incorrect.
More than a few times, I have searched topics that relate to dulcimer, and have gotten AI autofill that is presenting information from, and referencing my own forum posts on this website.
This one stands out to me
updated by @nate: 03/20/25 08:23:33PM
Lute Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Thank you very much Ken for this comprehensive answer. The Horstobel Sachs system has always been hard for me to wrap my head around, but what you typed is super easy to grasp. Would any discontinuous fretboard then be considered a lute?
Lute Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
It's hard to differentiate the concept of a dulcimer from its fretboard and string layout. A three course instrument with a paired melody course and two accompanying courses in the same key is such a powerful concept that it gets applied to all kinds of different resonators.
On the topic of lutes and zithers, I am wondering how this system reconciles something like a discontinuous fingerboard which terminates before the bridge, or a dulcimer with a fingerboard that extends beyond the box. Is the following photo a lute or zither?
Hearts of the Dulcimer.
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Unfortunately, since I live in Southern Oregon, my local library has been ruined by the anti homeless measures, and will probably never recover. Most of the libraries in my area have been totally stripped of funding and local support in order to make the area more hostile to homeless people.
Northern California has a terrific dulcimer community, with plentiful old hippies who love the instrument. I especially loved the section on "counterculture."
updated by @nate: 03/13/25 06:56:26AM
Introduce Yourself!
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
MerlinPicker101:
Hello world!
I’m Gareth, living just outside Edinburgh here in Scotland. I’ve played mandolin off/on for around 20 years (doesn’t make me good though!) and I drifted toward the Seagull Merlin family of instruments having noted them in a local music shop, along with mountain dulcimers. Exposure to traditional folk from the US got me interested in the dulcimer.
Presently I have two mandolins, a ‘project’ bouzouki and a Merlin which I bought gently used a few weeks ago. I’m finding the relative freedom of the Merlin to be really amazing and drawn to pick it up whenever I can. Usually while dinner is cooking or between meetings at work (when I’m working at home).
In the past I’ve played in a few groups with friends, then as part of a mandolin and guitar orchestra, but now mainly music-making is for my own amusement and general sanity.
Welcome Gareth! The "strumstick" variety of dulcimer is less common but definitely a ton of fun.
Scale length
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
John C. Knopf:
Dulcimore Dan is an I.D. Stamper fan! I.D. used those long, jangly, low-pitched strings on his dulcimers.
Dulcimore Dan, you, and I all are all ID Stamper fans!
Certainly, he was the first dulcimer artist that I heard playing a long dulcimer tuned low, and he really opened up my mind about the instrument.
Scale length
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Wow there are some pretty skilled musicians showcasing those instruments
I think that any effort to directly compare different VSLs would be a compromise of all kinds of other features that probably affect tone far more than VSL. While the original question specifically asked about scale length, there is also the broader question of how tone, volume, and sustain are affected by a physically larger instrument. I think in general dulcimers with long VSLs tend to often have larger soundboards, are often taller, are often sturdier and can handle more tension, and are often tuned lower. The many other factors that come along with a long VSL can affect the tone more than the VSL itself.
Scale length
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Dusty Turtle:
Yeah, to actually measure the difference, we would need to hold all the other variables constant. We would need the same builder to make identical instruments with the exception of the VSL. Same box, same bracing, same wood types, same wood thickness, same amount of glue, etc. And even then we would have to decide what string gauges to use. Would you choose the gauges most appropriate for the longer VSL or the shorter? Would you cut the difference in half to measure? Either way, you are not really hearing the way at least one of the dulcimers would normally sound.
Hypothetically, one could make two identical boxes with different VSLs and choose two string gauges which would produce an equal amount of tension at the two lengths. for example, if both were tuned to D4, you could have a 22" VSL with a 0.010 string and a 31" VSL with a 0.007 and both would have about ~10.5 lb of tension.
Of course youd never be able to perfectly account for the difference in the actual fingerboards. I guess one possibility would be to have both fingerboards be 31" long, and the "shorter" scale just doesn't reach the end of its fingerboard.
It really is too many questions rolled up into one.
updated by @nate: 03/11/25 01:50:24PM
Scale length
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Strumelia:
Adding to what Dusty said, tone can also be greatly effected by the wood thickness... not simply by the size of the sound box and its scale length.
And also, having the correct amount of tension to complement the thickness of the box. Thicker wood can need more string energy to get excited, so an instrument intended for high tension can sound more hollow with low tension. Kind of like when you put nylon strings on a steel string instrument.
Scale length
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Does a longer instrument simply have more tension because the players choose to use higher tension strings?
When I string up longer dulcimers, I use smaller gauge strings or lower pitch tunings to compensate. Similarly, when I string up shorter dulcimer, I use thicker strings or higher tunings to compensate. I prefer the tactile experience of having thinner strings, and I also notice a difference in sustain with longer strings, even when they are not at a higher tension.
Scale length
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
One thing to note is that a longer scale length/VSL usually means a physically larger instrument, which can affect tone and volume.
This is just an observation and I might be wrong about this, but to me, when tuned to the same note with the same tension, thinner longer strings seem to have a fuller tone than thicker, shorter strings.
DAD........but no chords
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
I am not a traditional player and my dulcimers all have a 6.5 fret, but I definitely enjoy playing melody drone with a noter or my thumb in Dad. If I didn't have a 6.5 fret, well it might be fun to mess around with but definitely wouldn't be the same.
A Question about dulcimer popularity...
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Hey now Dusty, the Nate fanclub may be small, but it has a quality few members. xD
It's a very true point though. Popular artists of the 70s played a huge role in the re-emergence of the instrument. Joni Mitchell, Emmylou Harris, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, etc. Often when you look at the comment section of tracks from that era that included dulcimer you will see people talking about how the sound stood out to them.
In modern times, Harry Styles, who was a member of the popular boy band One Direction, had a song that heavily featured the dulcimer and while his audience probably didnt notice, as a dulcimer player I definitely did.
A Question about dulcimer popularity...
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
While I totally agree with you Wally, I think that dulcimer has recently rediscovered it's place as an instrument that is great for amateur builders to make for themselves. I have personally taught a bunch of people to build dulcimers. With modern tools and hardware, it's easier than ever for people to make their own dulcimers, and for people who like to build instruments, dulcimers and strumsticks are a common project.
Personally, I mainly built cigar box guitars before learning about dulcimers, and I have preferred making dulcimers since.
I think that the lack of commercial viability is also an indication of the durability or dulcimers, and the care given to them. There are probably more dulcimers out there than dulcimer players, so making new ones is best left to folks who make exceptional instruments, like many of the fine luthiers on this site. 
updated by @nate: 02/04/25 09:39:13PM
A Question about dulcimer popularity...
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Certainly not my interest! I really want to know what folks who have been playing for decades think about this.
I am a young person and have not played for very long so this observation is limited. From my conversations with others, it seems that the instrument has been on a slow and steady decline since the folk revival. I think the instrument has incredible potential for a come back, but at the moment I would say that the popularity sadly seems to be on decline.
Action/ nickel under the 7th
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Hello Art. The nickel should be on top of the 7th fret and the dime should be sitting on the fretboard in the space between the nut and the first fret, flush against the first fret. Here are a couple of photos.
If the string is too high at the dime, you may need to make the nut slightly less tall by removing it and sanding a tiny bit off the bottom. If the string is too high at the nickel, you may need to sand a little off the bridge. Always go slow, and keep in mind that its a lot easier to take too much off than it is to put material back.
An important thing to note is that the dime will not be a useful reference if your instrument has jumbo fretwire, because the frets will be taller than the dime.
updated by @nate: 02/01/25 07:04:12PM
Introduce Yourself!
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Well i hope that character uploads again, because it was very cool ambient dulcimer music.
Tuners
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Interestingly Jim, leaving the clip on tuner on the instrument has become a symbol of proud naivete in some genres. The idea that a player needs regular access to a tuner is meant to be an indicator that they are very versatile, but not classically trained. Its a funny signal of authenticity that i see a lot in genres like folk punk.
Introduce Yourself!
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
There is one guy @glowhazel that used to upload really neat ambient stuff. Sadly i dont think hes posted anything recently.
playing along in a bluegrass jam
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Hello Jon. In my opinion, even when playing with louder instruments the dulcimer still fits nicely into the blend and adds a lot to the overall sound. Assuming you can't use any kind of amplification and are wanting the sound of the dulcimer to stand out, it helps to consider where all the players are relative to eachother and make sure that the quieter instruments are prominently placed where they wont be drowned out as easily.
Introduce Yourself!
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Very cool Damon. I dont know anything about synthesizers so i look forward to hearing what kinds of unique sounds you can get from the dulcimer.
Ive been making really simple lures as a hobby for several years now. Mainly spoons and tied flies but ive also tried making a couple molds for soft plastic lures, and Ive whittled a couple from wood as well. Catching a fish on my own lure is not only a very rewarding feeling, but has also taught me a lot about what fish really care about vs what they don't.
to get chromatic or not
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Thank you very much Sam, that's really kind of you to say and I'm glad that you find it cool.
to get chromatic or not
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
That is a lot of food for thought and i have a ton of respect for your opinion, so thank you very much for taking the time to share it.
The reason i associate dulcimer with 3 string guitar is because of the many 3 string cigar box guitars tuned to Dad that have essentially the same layout as a chromatic dulcimer, but with the string order reversed. I do agree that the tone is entirely different, but i have seen a lot of overlap of tabs and instructions between 3 string cigar box guitars and dulcimers.
To my understanding dulcimers were originally a "simplified" version of European zithers created with limited resources and the modern instrument has developed from that. I am sure that folks back them would have loved chromatic fretboards, if they were as easy to make as they are now.
Thanks again for sharing your opinions and knowledge
Nate
to get chromatic or not
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
I hear that Gale! I build aquavina dulcimers, which have only existed for a couple decades and I know of less than 5 people that have built them. What i build and play are at the edges of what could be considered a dulcimer, but i have noticed that dulcimers have more unique and distinctive designs than any other instrument i know of. To me, innovation is the spirit of dulcimer.
to get chromatic or not
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
The chromatic dulcimer is one of the most contentious topics ive noticed surrounding dulcimer. The traditional significance and cultural value are some of the most interesting aspects of the dulcimer, so it makes sense to me that people dont want that to fall by the wayside in an attempt to turn dulcimer into a 3 string guitar.
Its hard to balance the unique characteristics that make dulcimer interesting with the standardized characteristics that make it modern.
Hammered Dulcimer EXR
Adventures with 'other' instruments...
That's an awesome story Jim. Thanks for taking the time to share it.
updated by @nate: 01/11/25 12:30:26AM
Any body have an idea what this is ?
Adventures with 'other' instruments...
Mick McLaughlin:
I was never convinced about any heritage as a mountain dulcimer. I believe to was better related to some of the dulcimers European cousins such as Epinette des Vosges or Hummels
It can be really confusing to navigate all of the European zithers and their nuances. The huge variety of different styles of dulcimer can make it difficult to parse through. While stylistically the instrument resembles some European predecessors, functionally it is much more similar to an Appalachian dulcimer than to any other instrument.
Glad to hear the instrument found a home, it sounds like it may have needed some maintenance before playing. Out of curiosity, since this post is several years old, do you still play dulcimer?
-Nate
Any body have an idea what this is ?
Adventures with 'other' instruments...
I have heard, and tend to generally accept similar things. I almost never play in the second octave unless it's with a noter, and the frets have to be so dang precise when they're that close together, so I often just don't bother adding many extras to it. 9/10 times if I need an extra fret it's either for chord strumming, or because a tab used it, so in either case I don't usually need it an octave higher.
I do find it especially odd that the second octave *does* have a 10.5 fret but no 8.5 fret. I would think that the 8.5 would be much more useful if you were to pick only one of the two.
updated by @nate: 01/10/25 05:11:30PM
Any body have an idea what this is ?
Adventures with 'other' instruments...
Kind of funny to see the 1.5 and 3.5 on the first octave, but no 1.5 fret on the second octave (8.5 fret). It makes me wonder if the extra frets were added after construction. In the past i have sometimes added half frets for specific arrangements, and Im usually too lazy to also add the fret to the second octave.
updated by @nate: 01/10/25 04:26:30PM
String vibrates
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Im really glad you mentioned camera and light source angle Ken. That is definitely what i was failing to consider. I guess if the camera and light source were both directly above the instrument, the shadow would move much less
String vibrates
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Id really love to know more about this. I've seen Bing do it in a few videos and I just can't wrap my head around it. I believe it is due to the interaction between the vibration of the string and the cameras frame rate, but visually, the shadow seems to move a lot further than the actual string does. Is the bass string actually moving over the edge of the fingerboard, or is this some type of optical illusion?
updated by @nate: 01/08/25 05:23:46PM
Hello! Anyone know about Mawhee?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Very cool. Mawhee was the absolute first maker that I learned about, after trying to look up "walkabout and stick dulcimers" lol. Welcome to the forum. I hope your personal connection to the dulcimer grows into a lifetime of enjoyment.
-Nate
instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
@patrick If you punch your VSL into a fret calculator for guitar, the third fret is the same as the 1.5 on dulcimer
Tuners
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Good point, Wally.
As a builder, I want my tuner to be as precise as possible to make sure that my instrument is as precise as possible. If the tuner is off, then the bridge will be off, and the frets will be off and the whole instrument will have a compounding error.
If I were to place my bridge using a tuner that considers 9 cents sharp to be "in the green." and then also tuned my string 9 cents sharp, that could lead to terrible intonation near the end of the second octave.
I also think that our pitch perception is only as precise as the data we give it, so it's just good practice to get as close as I can, unless I have some reason not to.
Tuners
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Lilley Pad:
Tuners Hi kids, I hope everybody is doing well and had a good Christmas. I have a question about tuners and what your experience is with the one that you have, or the one that you can recommend. I have the Snark tuner, mainly because I don't know any better. It seems to work okay I guess. But If I compare it to the one I downloaded on my phone the phone app says that I'm a little flat compared to the Snark. I have heard that the Peterson strobe Is a better unit what is your opinion out there. THANKS
In general, a phone app on a modern smartphone will typically be much more precise than a clip on tuner, as the microphone quality of smartphones is higher than that of clip on tuners. One big downside to using your phone is that it picks up all background noise as well. I use an app for android called soundcorset and it works perfectly for me. Another cool thing about soundcorset is that you can adjust the pitch standard to things other than A440, which can be fun to mess around with.
I have had a couple snarks, as well as some other clip on tuners and I think they work great. Tuners that clip onto the headstock are really convenient because they don't pick up much ambient noise, plus theyre very portable and simple. My only problem is that I always end up losing them
my favorite was a cheap violin tuner that showed which octave you are in and how many cents off you are. I wish I could say what brand it was, but I've misplaced it lol.Like Dusty said, just about any tuner will do the job. I really like the convenience of using my phone, but it doesnt work as well if there's a lot of wind or background noise.
A while ago I compared several different tuners and found that the cheap generic ones that came for free with instruments I've bought are frequently off by a few cents. Even that really shouldn't matter though.
updated by @nate: 12/30/24 10:37:22PM
Question for newbie on a new instrument
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
The instrument has really cool decoration and definitely seems like a good deal at that price, though I'm not sure how much it would cost to repair the soundboard, per what Ken mentioned. For your question about if the instrument is well suited to a beginner, a four course equidistant setup can often be considered more difficult than a three course setup. Four string equidistant is not necessarily the easiest for a beginner, however if you are ambitious, it might be a fun challenge. Four string equidistant definitely works great for finger picking!
Three Strings or Four ?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
s11141827:
Jumbo frets are taller than normal frets which effectively lowers the action
As I explained in the other thread where you mentioned this, it is incorrect. The builder sets the action after the frets are already installed. The action is determined by the distance between the crowns of the frets and the bottom of the strings, so the actual height of the frets does not affect action.