Forum Activity for @nate

Could what appears to be a slot near the 6.5 just be discoloration of the wood? In the close up photo it doesnt look like those 'slots' go all the way across the width of the fingerboard. The dulcimer looks great, so it's hard to believe the original builder just left the slot unfilled. You could always put a fret in it and call it "microtonal" lol.

In reference to bowed dulcimers, I know there are a lot of types and styles. Personally I just add a radius to the bridge, with the middle string being physically higher than the melody and bass, and call it good there. It makes the intonation a bit trickier, but it solves the challenge of bowing (or plucking) the middle string individually.

I would think that overall, a radiused fingerboard on dulcimer would have a small benefit, but wouldn't be worth the effort. When I made one just out of curiosity, I found that since I wasn't already used to barring chords, it didn't have any immediate benefit for me.

Personally, i tried making a radiused fretboard once years ago. As far as I understand it, the main benefit of a radiused fretboard is that its easier to apply pressure for things like barre chords. I dont think this matters as much on a dulcimer as on a guitar, since it takes a lot less force to fret a dulcimer in the first place.

Alex, i think it definitely depends on what kind of music is being played. Personally, i dont play very complex rhythms or strum patterns, and to me it feels like my fretting hand is dong a lot more precise movement compared to the strumming hand. It makes sense to me, though, that plucking would be more strenuous than fretting at a high level.

Very true Alex!

I find that many combinations of root notes tend to just make things more confusing, which is a fun opportunity to find something new. 

Most of the time, I will alter the tuning in order to achieve specific chords and fit them together into a track, but many of these alternate tunings are fairly difficult for me to play a full song in. Again, it's just an opportunity to try a little harder.

Since I build all my dulcimers, $20 is about my average cost with some being closer to 5 and the most being about 30.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, and I have no doubt you will provide more creative music with creative tunings. 

I hope you have a great day as well, 

Nate

Personally, i have a massive pile of strings and quite a few dulcimers(8 at the moment), so I often experiment with different string gauge combinations, each combination having a different range of possible tunings. Alternate tunings are a fun way to keep myself engaged when I'm getting a little bored and don't know what to do about it.

I would assume that you can probably do a lot more with them than I could, given your background. 

If each string can be tuned down 3 steps or up 2 steps, that is 6 possible notes per string, which I think amounts to 1200 possible combinations on a 4 string dulcimer. Then it's just a matter of finding the ones that are actually useful lol. I personally am a big fan of ADAd and DAdf#, but as you said, there are so many options.

Richard, I am very paranoid when tuning a new instrument and I wear protective goggles when I do, but I have a lot of dulcimers with old strings and I am always worried that one will break while Im playing. Unfortunately goggles arent always an option, so I'm mostly trying to gauge what a worst case scenario would look like. 

Robin, I could definitely imagine that it hurts. I personally take a mechanical pencil and scribble some graphite into the slots before putting the strings on, and this helps a lot with friction at the nut. 

Jamie, that is good to hear, and I imagine that where it whips is somewhat erratic, so I hope that stays consistent for you. It's good to hear that nobody has an instance of being whipped in the face. 

Thanks all

Welcome Alex, glad to have you here. I enjoyed the song you posted.
 To answer your questions 
1:  There are some players I've seen that don't seem to use their thumb very much at all, unless it's to make a stretch while holding a chord shape. Stephen Siefert and Aaron O'rourke come to mind. It does look  more comfortable on the wrist.

2: I am right handed, and I've often felt like the left hand is doing harder work than the right on a dulcimer. It might be an advantage to play right handed if you're left handed.

3: I do. It can be a good source of inspiration. I usually stick to 1-5-8 tunings in various keys, but I've recently been playing more 4 string, which opens up a lot more opportunities. 

4: I learned dulcimer with tab, since there is such a huge number of tabs available. Staff notation is a bit intimidating for me, especially when I change keys or modes. I only use it when I have to, like if I'm playing with others and they are using it.

Hey folks. I use pretty heavy gauge strings on my dulcimers and don't change them very often. So far, I haven't had a string break while playing, but I've always been kind of paranoid, since my face is directly above the strings. My fear is that the string will snap, whip up, and hit me in the eye faster than I can blink. I'm just hoping for some anecdotes about strings breaking while playing: if anyone has ever been hurt by one and where the strings tend to go when they do break.
Thanks,
Nate

That makes sense wally, thanks.

It seems there are a lot of different aspects of the build that could affect how it handles tension. Bracing, full length fretboard vs discontinuous, whether the fingerboard is hollowed, how deep the strumhollow is, how thin the boards are, how high you keep your tension, etc. 

It makes sense to me that the ends of the fingerboard would slowly and gradually bow upward, but with a quality dulcimer it sounds like the consensus is that it's negligible.

"but, in my opinion, the minute aspects of wooden bodies' shapes are better preserved if string tension it maintained. "

Im curious to know more about this Wally. Are you basically saying that the wood "settles" when its kept under the correct amount of tension?  Or that the changes in tension would put more stress on the wood cells/finish? Both of those would make sense to me.

Id say that detuning the strings by just a little bit is a good idea. While some instruments seem to hold up really well to warping over time...other fare less well. Damage from tension, sunlight, or moisture would be cumulative over a long time. So overall, I'd say that you dont need to be overly concerned, but it's probably better to store it with the strings somewhat detuned if youre not planning on playing it for a while. It would probably only make a small difference over a long time though, if at all.

That is the same impression I got, matt. On very simple instruments you often see these types of screws that are meant to hold the tension of the string, and typically they cannot support more than 10 lb at most

Anything beyond that starts to dig into the plastic

That is such a neat dulcimer. The craftsmanship and detail is insane, and the woods are so beautiful. 

Wow that is so cool

Sorry i Wally i mistyped that

Thats similar to my favorite setup for 6 string Wally. dd-Aa- Dd

I have made them a couple different ways. I made one with six courses tuned DADf#ad and it sounded awesome but the melody was at times getting drowned out by the lower notes. Im not quite good enough to make full use of all 6 strings. Ive also made one that had six stings in three courses of two strings each. It sounded great but was really difficult to play. I think it would have been really good for noter drone style.

Apologies Robert, I accidentally deleted it while trying to edit it. Thank you for reposting it 

With that said though, I think it's best to simply start with the nut and bridge too tall, and then slowly bring them lower until you get the feel you like, with the range of 0.3mm to 0.8mm between the bottom of the string and the top of the crown of the first fret being a general guideline

Robert that is correct. Using a dime is most effective on instruments with mandolin fretwire. I use jumbo fretwire, which has a crown height that is actually taller than the thickness of a dime. Its a useful trick to avoid needing gauges, but  cant be done with taller fret crowns. the actual distance between the crown of the first fret and the bottom of the string could be as low as 0.3 mm and as high as 0.8mm. If you're planning on playing your instrument at a lower string tension, you may want to consider around 0.5-0.6 mm 

Since apparently amplification isn't allowed, you may want to consider a particularly loud dulcimer. Some dulcimers are quite a bit louder than others. There are a lot of options depending on what kind of tone you prefer. In general, larger dulcimers that can support heavier strings will often be a lot louder than smaller instruments, however if you are looking for something portable, you may need to compromise. 

On one hand, if you particularly wanted to install a "zero fret" made of metal that is an option. Common materials for dulcimer nut and bridge are very hard woods, bone, and plastic.

For the pegs, others might be able to provide insight,  but pegs of standard sizes are super cheap and "peg hole reamers" as well as "peg shavers" might be useful tools to use

It reminds me of the saying "If you do what you know then you'll know what youre doing."

Perhaps this concept was more familiar to the person who installed these tuners so its what they opted for. More than once ive seen people fix instruments in strange ways because it was their first instinct.

I cant imagine what exactly was going through their mind, but it would make sense to me if someone was "winging it."

Thank you, I appreciate it John!

With that said, I have to admit Ive seen a ton of folks use baking pans for resonators on other instruments and i just started slapping them on dulcimers. Id like to think ive seen a lot of string instruments, but using solder instead of screws is definitely a first for me

Ken if i am understanding correctly, there are no screws. After the machine tuners were placed in the peg box, a metal rod was installed spanning from the scroll to the bridge on both sides of the actual tuning cylinder, and the mounting plate ot the tuners were then soldered to the rods.

I might be misunderstanding, the whole thing is just such a head scratcher to me

Soldering tuners into a metal cage gives new meaning to the phrase "locking tuners" LOL

Wow thats the most bizarre system for anchoring tuning pegs that ive ever seen. Is this a method others have seen before?

Thank you for taking the time to articulate your results dulcidom! I have been playing around with these ideas quite a bit. I have a one string dulcimer that i have tuned to exactly 100 Hz and a weighted pendulum that i have been moving down the length of the string and then observing the results in a spectrum analysis software. One observation is that on an instrument like a dulcimer, the overtones that sustain are not always the overtones with the sharpest attack. If one were to look at peak amplitude of frequencies immediately after the "attack" i have found them to be different from the ones that sustain the longest. 

Specifically with the language of tinny, My first guess would be that the strings are not seated correctly in either their slots at the bridge, or their slots at the nut.

Upon first glance at the positive thread, it seems the conversation started with Dusty suggesting that there ought to be a national dulcimer day, as there is a national guitar day, which was quickly expanded by community feedback into international Appalachian dulcimer day. Is that a fair summation?

Hey folks I'd love some clarity about the exact nature of the origins. It seems to me that the discussion in the positive thread started when @dusty brought it up 4 years ago, and this thread was started 3 years ago, but others are saying the holiday is 5 years old. Did this all start with Dusty's suggestion of having a National Dulcimer Day in the positive thread?

Personally Dusty, as someone who has struggled from a lack of definitive information on many dulcimer topics, I'd love for you to put it in black letters

Unfortunately, my IADD video has been postponed too long to matter :(. Lesson learned, and next year i will make a point to prepare a video ahead of time so that its already ready on IADD

For what its worth, I have used one of those under bridge pickups that i took off an electric acoustic guitar and put it on a dulcimer, and did not trim the excess of the braided wire, but instead just drilled a small hole at the edge of the fretboard under the bridge for the excess wire to be tucked into. It sounds great and in the future i might be glad i kept the bit of extra length

Really well said John.  
I commend and thank you for contributing to the scientific understanding of string physics. The words may be subjective, but this thread has compelled me to try to understand the "objective" side of tone a little more.

This topic has got me doing a lot of research and really appreciating how far beyond me most of this stuff is to try to wrap my head around. After a few hours playing around in an audio spectrum visualizer, Im really starting to appreciate just how unreliable my ear is.

Such fascinating stuff 

I think overtones are associated with our perception of depth. An example of an instrument with almost no overtones is a tuning fork, and an example of an instrument with many pronounced overtones is a cello. 


I also think what Dusty mentioned about the string being floppier near the middle may be the main reason that the tone is so different near the middle of the string. I have noticed that the actual pitch of the string wobbles a lot more when I pluck near the middle. Though very unscientific, I just plucked my string as hard as I could right at the bridge and noted that the frequency wobbled in a range of 1 cent. I plucked as hard as I could at the middle of the string and found that it wobbled in a range of about 4 cents. Since the actual string is producing a larger range of frequencies when plucked at the middle, this might be another factor for why the tone is "warmer" near the midpoint of the string.

I've been wondering a lot about this stuff for a while. I think today is the day I make string striking pendulum and start experimenting!

Thank you for taking the time to explain John. I have to admit, I find the results counterintuitive. If a "purer" tone means less overtones, and an instrument like a flute is an example of a very pure tone with few overtones,  it seems to me that I get a "purer" tone while plucking near the end of the string than I do close to the middle.