Forum Activity for @matt-berg

Well, first question, when you sit down and just want to play for a bit, which is your go to instrument?

Dusty Turtle,  I do not have a solution to your bass string squeak.  I do want to congratulate you on getting a Stephen Dulcimer.  I have had the opportunity to talk with Bob about lutherie and was blown away by what he builds.  Enjoy your new instrument.  Matt

Very nice,  Great technique on the wood.

Dwain,

Are you talking about the Pocono Dulcimer Festival?  It is a full day drive from Michigan, but a workshop where builders talk sounds fascinating.

Have you had these workshops before.  Who shows up, what day will it be?

Matt

John,  I did build one dulcimer with a sound post.  both the back and sound board were rounded, it had a floating fretboard that sat on a bridge under the saddle and fretboard.  The instrument did  have good volume and sound.  For a variety of reason, I have move away from rounded soundboards and haven't built another instrument with a sound post.  (The sound post is used to give stability to the sound board against the string tension.  It also transmits vibration to the back.  I tried this to increase the sound coming from the bottom of the instrument, a way of enhancing instruments with a false bottom.)  Matt

Nate,

A few years back American Lutherie had an article about someone trying a similar experiment with jazz guitars.  Jazz guitars have the strings stretched over the sound board, similar to dulcimers, not attached to the soundboard like most guitars.  In the article, the angle of the string from the saddle to the tailpiece was adjusted from near zero the almost 45 degrees.  In this experiment, the volume (quantitative) increased as the angle decreased, but the tone (qualitative) decreased as the angle decreased.  The writer settled on 15 degrees as the optimum angle.  I have tried similar saddle to tailpiece angles with my floating fret board dulcimers with similar results.

Matt

At the risk on being a contrarian, I have had good success with keeping my dulcimer from going sharp as you go up the frets a different way that also helps with the bass buzzing problem.  Rather than focusing on the saddle height, I find adjusting the nut or zero fret slightly higher allows me to keep a more consistent and lower action across the fret board.  Yes, definitely, it sounds like your saddle is too high.  When you get that resolved, and if you are in the mood for even more fine tuning, try raising your nut by maybe 10% and see if you can adjust your saddle down about the same percent.  As with any adjustment, your mileage will vary.

Stain -why?  Lacquer, maybe, will lose some mellow in the tone.  Pick guard, maybe, stick on, no, mounted off the surface, possible, need to know how you plan to mount.

Rubbing alcohol and acetone dissolve dried super glue.

Cyano acrylate (super glue) is a luthier's best friend.  Put down some tape around the fret slot, CAREFULLY put a small amount across the slot, press in the fret and weigh down appropriately.  In this case, clamps would be messy.  Stewmac sells containers of cyano with very narrow tips for just such purposes.

Lorilee,

The "common wisdom" in dulcimers is that there is no tone difference between hourglass and teardrop.  Although probably true for standard dulcimers, many luthiers who build bass dulcimer believe they get a better bass sound from a teardrop shape.  They still make hourglass bass dulcimers because they sell better.  If you are interested in a better bass sound, at least compare the sound of a teardrop with an hourglass for the better bass sound.

Matt

With all due respect to Dusty Turtle (I play his lullaby book and enjoy it), there are many places where a bass dulcimer is great with chords.  I teach a 3/4 workshop and emphasize the bass players keeping the beat by playing the chords at the start of each measure.  Really adds depth to the music.

If you flat pick, the bass dulcimer can be a strong player in the melody.  In Eulberg's new 50 First Songs, Proud Mary and Sitting on the Dock of the Bay are great when played on a bass dulcimer.

I prefer the 26" VSL with a bass.  The heavier strings do make it more difficult to fret and the shorter scale makes it modestly easier.  Yes, a bigger body gives you better projection.

Absolutely get a bass dulcimer and go crazy.  Don't let people slot you into playing only the 1-3 beat.

I have only built a few five string dulcimers, but have never doubled the bass string.  Doubling the bass string gives way too much bass (I tried it once on a six string dulcimer).  I have always doubled the melody and middle string.  So my spacing suggestion is a little different.  Outside melody 1/4 from edge, next melody 1/8 further in.  Bass 1/4 from other edge.  Measure halfway between inside melody and bass.  But middle string 1/16 to either side of the center position.  If you prefer a little more distance between strings, change to only 1/8 from edge of fretboard to first melody and bass.  As always, adjust measurements to taste.

Thanks Ken, I was never sure why the fretboard was raised so high.  Clearing the soundboard with your knuckles makes sense.

Yes, I realized when I posted my comment it would be controversial, but I stand by what I said.  The sweet spot on the dulcimer is not the strum hollow, but on the strings between the 12 and 14 fret and that is where most people play.  Similarly, if you watch how fingerpicking is taught (and I do watch how teachers play, not what they say), again, the sweet spot is over the 12-14 fret.  (Try building a dulcimer with the strum hollow between the 12 and 14 fret and see what people say!)  As far as using a bow,  look at the curve saddle/bridge on a violin and you will understand why the bow is not popular for the flat dulcimer.  A bowed dulcimer has a much bigger space between the finger board and the saddle and the saddle is curved.

Anyway, you know my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

The purpose of the "strum hollow" or scooped area is really just to help make the entire instrument lighter.  You may hear a variety of other explanations.  The same is true with the scoops under the fret board.  The area they free up is much to small to add any vibration or sound, it is simply another way of making the instrument lighter,..., and it looks "cool".

Jim, John, Ken, thanks for the info.  Richlite looks like a good source and I am already talking with them.

Wondering if any of you build using Micarta fretboards and if so, where to you source the material?

Definitely agree with Ken and Andy.  Fret board width and VSL is not an absolute.  What one musician finds ideal, another may find unplayable.  Play many different instruments and find what works for you, or, if you build to sell, make a few different models and give musicians a choice.

As far as wood, same advice.  Find the model of dulcimer you enjoy building, then find the wood that you believe sounds best,..., and ignore the people who think otherwise.  Music is in the ear of the hearer, build what sounds good to you.  Best example, cherry.  Some say it produces a sweet sound and others say it over emphasizes the treble.  Does it sound right to you? Then it is.

Depends on to whom you are talking.  I have heard some describe it as a sweet sound and others a bit trebly.  Cedar is  lighter wood than spruce or almost any hardwood (balsa is a hardwood.)  The instrument should be lighter.  It is also a little weaker than other woods, so might get damaged more easily.

I mostly just shop the acoustic guitar string sales from wherever.  Depending on gauges, the 1-2-3 or 1-2-4 strings make up a three string dulcimer.  Yes, I have many leftover wound strings in a box. I shop the sales at CB Gitty for multi-packs of singles to make up the rest.  If I am looking for extra light strings, I will look at electric guitar strings, but never use the wound strings in those packs.  But that is just the way I buy strings. Others do it differently.

At least wo things are going on here. 

In the science of acoustics on a perfectly balanced string in order to increase the tone of an instrument strung to be two octaves by one octave, you would fret the string in the precise middle.  On a dulcimer, that would be the seven fret.

Nice to know, but our strings are not perfect.  As you fret up the scale, strings tend to go slightly sharp.  As an example stewmac.com has a fret calculator for an acoustic guitar (the closest they have to a dulcimer.)  For this example, I entered an instrument with a 26" VSL.  Stewmac suggests increasing the Treble E string, generally a similar string to our "d" string by 0.091"  and the Bass E by 0.219".  Doing some calculation, that would leave the VSL for our Treble d string at 26.091 and our Bass D string at about 26.10".  Many makers will install the saddle at this slight angle.

For a dulcimer, stewmac suggests setting the break point on the saddle at 26.153" for a non compensated saddle.  Stewmac has typically cheaped out on dulcimers and I do not suggest using that number.

If all you are looking for is a quick way to set your bridge, add 0.01" to the melody side and 0.10 to the Bass side when placing your saddle (it is technically not a bridge as so many dulcimer makers insist) and stop reading this post.

If you want a perfectly exact answer, you need to divide those two numbers by the number of frets you would use if your instrument were chromatic and keep adding multiples of the resulting value to the treble and bass sides of your frets.  Instead of perfectly parallel frets, you would end up with frets that fanned out slightly on the bass side with the seven fret being 0.0455" further out on the treble side and 0.195 further out on the bass side.  The only people I have heard that actually do that are luthiers who sell $30,000 guitars. (And I am sure someone will let me know that they do it on dulcimers.) 

Day to day playing, intonation is in the ear of the musician.  Dusty's solution is the same as I use, a floating saddle that the musician can adjust so that the instrument sounds best in that musician's ear.

Sorry for the long post.  A good answer to your question is not easy and I look forward to reading the other responses.

Bill,  this is not quite a response to your question.  My fretboards have an intermediate step between hollow and sold.  I use a forstner bit and drill 3/4" holes every inch.  Occasionally, the fretboard will warp after drilling the holes.  So far, nothing I can't fix with careful sanding.  

I prefer that the grain runs horizontal to the soundboard.  Again, I have not done any testing of alternate grain patterns.  Now that you mention it. I will try running the grain the other way on my next build.

Sorry about the "Eww". sometime my fingers work faster than my brain.

These photos are a recent build so you see a little of what I am talking about.

 smaller2.jpg - 284KB

Eww, metal dowels?  I use a wooden dowel at the head and a true bridge placed so that the fret board is properly tensioned and does not warp, takes some practice.  The fretboard floats about a 1/4 inch above the soundboard.  The fretboard becomes part of the vibrating part of the instrument and adds (or detracts) from the sound.  This is different from the neck of a guitar.

As far as the soundboard goes, yes, you need to practice bracing so that you emphasize the sound you are looking for. If you are building a standard (treble) dulcimer, try thicker and more bracing.  This will dampen the bass and give you clearer melody notes.  For a bass (my favorite), try longer thinner bracing so that the bass can vibrate.  (The shape of a MD allows for much longer bracing than most other instruments, a difference that can be used.)

If you have difficulty placing the bridge properly, try a second bridge under the seven fret.  A wooden bridge still transfers vibration to the soundboard.  I prefer lighter wood like cedar for my bridges, but like everything a luthier does, whatever works for you is best.

If you are going to try this, you might want to subscribe to American Lutherie.  This magazine focuses on the guitar, but you will find lots of articles by people who have been shaping bracing for years.

Why not try indented markers that are slightly below the surface.  They would be tactile and not interfere with a noter!

Not sure everyone agrees with minimalistic fret markers.  https://www.pinterest.com/deachasuravanic/fret-markers/  Besides, what is wrong with decorations?  (In case it wasn't clear, I am laughing a little at this discussion.)  Fret markers are very much the choice of the luthier/musician.  I have made instruments with no fret markers and a 4 equidistant chromatic dulcimer with both dulcimer and guitar fret markers so many more people could play!

Well, when I first started, I put stickers with 1,2,3,4... on each fret, that helped.  Actually, I think fret markers help develop a pattern in a person's mind.  After playing for a couple years, I realized I didn't look down at the fret board anyway, so maybe everyone should have removable fret markers so when they become extraneous, you can remove them?

Wow, I hope this group never dissects one of my instruments.  Not only do I put fret markers at 3-5-7-10-12, I also put a marker under the frets at 1+,6+,8+ and 13+.  Guess it all depends on what the builder prefers!!  Never noticed that the placement of fret markers influenced the sound of the instrument.  (-:

I suppose if someone played Capo 1 a lot, 4-6-8 might make some sense, maybe.

BTW, after hearing people complain about confusion over plus frets, I place a fret marker underneath the fret for plus frets as a visual marker.  I drill a hole and use a wooden dowel to plug it, then saw the fret slot.  Never had any problems doing so.

I have experimented with the side to side curve, trying anything from no curve to 1/2 inch.  Getting the back to curve more than 1/4" almost always causes the back to crack.  A technique that helps with this is to bend the back when the wood is raw and apply a penetrating finish.  This seems to fix the bend in place.

Instead of a curved back, I angle the sides making the tail 1/2" deeper than the head.

Have you considered contacting Richard Ash at Folkcraft?  He seems always willing to help on questions like this.

Let me second what Ken said.  Building any musical instrument is the product of hundreds of little decisions made by luthier as the instrument is constructed.  An experienced builder makes many of these decision almost subconsciously. Many builders also understand that the buyer needs something to justify whatever price they paid, expensive wood = expensive instrument = quality instrument?

One day I visited the Folkcraft showroom and played two all walnut instruments fresh off the workshop floor.  Both were beautiful instruments.  One had a distinctly more bass sound than the other.  Simply choosing a wood for an instrument is not enough.  Each sample of wood, even from the same tree, will produce different sounds.  Yes, McSpadden has great quality control.  Even so, two instruments made from the same species of wood will sound different.

For anyone truly interested in the sound of their instrument, I suggest going to a showroom and playing as many instruments as appeal to you.  Purchase the one that vibrates to the tune of your body.

Funny, I showed my instruments to Butch a couple years ago at Evart.  I guess he remembered.

Yes, the rounded bottom seems to focus the sound back to the soundboard.

I use fan bracing that comes together at the head and spread all the way to the tailpiece.  With a double neck design, you need to have a more or less wide and flat tail piece .  With a single neck, generally just two braces.  With double necks I find four braces emphasize the treble, three helps the bass.  Similarly, straight bracing emphasizes higher pitches, scalloped bracing lower.  Haven't tried mixing them in one instrument. Pick your poison.

The picture shows a build in progress from a couple years ago.  You can see the fan bracing on the soundboard.  The X-bracing on the bottom is used so the bottom can be rounded.

 inside.jpg - 123KB

The neck rests on a single post under the 0 fret.  The maple fretboard rests about 3/4 from nut to saddle on a bridge on the soundboard.  The strings are set to pull down at a 15 degree angle causing both a bowing down and bowing up tension in the fretboard.  I have been using this technique for about 5 years and have not seen any deforming of the fretboard.

I tried using violin style bridges, bridges that stand alone on the soundboard, but felt too much of the unique dulcimer sound was lost.  Using a fretboard that runs from nut to saddle restored the unique dulcimer sound.

And, yes, the voices of my instruments are much stronger than other dulcimers.  The bass in particular is able to cut through the buzz of a jam, especially when flat picking.

 dulci-peg.jpg - 83KB

Bob,  you mention that your recent soundboard was thinner than typical at 0.100 inches.  My general target for the soundboard is 3/32, roughly 0.100.  Depending on the ping of the wood, I may stop earlier.  What is your general target for soundboard thickness?

(The attached picture is my current build.  You can see the thickness of the soundboard which is made from recovered white cedar.  All of my builds have the neck suspended over the sound board on a single peg and a true bridge.  This is a double neck, treble and bass.)

 dnbuild.jpg - 130KB