Thanks Dan!
And thanks Ken for the suggestions on the instruction books, and the tip on the DAA scale. I'll check out those books!
Thanks Richard!
And thanks, Strumelia, for your P.S below...just saw it...I will post the video. Thanks for the suggestion and invitation!
Ha! Thanks Strumelia! While I was composing that last message, you beat me to it! Thanks so much for all the great suggestions for instructional resources. I look forward to diving in to them!
Thanks, Strumelia...I appreciate all of your advice and ideas that helped me get there. The last few years of developing my post-retirement hobby of building guitars, and restoring/repairing a variety of other (sometimes oddball!) stringed instruments (banjolele, autoharp, Tranjo, Weissenborn guitar, etc.), and having a shop and materials with which to do so, certainly came in handy. But finding this community was the key to this project!
As I just asked Ken, any suggestions for instructional materials would be welcome!
Thanks Ken...your input made all the difference. Now if you can recommend some good instruction books (or other resources) for beginners, I'll learn how to play this thing!
Hello all. I'm pleased to report back to you...finally...success!
I basically followed all of your advice about the string height issue, remaking the bridge, etc., and I've strung it up, tuned it up, and it's sounding (and looking) pretty great to me! I'm very pleased with how it turned out. The action is still a little high, but still seems pretty playable to me, and the intonation is surprisingly good. Even the tuning pegs seem to be keeping it in tune, at least for now (it took a lot of futzing with them, but I finally got them working pretty well). See attached photos...I also made a little video of me telling about the dulcimer & it's restoration, and even me playing it a little bit so you can see what it sounds like. Here's the link to that: (if the link doesn't work for you, let me know).
Thanks again to all of you for your help over the past week or so...I couldn't have gotten it back in this good of a shape without your input and advice!
Thanks Ken. That's helpful. I'm thinking that before modifying the original wood on the tail end of the dulcimer, I may just try and string it up with all three strings up to pitch, and play it some, and see how it does. But I assume that in order to even do that I will need to replace the bridge that's now too low for the strings to even touch...right? I guess I can replace it with a bridge high enough so the strings just barely break over it (including some minimal slots). Does that make sense?
Thanks Strumelia. That's helpful. I'll be considering the lighter strings, especially now that I've identified some bow in the fretboard (see below).
Thanks Nate, for your note that I saw by email, but for some reason isn't showing up here in the forum. I'll copy it here just to keep everything in one place...you said, "First thing is first, i would recommend detuning the instrument. It is possible that the tail end is being pulled upward by the string tension. Perhaps check with a straight edge."
So I did check with a straightedge, laid on the tops of the frets, and I do note some bow in the fretboard, such that the 7th fret is below the bottom of the string by about the thickness of the nickel plus the dime on top of it (since we're using that measuring system for now!). I didn't really need to detune, since I've only put the middle string on it so far, for the purpose of making these initial adjustments to the nut & bridge height, and I haven't even tuned it up to pitch yet. So, that being said, once I do install all three strings, and tune them up to pitch, I'm wondering what that will do to my fretboard bow. Whether or not the bow changes, what are your all's thought about how to address the problem? Thanks!
Hello...me again.
SO...I've been working on the dime & nickel method of setting the height of the nut & bridge. It went well starting on the nut end, and I got the height down very close to the dime beside the first fret. I stopped there to work on the bridge, and thinking I might play it some after that, knowing I could come back and work on both the nut & bridge some more, if needed.
Anyway, when I proceeded to work on the bridge, I was gradually working my way down to the height of a nickel resting on the 7th fret, and before I realized it, I had taken it down below the height of the end of the dulcimer itself where the strings pass over it from where they are attached (see attached photo). When I realized that, I checked again with the nickel on the 7th fret, and saw that the string is still a good bit higher than the nickel (in fact, it's about the height of the dime stacked on top of the nickel). So, obviously, reducing the bridge any more at this point is useless.
Could this mean that the builder meant for the strings to be that high (the height of the end of the dulcimer), and so he would have perhaps built the bridge basically the same height at that?
Or some other explanation?
Other thoughts on what to do at this point?
Thanks!
Makes good sense, Nate. Thanks for clarifying that point. Being new to the dulcimer, I'm not sure what feel I like, but from what I've read, it seems that the overall goal is for the height to be low enough to play comfortably without buzzing, right?
One more question for you (or for anyone)...since my dulcimer is designed with the middle string to be over the frets (along with the melody string), I assume there are times when you would fret the middle string, and perhaps play chords with those two strings, right (assuming I'm playing with my fingers, and not a noter)?
Thanks to all of you for the additional advice...that all makes sense to me.
Only remaining question as I thought about it a little more is, using the dime measuring method at the first fret, it seems that its usefulness would depend partly on how high your frets are, right? Or maybe all dulcimer frets are pretty much the same height (pretty low, speaking as a guitarist & guitar builder)?
Hey, I like that approach! I've got digital calipers and all that fancy stuff, but I like this more...thanks! (But just to clarify, when you say "before the first fret" for the dime, I assume you mean not on top of the 1st fret, but on the fretboard, right before it...right?)
Hello all. And thanks again for all of your help so far.
I'm happy to report that I have restored the dulcimer to pretty good shape, basically taking it apart and putting it back together again (using Titebond glue), so it feels pretty sturdy. I was able to fix the cracks, which I have reinforced with cleats, etc. I have also gotten rid of the bizarre tuning system, and have found some wooden pegs that that I have been able to make work for now, and I have gotten just a basic set of D'Addario EJ64 strings to start with (which gives me two 0.012 gauge strings for the melody & middle, and a 0.022 for the bass). And finally, I was able to make a new nut & bridge out of some ebony that I had on hand.
SO...now I'm at the point of setting it up, and I have some questions about that. My main questions are about string spacing and nut & bridge (and string) height. I have found various opinions online about those subjects, but I thought I'd ask here for perhaps some more experienced voices.
Just a reminder, if you saw the photos I posted originally (of mine and the one sold by Wilcutt), this dulcimer is just 3 strings, and the frets do not extend all the way across the fretboard. As I look at the Wilcutt example (see attached photo), it looks to me like the melody & middle strings are spaced about as far as they can be on the available fret length, and that the middle string is slightly closer to the bass string. Is this about what I should be shooting for in terms of spacing?
And as for nut & bridge (and string) height, I've seen various opinions about what it should be, ranging from the string height at the nut being 0.015-0.030" above the fret crown at the first fret, to the saddle being 1/16" above the 1st fret and 1/8" above the 17th, etc., etc. What say you?
Thanks!
Thanks Strumelia. I thought I had replied to you the other day, but don't seem to see it here, so will repeat it here. I appreciate your helpful suggestions about string gauges, tuning pegs, etc. Now that I have basically taken apart and put back together the instrument, using Titebond glue, I feel like it's pretty sturdy and not as fragile as it had been. So I've ended up starting with just a set of D'Addario EJ64 strings (which I could get cheap and free shipping from StewMac, who I order a lot from), which gives me two 0.012 gauge strings for the melody & middle, and a 0.022 for the bass. And for the pegs, I did want to at least start with the original type of wooden friction pegs, to take it back closer to its original configuration...I may upgrade later. So I was able to find some inexpensive ones online that I was able to make work for now. Now I'm at the point of setting it up, and I have some questions about that, so I'll ask them in my next post, to everyone. Thanks for any additional advice!
Okay, great, thanks! You're certainly a wealth of info about all of this...glad we have connected. I will follow your advice and try those string gauges, and will experiment with tunings, etc. Thanks again!
Thanks Ken. Well, I don't know if that's more than I want to know, but it's more than I knew I needed to know! So, I've measured the vibrating string length of my dulcimer, and it looks like just a little over 28" (maybe 28-1/16"?). Given that, would you have any advice as to what tuning I might want to use? I'm not sure how to decide that, but would it relate in any way to my voice range (assuming that I sometimes might want to sing along with my playing)? If so, I have a fairly low range (not sure how to classify it...have never had formal voice training, etc.)...for example, I often sing the bass line in choral songs, and I often end up tuning my guitar down a full step to be able to comfortably sing certain songs (if I don't want to otherwise change keys, etc.)...does that help in any way?
As for the nut & bridge, I agree with you that the Wilcutt example definitely has metal for those two parts, with notches for the strings cut into them, etc. The nut on mine is somewhat worn and chipped, but it is definitely some kind of wood, and it looks very similar to the rest of the wood on the dulcimer (and it also has notches cut into it). (And as I think I said previously, the bridge is missing, so I'm not sure what it was made of.) I think I should be able to fashion some kind of wooden replacements out of the various varieties of hardwood scraps that I have in my shop.
As for moving to friction tuning pegs, I have found some different versions that might work, both on the International Violin Co. website, and on Amazon. I will keep looking around for options before ordering any. And I still might try and make them myself, since I would ideally like to replicate the shape of the knobs on the originals.
Thanks again!
Thanks Nate. I have various hardwoods as well as bone blanks for guitar saddles & nuts that I could maybe use. I also have the reamers, which I use for installing guitar tuners. Will do some online searching for the pegs themselves.
Thanks again!
Hey fellas. End of the day update here...
I appreciate all of you who have weighed in to help me solve this puzzle.
So, I was able to remove the tuners, by heating up the posts with a soldering iron enough to soften the glue holding the wooden knobs to the shafts, so the knobs could be removed, and then the tuning machines removed from the box. Upon inspection (and touching with the iron), that is definitely lines of solder down the plate of each tuning machine. As I've reflected on it, although I'm new to dulcimers, I find it hard to imagine that this was the original tuner installation...I bet John is right that this was a re-do by some owner of it before it came to our family (although I had thought we were the original owners). I found another Arthur Dixon dulcimer that was sold by Wilcutt Guitars in Lexington, which clearly has the traditional friction tuning pegs (see attached photo)...BTW, this one is numbered 87, whereas mine is 42), and the knob ends on the pegs are identical to the ones on my dulcimer. I can't imagine that mine is the way Mr. Dixon installed tuners on his earlier builds, and then he went back to the traditional friction pegs later. I'm thinking that some previous owner wanted to put geared tuners into it, so they cut off the knobs of the pegs, and mounted them onto the shaft of these geared tuners. And in answer to some of your comments, it appears that the gears were facing down, and the metal rods were soldered to the top side of the plates (and there were no screws used, I guess because there was no way to use screws in the plates themselves). Also, in answer to John's question, yes, the holes do go through to the other side of the tuner box, just like in the Wilcutt example (which also seems to confirm that mine was not the original tuner configuration, because the geared tuners wouldn't have required the holes on the other side of the box).
All that being said, I think I would like to restore it look more like the one sold by Wilcutt, with the traditional friction tuning pegs. Do you all have a source for such pegs? (I could possibly just make them myself, but may want to buy them.) And thanks, John, for your suggested solution...I may go that route if the traditional tuners don't work out.
Finally, any answers to my other two questions below, about strings and materials for the nut & bridge? Its pretty clear from the Wilcutt example that the nut & bridge are metal, like fret wire...although on my dulcimer, the slots are wider and deeper than typical fret slots, and the nut appears to be a thin slice of wood of some type (the bridge is missing).
Thanks again for any and all continued help!
Thanks again for your all's input.
That makes sense about the sound posts. I think I'll just try and put them back the way they were.
And I may try to restore the tuners, if I can get them out without destroying them. I did take out the one that's missing its knob, and they appear to be just a square plate, with the usual posts & gears, similar to a guitar tuner (see attached photos). And upon closer inspection, it looks like the metal rods that ran the length of the box on each side were soldered to tops of the plates of each tuner (see photos), and the rods stuck into the wood on each end of the box. Seems like a pretty crude (but creative!) way of mounting tuners! Anyway, if I can't make these work, I may try to find some tuners that are similar, and figure out some way to mount them in the tuner box securely.
Two more questions...
Thanks again!
Thank you John & Ken for your quick responses and great advice! I think I have the tools and wood that I'll need to repair it and reinforce it, etc. I guess my main challenge will be repairing/replacing the tuners, and then I have a question about the bracing.
As for the tuners, I've seen some photos of Arthur Dixon dulcimers that have simple friction tuners, but these are geared (see additional photo attached), even though they have knobs made of wood and seem to be handmade. Are there tuner sets available that would be a close replication of these? Maybe I can salvage the two remaining knobs, and carve the third one needed, and use them with some new machines? But actually, the existing tuners are working pretty well as is, in terms of turning pretty freely (even before any cleaning/lubricating), so maybe I can salvage them, and just make a new knob to replace the missing one. Also, that rod that is sticking out seems to have been what was holding the tuning machines down in the box (with apparently another rod on the other side (which is now missing). Maybe I could figure out a better way to securing these original tuners into the box. Any ideas about that?
Then, to Ken's question about the "supports" that appear to have been installed between the top & back braces...is that a common part of mountain dulcimer construction? I can see how they could offer some more rigidity, etc., but I'm not sure how necessary they are, since the fretboard makes such a stiff "brace" holding everything together, right? I could certainly replace them, if that makes sense (one is missing, which I would have to replace).
Any other thoughts/advice/referrals?
Thanks much!
I have a 1962 Arthur Dixon mountain dulcimer, from Whitesburg, KY, that has been in my family since it was built. It has a fair amount of cracks and other damage, and am hoping to restore it to playing condition. Although I've restored guitars and other stringed instruments, this is my first attempt at restoring a mountain dulcimer, so I need some advice, and possibly some parts. I will attach some photos here. Anybody out there who could help? Thanks!
