Forum Activity for @greg-gunner

Stanley Hicks / David Love dulcimer

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Another issue in making such a chart would be defining what constitutes a dulcimer builder.  In some families nearly every son either assisted his father in dulcimer making or made a single dulcimer before losing interest.  Other dulcimer makers made multiple dulcimers and taught others how to build the instruments.

The lack of surviving instruments attributed to those recalled in oral history as dulcimer builders makes one question who did and did not build dulcimers.  The Hicks family is a good example.  Several members of the Hicks family were said to have made dulcimers: Ben Hicks, Roby Hicks, Nathan Hicks, Stanley Hicks, Floyd Hicks, Windsor Canada Hicks, James Brownlow Hicks, Edd Presnell, and Frank Proffitt.

But Ben Hicks had two sons: Nathan Hicks and Samuel Hicks.  Nathan Hicks was clearly a dulcimer builder, but what about his brother, Samuel Hicks.  Did he learn how to make dulcimers?  

There is also some question as to who made the dulcimers sold by Nathan in the 1930s and 1940s.  Obviously, Nathan made most of the dulcimers attributed to him.  But oral history suggests that his father, Ben Hicks; his uncle, Roby Hicks, his first cousin, Windsor Canada Hicks, and possibly others helped him fulfill orders.

The evidence suggests the number of dulcimer builders making more than a handful of instruments was quite small.  And the number of surviving instruments can be attributed to a small number of builders.  But there were many more dulcimer builders who built only a single or limited number of dulcimers.

Stanley Hicks / David Love dulcimer

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I've got the relationships for most of the Watauga County, NC dulcimer makers, but there are so many marriages of first cousins, the chart becomes too complex as the same names repeat in multiple family surnames.  All of the well-known names can be traced through marriage or birth to the family of James Presnell and Susan Hartzel Benfield.  Suffice to say, all the Presnells, Hicks, Glenns, Harmons, and even a number of Proffitts and Testers are related in some way.

Due to the large number of names it would take multiple charts to even begin a complete listing.  And that's just for the NC dulcimer makers.

Fret necessary?

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Chord playing does not require a 6+ fret.  Nor does it require D-A-D tuning (or other 1-5-8 tuning).   If you choose to play chord-melody style, you can do it without the 6+ fret.  And you can do it out of D-A-A (or other 1-5-5 tuning).  The use of D-A-D tuning and its association with chord-melody style is a matter of choice, not necessity. 

Stanley Hicks / David Love dulcimer

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In a previous post in this thread, I incorrectly stated a family connection between David Love and brothers Smith Oliver and Millard Oliver.  I have since discovered that David Love was the grandson of General Miles Love, who I had erroneously identified as being directly related to the Oliver's.  The half-brother of the Oliver's was Silas Jackson McGuire, not General Miles Love.

However, David Love's grandfather, General Miles Love, did have a direct connection to the Beech Mountain dulcimer tradition.  He was the son of Polly Presnell and his connection to the Beech Mountain dulcimer tradition was through Polly Presnell's son, Roosevelt Vance Presnell, and grandson, James Miles Presnell.  Polly Presnell, incidentally, was the younger sister of Beech Mountain dulcimer maker, Eli Taylor Presnell.  And General Miles Love and Roosevelt Vance Presnell were brothers.

Roosevelt Vance Presnell and his son, James Miles Presnell, were Beech Mountain neighbors of the Hicks family.  Their dulcimers follow the same pattern as dulcimers made by Leonard and Clifford Glenn.

updated by @greg-gunner: 08/23/22 06:12:17AM

Making a noter

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RoyB,

I'm glad the turkey call striker dowels are working out for you.   I left some at 5 1/2 inches long and cut some others down to 3 or 4 inches in length.

Another unique source of noters intended for other purposes is to buy river cane arrow shafts on E-Bay.  They come in lengths suitable for making arrows, but can be cut to shorter lengths as needed.

A final possibility is to  use Spanish cane cut to length.  Spanish cane is the material used to make drone reeds for various types of bagpipes.  It can be purchased in varying diameters to suit the player's needs and cut to length.

Making a noter

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Search on E-Bay for "turkey call striker dowels".  They are available in a variety of hardwoods, can be purchased pre-rounded, and cost about $10.00 for ten dowels - each dowel is about 5-6 inches long.

Does a 2001 McSpadden Ginger have a 'solid' soundboard?

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When the McSpadden's owned and operated McSpadden Dulcimers, the solid soundboard was offered as an option.  When Jim Woods purchased McSpadden Dulcimers the solid soundboard became a standard feature on all their dulcimers.  I don't know the exact dates, but there would be two dates: 

Date One - McSpaddens offered the solid soundboard option for the first time.

Date Two - Jim Woods made the solid soundboard a standard feature of all McSpadden dulcimers.

Jim Woods purchased McSpadden dulcimers in 2001, so the switch to the solid soundboard on all instruments would have occurred sometime around 2001-2002.

updated by @greg-gunner: 08/11/22 01:21:18PM

Tuning peg replacement question

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I've been making larger loops using KenL's method for many years now, and it works just fine when the tail end knob or screw head is too large for the standard loop to fit.  The old-timers always had a way.

Tuning peg replacement question

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For wooden pegs that are slipping under tension, I agree with Lisa that the Original Ardsley Peg Drops are the way to go.

However, if your pegs are stuck and difficult to turn, a second product comes in handy.  W.E. Hill Peg Composition helps to lubricate the shaft of the peg so it will tune smoothly.  The peg compound comes in a small tube and it looks like a tube  of chapstick. I find the Hill Peg Composition very good for restoring old pegs to usability.  If you have an old peg that has "frozen" in position, you will first need to tap it back out of the peghead with a small hammer.  The Hill Peg Compound can then be rubbed onto the peg shaft before re-inserting the peg into the peghole.

So for slipping pegs you want the peg drops.  But for sticking pegs you want a tube of the Hill peg compound.

Four string spacing pros and cons?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Why not give yourself both options.  As Dusty Turtle has pointed out, many builders are slotting the nut and bridge to allow either four equidistant string spacing or the double melody string option.  So there's no need to limit yourself to one of the options.  You can have both if you want them.

With that being said, I prefer a three string instrument for the majority of my playing.  I do, however, own a couple of four string dulcimers that are slotted for both four string equidistant spacing or four string double melody spacing.  The extra bridge and nut slots are barely noticeable.

Naomi Judd Passes Away

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Rest in peace Naomi, and condolences to Ashley and Winona.  

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Teddy, Welcome to FOTMD.  It sounds like you have successfully navigated your way through a serious illness.  Playing the mountain dulcimer is very therapeutic.  I have dealt with colon cancer on an ongoing basis since 2010.  The mountain dulcimer has helped me maintain a positive attitude.  

Similar to you I once played the bagpipes, although, in my case, my instrument was the Irish uilleann pipes.  Multiple surgeries have left me unable to wear the belt holding the bellows in place, so I returned to the mountain dulcimer, and it didn't disappoint.  My mountain dulcimers have provided me with many years of enjoyment.  I'm sure your dulcimer will do the same for you.

A bonus is the type of people drawn to the mountain dulcimer.  You will not meet a friendlier bunch of people.  Enjoy your instrument and don't hesitate to ask for help if and when it's needed.  FOTMD is a warm welcoming group, we are pleased you have chosen to join us.

Stanley Hicks / David Love dulcimer

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Most of the dulcimer makers in Watauga County, NC can be tied together in some manner.  The interconnections through a common practice of the late 19th and early 20 centuries (marriage of first cousins) makes family ties a complex web of who's related to who.  I'd estimate that 90-95% of Watauga County's dulcimer makers can be traced back to the common ancestors James Andrew Presnell and Susan Hartzel Benfield.  They had at least nine known children.  The descendants of those nine children make up the bulk of Watauga County's known dulcimer makers, including all the Hicks, Presnells, Wards, Glenns, Harmons, Testers, Proffitts, etc.  The dulcimer traditions of Watauga County, NC are truly a family tradition.

updated by @greg-gunner: 04/29/22 10:08:45AM

Stanley Hicks / David Love dulcimer

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David Love's full name was Joe "David" Love.  Like many mountaineers he used his middle name as his given name.  He learned dulcimer and banjo making from Tom "Stanley" Hicks, more commonly known as just Stanley Hicks.  The dulcimer containing maker labels for both was very likely a collaboration between the two men.  David Love was a skilled woodworker, one who made dulcimers, banjos, and guitars, as well as wooden toys.  He sold his handmade crafts through a small shop at his home.

David Love's father, Edward Miles Love, was the son of General Miles Love, who was the half brother of Millard Colfax Oliver and Smith Talbert Oliver, two names frequently mentioned when discussing the origins of the Beech Mountain dulcimer traditions.

General Miles Love was known as an abusive husband and father.  He was shot and killed by his father-in-law and brother-in-law in 1932.  The two Presnell men were defending the wife of General Miles Love, Matilda Mae Presnell, and her children from a drunk and angry General Miles Love.

There is no evidence to suggest a dulcimer connection between David Love and his grandfather's half brothers, Millard and Smith Oliver.  The available evidence suggests collaboration and possible mentorship between Stanley Hicks and David Love.

Fret addition?

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Think of the "Bum" strum as a quarter note.  The "Ditty" strum is two eighth notes.  So when Ken says he's a syllable strummer, he is using the "Bum" strum for a single syllable of a quarter note duration and the "Ditty" strum for two syllables of an eighth note duration each.  

To play two eighth notes (double syllable) in the same amount of time as one quarter note the strings are strummed on both the outward and inward movement of the pick.  For the quarter note (single syllable), the strings need only be strummed on the outward motion of the pick.

Like Ken has stated, strumming well is not a matter of incessantly repeating a pattern, but rather matching a tool box of strums to the melody as reflected in the way the syllables fall in relation to each other.  Further complicating the matter are "fill notes", which can be used to extend the duration of notes longer than quarter notes.

Fret addition?

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As KenH has already told you, strumming in both directions is not mandatory.  However, being able to strum in either direction is a great skill to have in your toolbox.  Your strumming hand creates the rhythm, and strumming is a combination of out and in strums.  Begin slowly strumming in one direction only (Bum Strum).  When you can do this without difficulty, strum out and in and strike the strings on both the out and in strum (Ditty Strum).  Then alternate the two strums (Bum-Ditty Strum).  Finally, try different combinations of the Bum and Ditty strums to match the rhythm of the time signature.

4/4 Time

Bum - Ditty - Bum - Ditty etc.

Bum - Bum - Ditty - Ditty etc.

Bum - Ditty - Ditty - Bum etc.

and so forth

3/4 Time

Bum - Bum - Bum etc.

Bum - Ditty - Ditty etc.

Bum - Ditty - Bum etc.

and so forth

The key is to not keep repeating the same pattern over and over, but rather to freely change the pattern within the song to create variety and interest.

Wanted Lisa Glenn Thompson's Dulcimer Instruction Book

FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

In the 1990s Clifford Glenn's daughter, Lisa Glenn Thompson, self-published an instruction booklet for the mountain dulcimer.  If anyone has a copy they are willing to sell, I am interested in obtaining a copy.  Alternately, if you have a copy that you don't wish to sell perhaps you'd be willing to make a xerox copy for me.  If you are able to help or wish to sell your copy of the instruction book, you can reach me by e-mail at:

gregory52gunner@gmail.com 

Strings for banjammer

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Unless the vibrating string length is excessively short or extremely long you should be able to use standard dulcimer strings:

Melody Strings = .010 -.014

Middle String = .012-.014

Bass String = wound .022-.024

If you plan on using hammer on and pull offs, then a lighter gauge will have more flexibility and be easier on the fingers.

Locating the bridge is not too difficult.  Measure the distance from nut to 7th fret.  The distance from the 7th fret to the bridge should be approximately that same distance.  If the notes go flat as you ascend the scale (fretboard) move the bridge a little closer towards the nut (small increments).  If the notes go sharp as you ascend the scale (fretboard) move the bridge slightly farther away from the nut.  Once you have located the bridge to get decent intonation all the way up the fretboard, mark the bridge location on the banjo head with a pencil.  This will enable you to locate the bridge quickly in the future.

And, as you have already been advised, slanting the bridge slightly will sometimes improve intonation on the middle and bass strings.

Looking for a Small Dulcimer

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Check out Ron Ewing's baritone dulcimette.

Looking for a Small Dulcimer

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Ron Ewing makes finely crafted instruments in a variety of shapes and sizes.  His dulcimers are worth a closer look.

Wormy Chestnut for dulcimers - Clifford Glenn

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Interesting dulcimore for sure.  I wasn't aware of the fact the Glenns may have helped Stanley Hicks fill orders for dulcimers.

The Glenns apparently made several dulcimer models:

1. A Teardrop Model (1950s)

2. Their Standard North Carolina Model (Based on a dulcimer made by Leonard Glenn's grandfather, Eli Taylor Presnell, in the 1880s.)

3. Their Standard Kentucky Model ( Based on one of Homer Ledford's or Jethro Amburgey's dulcimers.)

4. A Nathan Hicks Model (Based on a Nathan Hicks dulcimer taken to Leonard Glenn by Nathan's son, Lewis Hicks, with a request for two copies for Hicks family members.)  This pattern was used to make dulcimers for Frank Proffitt.

The dulcimer in the picture appears to be made in pattern 3, the Standard Kentucky model.  It would be interesting to know the explanation for the Stanley Hicks label in the interior.  If I had to guess I would say Stanley saw an economic opportunity at a time when he was not yet building the instruments commercially.  Stanley was known as an entertainer and often had to be talked into building an instrument.

Incidentally, Paul Dolce ("Slingerland") purchased all of the Glenn dulcimer patterns from Clifford Glenn after he retired from actively making the instruments.

updated by @greg-gunner: 02/21/22 06:26:25AM

Wormy Chestnut for dulcimers - Clifford Glenn

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Richard, I'm still looking for a Stanley Hicks dulcimer at a reasonable price.

Regarding the traditional dulcimer builders on TTAD, the list begins with Bobby Ratliff, Dan Cox, and John Knopf.

Bobby builds traditional Virginia style dulcimers and a replica of the McKinley Craft hourglass.

Dan can build just about anything you want.  His reproduction dulcimers include the Praetorius scheitholt, the 1608 hommel, a Ben Hicks dulcimer, a Frank Linney Glenn dulcimer, a dulcimer based upon a picture contained in the L. Allen Smith book, and a traditional style dulcimer of his own design based on historic dulcimers.

John Knopf builds excellent reproductions of the Uncle Ed Thomas dulcimer, the Will Singleton dulcimer, various Russell and Melton dulcimers, and the 19th century Tennessee Music boxes.

If you've got a traditional dulcimer in mind, one of the three builders above can probably make your dream a reality.

In addition, TTAD members Ken Hulme and Ken Longfield have been known to build traditional instruments if asked.

updated by @greg-gunner: 02/20/22 08:59:17PM

Wormy Chestnut for dulcimers - Clifford Glenn

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Most of the dulcimer builders who grew up in the tradition tuned their instruments for just intonation to sweeten the blending of the melody and drones.  Modern dulcimer makers use a different intonation (equal temperament) which blends more readily into triads (3-note chords) to facilitate modern chord melody styles.

The older, traditional "just intonation" gives the most traditional dulcimer sound with the bass and middle drone strings ringing out a constant 1-5 drone against the changing melody.  Leonard and Clifford Genn, Edd Presnell, Homer Ledford, A.W. Jeffreys, and a few others continued to use the just tempered scale, and their instruments were made with the drones in mind.

To get one of those sweet sounding "just intonation" instruments like the Glenns made, you need to find one of their instruments in the used marketplace or purchase an instrument from one of a handful of traditional builders.  You will find them in the The Traditional Appalachian Dulcimer (TTAD) forum.  They build beautiful traditional dulcimers based on the tried and true techniques of the Glenns and others.

Wormy Chestnut for dulcimers - Clifford Glenn

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Regarding string gauges to use on a Clifford Glenn dulcimer, I have found that standard string sets sold by GHS or other manufacturers will work just fine for D-A-A tuning.  Bass = .020-.022, Middle = .012, Melody = .012.

If you have trouble with peg slippage in D-A-A tuning, lowering the tuning one whole step to C-G-G may solve the problem.

If you want to use D-A-d tuning, I'd recommend a string gauge of .011 or .010 for the melody string(s).

Wormy Chestnut for dulcimers - Clifford Glenn

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To loosen the pegs try tapping them lightly on the end (tip) of the peg shaft that protrudes through the peg hole.   The idea is to reverse the process used when tuning wooden pegs.  To get the peg to hold its tuning we force it into the peg hole to create more friction.  To "unstick" the peg we tap it back out from the opposite side.

For pegs that keep slipping, you can use a product called Ardsley Peg Drop Compound.  Usually a single drop on the area of the shaft that rests inside the peg hole is all that's needed.

For pegs that are sticking you can use a product called W.E. Hill Peg Compound.  It comes in a tube very similar to a tube of chapstick in appearance.  Remove the string, rub some of the W.E. Hill Compound on the shaft, and reinsert the peg into the peg hole.  Test the peg to make sure it is no longer sticking, restring, and you are ready to go.

Both products (or something similar) can be purchased online or directly from a music store that sells and services violins.

If you play a dulcimer with wooden pegs, these two products should be part of your dulcimer maintenance kit along with wire cutters, fingerboard oil, etc.

updated by @greg-gunner: 02/20/22 06:14:30AM

Black Rose Dulcimer by Bill Todd

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The second or Galax false bottom is nothing more than a permanently attached "possum board" with the purpose of letting the bottom of the soundbox freedom to resonate.  It goes by several names, and it is most common in Galax style instruments.

The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

One drawback to using string instruments in large groups of children is getting past issues of tuning multiple instruments quickly.  Imagine trying to tune 30 dulcimers before everyone is "in-tune".  The typical elementary music class is about 30 minutes long.  Trying to tune an instrument in a noisy room can be extremely difficulty.  Trying to tune 30 dulcimers in a  room of 30 children is nearly impossible.

Add the tuning issue to the cost of purchasing and maintaining multiple dulcimers helps to explain why the recorder is the choice of most schools.  It is much less costly and is ready to play right out of its pouch.

updated by @greg-gunner: 07/25/21 06:48:40PM

DAA on a McSpadden

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Yes, you can play your McSpadden in D-A-A without changing the bridge.  The compensated bridge improves intonation slightly, but it is not essential.  In fact. most dulcimers do not have a compensated bridge.

Wanted Lisa Glenn Thompson's Dulcimer Instruction Book

FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

I have begun to collect dulcimers and related items associated with Watauga County, NC.  I am interested in obtaining a copy of the dulcimer instruction booklet published and sold by Lisa Glenn Thompson,,the daughter of Clifford Glenn.  Lisa was selling her instruction book through Dulcimer Players News in the 1990s for $11.00,  if I'm not mistaken.  Contact me if you have one to sell.

Greg Gunner

gregory52gunner@gmail.com 

Do you feel limited by the diatonic scale?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Suffice to say, the diatonic scale fits the diatonic fretboard just fine.  If you want to play notes not found in the diatonic scale you can try an alternate tuning or add frets.  There is no "right" way to play the dulcimer.  Many dulcimer players are satisfied with a basic diatonic scale without additional frets.  If you want or need more notes, try an alternate tuning or add some frets.  Neither choice is more correct than the other.

Changing setup from left to right handed

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If my MMD is typical of David McKinney's work, his nut and bridge should be able to be rotated 180 degrees to convert a left-handed set-up to a right-handed set-up. Neither the nut nor the bridge has been modified for intonation purposes. The nut has a flat top with slots for the strings. The bridge rises to a peak where the strings pass through the string slots. Rotating both 180 degrees should not change the VSL.

Of course, my experience in playing a MMD is limited to the single instrument that I purchased used. However, both nut and bridge appear to be original to the instrument. If my instrument is representative of all MMD, there is no reason the nut and bridge should need modification. Simply rotate both nut and bridge so the bass string slot is reversed.

Carved headstock and end piece.Maker?

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After taking a second look, it appears that I mistook the tail end for the peghead. Like John K. states , you can't tell if it's coming or going.

So it looks like I've taken two posts to say "I haven't the foggiest idea."

Carved headstock and end piece.Maker?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I don't recognize the peghead shape, but Kerry Rapp in Myerstown, PA runs the strings through holes in the peghead and attaches them to the tuning peg shafts on the underside of the peghead. It looks like this dulcimer does the same. Rapp sells some dulcimers on Etsy under the name Divergent Lutherie. Is there any kind of identification mark. Rapp's typically have a "DL" stamped in the strum hollow area. However, in all honesty, I haven't a clue as to who made your dulcimer. Probably a one-off by someone unknown.

Please tell me your very favorite love song...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

As far as a traditional song that I do play on the dulcimer, it's hard to beat the Child ballad, "Barbara Allen". I prefer the Madison County, NC version sung by the family of Sheila Kay Adams

Please tell me your very favorite love song...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I began listening to music seriously in the 1960s. The song that introduced me to the beauty of acoustic music was "Suite Judy Blue Eyes", Stephen Stills' expression of love for folksinger Judy Collins.

Tips what do you bring when traveling with your dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Screwdriver for Tightening Tuning Pegs
Wire Cutters for Trimming Excess String

The EverythingDulcimer website has returned. Whooopie!!!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thank you for the correction, Lisa. Perhaps we need a chronology of online dulcimer discussion forums.

Was the Sweet Music Index that Jason started the first? Followed by Bruce Ford's Everything Dulcimer site? Or was it Lisa's (Strumelia's) FOTMD that came next? Now we have Bobby's TTAD (The Traditional Appalachian Dulcimer) and the new Everything Dulcimer site, not to mention the Everything Dulcimer Facebook group.
What is the correct sequence of these groups and what have I missed?

The EverythingDulcimer website has returned. Whooopie!!!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Please remember, Bruce Ford provided a great service for all Appalachian dulcimer players. But he did not create/originate Everything Dulcimer. If I remember correctly ED was created by "Jason (?)" Bruce Ford stepped forward when someone was needed to keep the website up and running, and we should all be thankful that he did.
The new website moderator should be given every opportunity to get ED back up and running.

What's your favorite tune or dulcimer to play this month?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I've been playing some old ballads on my just intonation hogfiddle built by our very own Bobby Ratliff. There's something special about just intonation and 1-5-5 tunings. And Bobby knows how to fret them just right.

Rest in peace, Maddie MacNeil

OFF TOPIC discussions

Sad news. Maddie was a treasure.