Forum Activity for @folkfan

Favorite accessories to go with MD

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks for posting the possum board. I'd never seen one close up before. Sort of looks like the end of an ironing board, which also makes a handy stand for playing an MD on. razyn said:

But the term "possum board" historically refers to a pelt stretcher. Also works for cats, btw, or any similar sized critter, the hide of which one wants to use. For several of the appropriate uses, verses of the song "Ground Hog" are informative. Here is an actual possum board; some dulcimer player realized long ago that it was also an acoustically useful accessory.

http://www.museumofappalachia.org/veWebsite/exhibit1/e10342a.htm

Favorite accessories to go with MD

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

And my possum boards have a type of rubber matting on the back which keeps them in my lap, but doesn't come in contact with the instrument. Each one has movable lifts which can adjust to the shape of the instrument by sliding back and forth. I usually don't have to do this as my instruments are generally all about the same length. But if I got a baby dulcimer the possum boards would hold that size equally well, and add volume. Robin Thompson said:

Rosemary,
A dulcimer rests on a possum board for play, allowing the back of the dulcimer to vibrate with greater freedom, thus producing greater volume.

One of my favorite dulcimer accessories is a section of rubber bath mat that's placed on the lap under the dulcimer. Since I don't usually use a strap on my instrument, I like the mat for keeping the instrument from sliding onto the floor. :)

Favorite accessories to go with MD

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I thought this would fit in this category best. What is or are your favorite accessory or accessories to go with your mountain dulcimer. Here's a photo of mine. 2 types of possum boards, one has an extending leg, and a low picking chair so I don't have to sit with my legs bent and on tip toe to keep my lap flat

I worry every time I try to add a photo. ;-)
updated by @folkfan: 10/27/19 12:02:25PM

Striking just the melody notes is how I play with a striker, and if I lift my hand and angle downward with just the tip I can even pick up the lower notes I need on certain songs. I've done "Peat Bog Soldier" in Aeolian and have to pick up a 0 fret on the middle string. This is a song that works well will a strong marching beat. Dona, Dona, also in Aeolian, is another one. Strumelia said:

Check it out, it's a wonderful and traditional playing technique, here demonstrated on a French Epinette des Vosges..... :)

Never be embarrassed to talk about how you play or if you've tried something different. You never know when that something you did, is just what someone else would benefit from. We can all listen and learn from each other. And I bet you did sound great. Shas Cho said:

Ha!
I was playing this way on Christmas night
and my family thought it sounded great.
So did I, and it was fun,
but I would have been embarrassed to mention it here...

folkfan said:

How about using a striker to beat the notes out with your right hand rather than a pick.

How about using a striker to beat the notes out with your right hand rather than a pick. March type songs, or songs like the Little Drummer Boy are interesting done this way. A chopstick is what I usually use. Some people use hammer dulcimer hammers. I strike just the melody line for a clear bell like tone.

400 members coming up..

OFF TOPIC discussions

What recipe do you use. There is one I love that stuffs the caps with several different cheeses, bread crumbs and crisp bacon bits. Serve hot from the broiler. Andy Huffman said:

if I eat all this food then I am going to keep growing! :)

stuffed mushroom caps anyone?

400 members coming up..

OFF TOPIC discussions

Potato latkes with sour cream and apple sauce, and just plain salt and pepper, in case you like them plain the way I do.

A Very Merry Christmas to all my New Friends

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The Best of the Season and a Happy and Healthy New Year to everyone.

Bobby McFerrin: The power of the pentatonic scale

OFF TOPIC discussions

It wasn't until he hit the third note that I heard a second note. The first two are just too close together for them to really register a difference. Perhaps if he'd use another sound than BAH the second BAH would have changed for me.

The looping through the ball does work, but if you have one of the dulcimers that was made using a dowel for a string holder, the dowel can get rather crowded with 4 ball ends. This is especially true when you break a string and want to make a quick change. You may have to really work to figure out which string needs to be cut off, or you'll end up with 5 balls on that peg.Many makers use metal pegs that are good for holding both ball and loop end strings. You might even be able to find a luthier who could put those on for you if you have large headed nails for string holders that the loop won't fit over. Robin Clark said:

That "loop through the ball" system just sounds way too simple a solution to work !!!! - I've must give it try as it would make life so much easier! My only concern (untested) would be how well the string would stabalise and hold pitch. But if it does work - well, problem solved!

I've tried lots of different methods of removing the balls - twisting, cutting, smashing and not had much success. The quickest has been to simply cut the ball off and re-wind a loop (then put a plaster over the holes in my fingers!)

Wray said:

Have you tried inserting the string end through the ball to make a loop end (of sorts) out of a ball end string?
Also, if you unwind the string just a smidge you can take the ball out without having to cut the ball.You might have to hold the string above the ball very lightly with a pair of needle nose pliers to be able to unwind it. It only takes a turn or two.

If you shop on line "Just Strings" has loop end strings in almost all gauges. You don't have to buy set packs of Dulcimer strings.
updated by @folkfan: 02/12/16 02:45:15PM

Thanksgiving: Old Blue

OFF TOPIC discussions

Sorry to hear about your friend and companion passing away. But at least it was a peaceful end, and she was at home with you when she had to go.

I didn't mean to say that other types or sounds of music that use the core of tunes and ballads that are at the heart of "Old Time Music" are themselves "Old Time Music". As you point out Bluegrass is based on in part on the music core of "Old Time" , but doesn't have the same sound as "Old Time"I was simply trying to say that "Old Time" music has had a basic core of songs to develop on and through the years has developed a special sound that is "Old Time" music. In effect it is it's own genre now. But the tunes and music that are at the core of "Old Time" aren't just played or sung by "Old Time musicians", they have a more general audience.Here's how I'd want my Barbara Allen to sound, only not in a man's voice. This has the tonal quality that I would try to achieve if I could. I melt when I hear this, but I've always have love the rolling tones of someone like Mario Lanza, or Nelson Eddy. Yummy voices

The New Christy Minstrels do a marvelous version of Barbara Allen too, but I wouldn't call it "Old Time Music" when they sing it. It doesn't have the sounds or tones, and rhythms that I've come to associate with "Old Time Music"

It just isn't the same as the young girl's singing of it in "Songcatcher".Strumelia said:I have a different view on it. After all, a good chunk of Bluegrass music is from old-time songs, tunes, and ballads but played in a more modern bluegrass style. I don't think of it as 'old-time' music then- it's then bluegrass music, derived from old-time music sources. If someone played Shady Grove in Latin salsa style, it wouldn't be old-time music. And it wouldn't be bluegrass then either.Thus, I think of old-time music as being both the material (due to its age and other very distinctive characteristics) and the style in which it is played. It certainly can be a shadowy defining line between things sometimes though. Sometimes things are hybrids of two styles or two sources, etc.

Carson, I'm going to say that "Old Time Music" is definitely more that just a core of basic tunes and songs. It is by this time developed into a genre of music with it's own sound coming from a basic cultural core but spiced with a variety of other cultures musical ingredients.You can play the core of music without the sound that is now associated with "Old Time Music"Pretty Saro is an old song. Here's Iris DeMent doing it in what I think of as an "Old Time Music" sound

And this is more the way I do it. It has more of a lilt Which doesn't mean that it's better, but just a different style to the same song.

Carson Turner said:

I'm a huge fan of Shady Grove and several style permutations of that tune. It just speaks to me for some reason.

The question I'd toss back is whether Old Time music is a core collection of songs from a period as opposed to a style of rendering tunes of any period? I play Old Time (as well as several variations) and tend to think it's more a performing aesthetic than a particular list of tunes.

Just my thought though. A friend and I do a pretty good If You Seek Amy in Old Time style that gets more than a few raised eyebrows. I'm betting that many of what we call bluegrass tunes can be traced back to pre-bluegrass and into Old Time -- and possibly further back into vernacular folk styles.

No disagreement here on the various influences other cultures other than English, Irish, and Scottish have had on "Old Time Music". Lomax's book on the Folk Songs of North America gives a nice maps showing the areas of influence you mentioned.My comment was made merely to clarify why I have to qualify that I sing old songs but not Old Time music. Since I listen mostly to Irish, and Scottish singers, I come more from a background of the Irish sessions, rather than from jams on pickin' porches in the hollers of the Appalachian Mountain. Though my father was the first one in his family born outside of WV since the families settled in the area before the Revolution, his music was Glenn Miller, and Benny Goodman. etc.Most of the tunes and songs from the Smith/MacNeil book are related to the Child ballads , but they give the American version of the tune as it was sung at various spots along the Wilderness Road. It's an interesting book, especially if someone is interested in learning a bit of history about the songs as well as the development of the country in the early days of settlement.And I get caught on the Scottish Skip quite a bit, at least that's what I call that "hop" the rhythm can sometimes take. Strumelia said:

Interesting reminder, Folkfan!
Let's keep in mind that early American music was influenced by various other ethnicities and cultures besides English, Irish, and Scottish. In old-time music one can hear the definite influence of African rhythm in particular, and there were also influences of the French, Native Americans, Scandinavian, Spanish, German, etc etc.... But the African influence is clearly there, with rhythm (especially as contributed with clawhammer/gourd banjo and tambourine/bones), also as early blues scales (applied to both the instrumental music and singing).I do know that as an 'american old-time' musician, I have a terrible time trying to play along in Irish sessions. Even if the tune is one I already play in old-time style...the rhythm is so different, I mostly fail! The rhythm difference really trips me up- to me it's almost like trying to write on a paper while looking at it in the mirror. =8-o

I was just going through Songs and Tunes of the Wilderness Road by Smith and MacNeil which might have a clue as to why I say I sing old songs, but not old time songs. One paragraph gives a description of the difference between old Appalachian music and the music of Great Britain. It says "five tone and six-tone folk tunes are rare among the tunes that have been field collected in Great Britain. Somewhere between Great Britain and the Cumberland Ford, these tunes became, you could perhaps say, more primitive, without declining the least bit in beauty or power--perhaps , in some instances, even gaining."English and American folk songs tend to be in one of the 4 common modal scales, but old Appalachian tunes tend to use what are called "gapped scales" such as the hexatonic scale that leaves out 1 note, and even more tunes leave out 2 notes and are pentatonic.I came to folk music and ballads from listening to English, Irish, and Scottish singers mostly, not American. Many of the books that I tab from are published in the British Isles. No wonder my music is slightly different in singing style.

Bill, Here's a site that has a "description" of Old Time Music. http://www.oldtimemusic.com/ and from what it describes, I definitely don't qualify as an old time music player in that I make no attempt to capture the flavor of the mountain culture that spawned the music style. I simply sing old songs. Occasionally, on some of the Scottish songs, I have to pronounce the words in a Scottish way in order that the rhythm or rhyme of a song works. Hame instead of home for example. My Ain Folk rather than My Own Folk. But other than that, I sing with my Mid-Western accent in as natural a voice as I can use. Fortunately for the world, I sing in private. heheheheheee Bill Davenport said:

Thanks folkfan.
I can't answer my own question. I always hear about Old Time Music. 1920's era music? Bill Monroe with his mother before he "founded" bluegrass. I've read so many things, I'm just not sure myself.
It's hard to "peg" an old time tune. That's why I put this out there.
Jump in anybody.

Hi Bill, Your question is a good one, but not one that I can really answer. I play a lot of old songs and ballads, Really old songs, but I don't play "Old Time Music". I don't play in the style that I understand "Old Time Music" has.Some of my songs would be: Barbara Allen, Eileen Aroon, Pretty Saro, The Riddle Song, Rue, Paper of Pins, Greensleeves, The False Knight on the Road, At the Foot of Yonders Mountain and a lot of songs from Scotland, like An Eriskay Love Lilt, Westering Home, Sound the Piobroch, Come By the Hills, Turn Ye To Me, MacPherson's Lament, Mairi's Wedding, and The Mingulay Boat Song. Hold old some of these are I really don't know.

Two mode/tuning/notation questions.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

The use of 1-5-5, 1-5-8, 1-5-7 etc to denote the scale patterns for the modes was because the bass and middle string were always tuned to the drone while the melody string was tuned to put the starting note of the scale at the correct fret. So DAA# or Bb would be the standard way to write the notation for the Locrian mode when you only use the 6th fret. It puts the starting note of the scale at the 2nd fret. No matter what key you are using.However is you do have a 6+ fret and use it and try DAE for Locrian with scale starting at the 6+fret. That's a modern twist on things.As to the A drone, remember that the Locrian mode is considered the most discordant of the modes. It is considered more of an experimental or theoretical mode than a true playing mode which is why there is so little music written for it. In other words it's the Devil's Mode and it sounds awful which is how it is suppose to sound ;-) Again, however, if there are certain strums for drones like the DAA# just don't hit the DA drones but just the A#.Personally Locrian is so discordant and disagreeable to my ear that I never use it. But I don't enjoy badly tuned bagpipes either, ;-) 8-)

John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

OFF TOPIC discussions

The Civil War or the War Between the States and all that led up to it are definitely watershed events in our history which should be recognized. Many horrible things happened during that time and they were recorded in the music from the period. We need to remember the time and honor the people that lived through it and what better way than to sing and play the music they wrote, in order to let them speak again.

That's great news. Warren May certainly deserves the honor his state has conferred upon him.

Well, I think I can handle your 1st question about labeled in the Key of D. Look at the note that the tune resolves in. If it's a 3 then play DAA, if it's a 0 then play the tune in DAd. The Ionian scale pattern traditionally began on the 3rd fret of the diatonic dulcimer, so the d you would need to start your scale would be found at the 3rd fret. With a true Mixolydian mode tune the scale pattern starts at the open string or 0. If, however, your dulcimer has a 6+ fret, you can start the Ionian mode pattern at 0 as well. If a tune in Ionian uses the 9th fret in DAA, you'd use the 6+ starting the scale at 0. If the tune doesn't use the 9th fret in DAA, then it doesn't matter about the 6+, you can play the tune from 0 on a strictly diatonic dulcimer anyway. The lower notes of the tune (below 3 in DAA) will have to be played on the middle string.Question 2. Tuning the instrument to itself. Tune the bass string to a pleasant note, not too tight, or mushy so that it buzzes. Bounce up and down on the string, does it still vibrate well, can you fret it with out too much pressure. This will become your Open string note or Key note (call it the key of X for unknown, if you like). Go to the 4th fret and sound that note, then tune the other strings to it. Now in tuning the other strings you will need to get a feel for when you are going too high or tight. The string starts resisting going up (you turn the gear but the note doesn't seem to want to change), it doesn't vibrate as freely, it becomes too tight to press down on. If these things start to happen, down tune immediately or BOING is the next thing that will happen. Years ago when my hearing was better, I'd try for DAA and usually end up with C#G#G# if I wasn't using a tuner. I've learned to keep extra 9 volt batteries on hand at all times now, as I tend to forget to turn my tuners off. :-( And as to changing strings, if you want to change from one key to another and depending on how sensitive your hearing is will probably determine if you want to change strings. I use a guage that I can go from CGG to DAA with no problem, but DAd is stretching it. And that is what happens when you change keys frequently, your strings more quickly lose their ability to hold the notes. They simply wear out faster. Some individuals will swear that they hear a difference in the sound of DAd and DAA, I don't. And they prefer different gauges for those note changes.Question 3 the final d in DAd indicates that it is an octave higher. Yes, you are correct.

Vicki, it sounds as if you picked a good site for playing in public. Congratulations. Vicki Miles said:

Hi Andy...Yes, it was a rails to trail. It is the section that goes thru town. There is a playground, several picnic areas and the depot, in the area.

Andy Huffman said:

Bravo Vicki! Bravo! What a great story. Was this on the rails to trail?

Andy Huffman said:

it becomes a matter of free speach. The current ruling is you cannot prohibit free speach in any public area where it has a tradition of assembly.
It's funny people take art and culture to be a nuisance. Expression is shunned for quiet in a city overrun with the sounds of traffic, people, and technology.

Andy, I'm all for freedom of expression, but I retain the right to use an off switch on my TV if the music or "Expression" becomes something I don't want to listen too. It's difficult to turn off a street performance.The force sometimes needed to get around some of them reminds me of fast flowing water over stones. You get turbulence and rapids in the normal flow of pedestrian traffic. And when you only have a few minutes to get to your train stop, a slowing or stoppage of the flow of foot traffic is a pain. If a performer is in a park and out of the way, that's a different story.And as for taking art and culture as being a nuisance, well, a small jazz band playing in the canyon created by State Street in Chicago doesn't add to the cultural level of the city. It simply adds to the decibel level "in a city overrun with the sounds of traffic, people, and technology." It isn't the icing on the cake, it's the straw that breaks the camel's back.Some people call graffiti art, and freedom of expression, to me it's vandalism.

Vicki Miles said:

I'm not shoveling anything! I'm wondering though...I've been to Chicago and experienced the street performers. I think there is a difference between them and busking. Aren't the street performers licensed, usually found in the same location and trying to make a living? I think of buskers as transient entertainment...does that make sense, is there a difference?

Usually the street performers are licensed, but they are still out there with their instrument cases open for tips. They aren't paid performers. There are festivals around the city that also have stage venues and street performers. However the unlicensed busker still gets around. At least with a licensing system one can hope for some measure of performance level, though you couldn't prove it by me.My objection to most of them is simply that I hate listening to them. Music to me is very personal, I like what I like, and I don't listen to what I don't like. And I certainly object to having certain sounds bombard my ears including, rock, jazz, blues. And many of the street musicians are doing that sort of music. Many are now amped and the decibel level is deafening. I actually had to walk through a crowd of listeners to a small jazz band (loud on drums) and past the booming sound equipment. I clapped my hands over my ears to at least dampen the sound a bit and charged through. There was no way around the group and crowd unless I wanted to step out into on coming traffic. Not a good idea.I really hate street performers. I'll pay to go to a concert, but with street performers that you can hear a couple of blocks away, forget it. The only town that has had street performers and buskers that I enjoyed was Edinburgh. There were bagpipers in the park. And they weren't crowding the sidewalks. I'll take a bagpiper over a jazz or blues band any day. heheheheheee

I'm afraid I'm going to be in trouble here, (Heck, I KNOW, I'm getting in to deep doo doo with this), but Buskers for the most part really annoy me.Part of the problem is that in the canyons of Chicago, the sound of a sax, or horn player, or drummer can just bounce off the concrete walls, sidewalks, and road and create a cacophony of noise. Some Buskers, individuals and groups, just don't follow the rules of etiquette in that they take up a large portion of sidewalk room or place themselves in the middle of the sidewalk and disrupt the flow of pedestrians. So trying to get around them as quickly as possible is impossible. Especially if they have managed to gather any sort of a crowd. There was on idiot who chose to perform just outside entrance to one of the metra train stations and the log jam he created was a real nuisance as it was at the top of a long flight of stairs down.To me there is nothing more annoying than trying not to trip over an open instrument case carelessly place in front of the player/players. The feeling that I have to throw money into it because I've had to listen to music that I didn't want to hear in the first place is just plain irritating.

STINKAROO advice...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Send them in my direction, I'd rather have brussel sprouts, which I love than wine which I can't drink. My hubby does the grocery shopping a lot and will come home with bags of sprouts, so proud that he was able to find them. hehehheeee Stephanie Stuckwisch said:

Brussels sprouts?! That guest isn't getting through the door.

Mary Z. Cox said:

Well--this is not dulcimer related, but I just read a piece of real stinkaroo advice in today's local paper.
It was a short article telling folks that instead of bringing flowers or wine to dinner as a guest--we should consider bringing a stalk of brussels sprouts instead of flowers. Evidently they are in season and can be put in a vase--then taken out and eaten the next day for dinner. (yuk!)
Sure hope no one I know decides to take that advice--I'd mush rather have flowers and wine. :)

STINKAROO advice...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'm so not bound to the DAA/DAd thing. I play in C which is better for my voice. If I want to play something like Old Joe Clark, I tune my C up one note to a D. DGG with any lower note played on the bass string. I also tune Aeolian and DorianAs for the speed bump of a 6+ fret, they don't bother me as I finger dance. Since I hop around on the melody line no fret ever gets in the way.But I really found it annoying to be told when I did play with a group that a person couldn't possibly play DAA Ionian with DAd Ionian. Never could convince one member that we were actually playing the same major pattern, WW 1/2 WWW 1/2 for certain songs. She'd just keep coming back to Old Joe Clark and I kept agreeing with her that yes I had to tune DAd for that one. Arrrggghhhhh And to err is human, to arrgghhhh is pirate. ;-) Roger L. Huffmaster said:

Carson, I love your attitude!!!!
I'm not bound to DAd, or DAA....any tuning that allows making a pleasing sound is a good tuning.

The Dulcimer Book by Jean Ritchie

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

I have a book titled Play the Dulcimer by Ear and Other Easy Ways. The authors give instructions on how to tune Ionian, Bagpipe and Aeolian, then they list "Exotic Tunings" under which are Mixolydian, Dorian, Lydian, and Phrygian. A few songs are listed for each, except for Lydian. The authors ask the readers to find a Lydian tune and if they do to please let the authors know what it is. And Locrian simply isn't mentioned at all. Jean Ritchie is quoted as saying that the tunings listed as exotic "Are not used much any more." And all the tunings are given with C as the do note. Publication date 1969-1970 Strumelia said:

Yes that book might not really be that hard to write....it might only have 2 or 3 tunes in it! ;D

I have always been meaning to get that Homespun set of Jean's too....one of those 1000 things on my 'list' to do...

Dulcimer or Guitar?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I think it's sort of to each his or her own. Personally, I play melody/drone or finger dancing on the melody string and let the drones do their thing. However, my preference in music is fairly traditional or traditionally styled music with a strong emphasis on Scottish, and Irish music where the drones are perfect for the music. For other music, I agree that a noter/drone might not be the best way to convey the music. If you're going to be playing modern music with it's tendency to have accidentals thrown in all over the place, a strictly diatonic dulcimer might not even be the best for you, or at least a strict modal tuning might not due as well as say a 1-3-5. You might need to have additional frets or even a fully chromatic fretboard, but always remember that the dulcimer you play is your instrument, played in your lap, and in your style or styles as needed. It's your opinion on how you play that is important. If you enjoy the sound of the music you are making, it's right, but if you don't then it's not and a change might be needed.I learned the hard way that I needed to decide and play for myself by feeling really put down as a noter and melody/drone player when I went to my first workshop ever. The group was told by the instructor that the noter style would bore the audience and that chords were the only way to play for a full rich sound. I walked away from that workshop feeling about 2 inches tall and resolved to learn chords. After practicing with chords my arthritis doctor told me to give it up because of the increased pain I was having in my hands. Since I really wasn't enjoying playing chords as they didn't sound right to me and I was suffering intense pain I gave up chords completely As I'd originally fallen in love with the sound of the dulcimer played in a traditional manner, I was quite pleased to be able to say to anyone who said that I just had to learn to chord to progress, that I had a note from my doctor saying that chording was hazardous to my hand health. ;-) LOL

How did you first discover the mountain dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Found my first back in the late 70's at a Renn. Faire here in Illinois. It was a Berg that I named Mae for Mae West. It has her figure.I thought it was just the instrument for me as I loved the sound and could play it with just one finger on the left hand. My brain is a bit cross wired and the left hand wants to do what the right hand is suppose to be doing which make typing a real pain. But on the dulcimer the hands are doing two different things and I only need to use 1 finger if I want to. I'm not into complicated tunes or complex finger patterns like finger picking so I'm as happy as a lark with my dulcimers. 14 babies now ;-)

my Mize dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I'm glad it gone to someone who can enjoy it, wooden pegs and all. However, if it had been me and I loved the sound of the instrument, I would have changed the tuners. I know, I know, I'm a Philistine ;-) but unless an instrument has great historical value and belongs in a museum, I'd want to be able to play it.

Where's your favorite place to play?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Recently I've been playing most in my daughter's old bedroom which is now the computer room. I've got a music stand, and 3 of my instruments up there. The rest are downtairs in the living room that has an armless chair and music stand as well. I try to keep two books filled with the TAB I've finished and am currently playing on both levels.Tigger just sort of stares and goes back to sleep if he's around when I'm playing. I learned to play "Coorie Doon" by Matt McGinn just for Tigs. He has padded coorie doon spots all over the house.