Forum Activity for @skip

Ken the first one someone says 'hourglass' at the end of the tune, just before starting the 2nd tune.

Larry;

The 'something ' you're missing;

1. A key identifies a specific series of 8 consecutive notes [being available].

2.Keys are scales that are based on the Ionion mode series of steps/half steps [WWHWWWH], in other words the spacing [steps/half steps] between the notes.The physical layout of the MD fretboard dictates that the Ionian scale startsat the 3rd fret to the 10th fret [not counting + frets].You can see this by examining fret spacing on your MD. This could be interpreted to say that the only fret you can capo and change the key is the 3rd fret, all the others change the mode. Keep in mind a mode is simply a change in the order of notes on a single string with the spacing dictated by the fretboard, ie.: open = DEF#GABCD [WWHWWHW] is a mode [mixolydian] and capo at 1 = EF#GABCDE [WHWWHWW] is another mode [aolian] using the same notes in a different order and with different spacing between the notes.This is the reason you will need to re-tune or have another MD to play in C.

3. Having the 6+ and 13+ allows playing in both G and D, [DAd] or C and F [CGc] no capo necessary.

4. There is no need to become too concerned about modes this early in your journey.

You know what I find is interesting, there is no pattern in the variations. Looking just at the 3 A strings on many of the same frets the variation between the middle and melody are in opposite directions. Maybe caused by poorly shaped nut and bridge slots [along with the material]?

Does the MD have a zero fret or just a nut?

Seven home built MD's [one a Mcspadden kit, the first].

A true E'A'D'G bass TMB [an experiment].

A home built banjammer.

A couple more MD's started [experiments].

A home built 16/15 floating soundboard HD with hammers, using 15/14 plans which I modified.

Plus: a 16" Brendan White bodhran, 88 key Yahama keyboard, Ibanez short scale Mikro electric bass, and several penny whistles . I think I have a DAD complication, IAD [instrument acquisition disease] or MED [musical equipment disease, since I've also picked up amps, recorders, etc].

I don't play or use any of them very well [I'm not a musician] but music has been a very interesting hobby for the last few years.

I think 2 different things are being discussed. One is quick adjust tuning and the the other is a tremelo/whammy bar that produces a sound like bending. I also think that both are possible with a bit of thought. The 1st could be done with an 'over center latch' in place of the nails on the tail end similar to some box/luggage latches. The 2nd would require some specific construction details on the tail end of the dulcimer, I have a couple of ideas already, although a modification of the over center latch concept may work also. I'm not sure if these things aren't already available or not.

Edit: Not sure of the rangeon the quick change, it would have to be within the capabilities of the strings for sure.

ESP or great minds? And you referenced the actual guitar tuners.

They have these for bass guitars/ uprights. I don't know if they're available for guitars or not.

http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=6

They are really big though!

I don't think you're going to get much change no matter what you try. I have a McSpadden kit which is about 1 1/4" deep and it sounds just like the 2 1/4" ones I have. Try this; play the note at fretat 7 on the bass then the open melody string [DAd], they are the same note frequency, different tones. That is caused by the different size strings at different lengths/tension. The bass string cannot replace the melody string and be tightened up to produce the same note as the melody string since it will break first. Just going up a few sizes will not change the tone significantly. Also, reducing thetensionon a smaller string will not work either because it will get 'floppy' or 'buzzy' at some point.

To get an idea of what a tune sounds like at the octave lower sound [DAd], play it first on the regular melody string [the .012] then on the bass string.

I personally prefer the bass sound, the higher dulcimer sound is too shrill for my taste. I have a 4-5 of them and a banjimer but generally use the bass more often. Besides, it really sounds good and adds alot when played with the regular sounding ones.

Strothers calculator suggests 39, 29, 22 [24" vsl] I have ~42, 32, 23 on my bass [26.5 vsl].These are at the bottom portion of their calculator.The 'lower' sound you're after may actually be an octave lower. This is the 2nd D below middle C, then the A above it and the D which is presently on the bass string [the D below middle C]. These should get the frequency down but the sound may not be what you're looking for

My opinion only, learn one at a time for chording. The chord finger positions will be different between the two tunings, V[A]=101[EAe] in DAD and 100[EAA] in DAA for instance.Many [most?] 'chords' on the MD are onlypartials. There are a bunch of them that will feel awkward at first but get easier over time. You will learn the best way, for you, of fingering/transitioning between chord changes as you progress. Most of the folks I know use DAd for chording but I've heard that DAA may be easier/better for it.

The best tuning I've found for pure chording is DF#AA [1355], four equidistant strings.

Check the warranty and call the company. Once you know what they will do should give some guidance as to what to do next.

I don't know if this fits into this thread, but I have 'music[al] dementia' and need tab to learn/remember more difficult tunes.

An area I feel needing more coverage is playing in support of the lead [as far as I'm concerned, most dulcimer playing/instruction is on the lead part] so I also use tab to learn and pass on harmonizing and multipart tunes, when I can figure out how to do one. Learning the supporting part can be hard due to the fact it/they do not sound like the melody part, but blend with it [rifs, runs ?], it is not playing the melody with a baritone or bass although that can be a part.

I've only taught one class of seniors, and 2 of the 10 were lefties. One was brand new to playing any instrument, he just learned right handed and said it didn't bother him. The other is a long time guitar player, he plays leftie but kept the strings as is for a right handed player. It doesn't help much but may lead to letting them try what works for them.

Check out http://www.bearmeadow.com/tools/flexifrets-install/index.html

Not a replaceable fretboard, just frets.

I would think the idea is worth trying out but I would install it with some kind of stops or keys to prevent sliding around from handling\, ie.,removable pins at each end.

The fret board could be chromatic on one side and diatonic on the other, just turn it over to switch. Screws for holding it in place.

But I would just as soon have a plain permanent chromatic since it's just a diatonic with additional frets. :>)

Two suggestions, use a toothpick as a temporary fret or 'bend' the string at the 6th fret. Bending is pushing/pulling the string to cause the tone to change to higher a tone.

Try any dulcimer sales store for the books. If they don't have what you want they may be able to point you in the right direction [Mel Bay is a music book publisher]. The folks in the 'Rockin' in the free world' group may also have some suggestions. As far as the second question, try a search here for translation or transposing. You can use any sheet music but you are going to have a big learning curve. The easiest way is to get a music notation such as TablEdit or Finale, etc., and enter the notation as shown in the sheet music and follow the program's directions to transpose it to the key you are going to use. You could also pick it out by ear but that may prove to have somedifficultiesalso. If you're planning on singing the melody and chording, you may find the chords/words [only?] online.

Not confused, just relating to, andintegratingthe info.

Thank you folks. I've never bothered much with music until way after I retired. It's kind of like being a kid again with a neat [cool?], new toy [music] that I'm playing with, learning how it's put together and why it's used in a particular way. With the help of folks like y'all I've learned a whole lot. Sometimes it doesn't stay with me or takes awhile to sink in though.

I understand that part Ken. What I'm after is if there's a place I can find what tuning 'should' be used for a particular tune without 'reinventing the wheel' every time I want to play a new tune or even some I already know, in DAdd. How to determine modes has been discussed many times as has been the note relationship. I have a whole bunch of tab, almost all in DAdd, many are for tunes that have been described as being 'better', or should be played, in a different tuning. I didn't, and don't, know which tunes these are since almost everything that folks hand out, or post, is in DAdd tuning. I probably even have Good King Wenceslas somewhere, in DAdd.

It seems that someone, somewhere, someone has posted a, more or lesspermanent, list of tunes by tuning/mode that doesn't disappear over time. After all, you can find anything on the net, can't you?

I suspect the tab would be different since the notes available on the melody string are different, eg., DAdd doesn't have a C and DAcc does [so a tune is being played, basically, in D vs C when using the melody string only for the melody]. I also suspect the impact is not as strong for chord/melody players since they use all the strings and drones don't play as big a part in the tune.

Strumelia; You pretty much described what I've seen, been involved with. Since your blog is read and referenced by a lot of folks, maybe you would consider adding a section to your blog that ties tunings, not tab, to tunes. These could be lifted from FOTMD posts. Eg., Good King Wenceslas - Ionian - DAA.

I've read your blog in the past and learned a lot from it.

I have several MD's and I have, and had, them in various tunings, including 135, which I like alot.

Folks here and on ED talk about retuning to play various tunes and comments have been made concerning the tuning that 'should' be used for a tune. I have a few of questions about this;

1. Where can I go to find the other than DAD/DAA tuning that 'should' be used or is recommended for these tunes that are being played in the 'inappropriate' [DAdd/DAaa] tuning?

2. Why are these tunings recommended? Because it 'fits' the sound of a strummed, N/D, instrument? What if the MD is being flatpicked or C/M?I'm not interested in mode related reasons because they, mostly, have been discussed before.

3. If I find SMN for one of these tunes will it the be in a different key [original] andthey have been 'converted' to D for the convenience of MD players/instructors?[Everyone knows the MD can only play in D. ]

I have never been around anyone who actually retuned, jam session, fest or anywhere else. It seems everyone in the group sessions I've been to, admittedly not that many, is in D and no one wants to take the time to retune, it slows the session down too much. Not even if they knew the tuning 'should/could' be different. It also seems most of the folks espousing retuning play solo or are very, very adept players [or have more than one MD ].

Thanks everyone! I reallyappreciate all of the input.

Thanks Robin;

Adefinitionthat is in non-music terms clears up a lot for me. I can work out the best way for me to backup/harmonize.

'the root and/or 5th of the scale being played' is the key of the tune, or open bass string, or????

Could you define a 'mode tuning' for me? It looks to me, after really studying Pauls post, with dulcimer in hand, that a 'mode tuning' is having all of a modes notes available on the melody string, rather than having them available on any string. [I tuned my MD to DAA and found a C major at 6-4-6.]And, probably something about the other strings not clashing? If this is the case, it makes many of the things I've read more understandable since I look at all of the notes available, not just the ones on the melody string.

Just a note; I've spent days n days, and a lot of paper, working on the relationship of keys, modes, and fretboard, which I don't have a problem with now. It's the mode tuning , not modes on one string, that gives me heartburn.

So, basically, if I/we want to backup/harmonize, or even play straight melody, using a different tuning, I/we would probably have a greater chance for success by xxx/chording, rather than xxx/droning, andrhythm.

Many keys, many tunings, one tab; Many keys, many tabs, one tuning.Different approaches for different goals.

I really don't like to retune, lazy I suppose. I have enough dulcimers to tune each to a different 1-5-8 but I only take one or two south with me.

I'm also getting to appreciate more and more the basic bass players approach,rhythmand one note chord backups. They do fancy stuff also but I don't know that I'll ever go there.

I kind of do the same thing since I don't really read music as much as translate it to tab. I can find numbers faster than notes though not at playing speed.

I tabbed Wildflower to 4 different keys for the DAdd tuning one time and it worked out ok. It's played on different areas on the fretboard.

Robin;

Watched your video's, we liked them. That is generally where I am aiming to go.

Folkfan; I agree with that. [Except for the modes part, which really doesn't mean as much to me as note availability. I leave that up to the writers/TAB producers and assume they know what they're doing.] The 'everyone would sound alike' is the part which bothers me, it's so sterile sounding [and ultimately boring] to hear everyone playing exactly the same thing. It's part of the reason for the original post.

Robin;

The question is based on Paul Certo's post about a player playing a DAA tabbed tune in DAdd. That player was 3 frets off of the SMN notes. In other words, when the tab indicated a DAA 3 {d} on the melody, the player was playing a DAdd 3 {g, s/b 0 [d]}. That's why it seems to me you should pay attention to the notes even if using TAB [Tab positions the fingers to the fretboard, not the notes].

Won't some of this depend on the style of the player, xxx/chord vs xxx/drone? Most of the folks I play with chord or fingerpick the melody, a few fingerdance. A couple of them can do harmonies, in DAdd.

I don't think many of them, maybe a couple, even know what a mode is. I know, technically, what they are, but don't really understand them. Probably because I play the separate notes as shown in SMN [or TAB].

I suppose the only way I can find out for sure, with my group, is to try it.

I'm probably wrong, but can't you play a mixo tune in DAA [tuned DAdd] as long as you play the notes, not the fret numbers [TAB], and all of the notes are available? Am I forgetting the effect of the drones?

Robin;

I've been learning how bass players do their thing, so what you posted makes perfect sense to me. I'm assuming when you said 'the note that matches the key of the tune', you meant the root note of the key or indicated chord; D, G, or A in the key of D for example.

Thanks y'all.

I should install a set of ddd and try that with some friends [if I can remember to do it]. Are there other tunings that may work with DAdd, other than DAA? My friends seem to enjoy the challenges and are willing to try new things even though they usually stick with a pretty standard set of tunes, with a some new tunes, every season.

I also need to figure out how to do harmonies. Any suggestions for someone not a 'good player', or to pass on to others?

Ken, did you finger pick in DAG?

Have you participated in a MD group that the players were using different, compatible tunings, for example DAdd, DAA, and ddd [everyone playing each tune, the different tunings being usedsimultaneously]? I was just curious since it happens all the time with groups using mixed instruments, guitars, dulcimers, fiddles, double bass, etc. If so, how do you think it worked out?

Well, take a deep breath,,,,,,,,,,,

then remember how you did it.

Thanks Ivan, I interepted that fom the Korg site. My bad.

I went to the Korg site and didn't see any other than the 120. I may have missed it or maybe it was an older model.

ff;

did the readout have the number before or after the note? If the number was before it is a dedicated tuner, like a guitar orukulele tuner. The number then represents a string.

Looks like folks could have a whale of a time with this and be doing it on porpoise, including bass and drum players.

I have a Peterson Flip[per], it's nice but pretty sensitive. Also, it's better for the shop because it'skind of big.

This it? Peterson makes one also.

http://www.amazon.com/Korg-OT-120-Octave-Chromatic-Orchestral/dp/B0...

Put the tune in TablEdit, then change from guitar to dulcimer as the instrument. The dulcimer part [module] would be missing notes because of being diatonic. I've done it, but I set up a custom chromatic dulcimer module in TablEdit. This allows me to get to a 3 string form which then can be modified to the various tunings.

I changed mine that way and it helped. Here is a site tht was recommended on another post, it includes a tension measurement that may help.

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_string.htm