Forum Activity for @folkfan

Standard answer: Just one more!!!!!!!!

Though at this point with 14 I probably have enough.

Cindi, The VSL of an instrument has nothing to do with whether it falls into the dulcimer category by way of definition. Dulcimers I've known and owned have ranged from 30" VSL to 17". And Don Neuhauser sells a baby dulcimer that fits in a Crown Royale bag. Cute little thing and notes correctly, just very high.

Now with a guitar, if you played it on your lap and slapped a wooden box or some other type of box to the neck, the number of strings or how it was fretted wouldn't matter, the thing would become a zither. 8-)

Paul, Actually an HD is a zither too. Strings going completely across the sound box, only the HD is unfretted more like a Kyoto. hehehheee Bet there is a scientist out there going crazy with the hybrids and trying to pigeonhole them. 

Personally, I'm not fond of pigeonholes. 

Barbara, Have you seen some of the whack-doodle things John Jacob Niles called dulcimers?????????? Really strange looking.

http://mewzik.com/research/niles/index.php

There's a system of classifying instruments that puts the dulcimer in with zithers. Zithers have a sound box that the strings completely cross. The stick type of dulcimer would be classified by this system as a lute type of instrument in which the strings cross the sound box but continue up a neck, like the cittern.

There's a nice group here dedicated to the strumstick or stick dulcimer.

http://www.shelleystevens.com/

http://www.jcdulcimer.com/

http://www.gulfweb.net/rlwalker/jamnfolk/jamnfolk.html

http://www.prussiavalley.com/

http://www.mountaindulcimer-1-3-5.com/

Here are a few other sites for tab

You've mentioned 3 keys that you'd like to play with your instrument tuned to DGdd which would give you the key of G with the scale starting on 3 on the melody string. You'd have a D and G drone as you would with the traditional GDD tuning only the drones would be reverse. This would mean using DAA or 1-5-5 tabs.

If you play the middle string as the G on the open string, you could use DAd or 1-5-8 tabs. You wouldn't have the G drone though, only the lower D on bass and higher d on melody.

To play the key of D as DAdd all you need to do is tune the middle string one note higher from G to A. Use DAd tabs.

The Key of A is normally played AEE, AEA on a baritone and uses heavier gauge strings as the A is the A below the C3 or the C below middle C. However, if you are tuned to DGdd you can do a sort of reverse A as EAe by tuning you bass D one note up to E, the middle string G one note up to A, and the melody strings dd one note up to ee. Again you have the E and A drone with the a at 3 on the melody strings so you'd need DAA or 1-5-5 tabs.

If you are a chord player, you'll have to rearrange your fingers for the proper pattern, but if you're a melody drone player, the tunings should work.

I normally tune CGG but frequently go G by going to DGG . I tune my bass up one note and switch from 1-5-5 tab to 1-5-8. Any lower notes are on the bass string.

Try fiddling around with your tunings but remember to always keep the string you're tuning sounding. If it becomes to hard to change the note, stop tuning. The string will be stretched as far as it's limit.

Changing the type of pick you are using and especially how much of it extends from your fingers should help. The pick needs to strike the strings not the fret board.

That's the fretting I play in an Ionian mode tuning. It's the same fretting pattern that Jean Ritchie plays tuned CGG

I fret the doh note on 3.

TAB Pretty Saro 1-5-5

0 3 1 0 3 4 5 4 3\0 1 0
Down in some lone valley, in a lonesome place
0 0 3 1 0 3 4 4 4 5 7 7 4
Where the wild birds do whistle and their notes do increase
4 5/7 7 8 4 3 3/4 5 0 1 0
Farewell pretty Saro, I'll bid you a-dieu
0 0 3 1 0 0 3 4 5\4 3 0 1 0
But I'll dream of pretty Saro wher-e-ver I go

Vivian, Have you tried playing the tab you have on the middle string in DAd. Basically that's what Richard is doing. He's playing a slightly flat DAd tuning on the A string. You could try tuning just to DAA and playing on the melody line.

Jean Ritchie in her book (I looked her tune up) plays "Pretty Saro" in CGG which will put you an Ionian mode. The site that I gave you has TAB that looks like a Mixolydian tuning, but it is the same fret number that Jean Ritchie plays. If I was tuned CGc, I'd do as Richard has done and play the fretting I have on the middle string.

If you want the sound that Richard is doing, you have to loosen your strings just slightly. You don't really have to retune if you are in DAd just relax the strings an equal amount and your strings shouldn't buzz as you're not going down even a whole note.

http://sniff.numachi.com/lookup.cgi?ds1=D&ds2=D&ds3=G&ti=PRETSARO&tt=PRETSARO&tab=d

This is how I play it using an Ionian tuning of CGG.

Richard is playing a DAd tuning, but 15 percent flat in his tuning and he is playing on the middle string. The vibrating technique he uses give the song a quavery sound that the singer who he has based his playing on has in her voice.

Depending on how strict the particular SCA event you want to participate in is, you might not be able to play a mountain dulcimer. It would be out of the time period normally allowed. A hummel would be ok.

Also depending on how strict the Renn faire organization is, that is running the faire you want to play for, the mountain dulcimer might also be unacceptable. Years ago the Bristol Renn faire near me went from very free and easy about what was considered appropriate costuming and music to extremely strict. By their recent website though

http://www.renfair.com/bristol/thefaire/entertainment.asp

this strict view of proper has lessen at least somewhat. There is a group that has an autoharp player.

This is the renn faire I always attended and the performers have to audition for a spot in the show. This is professionally run by for-profit company. You can see the audition procedure on their site. I'm not sure what their current payment of musicians is. It used to be that certain, usually the ones hired back year after year, performers were paid and allowed to sell their cds and others were allowed to busk. Having looked at the 2010 web site, I see that several acts that I've known for years are still performing there.

well if the next doesn't included everyone (men and women) going Full Monty (using British Royal Naval slang, here folks) then it sounds good to me.

Jim Edwards said:

Here's what I may try next time:

Verse 1 - show just the hands

Verse 2 - show a TAB of the song

Verse 3 - show full body and face

How does that sound?

Cheers,

Jim

Yep. Not too old to learn something new. Unfortunately, I'm too old to remember it.

Garey McAnally said:

Reading all the great discussion, I suddenly felt overwhelmed by ignorance. Does everyone in the world know what SMN is but me? I thought it might be something kinky. But, my friend, Mr. Google, set me straight. SMN- S tandard M usical N otation. Oh, I know what that is ! ! ! Not too old to learn 'sumpin' new.

One point that I'd like to make as to the advantage in using tab and/or SMN, is with group playing. When you are playing with a large group, either all dulcimers or mixed instruments, if there is some sort of music to play from, the group is all on the same page, so to speak. A player can memorize the music and then play without throwing off others by playing something that is totally his or her own.

I've heard large jams where the players are all doing their own thing, shall we say, and all the audience hears is cacophony. Imagine a symphony orchestra all playing by ear. Every musician playing something by Mozart, for example, that he or she has made his or her own. Can you see the horror in the conductor's face.

Mitch, The question with regards to tab for me has sort of yes and no answer. So let me take it in steps.

One: I start with a song that I can sing. I don't even bother trying to learn tunes as I need something to hang a melody on.

Two: Once I have a song in mind, I go looking for sheet music to get the general fretting pattern. As playing by ear eludes me, I need to see the notes to match to the rhythm in my head to fret numbers.

Three: When I have the fret numbers, I go to my word processing program and put in the words to the song with the frets.

Four: After playing and rearranging notes to fit the song as closely as possible to what I hear being sung in my head or on recording, I end up with my tab. Since I have a very poor memory when it comes to learning to play a song, I put the tab in a notebook and play it from that. Occasionally, I will actually remember a songs fret patterns, and be able to play it without looking. But this is a rare occurrence.

An example of my tab. So, I guess I'd have to say, No I don't learn tunes by playing tabs. I don't learn tunes at all. But I end up with a sort of cheat sheet type of tab so that I can play the song that I've learned to sing by hearing it, and can play by seeing it.

And to the second part of your question on style, I play a simple strum to the rhythm of my singing. So my mood determines my playing style is the way I think of it.

Got one named Mae for Mae West. An early Berg with a very curvaceous body and wasp waist. Other than that, I have Magic, Comet, Thistle, Dearheart, Irish, Ivy (ivy leaves for soundholes) Flame, Flair, Starbright etc. These are all based on the soundhole pattern.

I guess the mood is in the ear of the listener, as I do hear a change. As I hear a mood change in the following from the first part "Erev Shel Shoshanim" which is a lyrical love song frequently sung at weddings, to the joy of "Siman Tov and Mazel Tov" a song frequently done at the end of the wedding ceremony.

But the music I have for them both in Aeolian with minor chords with the sheet music for "Simon Tov" instructing it to be played "Joyously" as it is.

But as I said, it's probably in the ear more than the music as "Shady Grove" strikes me as quite a happy, bouncy tune too.

Pop, What frets are you using to play the second verse? I can't figure it out just hearing it. There is enough of Amazing Grace left that to me it's not entirely a new tune, but rather it sounds simply as if you are miss hitting some of the frets correctly. This is especially true when hearing the verses together, if you hadn't played the first and last verse, I'd probably be trying to put words to the tune and sing it, but not able to do so. But this frequently happens to me when someone is playing a tune that I know as a song, and has added a great deal of ornamentation and embellishment to the original melody.

Paul, Here's an example of what I meant by a mode not necessarily a emotion such as happy, sad, light, dark. This is Shlomo Carlebach's song "Am Yisrael Chai", it is in the Aeolian mode and is in C minor, key signature with 3 flats and ending on a C or 1 (to me) and Cm is the final chord. I'm looking at Sholmo's musical notation for it and I can't say hearing it played what key he is actually doing it in. You can hear the mode start out slowly and perhaps you can say somberly at first, but about 1:14 the mood changes as the tempo changes. This happier mood is how most people sing and dance the tune.

There was a discussion awhile back about the moods of the modes. I say again basically what I said then. A mood can be created by a strong rhythm and beat, more than a mode creates a mood.

I know some dance tunes that are in Aeolian and when I can get them up to speed they are rollicking. The Massacre at Glencoe, on the other hand, is a very serious and somber song written in Ionian and it make me cry.

Paul, Changing modes has been a trick that musicians have used for centuries. An example of this is Barb'ry Ellen as it's been change in the mountain singing. Jean Ritchie plays it in the Aeolian mode, but I used English not American songbooks to tab my version of it out. So my version is titled "Barbara Allen" and is in the Ionian mode.

This modal change that has been done, seems to me quite common.

I've got "Barbara Allen" stuck in my mind and realized that I'd phrased that last sentence to fit the final measures of the tune. 9-10-8-6-7-8-3,4-5-7-8-7-5-3 Now I'll have to go play something else to get it out of my mind. heheheheeeee

Pop,

I should have mentioned that, although the melody sounds correct, the drones won't as the melody isn't in the key of G. If you play tuned DGC starting with the g at 4, with my tab the doh note of the scale is actually starting at the 7th fret or the C. Your drones should be a C and G not D and G.

All that is happening is that the 4th fret is standing in place of the nut for the start of the fret placement pattern.If your dulcimer has a 6+ and 13+ frets, for an Ionian scale as "Amazing Grace" uses, you skip the 6th fret and use the 6+ for your second whole step with the 7th fret the first half step. After that up the fretboard the 10th fret is the second 1/2 step and would be played like the traditional 6th fret. There is no 10+ so no 6+ on the nut at 4 playing pattern. If you have a 13+ that becomes the 9th fret and 14 is now the 10th fret. My dulcimers go up to the 16th fret so I could play Ionian tunes that go up to the 12th fret, but no higher when starting at 4.

Pop,

If I was to play "Amazing Grace" in Ionian my first line tuned to any 1-5-5 tuning would start

0-3-5-3-5-4-3-1-0 and to get the same whole and half step patterns from the 4th fret, I would play frets:

4-7-9-7-9-8-7-5-4. And just on the melody line it sounds fine.

Shady Grove can be played in a Dorian tuning as it doesn't use a 6th fret.

In the book "Tunes of the Wilderness Road" by Smith and MacNeil Shady Grove is tabbed out twice once using DAC for a tuning arranged for the Aeolian Scale, and once tuned DAG written for Dorian. The first one give the Standard Musical Notation as written in the key of F ending on D or a 1. The second give the SMN as the key of C with the music ending on D or a 4th fret.

No, even a key change which is done quite a bit doesn't change the song to another song. I have lots of song books and the tune will be in the key of C, D, G, F but will all be in the major mode or a 1-5-5/Ionian. When I have it tabbed out I can play the tab in any key that my dulcimer can be tuned to, if I keep it in a 1-5-5 note relationship. If I go to a 1-5-8 plus 6+ tuning then I have to change the tab by subtracting 3. The tune is still the same as the notes I'm playing are still the same just lower on the fretboard.

Since, I'm interested in playing for singing it is often necessary to lower the key that a tune/song is written in. However, I disagree with Ken a bit on "personalizing" a song. I feel it can be over done. Again, I'm thinking in terms of singing a song. Frequently I've been in a position that when hearing a tune to a song that has had the heck personalized out of it, I can't sing the song any more. In fact, unless I've been told what the tune is suppose to be, I wouldn't recognize it played instrumentally at all. That's taking a tune and going too far with it on embellishment in my book.

And as to Shady Grove, I have it tabbed in Aeolian Mode as the music for it in my books tends to end on a 1. So I tune CDBflat.

I'm bringing this thread up again as I just found it while doing a image google on quilt stands. I'm wanting to do another dulcimer stand and was looking through for quilt stand plans and pictures. Well, there my dulcimer was resting on one of the stands I pictured in this thread. I think I'm going in circles. I'll just use the measurements from my old stand and have my brother cut some wood for me.

How do I store them? Let me count the ways. Eight on a modified quilt stand. One on an X key board stand. And others scattered around the place on various wooden easel type of stands. And they are usually covered with various small quilts I've made for dust covers as this one is on the keyboard stand. The keyboard stand is nice for standing up and playing. I don't have any hanging on the walls as I don't have much interior wall space with my home's floor plan.

And as to storing them in cases, well, I've never had a case for every instrument. Lee Felt's soft cases are the ones I have, two double and one single, but I wouldn't put instruments in them and leave them lying around on the floor. With my kultzy feet I'd end up stepping on them.

Really nice limberjack. Love unicorns and limberjacks. You did a great job with this one.

Well, mine are made by my brother, Dave Lynch, who is known here and on ED as Harpmaker. You could contact him at Sweet Woods Instruments. His email is harpmaker at sweetwoodsinstruments dot com or at area code 660 then 747 -- 8618.

If you want he can add strap buttons to the corners of the possum board for greater security, but I've never had them installed on mine.

Vanessa, If you want more volume from your instrument you can get it by using a possum board. A possum board lifts the instrument off your lap and allows the bottom of the sound box to fully vibrate rather than being muffled in the lap.

Here's a photo of two of mine that my brother made for me. They both have a none slip rubber glued to the bottom of the board which allows for a great flexibility in placement on my lap. The one with the extra leg means that I can really stretch my legs out for greater comfort as I play. You don't have to strum as hard to increase the sound when the instrument is lifted.

Vanessa Lorentzen said:

Thanks for the reply Ken. After considering your comment and Beth's about playing slower and analyzing a bit, I believe I have been too aggressive, a combination of excessive force and pulling up as I do some alternate picking (as I have seen my husband do on the guitar.) WELL...it doesn't get the same results. I was proud that I could do it though! Funny thing is that I appreciate the soft sound of the dulcimer, but as I play more I want more volume and I think it's getting me into trouble. I guess I better call the guy who sold me the dulcimer to find out the gauge...you're right, I need a spare set!

You mentioned strumming with too much authority, do the strings buzz only when you strum forcefully or all the time? Some times strings will buzz if the finger or pick lifts the string upwards from the fret board rather than moving side to side. This upward pull lets the string snap back down against the frets and can create a buzz. You need to adjust your angle of attack on the strings to a cross motion eliminating the lifting motion if this is the problem.

Dancing At Whitsun is a favorite of mine. Had a chance a few years ago to see the Hedge Row Crown in the Tower display of the English Crown Jewels. This year it wasn't there. When I asked a Gentleman Warder what happened to it, he was surprised that I even knew what a Hedge Row was and why they were important enough to be the base for a crown designed for the Queen.

Tim Hart's rendition of the song is just beautiful.

john p said:

Sad - Well, folowing Paul's suggestion above, the tune of 'The Week Before Easter' was used for a song called 'Dancing at Whitsun' and tells of the ladies left without their husbands and sweethearts who never returned from the Great War.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9bH1XsWHgY

Spooky - Well Childe #6 is very 'Wierd', usually known as 'Willie's Lady', 'The Nine Witch Knots' or 'The Loaf of Wax'. This has it all, the cruelty of the Step Mother, the torment of the Bride, the resolutness of the Husband, the resourcefullness of the Faithfull Retainer ...

The Nine Witch Knots refers to the binding of one of the most terrible curses that could be laid on any woman.

Oddly, the tune usually used for this ballad(due to Ray Fisher) is a somewhat raucous and slightly maudlin cider drinking song from Brittainy.

john p

Beth, I just got another version of The Rolling of the Stones, the lyrics are a bit different than those I know but the tune is the same. In this version the pretty Susie doesn't charm the young man from his grave, because after receiving his fatal wound, no one buries him. They just take him to the woods and lay him on the ground. YUCK.

It's sung by Oscar Brand on the album recorded by Jean Ritchie, Oscar Brand and David Sear, title "A Folk Concert In Town Hall, New York". I got it from iTunes.

folkfan said:

I'm working on a tab for it, but my tabs are simple melody lines with the lyrics with no chords. At the moment I'm working from two slightly different SMN melodies and trying to get them to fit the music I have playing from a third source. Usually after going through the process of adding and subtracting notes I end up with a final tab. When I get there, I'll put it up.

Beth Hansen-Buth said:

I love unusual ballads! Would you happen to have TAB or lyrics with chords that you'd care to share for this one? I'm intrigued...

folkfan said:

The Rolling of the Stones. An unusual ballad in that it actual deals with magic and spelling.

I love unusual ballads! Would you happen to have TAB or lyrics with chords that you'd care to share for this one? I'm intrigued...

folkfan said:

The Rolling of the Stones. An unusual ballad in that it actual deals with magic and spelling.

Seems like "Reading Glasses Memory" might help me more. I remember where my muscles are,but if I can just train my reading glasses to come to me whenever I'm awake.....

Paul

Heck I've always suffered from CRS then. One of my high school teachers told me I had a Swiss cheese for a brain. This particular instructor couldn't ever figure out what I could or would be able to remember. I knew what I could learn, I just couldn't remember what it was. But back then I called it DRD or Don't Remember Diddlysquat.

My mother would never have let me use that "other" word. ;-)

Jim Fawcett said:

CRS occurs for me just about everyday, folkfan. It's an on going thing and I just have to deal with it. I know that alot of people have it and don't want to admit to it. It's "Can't Remember Sh--". So if you have it, it's best to come out of the closet and admit it. You'll feel so much better.

CRS is a terrible thing. Affects me all the time. But in the long run I win out over it.

Randy, a pretty good definition of muscle memory as I understand it, is given in WikiPedia which says.....

Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning , which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, playing a melody or phrase on a musical instrument, playing video games, ^{[ 1 ]} or performing different algorithms for a puzzle cube .

okay ...thanks for the responses so far...Do you recommend nickle versus steel? phosphor bronze, etc... why and why not? I'm sure many of you have experimented with different kinds.....what have you found to be the difference?n Thanks