Forum Activity for @ken-hulme

Ron Gibson makes very fine instruments.  I've played several but don't own one. 

The Barbara Allen tm model is Ron's nod to a traditional teardrop shaped 'Virginia' style dulcimer; but with a deeper than traditional body and the 6+ and 13+ frets which, as the + sign indicates, are not traditional.  Check out his website.

DAd, DAA, and CGG can all be tuned from the same set of strings.  DAA and CGG are the same Ionian Mode tuning but one is the key of D, the other key of C.  DAd is also called Mixolydian Mode.  The melody string in DAd or CGc is tuned an octave higher than the bass string note, usually indicated by the lowercase letter d or c.

Tuning up to Ggg is not particularly "Asian", but it will require different strings to prevent snapping the bass string.  It is what we call a Bagpipe Tuning in the key of G.  The three strings are all tuned to G but the middle and melody strings are tuned an octave higher than the bass string.   

You may want to have a read of the article/booklet I wrote a number of years ago which answers many beginner questions about tuning, playing, care and feeding of the dulcimer,  It's called I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?  and can be found here:

https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/dulcimer-resourcestabs-books-websites-dvds/17129/i-just-got-a-dulcimer-now-what-article
 

Lisa is correct, of course the actual tuning is DF#A, not DFA.  And the F# is higher than the bass string and lower than the Melody string. 

I use the Strothers String Calculator:  http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.html  You plug in the VSL of your instrument at the chosen open tuned notes you want.  The calculator is noticeably a bit light, so you can easily go 1 or 2 gauges higher.

I belong to the "change your tuning" school, not the "one tuning per instrument" so I'm constantly changing tunings to match my mood and the moods of the songs I play.

I spent close to 30 years tuning mostly to Ionian DAA and the minor Modes Aeolian DAC and Dorian DAG.  All based on one set of string gauges.  These days I mostly play dulcemores set up to play Bagpipe tunings Ddd and Cgg, and plus a museum replica fretted zither set up for Unison tunings of ddd and ccc, and another "high strung" for GDD.

What are you currently tuned to??   DAd?  That .024 is a bit heavy -- .019 to .022 is more common.  An ideal string set for DFA (1-3-5) would be .020/.016/.012.   

Strothers String Calculator:  http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.html

Diameters of the strings will vary depending on the VSL and the Open tuning notes you want.  VSL is the distance between nut and bridge.  DAA will be slightly different that DAd,  CGG vs CGc the same.  A given set of strings will let you tune up or down two steps before getting too floppy or starting to break.

Exactly right.  Those bits are designed to work in a multitude of situations.

After you trim the nut/bridge to length and slot fit, you're ready for The Nickel & Dime Action Adjustment!  You'll need: strings, a nickel, a dime, more of that sandpaper 60 grit and maybe 100 grit, and a hard-flat surface to sand on,

1.  Put the Nut and bridge in place.
2.  Put the strings on tight, but not tightened all the way to pitch tuned.
3.  Set the Dime next to the 1st fret; notice how large the gap is on both sides.  
4.  Balance the Nickel on top of the 7th fret (not the 6+ fret) and notice the gap there as well.
5.  Slack the strings enough to slide the Nut out of its slot.
6.  Place some 60 grit sandpaper on your hard surface, grit up
7.  Sand a dozen or 20 strokes off of the bottom of the Nut.
8.  Slide the nut back into place and re-tighten the strings.  Notice the gap.
9.  Repeat Steps 5-8 until the strings are almost touching the surface of the dime.

Now it's time to work the Bridge end of things.

1.  Slack the strings and slide the Bridge out of its slot.
2.  Sand a dozen or 20 strokes off of the bottom of the Bridge.
3.  Slide the bridge back in place and tighten the strings. 
4.  Balance the Nickel on top of the 7th fret and check the gap.
5.  Rinse & repeat until the strings are just touching the nickel on top of the 7th fret
6.  Now that the Bridge is lowered, you can go back, if you want, to the Nut
     and lower the strings a tiny bit more using some 100 grit sandpaper, if you want,,,

This is not the absolute lowest Action height you can have, but it's a good place to start.

When you're ready to set the new nuts/bridges, start a new thread here so that we can talk you through the simple process of setting the "action height" -- distance of strings above frets -- to something that won't slice your fingers!

Thanx Ken, I completely missed the bridge in that second photo.  You're right, that looks like a common Delrin(tm) bridge from McSpad or Folkcraft, and it really needs replacing.  

Those brass brads are very common as string pins even among the best of dulcimer builders; they do not get tapped in to hold the string in place.  Pressure of the strings being tightened is what holds the strings on the pins.   

Are the existing pins actually loose, or are you just interested in making them look more aesthetically pleasing?  

The 'odd' bit is that someone used a ball-end string to make a loop-end rather than using all loop end strings.  I suggest using only loop-end strings on instruments with this string-pin arrangement.  Or, if you want to be able to use ball-end strings as well as loop-ends, use headless string pins of small enough diameter that the ball of ball-end strings can be slid onto the shaft of the pin.

The simplest repair is to just put new 1" brads in place a half-inch up from the old positions.  Sink them in about as far as the existing brads -- say 3/4" deep,  Then sand and fill the old holes with glue-dust or wood putty.

You didn't post any photos of the nuts/bridges, so we can't tell what kind they are, how they are set into or onto the fretboard, or whether they actually need replacing.  

Normally, "the key I'm in" is the open note of the Bass string.  That is, the entire instrument is tuned to a particular keynote -- C, D, G, whatever.  

The + frets are not there to supply notes -- not just sharps or flats -- above and beyond the diatonic scale.  The 6+ fret in particular was added to the fretboard because people wanted to be able to play a C natural as well as the C# which is 'natural' to that diatonic scale. 

When I first learned all this we talked about Modes, and the idea that players wanted to be able to play in more than one Mode with re-tuning.  DAA (a.k.a. Ionian Mode) is what guitar folks think of as the Natural Major Scale.  DAd (a.k.a. Mixolydian Mode) is almost the same -- except that the 7th note of the scale is "flatted" (a half step below what it would be in the Natural Major scale).  The 6+ fret was added so that players could play both the natural and the flatted 7th note of a scale starting on the Open fret.

Years ago I wrote the attached article about modes (scales) and the diatonic nature of the dulcimer.  It might help you understand things...

Uncontrite Modal Folker.pdf - 92KB

File for "fit" reasons not aesthetics.  A string will normally set firmly into a V notch, but can slip around inside a saw kerf.  I have a set of small jewelers flies - triangle, square, round, half round -- that attach to an included handle.  I think the set was $10 at Ace hardware.

FWIW, we almost never leave a nut or bridge full height and cut slots down into it; we cut the height of a blank down to something reasonable and use a triangular file to make the notches (they don't have to be very deep -- not more than 2x the diameter of the string).

Congrats on a new BFF!   Actually, you could tune it B-F-F and play DAA two steps lower!

Patty -- you probably will not find a dulcimer fret calculator that includes all those plus frets.  The Wfret calculator does include 6+ and 13+ but not the 1+ and 8+.   This is the only calculator I know of which actually allows you to print out a template which you can then tack-glue to the fretboard for cutting.  All other calculators simply give you a list of fret positions in inches or millimeters.  Use millimeters, they're more accurate.

Simplest solution is probably to use a guitar fret calculator, which will have all the chromatic frets.  Then ignore the frets you don't want. 

@cj-smith asked "Given the same craftmanship (2 dulcimers built by the same quality builder), what do you hear is the difference in particular woods."

A competent luthier can "tune" a dulcimer to create whatever "sound" you want to hear.  There are at least a hundred variables which affect the sound of a dulcimer, and wood type is pretty darn far down the list.  

Talk to the luthier and tell him what sound you are looking for.  Ask him to play the three you are considering over the phone for you.   Buy the one that sounds the best to you.  Or buy the one you consider the prettiest. 

Capitals and accent marks indicate the octaves.  The first letter of a tuning name is usually the bass string, then the Middle Drone, lastly the Melody string(s).  CGG/CGc and DAA/DAd are the most common tunings.

C D E F G A B c d e f g a b

The Bass string is usually C or D.  The Middle Drone is then G or A.  If you are tuning to CGG or DAA, the melody string(s) ae the same as the Middle Drone.  If you are tuning CGc or DAd, the Melody string(s) are an octave higher in pitch -- as indicated by the lower case letters c or d.  If you refer to the line of letters above, and count 8 letters to the right of C or D, you will find c or d.   

The system goes both higher and lower than shown here, with accent marks indicating other octaves.

Randy is "da bomb" when it comes to fretless dulcimers.  I don' think you can call the sound "sweeter"... just different.

Not necessarily "one size down".  The Strothers string gauge calculator shows that for a 29" VSL tuned DAA/DAd or CGG/CGc, you want .010 for the two Melody strings, a .012 for the Middle Drone, and a .020 wound string.
,

1.  Yes -- as far as we can hear, the prejudice against plywood is that it is "dirt cheap" and therefore not good.  FALSE

2.  Spruce/redwood for dulcimer tops, IMHO is not worth the expense.  In guitars, yes.  But dulcimers do not create sound the same way, and the "good" that spruce does in a guitar is negated in a dulcimer because the top is so small and further, is muted by the fretboad.

3.  Body wood choice is just one of close to a hundred factors which affect the sound of a dulcimer and is overshadowed by the other 99 factors.

Again, IMHO, dulcimer buyers have been sold "a bill of goods"  about the importance of exotic, expensive, sexy-looking woods in making dulcimers.  As you said, extremely common woods like poplar make absolutely beautiful sounding instruments.

You asked "Is it a matter of the best luthiers choosing the woods that make the subtly best differences, thereby choice of wood could imply a level of craftsmanship?"   

My answer is NO.  Almost no dulcimer builders have done any reliable, repeatable quantitatively measured experiments to prove "beyond a shadow of doubt" that any woods make any subtle or not so subtle differences in dulcimer sound. 

They would like you to think that because they use sexy, expensive woods that that implies "a certain high level of craftsmanship".  But it does not.  A high level of craftsmanship is found only in those dulcimer builders who can make any woods, or even materials like cardboard or Legos sound good.

[donning asbestos suit to weather incipient firestorm]

I used Jumbo frets a few times, didn't ca re fo r them

As Dusty said, you can't really compare recordings of Brands of instruments on the internet -- too many variables.  The only reasonable comparison you can make is to listen live (by phone or in person) to two specific instruments being played.  Even then, as James said -- there can be a huge number of variables that cause individual instrument to have a specific sound. 

What Matt said.  Wood is only one of a hundred factors that goes into making a dulcimer "mellow" and guitar-like, or "high and silvery" the way traditional instruments sound, including how the player plays the instrument.

All you can do is pick walnut or cherry to go with the redwood top.  Since you can't even see what the particular pieces of walnut and cherry *look like* , just look at instruments that have those woods in combination.  

I always recommend that unless you are working directly with a luthier to produce your "ultimate dulcimer", that you play as many as you can and pick the one that sounds best.  Sound is, to most people, more important than wood.  If it isn't, then I'm sorry for them.   A competent luthier can make any combination of woods sound mellow or high-silvery.

Welcome to the family, Shelley!  

@bob-stephens -- you are correct -- IF the builder makes (as many modern builders especially of inexpensive dulcimers do) the tuning head and tail string anchor are all one piece with the fretboard.  Especially if the fretboard/head/anchor board is fast-growing flat-sawn, not quarter-sawn, not very hard timber.   

If, as Ken Longfield says, the strings are anchored in the tail block and a tuning head attached to the head block, then there is virtually no string pressure trying to pull up the ends of the fretboard and warp it.  Rather there is a minimal amount of pressure pressing the ends of the fretboard containing the nut and bridge downward and helping keep it flat.

Warping can always be an issue with instruments, even $100,000 instruments that travel.  BUT!  "Well kept" is the important thing.  Giving the instrument a chance to acclimate to new surroundings is important.  I once made a dulcimer that fretted perfectly in mile-high Prescott, AZ, but which raised a fret every time I drove 90 miles south and 4000 ft lower in elevation to the Phoenix area.  Drive home again and it was fine.  Such issues are extremely rare with dulcimers.

As Dan said, lutes/guitars are completely different critters than fretted zithers/dulcimers, and guitar problems are rarely found in dulcimers.  The dulcimer fretboard is rigidly attached for its entire length; a lute/guitar neck is just hanging out there, just asking to be affected by everything!   A truss rod on a dulcimer would not be worth the time and effort to make and install.

There are a lot of static photos of 100+ year old dulcimers.  And quite a few such instruments in museum collections like the Hindman, KY museum, the UK museum in Louisville, KY, and the 'opening next year' dulcimer museum that John Hallberg is setting up.  

Our friend Kendra Ward regularly plays an over-100 year old dulcimer that belonged to her grandmother.

IMHO, with dulcimers, things like truss rods, carbon fiber doohickeys and similar space techno things are just not relevant to making an instrument sound good.  If you can do it with well-cured wood, all the hi-tech stuff in the universe won't make your dulcimers any better.  More expensive, but not any better.   Compare -- sight-unseen -- the sound quality of a dulcimer that Dan, or Bobby Ratliff or some of the others build with simple tools; to the modern marvels made with all the hi-tech widgetry available.  The difference is negligible; but all that hi-tech is gonna cost you a LOT more.  

This is an old thread, but it's good to see that the revived Hughes Company has lasted at least 10 years -- @kfuller yours appears to be a 2019 model.

Most Americans pronounce it "soo-key-ah-key".  The actual pronunciation my Japanese friends tell me is closer to "ski-yaki".

Thanx, Lisa.  I figured after all these years I needed a change!

We're doing Zoom yoga with our teacher, and I do T'ai-chi in a local park with a couple friends; plus walking when it's not 90F+ and 90% humidity!

I made a vegetarian Picnic Pie for Sunday Brunch today -- roasted veggies and some cheese encased in puff pastry, baked in a springform pan.  When it's done you have a free-standing 'pie' that is 3" tall and 9" in diameter that you slice and serve in wedges.  A little decadent with the puff pastry, but once in awhile you've got to splurge.  It being Mango season we had chilled mango halves for dessert.

Exception work, as always, my friend.  Bravo.  That's a real beauty.

Nina -- anytime.  Our AirBnb listing is open once again (cautiously), and I'll certainly make you a gourmet seafood dinner!

Hardly anyone goes swimming in the sea down here.  Playing "Bobber" is thing.  Or sitting in the shade and watching/listening to the surf roll in and the seabirds.  On a good day you'll be out Bobbing and manatee will come up to investigate you; or a pod of dolphins want to play with you.

Magic -- you may be over thinking things. 

I'll suggest recording your playing and at the end note things you liked about a particular recording.  They play it back -- the later that day or next day -- to hear what it sounds like.  You can never really tell what the balance of melody to drones sounds like, your attack on the melody or drones, etc.  until you hear it from "out front" as it were instead of "on top" of the sound.

Bouncy, bouncy, Lisa -- it's good for you! 

We got our "bounce on" two weekends back.  We took a short stay at Manasota Key up near Venice, FL, over 4th of July.  Olde Florida kinda beachfront motel seriously doing social distancing and mask wearing, etc.  Private beach so few people about.  Summer rental rates. Gulf of Mexico was 90F and so was the air temp!!  Afternoons there was a 'good' sea swell, and  needless to say, standing out in chest to neck deep water, we did a lot of bouncing in the waves.  Enough that even though we were eating more than at home (dinners at a nearby fabulous really socially conscious restaurant) we still each lost a pound or so over 4 days!

I've owned one of John's Ed Thomas replicas (painted poplar) for a number of years, and agree wholeheartedly with everything you've written.  John is a joy to work with and builds great instruments -- not just the Thomas replica but his large traditional Singleton replica is fabulous as well.  

Judging how much and which drones to emphasize where in any particular song, is to me one of the joys of working up tunes on a traditional dulcimer.

Steve, welcome!   We look forward to insights from everyone.  As you mention, the dulcimer creates its sound differently than the guitar. 

Changing out a hardwood top for a softwood one seems like it would work, but doesn't really since there is so little top to vibrate.   What works much better, IMHO, is to completely free the back to vibrate -- hence the "false bottom" of the Galax style instruments mentioned below.   

A lot of guitar builders come to the dulcimer and try to apply guitar style bracing on the top and back.  Which does nothing, of course, except make those surfaces even more stiff and less sound producing!  With dulcimers, fewer braces are generally better.  That big brace on top can be massively hollowed, and arched to cut down on overall mass, but for conventional "on the lap" play it needs to be a minimum of 1/2" deep for Chord-Melody style play.  We Traditional players want a fretboard closer to 1" high so there is room for fingers to clear, but also like narrower fretboards since we are fretting only one string.

It's not sacrilege to consider moving at least the bridge inboard, and some builders bring it quite far in.  The nut is harder to move inward unless you restrict construction to flat guitar style tuning heads.  If there is "too much" dulcimer beyond the nut and bridge, balancing the instrument on your lap can become an issue.  

Nate -- Dan is referring to the more or less traditional Galax shape and construction -- a deep-bodied elliptical (not teardrop) shaped body with a double bottom.  That sort of shape needs no special tools or anything to make the elliptical sides.  

Many builders today do not use any bracing.  The top and bottom are simply glued to the edges of the sides without kerfing even; especially with teardrop and elliptical designs.  

The general rule of thumb for loudness and 'baritone-ness' is that the larger the volume of the soundbox (not just width or length, but volume), the louder the overall sound... especially when accompanied by more than 4 or 5 square inches of sound hole.  

Size (square inches) of sound hole is important to creating volume.  There's a complex mathematical solution called the Helmholts Equation (Wikipedia has a good write up on the subject).  As a dulcimer gets bigger it needs more soundhole to let out the sound, and it's not a linear progression.  John's Uncle Eddie has soundholes that are scaled up from the originals, but it needs maybe almost twice as much area of soundhole to "let it all out".  If you are truly interested in maximizing performance, I think you'll want to find someone who can help you solve the Helmholtz equation specifically for the volume of the proposed body. 

Mass of the body isn't as important as you might think. 

Look at the traditional Tennessee Music Box -- roughly 4" deep, 14" wide and 26'-28" long, with planks (sides/top/bottom/back) averaging about 3/8" thick!   Usually on feet to allow the back to vibrate as well, and a solid (seldom hollowed) 2x2 freboard.   

Without a lot of "messing about", the simplest solution to a LOUD dulcimer is, IMHO,  to build something about the same dimensions as the Tennessee Music Box I described above.  Look at pictures of original TMBs to get an idea of how many soundholes/how much area of hole you'll need for something that size.  Then here's my suggestion.  Make twice as many soundholes as an original TMB of the same dimensions.  Then start blocking off holes two at a time, and see the effect on the sound. 

<crawling back under my rock now... see you when Covid is a memory...>

Dusty -- back then -- 10 years ago -- I was saying I'd been playing 30 years.  Now, 10 years later, I'm saying 40 years...

2020 -1975 = 45 years    "Time flies when you're having fun; fruit flies like bananas." -- Groucho Marx

I play a number of songs very slow --  Londonderry Air, Danny Boy, Amazing Grace, and others.  It's the regular tempo that I'm struggling with -- rather than playing "expressively" to the rhythm of the words, I guess. 

"Like a kidney stone, this too shall pass."  -- Unk Nown

Speed issues with Ariane's Shenandoah Summer Project.  I've spent 40 years playing to the rhythm of the words, and I decided to get involved with her group play project for the challenge.  But 60 beats per minute seems glacial!   Have I mentioned how much I hate those little blue city guys -- metro-gnomes?