Forum Activity for @skip

If you take a heavy [metal] noter [I used a 5/16  x 3 1/2 " bolt] and with a light touch, you can slide the bolt/noter on the string, without the string touching the frets, and change the pitch. You need the mass of the bolt/noter to kill the strings vibration at the point of contact. I also tried a piece of 1/2" steel rod which worked the same as the bolt. I had to use a real light touch because the MD is set up for chord/melody with low set strings.

The frets then act as lines locating the the notes. For the big spaces the note is just past [bridge side] the 1/2 way point between the 2 frets.

But, since you say you had problems with dobro slides, this may not work for you.

The noter acts as a movable fret like a slide on a steel guitar or dobro. So you can actually get the notes in the large spaces as long as you stay away from the frets. One of the advantages of having a high nut/bridge. The frets act like a 'note marker' then. The string isn't stretched as much either.

I don't think the string needs to touch a fret when using a noter. If that's true, it's the answer to the tuning problem [with a bit of practice].

Last nite I happened to think that anything you can cut to size and hold onto would work, screwdriver, chunk of a broom/mop/garden tool, tablespoon, big nail in a piece of wood or file handle, etc. I suppose some would work better than others.

 I used a heat gun in a home built, stove pipe oven to harden mine when I was making split cane fly rods.

Try a dobro [bottle neck] slide. Pretty much the same thing, just bigger and it could fit over your thumb/finger.

You could fire harden the bamboo.

Da book, da book!!

I agree with with Ken H.

I do have one last thing to point out, He bases all his tunings as starting on the melody string [being D for example]. The current concept is to base tunings on the bass string. This difference seems to affect the results in various ways.

I think there's a proofing error there. In his description on page 66-67 he writes"~~where the mode's most major-sounding tonality is found. The Ionian mode originally began at the note C on the third fret." Then in the chart on page 109, in the Ionian row, he has C  under 'original tonality' but in the last column does not have a tuning showing the GCgg  [X  X+3 XX] tuning. Instead he has the CFCC tuning. Further down on page 67, he shows X+3 X XX as a newer tuning [what we expect for this mode].

So if he actually strums CFCC expecting a C Chord???

The VSL doesn't affect the note order, the notes remain the same, they just cover more length.  

 C D E F G A B C

  1  2  3 4 5 6  7 8

  C  G  G

   1  5   5

Two buttons, bim Bim Bom and bim bim Bom.

I've read his chapters on tuning, Mixolydian mode, and other modes and I'm uncomfortable with his approach to "music theory", which is what this thread is about, what's in his book. It seems to be a mixed bag of concepts and, maybe, opinions. 

This feeling is based on everything y'all have taught me along with a lot of time researching and thinking.

Now I'm gonna go hide.  

I can't explain why, but I think the first 4 pages of chapter 4 have a big impact on this subject. It's a whole new way of looking at modes [for me, at least]. It's going to take awhile to digest.

I haven't figured out how the Ionian comment fits yet, probably never will. I don't think the current mode applications [theory?] apply though. He's coming at it from a different angle.

X X+3 XX is his take on DAd tuning. He starts on the melody string[s] [XX] then middle [X+3], then X an octave lower.

I downloaded the book from his site.

Changing strings or tuning isn't going to do much. The problem is the extra height causes the tension for the length to be too much. What may help is to lower the nut [or deepen the notch a bit], make sure the string is touching the bridge as far back as possible and kind of split the difference between sharp/flat [open/affected fret]. It should be ok to be on the slightly sharp side rather than the flat side as flat is annoying and more obvious. If it's less than about 10 cents [usually in the green on the tuner] it is probably acceptable to most folks.

Steven:

LOL I started the same way, with only a sparse, barely remembered, 3rd grade understanding of music,,,,,,,, at 60 or so! It's been an interesting, and fun, trip so far. I've met, or talked, to a lot of really helpful, knowledgeable, folks along the way.

@ Steven

Just look at modes as being the names of a re-ordered scale. CDEFGABC to DEFGABCD is a diatonic [8 note] scale changing modes, all the same notes, different order.

It really will be pretty easy to for you to learn the basics, you have 11 years of music background to help. Many folks start with with with none.

Remember back when you started with the banjo. You probably started with a childs song and picked it out one note at a time on one string. With the dulcimer that's the standard, normal way for n/d and finger dancing. You pick out a melody on the melody string, one note at a time, with no concern for any of the other strings [the're just drones to fill out the sound]. Then you do the same thing but strum across all of the things at the same time as you fret the note. When you've gotten to this point you've caught up with 50% or more of MD players. 

That's it. The larger one fit's over the peg.

Yes, technically, but the only one you fit over the peg is the one you make. You could cut the string but I'v never been able to make a new loop that doesn't come apart. The homemade ones I've seen have about a 1/2" tail perpendicular to the string  to help prevent that and the wraps are tight together.

Put some tape on the end block to protect it an use a file.

Un-winding the loops work-hardens the wire, Try feeding the loose end though the loop [kids lasso] to fit over the peg. If they still break, wrap the wire twice around the peg then through the loop, kind of a reverse tuning pin technique.

Ok. I had the same slipping problem the first time I messed with wood pegs. What I found to work best for me is to push the peg further into the hole as I finished, maybe going a little bit past where I wanted to be.

Have you used wood pegs before? Just curious.

It's probably going to be 1/8" from the sides to the outside strings, another 1/8" between doubled melody and bass strings and  single middle string. The bass set is probably a bass and its octave with doubled melody strings. My 5 string Blue Lion is 5 equidistant strings, 1/8"  sides to outside strings. 

Look really close at where the strings connect to the pins also

I just thought if the tv tray worked it could also be turned into a table/music stand by adding the top [if needed] and a slanted vertical music /tablet holder.

A tv tray may work. There are some with  L shaped legs that are height adjustable. A short board would add extra length if needed.

That's what I use, cell app. I made the recommendation as a starting point. At this time in his journey, if it's screwed up, send it back. I also suspect the op doesn't have a good ear' right now.

@Tull66, Different strokes for different folks.

My first experience in my dulcimer world was to build a kit. No musical or wood working background or mentoring at all. It turned out good, I still have it. I went on to build some from scratch and to buy some, although none were [are] foreign made. Be aware there are poorly made MD's floating around in the US that are wallhangers also, but they are mostly homemade I think. I have a friend who bought a foreign made MD, It sounded ok to me, but he is very experienced and has made some stringed instruments. Actually, I've really never heard a bad sounding MD in 20+ years, cardboard or home built, lucky I suppose. If you decide to get an inexpensive or questionable sourced MD, be sure of the return policy and get an electronic tuner. Use the tuner to verify that the frets are properly placed. Folks here will help with that. A used name brand is an option also.

Bottom line, you started at the right place, here. You're getting getting input from several different viewpoints, from folks with different backgrounds and experience, all of which have merit. 

One other thing, the doubled melody string produces a different sound/tone than a single melody string. 

A couple of other points I forgot, a chromatic will probably be a bit more expensive to buy and much harder to sell.

I think many of the reasons will be be focus on tradition and your music interests which will include style of play [N/D or chording] and need for the extra frets.

It will boil down to what you want plus a bit of DAD [dulcimer acquisition disease].

I am NOT a traditionalist but I find I play mostly traditional [diatonic] music most of the time when I play with others even though my main MDs are chromatic. I use the chromatic side mostly when playing by myself.

I forgot to add, there are 'chromatic tunings' such as DAA#d, but they are 4 equi-distant strings. These are done on the standard diatonic MD.

There are some things to think about for fret installation; 

1. tools; fret saw with depth control, square, hammer/press, measuring device and file[s] for leveling and finishing the ends.

2. where to put the slot

3. the correct size of fret wire

The 6+ is far enough from the nut-0 fret to be rather difficult to place, the 1+ is easy.

It's probably more efficient to pay for a single installation unless you think you may do more of them.

@jost :

Keep in mind that as long as you are playing the melody on one string [the melody string for instance, the other 2 are drones], the tune can be played in any mode [tuning]. Off the top of my mind, DAC [Aolean], CGC [Mixolydian], GCC [Ionian]. This is because a key scale consists of all 7 modes, each mode beginning with one of the notes in the scale. For instance, there is an Aolean mode in each key scale, it starts with the 6th note of the scale as the lowest, or beginning note. The notes are different for each scale, since the "parent key scales" are different.

G key scale = GABCDEF#G [Ionian], EF#GABCDE [Aolean]

D key scale = DEF#GABC#D [Ionian], BC#DEF#GAB [Aolean]

Just for giggles, playing on just one string, no drones, is not a mode or is all modes, take your pick.

I also found this table somewhere in my research. Pretty much the same but there are some differences between this and my earlier chart. 

 Dulcimer mode tunings.jpg - 154KB

You will probably need a chromatic or use temporary frets [paper clips about .040 or tooth picks may work],  tmp frets 0+, 4+, no capo [DAd. Can capo at 3 [DAd] by adding a temp fret at 7+ also.

I wouldn't worry about 'audio quality' right now [you already know what it sounds like], you're just trying to archive the tune.

If you have, and can mostly use, either program you can try entering the note name and matching that with the approximate count of the length of the note played. Just enter the notes/matching count length and see what the app does. Probably use a count of 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and for normal [4/4] [each count is an 1/8th note, 1-and = a 1/4 note] or '1-and-2-and-3-and' for a waltz beat [3/4].

I have absolutely no background in writing music, but, I think your 1st step is to make 2-3 recordings. then determine the average note length, just counting 1-2-3-4  or 1-2-3, 1 and 2 and 3 and, etc., You're working backwards plan. You may be able to make a rough guess by counting as you play. Then see if you can find a timing pattern to fit 3/4, 4/4 etc., to set up the measures. I think using a metronome may be too restrictive.

'Block or street gathering [party] day' for dulcimers on an annual basis.

@dan    Or 'MD Day".

OK  for me although 'Appalachian' sounds a bit 'puffed up'.  Reason, I'm used to referring to it as a mountain dulcimer .   Baaaaaa

{No need for a poll.}