Forum Activity for @strumelia

Yes, that's correct.
To sound good, you'll need to tune your other strings down the same amount (a half step, or a whole step).

Keep in mind that some note intervals have only a half step between them to begin with:  E to F, and B to C. Thus for example a whole step lower than C is Bflat. I find it helps me to remember which are the half-step intervals by thinking " E at F ood, B e C ool". Also, in most music situations, people call "Dflat" Csharp... different name for basically the same note.

Unless you are playing with other people, or practicing along with a recording in a certain pitch, there's no reason you can't tune your whole dulcimer down a step, for various reasons.

What are you up to?  

What an understated beauty, Dan!

I'd be willing to bet though, that there are thousands more currently active mtn dulcimer players today than there were at any particular time between 1880 and 1950.

I personally think it's great to discuss our opinions on dulcimers- whether we're discussing labeling semantics and definitions, or traditional vs modern, or our own preferences and why we have them. If we can't discuss those things here, then where? We can discuss it all without putting down others. Let's continue to share our personal dulcimer experiences and opinions without making judgements on other people who have different opinions than our own. 
I've been a part of practically identical online dulcimer discussions for 25 years, starting with usenet email groups. These discussions are always interesting and stimulating, and I always learn something new from others' posts!

I agree- "sweet sounding" is a highly personal defining criteria. A good example is a penny whistle-  many find it to be lovely and sweet sounding, while many others view it as unbearably shrill and annoying.

A couple of things about that, with apologies for veering off into banjos (but so many similarities exist between the mtn dulcimer and the banjo- both instruments being 'born' in early America from traditions of other cultures that arrived here)... I just can't help myself--

First to clarify a minor point, the fifth string that was added during the banjo's development was actually the low bass string. The higher/shorter "chanterelle" drone string was there from its very beginnings as a slave-made instrument, it was a rhythm and drone feature of the African folk music and the instruments that were the banjo's ancestors.

Indeed, aside from adding a low bass 5th string, when further form changes were added later on to the basic banjo to enable its being played in other settings and musical genres, out of practicality people applied more descriptive names to those "not quite banjos"- such as banjo mandolin, a tenor or jazz banjo, a banjo uke, octave banjo, etc.  These variations are today considered to be different instruments in their own right, and they definitely need their own names. Why? Because they have significant differences in playing techniques, tunings, and musical uses/settings/applications than the "regular" banjo.
To a casual observer, many of these banjo-y instruments might are described as "banjos" because that's what a lay person sees. But if you put a tenor banjo into the hands of a clawhammer banjo player, they'll have to learn an entirely new way of tuning and all new playing techniques in order to play it. To them it's a different instrument, like comparing a ukulele to a guitar. These are practical and real differences, not merely esthetic ones. Does the same hold true of the diatonically fretted mtn dulcimer and the chromatic mtn dulcimer?  IMHO it kind of debatable.

Lastly, as a person to whom the very early original forms of the banjo are most cherished, I must gently add that the later developments and elaborations of the banjo might be considered by some folks to be the nadir of the banjo's evolution rather than the apex.

Again, my apologies for veering off topic.
But then again, what exactly IS the original topic here in this thread? Reasons to not get a chromatic dulcimer? That's a topic that's ripe for this kind of meandering. It's almost inevitable!

The first American-made instruments that were called 'banjos/banzas/banjars' were developed from traditional African instruments such as the akonting. The first official "banjos" had no frets. Then when banjo playing became popular through minstrelsy, banjos began to be mass produced, and with frets. They were called "fretted banjos".
Over time, fretted banjos became the norm and came to be called simply "banjos", while the unfretted ones became known as "fretless banjos" instead of just banjos.
It shows how common names can change according to what variations become more popular over time.

Great reminder, Ken. Thanks!
It's fun to occasionally catch a member in the chat room on FOTMD, and get to know them a little, or to just leave a message there for other members.

Others may chime in here with their own thoughts on this. But in my own opinion, if the dulcimer is in great shape (no cracks, scratches, pegs in good condition, etc) then i think $500 is a reasonable price for a Mize. It might even be a little low, if anything. Chestnut and walnut sound lovely as well.
Just because a price is above what we can pay, does that mean it's unreasonable?
Sometimes when i really want something wonderful that is a little above 'my budget', I will rebalance my budget to fix its priorities, because they are obviously faulty.

Welcome back!  

Another thing i always try to do when putting a brand new string on-
I bring the string up to tune about 1 to 2 steps below the final note it will be at... then i leave it for an hour or so before bringing it up to the final note. This is especially good if you are changing or putting on all strings at once.

When i adjust the tuning on a string, I do two safety things-
1. I always turn my head so my face is turned away as much as possible.
2. And I hover my other hand over the fret board near the middle while I turn the peg. That last part would definitely keep the string length from whipping up at full length to reach my face.  So, in rapid succession I pluck the string to hear it sound, then quickly hover that same hand closely over the middle of the fret board while turning the peg with left hand.
If you are tightening a string a long ways (as when just putting it on), you can even lay a little washcloth over the fretboard as you are getting the string 'in the ballpark'.

Here are some issues to consider when shipping items internationally. Personally, I can vouch for the fact that years ago I received a surprise bill from US Customs for $75 two months after receiving a custom instrument from a luthier in UK. The luthier/sender had no knowledge of this. You may or may not experience one or more of the following factors, and things can change over time. But it's good to be aware:

1-- The sender(or seller) and the receiver (or buyer) involved in an international transaction need to know if there are additional charges associated with receiving the package. On a recent transaction out of country, a receiver was charged more than $30 for taxes and import fees on a package valued at $45.. These charges to the receiver were not disclosed to the sender when the parcel shipped. When the buyer finalized the purchase he did not realize there would be additional charges due when the package arrived.

2- Get a firm commitment from the recipient in writing that he or she will accept the package even if there are additional charges for which he or she would be responsible..

3- The sender should provide to the shipping company an email and or a phone number for the recipient. 

4- The sender needs to know if the parcel is not deliverable for any reason if the parcel will be returned or destroyed. If the parcel is to be returned to the sender is he or she is then responsible for any import fees or taxes prior to return of the parcel. If the parcel is to be destroyed will the insurance cover the cost of the item in the destroyed package.

5- Mark the package return to sender if undeliverable, if that is what you want and if you are willing to pay the cost of returning it to you undelivered.

6- Tracking information for international shipments is not always accurate nor up to date.

Well Dusty right at the moment we have about 2700 members. However, because people often 'move on' to other interests, I like to now and then go in and remove members who have not logged in in several years, just to keep things current. Many times the member count has gone over 3500 and then I've done my housekeeping and gotten it down to 2500 again. Quality versus quantity!
I do however remember the thrill we had here back in the beginning of things when we were so new and small, and we'd reach another hundred members. Good times. And nice to remember members who were a big presence here, who've passed on.

Fotmd member @randy-adams plays a good number of American oldtime fiddlle tunes. There are many others here as well, perhaps not posting as much lately.

(bump) ....from 2009, almost sixteen years ago.  

Ok, I have moved this thread to the "general dulcimer/music discussions" forum.

I think a lot depends on what members are posting videos and audios. Some folks who post a lot of music clips like certain various music genres- like hymns, or early/medieval music, or original tunes, or international folk tunes. There sure are a lot of videos posted here on FOTMD over the past 16 years!

James, did you mean to post this in the "For Sale" forum?  (Just wondering, either you are I can change the location of this thread if you like)

Yes just to clarify-  those screws are not supposed to function to 'hold' the string's tuning in place after every time you tune. They are just supposed to make it a little easier or harder to turn the tuning peg- tightening or loosening the tension of the tuning machine, not the string. As Dusty said, it might be only needed once in a great while. If you notice a tuned string slipping lower in pitch because the peg will not hold it at its note, then that might be a good time to tighten the screw of that peg just a little- only until the peg holds the string in tune sufficiently. If you tighten the screws too much they can strip/stop working.

If it plays well (and i suspect it must), then if you intend to play dulcimer, even just a little for fun, why sell this at all?  It's a hassle to sell and ship a nice dulcimer that needs to be well protected during shipping. And also a hassle for a beginner to find and buy another dulcimer that might have problems that are not apparent to the seller. 
In my humble opinion, you are a lucky person. just start playing it and learning. Learning to play a dulcimer is not hard, and you can add to your playing skills as much or as little as you choose. It's great fun to play beginner tunes.
Maybe that dulcimer was meant to be with you for a while in its journey! 

What an absolute jewel of a dulcimer!  Do you own it, and if so, where/how did you get it?

It's hard to believe that someone would put that much skilled work into an instrument and then not sign it or mark it... is there maybe a label inside that got detached and is just loose inside the instrument? Did you use a flashlight?

Nicely done, @terry-jaye .  Have you tested it out yet? What starter tune are you experimenting with?

Robert, I'm sure you'll get some good tips on instruction books. You may also enjoy browsing through my free blog specifically for beginner noter/drone style players. It includes lots of tips for improving strumming and rhythm, over 30 easy tabs for traditional songs, and help in understanding how to retune and play on the various common modes. DAA (the D being the low bass string) is in my opinion the best tuning to start playing in for those dulcimer players who fret only the melody string.

Here's a selection of blog posts on beginners: https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/search/label/beginner
And some of my posts with free tab: https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/search/label/noter-drone%20TAB

P.S. I'd love for you to post your video among our main video section for all to enjoy more prominently in the future here on fotmd (in addition to it being within this thread)... you just add it from your profile page to 'videos'.. look for a plus sign+ to add a video and description.

Oh my, I am so very impressed with the beautiful job you did in bringing that poor dulcimer back to its former 'glory'.  It is indeed glorious!  What a mess that peghead was, i really can't believe how well you repaired and restored this instrument.    And it sounds just lovely!

From your photos, the middle string is 'barely' over the frets... more only over the rounded ends of the frets. This is fairly common in noter-designed instruments, and is simply to allow for enough of a flat surface for the frets... but it's not intended that the middle string actually be fretted on the fret ends. I do not believe the middle string is intended to be fretted. Perhaps some other makers of traditional dulcimers can chime in on this.

Again, I might suggest slightly lighter gauge strings on this old and somewhat fragile instrument, especially if you intend to tune it to the key of D.

The dulcimer has 3 strings, and the frets are mostly only under the melody string. This dulcimer was designed to be played noter style, with fretting only the melody string and letting the middle and bass strings ring open.
As you mentioned, the orig nut slots positioned the strings so that the melody is centered over the frets, but there is a little extra space between the melody string and the middle string. (in other words, a little more space between the melody and middle string, and a little less space between the middle and bass string). This is on purpose, in order to avoid the end of your noter (or your finger, if you are fretting with a finger) from touching or bumping into the middle string while playing. On all my noter style instruments, I ask for that extra space, rather than positioning all the strings equal distance from each other. It gives 'extra grace' allowance while fretting the melody string. I used to play pretty fast with my noter, and what with varying noter angles as I play on different parts of the fretboard (up to the 10th or 12th fret sometimes), there's a danger of touching the middle string with my noter tip and making unpleasant sounds/muting/buzzing if that happens. The tiny bit of extra spacing for the melody string allows for this and to me at least it is a big advantage having that leeway. This is a logical thing to do particularly if the frets are under the melody string only, clearly indicating the noter/drone playing intention.

Here's a handy page concerning busking/playing/performance on NYC subways:
https://www.mta.info/agency/arts-design/music/subway-performance-rules
You'll have to obey their stated rules on amplification (since you mention 'pickups'). 

A hardshell case might be good to protect your dulcimer while moving around/crowded stairwells, rain, etc.

One cheap solution might be to buy or build a wooden "possum board" to put your cardboard dulcimers on while playing acoustically... such boards do help increase volume and resonance, without electronics. You could make one to fit your existing instruments pretty easily. Do a site search here for "possum board" and you'll find lots of info.

This is a great thread, and what a great old dulcimer! Beautiful wood too.
Just my 2 cents, but for a fragile old dulcimer like that at 28" scale length and a peghead that will need either bracing or restoring, I would put on melody strings of 0.010 gauge, whether you decide on a C tuning or a D tuning. These slightly thinner strings will not be quite as tight tension on the old instrument.  I might put 0.010 melody, 0.010 or 0.16 middle (Dad/DAA) and a .022 bass. middle. I'm assuming you'll maybe try to put in original type wooden tuning pegs after renovating the peghead. You could go with real nice Whitner viola pegs which would look just like old wooden pegs but would tune like machine pegs, like butter.

Yes, I remember that as well, Robin. Good to be reminded!

I have found that the first strings to 'go dead' and sound crappy are usually the wound strings.
The easiest course of action here (pun intended) is to simply put on a new string and see if that solves it. I know that having extra strings and putting on a new string can be kind of a big thing to new players, but it's pretty routine for experienced players of stringed instruments. (not saying I do it all that often... i don't ) 
Chances are a new bass string will sound nicer for you no matter what the issue is right now. Think of changing the string as similar to giving yourself a new toothbrush- you don't necessarily 'have to', but it's not expensive to do and may give you good results.

P.S. do you know what gauge strings should go on your dulcimer according to its scale length from nut to bridge, and the tuning you usually play in? And do you have extra strings?

To my ears, a note does sound more 'clear' when plucked closer to a bridge, but it also sounds more hard and 'tinny' (to me), while a note plucked closer to middle of string sounds rounder and warmer, but I'm not necessarily hearing 'overtones' in it, just a little more depth. The 'tinny' quality strikes me as more of an overtone, if anything. With any description within the human senses, I think there is a certain amount of subjectivity based on personal perception of sound, taste, touch, etc.

@johnr , that is 'too cool for school'!  Something very much to be proud about.

And thank you for supporting FOTMD as well... so kind of you!  

This sounds more like an epinette or maybe even some other instrument than a mountain dulcimer (a ukelin, a psaltery?). The length of the whole instrument is 17"... that is reeeally short. And we don't even know the scale length. Is there any possibility you can attach a photo if it here?

John, that's nice of you to recommend this site to new players. Thanks!  

This is an age old discussion that has been going on for far longer than the 30 or so years I've been into dulcimers.
Is the "neck/fretboard extending beyond the sound box" what defines a mountain dulcimer? Or is it the diatonic fret arrangement? Or is it the number of strings or the double melody course? Body depth and shape? The tuning? We've debated all this forever (in a good way)  :)   With so many tweaks possible in various combos, at what specific point does an instrument change from being a zither, a dulcimer, a lute, a cigar box guitar, etc. Is a guitar with diatonic frets a dulcimer?  Is a mtn dulcimer with a calfskin resonator insert a banjo? Is a stick dulcimer really a dulcimer?- if so, is it still a 'dulcimer' if it's chromatically fretted, or not fretted at all?

"What makes something a dulcimer" has always been a complex question, especially when so many hybrid instruments come on the scene. Often it just comes down to "what to call this".

But there's no 'rule book' -except the generally accepted definitions of musical instrument categories (lute family, zither family) that we've already cited. People can declare what is or isn't a mtn dulcimer til the cows come home, but often it comes down to opposing opinions.

Marsha, what key do you want to be playing in?  Then we can tell you what tuning to use if you want to be playing with that 'medieval sounding' aeolian mode... either with or without using a capo.

There might be some confusion here between referring to "a lute" and referring to a member of the lute category of instruments... being a sound box with an attached neck and strings going over the length of both. Guitars and mandolins are in the lute family. And the zither family being a usually flat sound box without a neck, and strings going the length of the sound box. The mountain dulcimer and the hammered dulcimer are both in the zither family. (according to the Hornbostel–Sachs instrument classification system)

In that video, he is simply putting a capo on fret 1, which changes you to Aeolian mode. Aeolian mode sounds minor and gives you that 'ancient' sound that you are liking as a medieval type sound. But you can put a capo on fret 1 on any mountain dulcimer and get the same thing and play the same music he is playing in the video.... did you know that? 
Unless what you are wanting is the lute-like SHAPE of his instrument, including the neck and the bowl-like body shape. In that case there are several makers of 'stick dulcimers' (dulcimers with necks, technically making them be part of the lute family, rather than the usual zither family of instruments). Stick dulcimers can be found that are not very expensive- try searching for 'stick dulcimer' instead of 'lute dulcimer' and you may find some makers that meet your taste and your budget.