Forum Activity for @strumelia

Brian and I host an old-time music camp-out every year, and we get about 250 fiddlers, banjo players, etc.

We host workshops in Fiddle, Guitar, and Banjo, with different respected players teaching every year.

One thing I notice is that the workshops are always full of beginner and intermediate players. But all the 'advanced' players are seldom there- they are out in the campgrounds, just playing music, not taking workshops.

So I too would be interested in seeing who goes to a class aimed at advanced/expert players. Wouldn't they all just be the teachers, playing together?

Well that certainly lets me out...I'll never be an expert!

Heck, I honestly don't even think I meet all the criteria to be an Intermediate!

Hey, I thought an expert was "Someone who knows more and more about less and less until finally they know everything about nothing".

KenH- I love that story, especially about the Peace Corps and the quest for perfect teeth....lol!

Dan, as ken recommended, our member Randy Adams has almost 100 videos on this site, and many of them are played on fretless dulcimers that he made himself:

Randy's videos

Robin Clark said:

Strumelia - I find that the liberal consumption ofliquor (for medicinal purposes) at such musical sessions improves my understanding of modes and tuningsgreatly

John, Robin usually plays in crowded pubs with bunches of whistles and concertinas and fiddlers, so he probably hasn't noticed all this time that there was something a little 'off' about his mixolydian tunes.

john p said:

Hi Robin,
...Whilst it's true you can play an Ionian tune from the Mixalydian position with a 6+, the reverse is not true, you can't play a Mixalydian tune from the Ionian position....

john

Paul, great post and great explanation. However I see most dulcimer players calling this kind of thing a ' reverse tuning', as in 'reverse ionian tuning for the key of G' for DGdd, etc. I seldom see dulcimer players referring to it as 'new modes' or inversions. Just thought I'd mention that in case anyone gets confused.

Robin, I have several lovely mandolins from waaay back almost 20 years ago when I was learning to play it. I wish after several years of playing I could have sounded halfway as good as you do right now! I think you sound terrific already!

have you learned to do tremolo yet? That's one of the most wonderful things about the sound of the mandolin, and is beautifully incorporated in any style you might choose to play- traditional, folk, 'old world' European ethinic, bluegrass, klezmer, even modern pop and jazz styles. To me, tremolo is the icing on the cake of mandolin playing. I learned how to play the Puerto Rican cuatro (learned actually in the mountains of PR) before trying mandolin, by the way- the traditional cuatro uses a lot of tremolo.

Here's a fun old pic of me (in back) with one of my mandolins- my 1915 Wurlitzer....lol!

Your link works fine now. Nice job Phil !! Great spirit, and love the hat. It sounds real pretty to me.

(Yes, I believe little drummer boy is copyrighted. A good list for checking some carols can be seen here . Thanks!)

That cow will never know that a teeny tiny bit of its leg bone will be making beautiful music for years to come. The fox will never know why such a magnificent gift, because of music. Isn't life funny!

I use Gorilla Snot brand stuff- keeps my picks from escaping my fingers, very grippy and it rubs off easily after you're done playing.

I was just thinking about that when I was looking at the new Wartz n' All group photo yesterday! It's just so great that the internet can bring like-minded people together this way.

We all know that Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer is a place where we meet lots of wonderful 'cyber buddies'.

It occurs to me that there must be some nice stories here about members getting together in person...meeting, playing music, and then becoming real life friends as well .

Let's hear some of these stories to bring cheer during our holiday season and brighten the bleak midwinter. How about sharing your tale of your FOTMD friendship 'jumping ship' into the real world?

Yikes, I remember when PopTarts were invented! I was 10, and it was 1964. Everyone thought they were so exciting and new. Before that there was only toast. My brothers and I wanted them for breakfast desperately, but a box only lasted for a few minutes around our place. I have not eaten a Poptart since 1969.

Congrats Mandy- I know you will be putting that new dulcimer through its paces!

David do you have a link to that site's group location? I've never heard of it, thanks.

David Swanson said:

Also look at the Yahoo group publicdomain dulcimer. They have special sections for Christmas music, and divide up by tuning .

Robin, I'm glad you jumped in here- you have lots of solid practical knowledge in this particular subject!

Nigel, I just want to assure you that things will work out!

Sometimes it's even harder for a dulcimer beginner who already has some music experience and is used to playing in groups with various other instruments, in multi keys. It means you want/need to jump right in and play in various tunings and keys, rather than build slowly on simple skills first. People like yourself get frustrated because the diatonic dulcimer does not behave like the trusty guitar or uke- those darned missing frets! But don't worry (don't fret? lol) ... once you accept that the dulcimer is not a guitar or mandolin, and once you begin to catch onto uniquely dulcimerish solutions and the reasoning behind them, you be full speed ahead again! Believe me, it's not rocket science, and you are a smart man- take one step at a time and very soon the clouds will clear and smooth sailing for you.

To add to the explanations already given- using a capo only to go into different keys:

I'm just a guitar player, very new to theMD, so I'm used to using a capo, to quickly change keys, without retuning.

question...if Nigel is tuned to CGCC for ease of playing simple 3 chord songs in C, couldn't he just place the capo on the 2nd fret to play in E,capo at 3rd fret to play in F, or capo4th fret to play in G ?

A guitar is chromatic- it has all the half steps and all the frets to play in any key by moving a capo around.

If Nigel tuned CGCC and then put his capo on the 4th fret to play in G as you say- he'd indeed be playing in G, but in the dorian mode- anything he played would sound plaintive and sort of minor/sad, because the 'missing' dulcimer frets would mean some notes would be minor of flat sounding and create a whole different sound than what you'd want.

So you can't just do like a guitar player does with a capo.

Here's a fun little exercise I did a while back that shows how the mood of a song changes completely when you go from playing it in its normal mode to playing the exact same song in the Dorian mode- and you'd be getting the same results if you put a capo on the 4th fret:

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2012/03/ghost-of-gray-goosego-tell-aunt-rhody.html

One difference between the function of a 'normal' capo and a 'reverse' capo is- a normal capo merely presses the string down to the fret, so the notes are governed by where your frets are. A reverse capo actually becomes a sort of fret, independent of the real frets. It can be positioned for example in the location of a 1.5 fret and give you that note even if you do not have a 1.5 fret on your instrument. That is an interesting advantage. Another advantage to a reverse capo is that by its very nature it can be positioned under one, two, or all strings- thus being very versatile compared to a 'normal' capo that presses down onto the strings. This is made possible partly because the reverse capo is automatically anchored firmly by the strings that run over it, whereas a normal capo has to have some sort of anchoring clamp that can hold firmly- not easy on an instrument with no neck, as we all know!

Interestingly, even though they are full width staple frets, the dulcimer appears to be set up with the melody string set far from the two drones, as a noter player would like, and the two drones look to be too close together to do any practical fretting. Looks like the original bone bridge that was set up that way. Looks like it was set up for traditional playing and not for chord playing.

It's a beauty!

The tail piece, the scroll shape, the dark reddish wood finish, and the shape of the feet all remind me of c. 1900-1910 era aesthetic stylings.

Oh wow, so beautiful! Did you save any damsels in distress while you were there Ken?

David, you did GREAT. With all that pressure in front of judges, on a stage...I would have made mistakes for sure!

Not only did you not make any mistakes, but you smiled too!

I know what you are saying, Gayle. When i use a tab to learn a tune, it takes me a while to 'get' the tune, and I sometimes will refer back to the tab when i forget parts- Like you, I do sort of 'see' the tab numbers in my mind, but once i play the part many times then again it's the sound that helps me actually 'learn' the tune. Tabs can help me pick my way through a tune that's complex or unfamiliar to me. Learning tunes by ear is a skill that is improved the more you do it, even when you start with something as simple as Mary Had a Little Lamb. Now after many years I can pick up a tune through tab or by ear, but it's when you internalize a tune and play it your way from the heart (no matter how slowly or simply) that it becomes your own. I'm sure we all feel that way.

Mandy said:

Wowzers! You call knowing 75 tunes a smaller number. I would be thrilled to be able to really know that many songs.

I could memorize tab, but listening to tons of version of it being played helps me much more than any tab ever could.

I don't think of it as memorizing a tune. I think of it as knowing a tune. Once i listen to a tune many times, and then play it many times, either alone or with others...that's when I know the tune. I might still make an occasional mistake or lapse, but I'll know it's a wrong note immediately and I'll hear in my head what it was supposed to be.

I learn tunes through several methods- sometimes sheet music, sometimes TAB, sometimes a recording, sometimes from other people playing it live with me so I can learn it. But no matter what method i use to 'catch' the tune, once I know it well I won't need to look at paper anymore.

That said, if time passes I might need a memory jog as Robin said, but usually I can pick the tune back up pretty quickly at that point, because I once knew it under my fingers.

I'm all for really knowing a smaller number of tunes, rather than half-knowing a whole bunch. I usually work on a current repertoire of about 75 tunes, putting other stuff on the back burner for a while. I don't try to 'keep knowing' everything I've ever known how to play well, and when i go back to stuff i knew in the past I often need to refresh it for a while. I've read that the great fiddler Tommy Jarrell only had a repertoire of less than 50 fiddle tunes that he played wonderfully over the years.

More likely it is missing the 6 1/2 fret, which is a fret put in more frequently after the 1960's. It's an option, not a defect.

Your dulcimer is probably pure traditionally/diatonically fretted.

But to be sure, we'll need to see a picture first!

Skip don't feel bad...you are not alone in that aspect. Sometimes information runs out of my brain too, like a sieve!

Strumelia; You pretty much described what I've seen, been involved with. Since your blog is read and referenced by a lot of folks, maybe you would consider adding a section to your blog that ties tunings, not tab, to tunes. These could be lifted from FOTMD posts. Eg.,Good King Wenceslas - Ionian - DAA.

Skip, the problem with what you suggest is that one can use several tunings or methods to play any particular tune or song, depending on one's style of playing and approach, and depending on what version of the song you hear. There is often more than one way to skin a cat. There is seldom only one strict tuning for a particular song or tune.

I cannot take on such a huge project or responsibility as deciding myself what tunings are 'proper' for so many tunes and songs. No matter how carefully it was put together, such a list would be loaded with mistakes, personal preferences, and would be missing alternative tuning choices.

It is far easier to simply learn how to figure out what tuning is needed for a particular song or tune.

Traditional ballads were sung in any key comfortable for the singer. Whether that ballad was 'major' or 'minor' sounding would dictate that you'd need to use either a minor type mode dulcimer tuning (aeolian or dorian), or more of a major type sounding tuning (mixolyd or ionian)- again, the notes and intervals used in a song's mode would dictate which mode you'd need to tune to to play it on a dulcimer....not the key. You still need to tune your dulcimer to a mode so that you have the needed notes to play the song, since the dulcimer is fretted diatonically, with missing notes in the spaces.

In general, you can easily look up fiddle tunes on several handy existing internet sites and see their 'home key' - whether they are traditionally played in the key of A or D on the fiddle for instance. Do you need someone to point you to a couple of those sites?

Old ballads/songs were sung in any key comfortable. Sometimes musicians play mainly instrumental versions and then they might adjust to a key that suits their instruments a little better, and the singer adjusts. Most fiddlers will not like playing in the keys of Bflat or E, for example, and fiddlers don't use capos.

I want to emphasize again to others reading this, that keys and modes are not the same thing. And when we tune our dulcimers, we are actually choosing BOTH a key and a mode, even if we don't realize it. Simplistically put, if a dulcimer player has no 6.5 fret and they tune to DAd, then they will likely be playing in the key of D, in mixolydian mode. If they have a 6.5, they will still be playing in D, but they can play in either mixol. or ionian mode. If they use the 6.5 when they are playing a tune in DAd tuning, then they are playing in ionian mode ...still in the key of D. Skip I bet you know that already but am stating it for other readers' benefit.

Skip, to answer your questions one cannot really toss out the subject of modes, because it is very much tied in with your questions- the dulcimer is a DIATONIC instrument, fretted in modes, and that aspect cannot be separated out no matter how much one might wish it to be.

But all that aside- a lot depends on what music one is playing, and whether one is playing in modern chord style or in traditional noter style.

Traditional fiddle tunes, for example are not all in the key of D! -as you likely know.

Over the past several decades a new dulcimer popularity and a new dulcimer 'industry' has occurred, but many dulcimer players nowadays have very limited musical confidence. They want to avoid re-tuning, and they prefer to play in just ONE key and one tuning or maybe two. They use capos, but even that only rarely. They don't really understand about changing tunings or keys, much less anything about modes. They are comfy playing in groups with only other players like themselves, all on dulcimers, all in D. They go to large festivals and workshops that mostly teach more of this method, and give out more tab to play all in D, and again mostly in one tuning and in chord style. So there is a system in place right now that encourages everyone to remain in D and in DAd and DAA and no one need 'fear' having to learn any other tunings. A big part of the fear of other tunings is because if you play in chord style , changing your tuning means you will have to learn different fingerings for chords....something most folks want to avoid. So that's one reason why folks who play in traditional noter style don't have as much reason to avoid using different tunings. They have learned the simple concept of tuning (their melody string only, not too complicated!) to one of 4 modes. Since re-tuning the melody string like this to play tunes in the 4 common modes seems to be such a shrouded mystery to most DAd chord players, I suppose it may make it seem as though the noter players are 'very, very adept'...but in reality is a real simple skill and no new 'fingerings' are required, which makes it even simpler!

Once you know how to tune into a mode, tuning to different keys is merely a matter of knowing what your strings limits are- where they will become just too tight and break, or too loose to play.

It's a big subject, and one I talk about a lot in my traditional noter playing BLOG.

Hi Rich!

Yes, a longer vsl means the frets will be further apart. Going from a 22" to a 28" vsl will be a big change for you. If you plan to stick with a noter style of playing it might not be any problem for you at all. There is not much 'reaching' or stretching in noter style playing. If you want to play in chord style, however, the finger stretches will be quite longer on a 28" dulcimer than on your 22".

Rich- I moved this discussion to the correct forum.

It's really sooo easy to switch back and forth from DAd to DAC and back, and such a nice lonesome sound! I also like the 'open string' resonant sound much better this way rather than putting a CAPO on fret 1 and playing in E minor.

Congrats on trying DAC and having fun with it, Dennis!

I had a middle string on one of my banjos that has had an annoying 'wolf tone' lately. i tried a few tricks like paper in the bridge slot, and a pad under the tailpiece, but those didn't do a thing. Though the strings aren't that old (6 months?) I changed that one string today and the annoying tone was gone .

mAYBE IF THE SWEAT PANTS ARE ROOMY ENOUGH you can stash a dulcimer in each leg while you're wearing them....just don't sit down! lol

I once saw a cool cloth 'gigbag' that someone made for their dulcimer out of an old blue jeans leg. They lined it with flannel and made a drawstring top. Awesome!

Mandy you sound like a total natural on that mando. Very impressive!

...are you going to change your name to Mandy Lynn now?

Robin T , that's a great tune to add to the dulcimer fiddler repertoire- nicely played!

I find it interesting to note that there is only one note that dips below the tonic in the Lester clip- and that note is really just a rhythm ornament that the banjo player put in, it's not actually part of the tune melody. This tells me that this tune really is in mixolydian mode (it actually doesn't seem to work in other modes), and could be played from the open string tonic position too, if one chose not to use the one banjo ornament note. That one note does add some interesting difference to the tune, though. Just mental meanderings on tunings, versions, and such!

Don't you just LOVE Lester's raw tone on that fiddle? Talk about yummy !

Does sound like a 'Reuben's Train family' tune.

She probably already saw the skinny dipping picture, so John Henry's tuxedo shouldn't be too much of a shock.

Welcome Gayle!