Hey Paul

looking all the way from scotland the semitone interval count looks normal to 10th fret [2212212221] but then goes 2,3,1,2 or thereabouts?

I thought that was unusual but dulcimers are a minority sport over here and I would be fascinated to find out why it would be normal!

I plan to file and sand the bridge and nut down to an acceptable height. That is , as soon as I get up the courage to start. I am not very experienced in these matters.

When I had the temporary bridge in I was able to play it and it sounded nice. The higher bridge really distorts the sound. Makes it very metallic sounding, not to mention out of tune. With the temporary bridge the sound was much warmer.

Since the fret board is only one inch wide and the middle and bass strings are set very close together, I plan on saving this Dulcimer for noter/drone playing. I think it was meant to be played that way. Can't wait to start.

Dave,I don't see anything wrong with the fret spacing. It's hard to judge from a small picture, but it looks OK to me. Bill, try to get the strings to a reasonable height and see what you get. I bet that dulcimer has songs waiting to get out!

Paul

Bill, try moving your bridge back about 1 1/2 ' and check it again. See what the distance is from the nut to the 7th fret,and double that measurement that is where your bridge should be to start.

Maybe I will have to play songs with just the low notes

I am glad you tried the stuff that Paul and I suggested and it seems you are close to a solution.

What still intrigues me is what is happening 'Down the Dusty End' from 10th fret onward.

Visually everything looks fine until you get past 10 then the fret spacing looks all wrong!

The intonation up that end is often suspect due to high fetted tension and short vsl so the frets may have been set to achieve some more regularly used notes but to me they just look wrong!

If you find the time while you are testing it would be ineresting to know what notes you get from 10 on when your scale is correct elsewhere.

Keep up the good work!

Get that puppy down to "nickel & dime" action height!

Thanks but there has been another setback. When I moved the bridge back for the VSL to be 27 inches, tuned it up and it held a normal scale, I was using a temporary lower bridge. When I put the original bridge back, even at 27 inches I was getting a distorted scale. I think the string action definitely has to be lowered. I am going to experiment some more with the temporary bridge before filing down the original bridge but I think that is what I am going to have to do.

It's good to hear progress was made. It's even better since no major surgery or cash outlay was needed. I love it when a plan comes together! When do we get to hear a song?

Paul

Great news!

Now you can let everyone hear it !

As Paul said it seems your bridge is out!

I agree with all he says but describe things a little differently.

Your scale looks at fist glance to be [Counting in semi tone spacing] .....

2212212221 but afterthe 10th fret it goes awry! [There is no 6 1/2 fret]

Assuming the frets are in the correct relative positions then the bridge position should be set so that the 7th fret is exactly half the vsl [distance between nut and bridge] Then check intonation as string height will cause intonation to go out as you move up the fretboard and increase tension when you depress the string a greater amount. Speaking roughly the harmonic bell note at the 7th fret and the depressed note should sound the same if intonation is correct.

Most dulcimers use a low string height however the gauge of string /tension/ pitch of note determine the physical size of the vibration at the mid point and so string height is a compromise to avoid fret buzz and maintain intonation. If you wish to experiment make a temporary single string bridge slightly lower than the original and find the best intonation /string[bridge height] for your melody string. Old credit cards cd cases video boxes etc provide temporary plasic packers to vary bridge height.

Adjusting at the nut is good but is hard to undo!

Mark your desired bridge position with tape and then you can position the existing bridge once you have altered the height if necessary.

If you are going to reduce the bridge height remove material very gradually from the bottom using sand paper on a flat surface such as an old mirror glass.

Good luck and have patience!

It is possible that the bridge is not placed correctly. If it is movable, it may well have been bumped out of position before you got the dulcimer. Start by measuring the distance from the nut to the seventh fret. The bridge should be placed exactly twice that distance, so that the 7th fret is exactly halfway between the nut and bridge. You may need a slight adjustment for compensation, but start with the seventh fret exactly in the middle. Try tuning and playing, to check the string height. If the strings are too high, it not only makes it harder to play, but pressing the strings too far bends the notes sharp. If it's hard to play, try lowering the strings. Adjust the height at the nut first, then if it's still too high up the fret board, lower the bridge a little. Since your bridge is moveable, you may not have to deepen the slots, just file or plane the bottom of the bridge a little at a time to lower it. Try playing it when you are finished, and if it still plays out of tune, you may need to compensate the bridge by moving it slightly towards the nut or bridge. It may need to be slightly further from the nut at the bass string than the treble strings.

Paul

It is certainly possible I am misreading or even misusing my tuner. I have only been at this three months and what I have learned has come mostly from experimentation and reading this website. I did however repeat it several times and got the same results. I am going to listen to the instrument some more rather than focus on what the tuner says and see where I am at. Thanks for your help it is much appreciated.

You do NOT have a 6+ fret, so don't worry about that fret/note on Lisa's picture of a fretboard.
Don't worry about equal vs just temperment; the differences between them are sublte and only applicable if you have perfect pitch or play with others (and perhaps not even then)

The keynote to which a dulcimer is tuned will not effect the do, re, mi, scale, just the notes of that scale. Tuning to C and being just vs equal temperment would not account for the differences your indicate.

I hate to judge a person' skills, but is it possible you're reading your tuner wrong? Where you indicate D# and C# etc are those a D or G that are just one the sharp side of C or D, or are they truly a C# and a D#. I have trouble with the sequence at the start of yours where you call them A C D D# F. That is the open A plus frets 1, 3, & 4. Seems almost impossible to me to only a half step note increase (D to D#) with very reasonable spacings shown between the frets.

A C D D# F G A B D E F# G# C# D# F# your dulcimer
A B C# D E F# G A B C# D E F# Lisa's chart

Thanks for your replies. I am not only new to dulcimers but new to music. I think I got this. My other dulcimer which was made in the past year I assume has equal temperament tuning. When an open string is tuned to A it follows Strumelia's fret chart as you move up the frets. I tried to apply that to my restored Dulcimer using an electric tuner and the scale I posted is what came up at each fret. However I think what Ken is saying is that if played it gives a clean do re me do not worry about my tuner? I will have to try that. I will also re-check the gauges but I did use the string guage calculator at Strothers.com and came up with 22 for D and 14 for A. One other thing, the fellow I bought this from thought it had been tuned to C but could not really remember. If this is a just intoned fret board tuned to some combination of old tuning beginning with C, would my tuning to D take it out of tune or throw off the doe re me scale? I am going to lower the action and play around with tunings and gauges but If that doesn't work I only paid $20 for it and for that price it would still look good on the wall.

Bill, here's a picture from Steven Smith's site showing the notes on a typical dulcimer fretboard when tuned to DAd:

The top string would apply to any string tuned to D, the middle string shown would apply to any string tuned to A.

Not all dulcimers have a "6+" fret.

Are you not getting these same notes on the various frets on your dulcimer?

Well, bill, I don't know from A C D D# ... but if you tune the melody string to A, and don't get a reasonably clean do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti, do scale when fretting up from the 3rd fret to 10th fret, there's not much you can do except wall hang it as a unique piece of folk art. I'd hate to mess up that nice carving on the fretboard by taking out frets and re-setting them at different locations.

"...don't know what to do with the scale..." Huh? If it sounds good, you play it -- after you lower the action about a foot and a half . All that will take is some serious sanding and re-cutting of string notches. Nothing wrong with a 24"-25" VSL. You can still tune it DAA, but you'll want to check a string gauge chart to make sure your've got appropriate gauges.

I have attached pictures of the Bridge and tailpiece. Both the Bridge and Tailpiece were floating but I put them back exactly where they were. It has a short VSL of only 24 3/8". It sounds fine to me in open tuning but I just do not know what to do with that scale.

Here are some more photos of the front of the headstock and the Fretboard

I finally found the time to work on this old dulcimer. Since it was plywood I felt comfortable using Murphy's Oil Soap and I think it came out ok. I used WD-40 on the tuning gears and it loosened them right up. The only problem was that the screws holding the gears to the head piece were stripped. When I tried to re-string the tuners pulled away from the head piece. I replaced the screws and that seemed to take care of that.

My main concerns now are with the fret scale and height of the strings above the frets. I tuned the open strings to DAA but the melody line runs a scale of A C D D# F G A B D E F# G# C# D# F#. I am wondering if my dulcimer is just intoned or just out of tune? As I said earlier this dulcimer is a 40 year old reproduction of an earlier dulcimer. The Fretboard is only one inch wide. The strings sit high off the fretboard and it came with a monster sized noter. I think it was meant to be played noter drone but I really don't know if it is playable. HELP! I attached some photos.

Definitely not a kit! What an unusual design. So much body aft of the bridge, and such a large single sound hole. Very interesting. I hope you can eventually post a sound cut so we can hear it.

Here are some pictures. As soon as I got it I used a slightly damp papertowelto get the heaviest dust off. It is still pretty dusty, especially in the crevices along the fret board. The board is decorated with a floral design the builder told me he hand burned into the wood.

Dust with dry cloth and clean inside with short blasts of compressed air. Then clean with very diluted Murphy's Oil Soap as per instructions on package. Wipe dry immediately. May require several treatments because old dust can become a slurry. I sometimes use a very soft old toothbrush to work on especially dirty areas. A toothpick with a bit of cotton ball works well too. Be patient in removing the guck (scientific term) and be sure to allow more time than you think is needed before before applying the lemon oil. You might try cleaning tuners with very gentle use of 0000 steel wool.

Thanks for the input. I am trying to upload some pictures but they are on my iPad and I see the uploader requires flash. I will send them to my computer and upload later. Its my understanding that the fellow made it from scratch. That it was not a kit. He copied it from an older wooden one he had at the time but is long since gone. I can't wait to clean it and restring it. Even with the old rusted out of tune strings it has a nice loud sound coming out of the sound box for a narrow dulcimer. I am going to measure it and put its measurements in a later post.

That old? Yeah, I think a mild Murphy's solution wetting a rag to wipe with, and then wipe dry, would be just fine. Not sure you'd need lemon oil after though... And a dab of 3-in-1 in the gears, if they are open or you can remove the covers, will not hurt anything either. Show us a picture. I'll bet it's an old Hughes kit; they were pretty good kit instruments back in the day. That's what I started with about 40 years ago. Sure wish I still had it...

Bill, not being able to see the instrument, I'd put just a little lemon oil on the tuning gears as well. Don't hurry them, let them soak a day or so, reapply then try them gently. If the strings are old, you might catch them off some way and cut them to relieve the tension on the tuning gears. That might help too.