Forum Activity for @strumelia

Diane, I like your plan.

Everyone's different. here's my own journey-

Long ago I used to buy real inexpensive bargain instruments as a first instrument. I usually found I wanted a slightly better one only a couple months later, and I then I'd avoid the hassle of selling the cheapo one in order to buy the next level up. Repeating this pattern, I wound up with too many cheap instruments that were a pain in the butt to resell. And some of them had 'issues' that I didn't feel good about passing on to the next person. My personal epiphany came one day when I wanted a really awesome banjo (after playing for two years), but I felt overwhelmed and discouraged by the fact that I had EIGHT cheap Ebay impulse buys hanging on my wall- gathering dust and not very playable for one reason or another. I buckled down that year and sold ALL of those cheap problem banjos. I learned that for me at least, it made way more sense to buy 1 quality $350 instrument during the first two years than three $125 ones during that same first two years.

From that, I learned it was a better plan for me to first do a little homework online, and then to buy something that wasn't the cheapest level. Buying a mid-range instrument is not only easier and nicer to play, but it's also actually easier to re-sell without taking a loss, should you either give up playing or want a more custom instrument later on.

That's just my own experience.

I'd like to also mention that Lark in the Morning is I believe run by Larkin Bryant and her husband (is it still?) and they are good people. If you can possibly go try out what they have in person, it might be a smart way to comparison shop before you plunk any money down. I know it's hard to not go for instant gratification, but sometimes a couple weeks of shopping around can pay off bigtime, with benefits that last for a long while to come.

Fotmd received your donation- thanks so much Pamela!

Thank you so much and hope you sell your dulcimer quickly. :)

Please read before posting an item for sale:

For Sale forum listings must be for  an actual currently existing item  for sale (a CD or book, a specific single instrument, a music stand, photos of some specific dulcimer wood pieces for sale...) and the ad must include a photo of the item being sold. In other words, no open-ended, ongoing listings like "I make dulcimer stands", "I will make you a custom dulcimer", "Music lessons available", "I make bamboo noters", "Selling various wood for building", etc. It needs to be  the actual existing item for sale, with its photo and price. Large items like instruments are limited to ONE item in an ad- small items like noters or earrings can be 5 items per ad...with photo and set price of actual items for sale. For complete details of what is or isn't allowed in the For Sale Forum ads, see the site rules HERE .

For years this site has provided a: For Sale forum  ... free to use for all members.  Over the past few years, our site maintenance costs have slightly increased, and our total member donations have slightly decreased. 
To avoid falling into the red, I'd like to ask that anyone who uses this forum to advertise and successfully sells items totaling more than $100 to please make a $5 donation to Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer , to assist in keeping up with our 'rent'. This applies also to items sold on Ebay but advertised here on FOTMD. I ask that you please donate $5 for every completed Ebay sale of over $100 that you have listed here to our members.

I do not ask this of sales of less than $100 -unless you've sold enough of them to make more than $100, such as having sold ten or more CDs for example- however no donation will ever be refused.

FOTMD's Paypal  Donation Button is located at the bottom of our site's Main Home page. You need not actually have a Paypal account to use the donation button- a credit card works fine with it. Donations are processed through Paypal's secure server, so no worries there.

Though it's easy to keep track of who has donated and who has not, I don't really want to have to remind or notify people, so this request is based on the honor system. Please do remember to click on the Donation Button and make your $5 contribution to the site after selling goods or services of over $100 that you have advertised in our For Sale forum.

With your help we can keep FOTMD running smoothly and all paid up!

Thanks so much,

-Strumelia

Beth,

First, this post in my traditional playing Blog may help you tune:

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-notes-do-i-tu...

I will try to answer a few of your questions:

And, I understand it, the melody line is played on the string closest to one's body when held on the lap. And, that is string gives the highest notes. (Or those two strings if one has double melody strings.)

Correct.

Now, If I'm right in this, the other two strings are both lower than the melody string.

Correct.

Here is my problem. If I tune to DAaa, the aa strings are my melody strings. I have a very limited range left in my voice. a below middle c to c above middle c is the best I can stretch on a good day.

Is it possible to get strings for the melody that will tune to low A? And would it have to be a wound string?

You will actually be tuned to DAA (or DAAA), not DAa or DAaa. The melody string(a) in this tuning will be tuned to the EXACT SAME note (A) and in the SAME OCTAVE as the middle string A.

Most importantly- if tuned to DAA you will usually be playing and singing in the key of D , not in the key of A .

People normally dont put heavy low wound bass strings as melody strings.

Or should I just tune to DAaa and sing an octave lower than the notes I'm playing?

Tune to DAA (since double melody strings are usually tuned the same as a pair, we usually just give them one letter, not two, when naming the tuning) and you'll be in the key of D (the melody will be based around the THIRD fret, a D note, not based around the open melody string which an A note). Sing in the key of D, in whichever octave suits your voice. Or sing a harmony to what you are playing. Or, tune all your strings DOWN one step from DAA to CGG and you'll be playing and singing in the key of C instead of D, which might be easier on your voice. Lots of us do this. I suggest you just start in CGG and learn to play a simple song like Hot cross Buns or Frere Jacques, rather than trying to transpose guitar or uke music right off the bat. You need to understand the very most basic simple concepts of tuning and playing the dulcimer, without worrying about what you do on other instruments ...for now.

I give a lot of this kind of advice in my noter-drone traditional playing dulcimer Blog, here: http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/

Beth, I don't know what the norm is on pianos, but I can say that on dulcimers and banjos, a lower case note letter is in a higher octave than an upper case letter. Thus, a standard banjo tuning of gDGBD shows the shorter "g" drone 5th string as being an octave higher than the middle string G. You should also know that these days it is customery to name/write out the dulcimer tuning starting with the low bass string first. So- for example a dulcimer tuning of DAd means the first "D" is the lowest bass string, and the last "d" is the highest melody string which is tuned an octave higher than the bass string D.

Loop end strings will stay put better for you on the little hitchpin.

Always have extra strings on hand, strings do break occasionally, it's normal.

Becca, that's a big decision that only you can make, but remember you can always wind up starting with one and then playing both instruments later.

Here is the best place to learn more about how to play BP's and what beginner tools to get: http://psalterystrings.ning.com/

If you tune your BP strings properly, you cannot play 'out of tune' since there is no fretting done- all strings are played open. However, with either instrument you can play wrong notes! LOL.

Being that you have access to more direct learning support in your area for mtn dulcimer, my first impulse is to advise you to get a mtn dulcimer and take a few lessons. Perhaps you could borrow/rent one for a couple weeks before you buy, and get 2 lessons?

This all sounds wonderfully helpful. Be sure to post the links here on this thread to the great videos you guys are referring to!

Helen, also keep in mind that in learning something new, you never have to completely change everything all at once. Continue doing as you usually do, then take a few minutes at each practice to experiment with the new technique. Over time it will seem easier and then you can decide whether you want to incorporate it into more, or all, of your playing.

Yet one more video about where to put in extra strums, or not: http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2010/01/video-tips-for-beginners-where-to-add.html

Ultimately, as others have said, you should do what makes you feel good , whether it's learning new stuff or continuing what you are doing now.

Gail Webber said:

I guess that high silvery sound is really what I am looking for.

Of course, to really bring out a 'silvery' effect, you'd want to try playing with a noter- that's where the bestest zzziiiiiiiiing! comes from.

Descriptions of sound are subject to variation based on people's definitions of things. To one person, a 'traditional sound' may mean bright and high...to another it might mean sweet and quiet. So rather than my attempting to define what is a 'traditional sound', I simply say that soft soundboards (spruce etc) and larger/deeper soundboxes usually produce rounder more mellow tones, while shallow/smaller soundboxes and hardwoods tend to produce a crisper brighter sound.

I know exactly why I myself sort of have to look at the fretboard when i play dulcimer ... when I play banjo, not only are my fingertips pressing on the fretboard, but my left hand or at least my thumb, is curled around the neck and thus giving me a physical reference point , a sense of where 'home' is for frets 1-5. Much the same as when folks plant a pinky when flatpicking across strings on mando, guitar, bluegrass banjo, and dulcimer too. Without that pinky plant, it's much harder to pick individual strings accurately when not looking- the pinky tip is the reference point. even with clawhammer banjo, most folks at least have their thumb on the back of the neck and it works well as a reference point. I can play banjo pretty well without fretboard looking, but not dulcimer.

With a mtn dulcimer, we don't have our left hand wrapping or curling around the neck for a reference point, once you go up and down the neck either fingering notes or using a noter, it's hard to know where the frets exactly are anymore. Of course this is a skill that can be developed and improved (look at highly skilled hammered dulcimer players), but most folks use the eyes becasue the physical reference point is not there as it is with necked instruments.

I know I have a terrible time when we play at night while camping, if we are playing by low lantern light and my fretboard is not getting any light at all. A good exercise is to try playingh for varying time lengths with your eyes closed....quite an education!

All that said, I'll look at my fretboard if I please to! :)

Happily, most players of those instruments do eventually learn to incorporate melody lines, to one extent or another.

Ken Hulme said:

One of the things I personally never cared for with guitar (or banjo, mandolin etc) was the fact that every player I knew only knew three chords (as it were) and could not play melodies.

Paul said:

If you play using drones, you effectually make every song a one chord song. This is another possibility you may want to consider. You then can demonstrate the same song using chords, and discuss the difference in how it sounds. These are both just different ways to approach a song.

I think Paul was not saying they then become one chord songs- he said it 'effectively makes it' (in effect, in practice) a one chord song- meaning you can play it without playing/fingering any changing chords. :)

Does your daughter play any instruments currently? is she very young?

I am excited about your folk fiddle project and I want to see pix and know how it turns out!

Hey Mark, I just listened to your music clip and left a comment on your page- i really like what you did with your playing.

Kay, you might feel a bit better if you read my blog post on the frustration of not sounding better more quickly:

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-is-it-taking-so-long-for-me-to.html

Dusty, you are a gold mine of info.

Robin, I didn't have a chance to listen to your clip until now- it sounds so rich and old style- really great.

There are some folks playing guitars of the 1800's in the Minstrel genre groups, they are amazing and lovely smaller parlor guitars, but must be kept tuned lower as the banjos also were low tuned during the 1800's. They were just not built to withstand modern high steel string tunings. Robin, your guitar was built a little later on, was yours originally strung with gut or steel strings, do you know?

This original 1850's Ashborn guitar is now strung in Nylgut (originally strung in gut), and is regularly played in lower-key minstrel style sessions:

Though I have my own personal feelings on situations like this, I can certainly empathize with both views.

I think this discussion has thoroughly represented both sides of the issue at this point. So before it gets into further back and forth, I'm going to close it to new responses and leave it at that. Others can read it and hopefully make their own informed decisions. Thanks everyone.

That's a real bummer. Way too much money for a problematic poorly built dulcimer, and no returns... I feel for you.

Hi Rich,

Perhaps my dulcimer-blog lesson on fretting finger tips would be helpful to you:

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2012/07/lazy-fingers.html

That is a real beauty! Looks all original and mint condition to me- I wouldn't change a thing except to put fresh strings. But also worth writing down the gauge of the strings on it first, or save them in a little labeled bag...as they look like they might well be the original strings put on by Mr. Glenn. It's a lovely gem and so nice that it hasn't been tampered with, after all these years.

To me Rhody has always sounded like a simple lullaby that a mother might typically make up while singing to her baby. I used to make up such melodies myself as a young mother trying to get my babies to sleep, but I can't remember now any of the tunes I invented so long ago. Many were somewhat rhody-esque in one way or another. Other lullabies I sang were in Spanish and had the same simplicity as Rhody too, these were in Puerto Rico where my babies were born.

Hi Stephen, I wouldn't conclude that Aunt Rhody came from a hymn, based on a 1930's 78 recording. I'd be much more likely to guess the hymn on the 78 was built around the old melody, since traditional melodies are so frequently borrowed and new lyrics are applied, and vice versa of course.

The current familiar Rhody song with melody was written down in books already in 1913 and 1918 in appalachian ballad collections, and had already been passed down for a while by then, but the melody was also apparently included in a 1752 folk opera by Jean Rousseau, and was sung by a shepherdess character. Perhaps Rosseau was the Aaron Copland of his time, incorporating traditional rural folk tunes into his musicals...

Stephen Seifert said:

The melody of Go Tell Aunt Rhodie is from an old hymn. I've got a recording of an old 78 (maybe from the 30's) of a guy playing and singing Go Tell Aunt Rhodie to the exact melody of the hymn (I can't think of the name right now) and the form is AABA.... Could someone help us find the hymn?

Tina, if you are in Daaaa tuning, you will be able to play any tab in my noter blog that is labeled as being in ionian mode, just as is . Don't worry about the keys I suggest for the songs, or about 'reverse' tuning- as long as you are in Daaaa you can play all the ionian tabs without making any changes. That will be enough to get you started at least! The only numbers in my tabs are for the melody strings, so you won't have to worry about making chord shapes to play them.

Tina Carlson said:

Thanks for your help! Strumelia.. I've been reading through your blog while waiting for my instrument to be finished. I'm excited to now sit down and PLAY through your blog.

Many such instruments were played on a table rather than on the lap- you may find that more stable or more comfortable.

Your instrument almost looks more like an epinette to me than a scheitholt. Tell us the measurement in inches from the nut to the bridge.

It's lovely!

R N Lackey said:

Depends on how long you want to play and how much the audience changes.

Hey thanks guys. Actually, the last 'call to arms' was over a year ago i think, and we might need another reminder soon...

I think Stephen's original post questions are important and fascinating.

Stephen said:

I recently heard someone bemoaning there just aren't as many non-tablature/by-ear folks as there used to be. They talked about how all the clubs seem to be more standardized and tablature based. I suggested to him there are not only more tablature players than ever, but also more non-tablature/by-ear folks than ever.

Getting back to the main subject of Stephen's original post above --

1) Yes there seem to be more dulcimer players overall than ever before...more players of all kinds.

2) Yes the clubs are more standardized and tablature based. Unless they diversify their approach they will continue to naturally mostly attract those who play from tab. (nothing at all wrong with that, if that's what they like).

3) Yes there are more non-tablature/by-ear/variedtunings/noter/diatonic type folks than ever. They tend to play with other musicians because they play/learn by ear and consequently they can manage to play along in various music jamming situations. Thus they have less interest in attending the dulcimer club scene, and less interest in attending dulcimer festivals that offer 90% of their workshops based on the tab/DAd/chording players. They are more likely to attend music gatherings that feature jams with various instruments, such as general folk or old-time festivals. Mind you, I don't mean to imply that they are more 'advanced' in their playing than the tab players- but rather that they can learn from a wider range of methods and don't have to translate everything into D/tab/chording format in order to learn a tune.

4) Even though there is a higher number of all types of dulcimer players overall than there was 15 years ago, I do also see the proportion changing rapidly . Within that whole, the percentage of diatonic/noter-drone/Galax/traditional/by-ear players is increasing by leaps and bounds, older beginner players too are interested in those areas of playing, and people in general are i think more wanting to play with other musicians and friends, not just in club/tab-book settings of dulcimers only. Ten years ago on EverythingDulcimer forums, I remember it was a rare treat to read posts about diatonic, drone playing, noters, Galax, playing with fiddlers or old-time sessions, etc. DAd chording/flatpicking pretty much ruled the day. Even fingerpicking topics seemed a bit outside the norm, as I recall...lol!

All that has changed now- these traditional playing genres and learning methods are super hot topics for everyone, even older beginners are eager to jump into such areas of play. It's great , now in addition to the most common tab/chord approach, there is much wider diversity of interest, information, and learning! Something for everyone's tastes.

James, I too enjoy using tab for various reasons. Tab is the home grown musician's practical way of writing down what they play, and tab notation has been in use for generations and on many instruments. I don't think you need worry one bit about tab becoming extinct.

I totally agree with everything you've said here, Stephen.

More dulcimer players of all types now- and the proportion of noter and quill and diatonic and chromatic/blues/rock and Galax and box dulcimer and mixed instrument jam skills and traditional and singing and WestCoast and DAA and by-ear players is getting bigger. I do think that festivals/workshops/clubs/learningmaterials need to take stock and get with the new changes...they are really lagging behind, stuck in focusing too much on same-old-same-old chord/DAD/flatpicking/tab-book, especially festival workshop offerings which seem to repeat the same subjects over and over. Shake it up already! Not everyone is ready for the nursing home, and senior players too are eager and able to learn some new things and have a hoot trying!

Stephen you are skilled and passionate enough to set an example for many.

As soon as I began to focus on noter style playing, even as a relative beginner to the style, I stopped going to festivals, dulcimer music camps, and workshops, and I stopped buying newer instructional material- simply -because there just wasn't much being offered for me. If festivals offer 90% of their courses aimed at chording/DAD players (whether flatpicked or fingerpicked), then those are the players who will find it worthwhile to go to that festival...others will tend to stay away rather than invest the time and money in attending.

The above-mentioned focuses are no longer 'novelties' that only merit a 5 minute passing mention in workshops. Many more people of all ages and all levels are serious about pursuing such focuses in depth now. This was not the case even as recently as 5 or 6 years ago.

It reminds me a little of a Leonard or Clifford Glenn instrument, but the taper of the body near the peghead isn't quite the same.

It's a lovely dulcimer!

Awesome. Happy playing, Ken!

John, that's funny.

Ed, I like that ! And, there is always someone who plays worse then us, and someone who plays better than us.

Ken, you make some great points. But one problem I have with your definitions criteria is that it calls for everyone to be able to play in more than one style in order to be classified as an intermediate or advanced player. Some folks are very advanced players in their chosen style of playing, -why should they have to be able to play in multiple styles in order to be considered anything other than a beginner? This is definitely not true in the banjo community for example- imagine if all clawhammer players were classified as beginners unless they could play banjo in bluegrass style as well...!

I also feel that 'performing' should not necessarily be a requirement for evaluating players. Some folks don't want to perform for one reason or another, but I feel some of them are highly skilled players regardless of that.

P.S. Dusty, Robin, FF,.... isn't there an old Anglo ballad by the name of "False Nut on the Road" ...?