Forum Activity for @strumelia

The Jeffreys I test drove a few months ago was a lovely thing- normal scale length but quite shallow, lightweight, and smallish box compared to what we usually see being made today (so many boomy 'dreadnought dulcimers' these days...lol!). The main reason I didn't buy it was that the fretboard was only 1/2" high and that made it very awkward to play with a noter. There was not sufficient room for my hand or knuckles while sliding up and down, didn't seem to matter how I held the noter. This was an odd feature for a diatonic dulcimer which naturally favors traditional playing styles. It wouldn't be an issue if someone only played by fretting with the fingers on the melody string (fingerdancing). At the time I wondered if all his fretboards were low like that, and it also made me wonder if he himself had any experience in playing with a noter.

There is an A.W. Jeffreys dulcimer for sale right near me, for $175 (without shipping). It's in pretty nice condition- original pegs, diatonic. All walnut with I think a poplar top. I went to look at it. It's nice, but the fretboard is 1/2" high- not high enough for me to play comfortably with my noter. It's a light and graceful thing, I think made in the early 70's. Within 45 min driving distance of Albany NY.

Yes, I think we may be saying the same thing just in two different ways. ;)

folkfan said:

Carson, I'm going to say that "Old Time Music" is definitely more that just a core of basic tunes and songs. It is by this time developed into a genre of music with it's own sound coming from a basic cultural core but spiced with a variety of other cultures musical ingredients.

You can play the core of music without the sound that is now associated with "Old Time Music"

I have a different view on it. After all, a good chunk of Bluegrass music is from old-time songs, tunes, and ballads but played in a more modern bluegrass style. I don't think of it as 'old-time' music then- it's then bluegrass music, derived from old-time music sources. If someone played Shady Grove in Latin salsa style, it wouldn't be old-time music. And it wouldn't be bluegrass then either.Thus, I think of old-time music as being both the material (due to its age and other very distinctive characteristics) and the style in which it is played. It certainly can be a shadowy defining line between things sometimes though. Sometimes things are hybrids of two styles or two sources, etc.

My favorite top ten old-tune music TUNES?- you mean instrumental as opposed to songs or ballads?Hmm....favorite old-time tunes that I like to play...Here are a few in no particular order:Brushy Fork of Johnson's CreekHell up Coal HollerCold Frosty MorningTexasLady of the LakeLet's Hunt the HorsesJeff SturgeonOld Jimmy SuttonJack WilsonYew Piney mountainCallahanChinqapin HuntingI just realized that almost all the above are minor/modal tunes. =8-oIf you mean ballads/songs, that's a whole different list.

Interesting reminder, Folkfan!Let's keep in mind that early American music was influenced by various other ethnicities and cultures besides English, Irish, and Scottish.In old-time music one can hear the definite influence of African rhythm in particular, and there were also influences of the French, Native Americans, Scandinavian, Spanish, German, etc etc....But the African influence is clearly there, with rhythm (especially as contributed with clawhammer/gourd banjo and tambourine/bones), also as early blues scales (applied to both the instrumental music and singing).I do know that as an 'american old-time' musician, I have a terrible time trying to play along in Irish sessions. Even if the tune is one I already play in old-time style...the rhythm is so different, I mostly fail! The rhythm difference really trips me up- to me it's almost like trying to write on a paper while looking at it in the mirror. =8-o

I just made a twelve string guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Oh Dick what a marvelous story, and such great photos!It made my evening to read it. :)

A simple dulcimer or scheitholt with a floating bridge?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Yes indeed, a man after my own heart! ;DConsider Ben Seymour of North Carolina. Ben is not only reasonably priced (in my opinion), but he is very into the early scheitholt reproductions and will build you just about anything you desire. Here is his website's page of 'Scheitholtesque Beauties' .Ben made my wonderful cherry Galax dulcimer and I can't recommend him highly enough. Ben also happens to be a member here on FOTMD, here is Ben's Page here on this site.

Bowing a dulcimer

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I'd love to see you doing that too!

Bowing a dulcimer

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Richard Graham said:

Anyone remember those round back guitar from the 70's? They fell out of your lap like a drunken cheerleader at a frat party!
Berimbau

I don't know about guitars, but....The old european bowl back mandolins fell out of favor in America once mandolins began to be used in american style stringbands around 1920 and on. As I myself have found, they are very difficult to hold still against your stomach or chest while standing to play, as in a stringband setting on a stage. They slide and tilt too much because of the round back, not that they fall (since they have a shoulder strap). Sitting with one in your lap was not as much of a problem.European dulcimer ancestors were more often played on a table. Americans seem to have developed a preference for playing the early american dulcimers in their laps. I have equal difficulty keeping hourglass, teardrop, and galax eliptical dulcimers on my lap while playing fast fiddle tunes- I need a strap. The 'balance' effect of mirrored bouts doesn't seem do a thing for me to keep the instrument stable on my lap to play, i'm afraid. I seldom strum in the strum hollow- I find further up to give the best 'bounce' and tone. Usually about at the halfway point between the bridge and wherever I am currently fretting. I do the same with banjo.Now having the fretboard in the middle of the instrument might indeed make it easier to play on the lap. It would also make it easier to bow I'd think, though weren't some of the european ancestors/relatives bowed on a table, such as the Langeliks?It will be interesting to me to see how this works itself out when I get my 'traditional' style epinette des vosges next Spring. I'll report back here if I can remember. :)

Bowing a dulcimer

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Richard Graham said:

Again it's far easier to strum a faster tune on an Appalachian dulcimer than it would be on a sheitholdt or other earlier zither form Berimbau

Hi Berimbau,Can you explain why you feel this is so?thanks!

Epinette des Vosges

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Michael Vickey said:

Deborah measured the VSL - 27 inches.

Wow, so that's like about the same size as a regular mountain dulcimer! Pretty big.The Epinette des Vosges I am having made for me will have a scale length of somewhere around 19". =8-oI imagine the two instruments will sound very different from each other!

Epinette des Vosges

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I find this interesting- the way it has the effect of two soundboxes. It's almost like an epinette on top, mating with a mountain dulcimer! =8-o I've never seen pix of an epinette des V. with an hourglass shape before. I'm guessing it's an innovation/experiment by the luthier, but i might be wrong about that.In any case, it's pretty amazing!

Epinette des Vosges

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Wow, what an instrument! And 8 strings, too.Do you know what its scale length is?

Only 10 to go till 200 members

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LOL razyn said:

Here's some individually wrapped leftover Halloween candy -- not everybody on FOTMD is so @#$% healthy...

Only 10 to go till 200 members

OFF TOPIC discussions

Rod Westerfield said:

no problem.. here's your cider... pass the cookies please...

Sorry, I ate the last ones. Have a pickled egg instead.

Only 10 to go till 200 members

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Robin- yes seems like just a couple weeks ago that 'little baby Fotmd' was born. Remember when it was only about 6 of us? ;D I was so worried that not much more would happen.(Rod, pass that cider on down the table, wouldja?)

Only 10 to go till 200 members

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Michael Vickey said:

300 this morning!
Break out the bubbly.Congratulations, Strumelia. Thanks for creating the FOTMD site.Michael

Thank you. :)Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer is growing slowly but surely (I think it's about four months old now).The best thing is that so many of our members are actively participating and really seem to enjoy being part of our little community. FOTMD is vibrant and full of bright enthusiasm!When I created it, I envisioned a place where both advanced players and brand new beginners could learn and grow side by side, and feel equally at home. A place that would appeal to advanced players yet have its highest goal be that of encouraging beginners. It amazes and delights me that FOTMD seems to be fulfilling that vision exactly. Its members are what make FOTMD special and successful ....it is each one of YOU who should be thanked the most! :)

Only 10 to go till 200 members

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razyn said:

In case y'all aren't counting, it's almost time for the 300-member international picnic and dulcimer jam.
Pickles and cookies, hmm... what else would be good with that?I have some home made apple sauce!

Gosh, it seems like just yesterday when we hit 200!

Dick

Only 10 to go till 200 members

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Rod Westerfield said:

Only 2 left ta go.... so here are my cookies ready for the party... sorry didn't have the the stuff for no bakes... so we have banana nut cookies...

Ok Rod, I see those hot dog buns in the background.... yer holdin' out on us, aren't you ?!Oh...wait...11/04/2006...? Think I'll pass on those cookies! =8-o

Only 10 to go till 200 members

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Yer making me blush now, 'Mo'.OK so yesterday I made the pickled beets and the bread&butter pickles already for the virtual block party 200 member celebration :

Who else is bringing what?Jim Fawcett- how about some of your pure home raised honey?Anyone else got something to bring?Mo, can you bring something besides your wheat-a-pix this time?- last time they got my innards all gummed up and I was stuck in mixolydian for a week! =8-oLet's see some pictures of what folks are bringing to the imaginary FOTMD Big 200 !.... :DAnd who will be our surprised 200th member? Give them a party hat and a noisemaker!

updated by @strumelia: 05/06/25 11:41:48PM

Many luthiers use the term "Performance Model" or "Concert Model" to name their high end models that have the best quality tuners, ebony fretboard, larger soundbox, a built-in pickup, and various other combinations of stuff that make the instrument 'superior' or different in both practical and aesthetic ways. Naturally all these features tend to cost more.None of the features will actually make you a better player, and some don't even make the instrument sound better. Some of the features might make better instruments for playing in a performance or concert setting. Others might not.As we all know, everyone's idea of what sounds 'better' is different. I used to be very impressed by big resonant boomy dulcimers with deep tone. Now I prefer light silvery tender sounding dulcimers with more shallow soundboxes. Our tastes all change with time.Nothing wrong with buying a fancy high end dulcimer if that's what you want and it has features you want for your playing. :)
updated by @strumelia: 02/03/16 01:06:13AM

Dan, it actually is an issue with banjos, I can say that much. That's why many banjos have compensated bridges. Dan Daniels said:

Interesting postings about incorrect fret placement or sharping up the finger board. As a luthier with 28 years behind me I've never heard the argument that string gauge effects intonation. You may be pressing too hard or sharping by bending but more likely your frets are incorrectly spaced.
Maybe string gauge does have something to do with sharp notes but this is the first place I've ever heard it!Just my thoughts on this very early Monday morning.

Shas Cho said:

"The perfect is oft the enemy of the good."

I like to tell my husband "If you were perfect you'd just make me look bad." ;D

Ron Hanes said:

The toughest thing for me to learn was that It's never gonna be perfect , its a series of small compramises that you finally settle on as acceptable.

Wise words, Ron. And so true of all the various things in Life, right? :)

Shas writes:""I just ran over the strings with my electronic tunerand was a bit alarmed to discoverthat the middle string (currently tuned to A)is sharp already at the first fretand becomes increasingly sharper as I move up the fretboard.The other three strings are true right up to the 9th fret.Is this a flaw, or is it inherent in the system?""Hi Shas, there is reason for this, and it is true of most stringed fretted instruments....The thicker the string, the more it will tend to sound sharp when the thinner string frets a true note. Most frets are set so they will be noting the truest for the all-important melody string.So then you'd ask me- But why then isn't it my thickest BASS string that has the most sharpness problem?The answer is that it's really your MIDDLE string that is thickest. The middle string is thicker than the CORE string of the wound bass string. The winding around the bass string does not contribute to this effect. So really, the middle string is your thickest core wire, and has the most issue with fretting true to note.Us banjo players struggle with this and use compensated bridges to help lessen the difference in the tiny sharpness we hear when fretting the middle string. Again, our heavy wound bass string has less problem than the thickest middle string.The GOOD NEWS is that you are HEARING this sharpness- that means you have a good ear!! ;DMany people do not hear the slight differences in pitch trueness at all. Rejoice and take pride in your accurate ear!One more minor point- many beginners press down too hard when fretting, and this worsens the problem even more, by pulling/stretching the string all the way down to the wooden fretboard as opposed to simply being pushed down enough to make good fret contact. This extra stretching makes the string even sharper when fretted. Work on developing a lighter fretting touch, and fret the string just to the left of the intended fret, not in the middle between two frets.

"but the key will generally be between C and G."No, you *can* tune to any key you want- you just have to figure out which tunings/octaves to use so you don't break strings. Some people also use capos to change key without retuning and without putting much stress on the strings."most" common key these days is D....but you are by no means restricted to D. Not that it's so terribly complicated, but there is way more to learn here than can be explain in one or two paragraphs.Learn a few things at a time- it will slowly come together for you. :)

"When I see D-A-d,does this just indicate that the second Dis in a higher octave?"Yes. when we write out tunings, such as either DAd or 1-5-8, the first letter or number is usually the thick bass string. The last letter or number is the melody string (or strings as in your case). The middle thing is the middle string.The melody strings are usually in the octave that's higher up from the bass string octave.If your pair of melody strings are tuned up to the high 'd', then I suggest that you NOT tune them higher than the next note up, or 'e'....they might break.So that means if you want to tune to the key of F you would tune NOT to FCf, but you'd choose instead to tune the melodies DOWN to the F below their original d, not up. Then you'd be in FCF, but it would be pretty floppy sounding. Many dulcimer players for this reason avoid the key of F. The key of G is usually 'ok' by tuning GDG.You will be using TAB written for '3 strings'- think of your melody pair as one string. the tab written for 4 strings is meant for 4 equal-distant strings, no pairs.
updated by @strumelia: 02/14/16 09:00:11PM

Strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi Bill,String 'sets' for dulcimers aren't really strings that are make just for dulcimers. They are simply strings of a standard length (either ball end or loop end) that are selected to form a certain set of gauges that would be appropriate for a dulcimer. Such sets of strings are the same kind of strings they would use to put together a set of strings for the banjo- since they are the same length...just different gauges (thicknesses).Thus, if you know what gauges you like on your dulcimer, you can simply order like 6 or ten single strings of each thickness. It actually comes out much cheaper this way.Last time I got strings, I ordered a 'pack' of ten loop end banjo strings of the .010 gauge, for example. now I have plenty whenever I break a melody string! :) All these 'banjo' strings are the VERY SAME strings they use to put together sets of dulcimer strings.So you could order their single ball end banjo strings in whatever quantities you want, and just put together your own 'sets' of dulcimer strings. ;) TIP- order twice as many melody strings- they break most often.

Strumela do you see who are now members?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks Dennis, it's sweet of you to post this.I too am happy to see dulcimer people of all different levels as members of our community here- running the gamut all the way from the very newest beginner to the most experienced professional musician.

I am finding that the tone and format here at Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer is enabling me to get to know people who for years were merely anonymous names to me before. As I get to know them more as people here, I find I am learning from them in many small unexpected ways. I bet a lot of members are finding this to be true for them as well.

It reminds me a bit of something I wrote in my noter blog back in April of this year, 2009:

"As I look back now over my own limited experiences and see them from the standpoint of having myself been a total beginner not very long ago, I realize that all the musical learning experiences in my journey, the moments and realizations that were most intense and profound, were not learned through books, workshops, & classes. Rather they were quiet and slow and small moments of musical sharing and learning and realizations. Perhaps I happened upon a beginner fiddler sitting alone under a tree scratching out a tune at some festival, and I stopped to play for just a minute with them- and wound up figuring out something amazing and simple in trying to play with them, something that I had never thought of before.
In trying to solve a problem on my own, I learned in a meaningful way...even if I couldn't solve the problem! Perhaps I played a few tunes with someone who was just learning banjo, or with a very old player, and they gave me some fascinating story from their life that forever effected the way I think about music for myself...or perhaps I said something silly about music that really impressed my 9 year old banjo student. And perhaps all these small moments of wonder made me somehow feel like the best musician in the whole world.
When I think about it, all the most memorable and enriching learning experiences in my life as a whole have been during quiet moments of listening or reflection or experimentation, or through non-rushed personal interaction with another person. I think of music as a living thing- it needs to be lovingly nourished, and it needs to breathe."

I too look forward to hearing more from the accomplished musicians we are honored to have as FOTMD members here.  But I also look forward to hearing more from every single one of the 158 members here! Even the newest beginner players with absolutely no musical background at all are inspiring me and teaching me new things here every single day . Isn't it wonderful that we can all inspire and encourage each other?  thank you Dennis. :)

updated by @strumelia: 02/21/16 09:12:48PM

Our thanks to "Deputy Mo".

OFF TOPIC discussions

Playing dulcimer is always a good reason! ;DHey how come you don't post a thread telling us about your new dulcimer- I didn't even know you had one! Rod Westerfield said:

Glad to have helped out, just sorry didn't catch it sooner but I was playing my dulcimer (new one that is)...

Our thanks to "Deputy Mo".

OFF TOPIC discussions

I just wanted to give a public thank you to our diligent FOTMD moderator, member Rod Westerfield , otherwise known as "Deputy Mo" for his gracious assistance in overseeing our community here during the past two weekends while I was away from my computer on vacation.Thanks to Deputy Mo, things kept running smoothly while I was gone, minor every-day crisis on the site were attended to in a timely manner, and he even got to use his single bullet to kick an Evil Spammer from our midst this weekend.Three cheers for Deputy Mo!! :D

updated by @strumelia: 01/13/19 05:09:18PM

Ah, I stand corrected. ;D Randy Adams said:

You are confused Lisa....pencil marks go on the dulcimer....the hatchet marks go on the bedpost... : )...

Randy Adams said:

...with a little practice ...& a pencil mark or two.. : )...where the notes are comes automatically.

Randy, Randy, Randy! ... real men use hatchet notches , not pencil marks! Pencil marks are for girly men ! LOL ;D

Hi Cynthia,It's great fun and a learning experience to experiment on a fretless instrument. Likely you won't hit 'just the right spot' for a while, but if you approach it with a relaxed frame of mind and decide you don't have to sound perfect to have fun , well then you will get a lot out of it. You might not want to inflict your very first attempts upon others, though! ;D Cynthia said:

...the sound will just have a different quality than if there were a physical fret there...assuming you were able to hit the right spot,,, I have seen some youtubes of people with finger slides on cigar box instruments, and they look like a lot of fun.

Buzzing Strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

You might try the next up string gauges- just one size heavier all around- string buzz can come from the strings being a bit to floppy combined with low action. A slightly heavier set of strings will tighten the tension a little bit and keep the strings from moving so much when they vibrate. Its a cheap fix that's worth a try before paying a luthier for stuff.

Dusty Turtle said:

The hit of the day, though, was the limberjack. He danced around while I sang "There ain't no bugs on me" and the kids couldn't get enough. Whenever I tried to stop they began clapping their hands in unison and chanting "more, more, more." Finally the teacher had to bribe them with blueberry muffins to allow me to escape and get on with my day.

I had the same experience playing my limberjacks at farmers' markets and such.Yes, there are some small children who seem jaded and uninterested, but then you get the other ones who make it all worth while. Last summer, a group of four children, ranging from age 4 to 7 or so, stopped dead in their tracks and came running over to watch my limberjack dance. You wouldn't believe how HUGE their eyes got, like dinner plates!, and then they all started laughing and pointing in delight, and the more he danced the more they laughed. Then they started trying to dance like the limberjack, and they laughed even MORE, finally collapsing right there on the ground in a heap of child glee and belly laughs. It made me so happy ! I think that was the very best audience i ever had . :)I love playing my limberjacks. I have five of them, all different. I may wind up with more eventually, I love them that much. Plus, they are way cheaper than banjos! ;D Here are photos of three of them.

Carson Turner said:

The real fun busking though (my opinion)... - it's watching those little kids dance to a tune or hearing a story from someone about their now gone relative that "used to play that sort of music..."

Yes, my husband and i play fiddle/dulcimer/banjo for charity events sometimes and often for the local farmer's market. For those events we volunteer. My favorite part is when little children and toddlers start dancing around us in pure happiness- I love it! That's one reason I love to play right in with the people rather than on a stage area...i love when the children come up and touch my instrument gently in wonder, like it was magical. Awesome .

Dusty Turtle said:

As others have suggested, making a joke about not playing a request is probably the best route when you really don't know the material requested.

Dusty,Having to do with that, one of my favorite things to say between tunes when we are playing out in public is:"We've had a request from the audience.....but we've decided to keep playing anyway." Always gets a good laugh! :D

Carson Turner said:Dana Carvey used to do an absolutely hilarious bit on this idea. After seeing it, I started watching guitar players and he was SO right.OMG too funny! LOLI find that fiddler players tend to make the weirdest unconscious mouth moves while playing.(rock stars don't count since they do it on purpose) LOL