Forum Activity for @ken-hulme

Personally I would not put any glue on the nut or bridge.  String pressure alone will hold them in place.  I would not have taken all the strings of at once either, but again, that's just me; I remove and replace one string at a time so that things stay together.

Case -- making a wooden case is easy using 1/4" poplar "hobby wood" from Home Depot or Lowes, or thin plywood.  I use simple ballistic nylon straps to hold the lid on mine, rather than mucking about with hinges and thin wood.  Bob Gerard, one of the members here, makes beautifully painted wooden cases.    A cloth gig bag is also easy to make, or the ultimate protective cloth bags are made by The Dulcimer Bag Lady -- dulcimerbaglady.com

Strings are dependent on the Vibrating String Length (nut to bridge distance) and the open tuning you want for the strings -- DAA, DAd, CGG, etc.

You can certainly leave things alone for now and see how it shakes out.  I don't remember what finish Keith used on his dulcimers, but someone here will know.  Probably linseed oil, but don't quote me on that.  

For now, clean with a water-damp cloth.

With a floating bridge, never remove all the strings at once.  Remove and replace one at a time to keep the bridge in place.  If it sounds really "off" once you've tuned it, it's possible the bridge has been nudged.  Take the distance from the inside edge of the nut to the top of the 7th fret, double that, and that's where the inside edge of the bridge goes, at least to start. The intonation can be tweaked slightly from there.

Welcome Pondoro!   I've been playing old time American and Anglo-Scottish folk tunes on the dulcimer for forty years (one of these days I'll get it right!)

Here's an article I wrote a number of years back called I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?  It's an illustrated glossary of dulcimer terms (so we all speak the same lingo); plus answers to many beginner questions about tuning, playing, care and feeding of your new acquisition.

I Just Got A.pdf - 1MB

'way back in the day, laminate or plywood was the 'carbon fiber' of the time -- amazing stuff it didn't have grain in the normal sense, it was strong and relatively lightweight, and capable of taking complex shapes if cut properly.

Too many variables to say definitively.  New strings, a week old, six months old, more?   Never tuned above C or regularly tuned up and down?  Never been tuned above DAA, or regularly tuned up and down?  String vibrating as you tune it, or static?  Tuner gear ratio (high ratios like 1:18 easier on strings than 1:4)?  

Not much without permanent alterations.  A leather strip will help.  A thin bent metal or hard plastic plate tucked under the strings would last longer. 

Most of us just sort of accept that the round-over of the fretboard is going to notch if the builder did not install a piece of fretwire (like your aluminum rod) at the break-over.  Your aluminum rod will notch under the pressure of steel strings.

Generally the cutting-in goes 'so far and no farther'.  I have dulcimers that are decades old, and the cutting-in has not continued much more than the depth of the string diameter.  

New dulcimers going out of tune after a day or so is quite common, and not just caused by the string cutting it.  New strings take a day or two to stretch into the root tuning that you use.

Hi Irene.  I have several Mirlitons -- one almost identical to the one Peter is playing, made by the same Austrian builder. Very spendy…  

I've also started making them myself.  Not as pretty perhaps but they play just as well.  I've made three so far from bamboo that is 3/4" but not 1" in diameter, with lengths from 5" to 10".  The covers are made from joint ends of larger culms.  I'll post some photos later.  I have one crummy vid on my YouTube.  Having trouble finding a way to make vids that aren't 50-80 Mb.  The membrane is a 2x2 square of plastic grocery bag tied/glued over the ends and trimmed.

I play a bit of pennywhistle, but mostly Mirliton.  The Mirliton or Onion flute isn't really a wind instrument, it's a membranophone -- an ancestral kazoo more or less (but not as raucous or metallic sounding) from the 15th-17th century.  Sounds good with the dulcimer actually.  

Ever since getting my teeth replaced with an upper plate, I more or less lost the ability to whistle well; which I used to enjoy doing along with a friend's band.  The Mirliton lets me do almost all the complicated trills of whistling again.  

Welcome Atilwi!  Glad you found us.  You're in for a fabulous experience!  Always ask questions -- we're here to help.  There are no stupid or inappropriate questions, just ones that don't get answered.  

I've attached an article I wrote a few years back called I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?.  It's an illustrated glossary of dulcimer terms, so we all speak the same lingo when asking and answering questions.  Plus it has answers to many beginner questions about tuning, playing, care and feeding of your new friend.

I Just Got A.pdf - 1MB

At that price, David, I think you should start collecting!

That's one beautiful instrument.  All but one of mine have wooden tuning pegs.  I don't find them hard to work at all -- just 'different' from mechanical pegs.  I gave you ideas for strings on your FB post.  

I don't have a Stockard stand, but I do use a waiter's tray table like the one above, that I got at a restaurant supply store for about $25.

 Serving-Items-Miscellaneous-Waiter-Tray-Stand-Wooden.jpg - 20KB

OK.  Knowing his is a Tom Yocky and his standard dulcimers have a 27.5" VSL, the strings you need, as KenWL said, at .010 plain for the two melody strings, .014 plain for the middle drone, and a .020 wound for the bass string.  These are the gauges commonly found in most dulcimer string sets.

The notches in the frets aren't 'critical' to a good sound, but down the road you may want to get those notches frets replaced -- it looks like they are too deeply notched to just the filed and re-crowned.  

Remember, when you tune it to make sure your two D strings are in two different octaves -- the melody d string should be the same as the bass D when the bass string is fretted on the 7th fret (not the 6+ fret).

FWIW -- you've now learned a painful truth -- most music shop folks, even those who have a dulcimer or two for sale, really don't know squat about our favorite instrument!

Looking forward to the pictures. 

Grooves in a couple frets are not really part of the problem you describe.  If you have the string package (Stay In Tune) it should tell you the gauges of strings it contained, which might tell us a lot.

When you change strings, DO Not remove all of them and them put all new on.  Remove and replace 1 string at a time, to keep that loose Nut and maybe the Bridge from shifting position.    

Question.  Is the bridge setting on top of the fretboard?  Or in a groove in the fretboard?

Yep.  We're at the point where we need to see what's going on.

Ellen's right.  An Electric dulcimer is, like an electric guitar, a "solid-body_ -- a piece of fancy 2x6 or whatever with cavities cut into it to house the electronics.  

The vast majority of dulcimers are Acoustic instruments -- hollow bodies in which the air vibrates to make the sound.  Many makers (including Ron) offer an acoustic-electric option, which involves a pickup attached inside the body with a wire leading to a socket usually imbedded in the tailpiece.

Dulcimers don't have a left or right.  They have a head, a tail, a near (player) side, a far side, a top and a bottom.  Did the nut shift towards the near side or far side?

If the nut has shifted that radically without being serious tapped with something or falling, your strings are far too loose, which would be a major factor in your "issues".  What are you using for a tuner?  It's possible you may be tuned to DAd but in the wrong octave (too low), which would explain floppy sour sounding strings...

String tension should hold the nut and bridge in place.  Bass string rubbing the headstock where it enters the slot to the tuning shafts isn't normally an issue, as it is outside of the nut-bridge VSL.

You "repair" the loose nut by pushing, or gently tapping the nut back to where it is supposed to be and then tightening the strings. If the nut won't simply push back into place, set the dulcimer on top of a towel, on the dining table or a counter, before doing any tapping. Use a short 'punch' -- a stick, dowel, or piece of chopstick -- and a hammer.  Put one end of the punch on the end of the nut and tap the other end.

Phots -- wide and up close of those blems will let us help.

Sounds interesting, although I had to go look up what  ländler and boarischer were.  Keep us posted!

I've never seen a comprehensive Festival list; not even on ED 'back in the day'.  

Dulci-Clan -- Once again you're getting lost in nearly meaningless details, and over-complicating things. 

Overall shape (hourglass, teardrop, elliptical, trapezoid, etc.) has no discernable effect on dulcimer sound. I have a standing offer of $100 to anyone who can pass my blind listening test and tell which instruments are playing (I play some tunes on some dulcimers and send you an MP3 -- you tell me what shapes are playing what tunes).  

There are well over a hundred factors that affect the sound of an instrument, and the kinds of woods used for sides/backs/tops are pretty far down that list -- not even in the top 10. 

Soundboard placements?  The dulcimer has one soundboard -- the top.   

Do you mean fretboard placement?  The dulcimer has its fretboard running down the centerline of the top, by definition (unless it's a courting dulcimer with two fretboards evenly spaced across the top.  Fretboard overlays do not effect sound, but they do make it smoother to play.

Once again, soundhole placement does NOT effect sound quality.  It can effect sound volume, but as a beginner you'll not notice anything.

People like Dulcimore Dan, Ron Gibson, myself, Kusani are giving you the benefit of our several decades of practical experience as builders and players, and you seem to be ignoring it. 

I don't want to sound harsh or uncaring, but please -- take Matt Berg's advice:  Go play a dozen different dulcimers for 10-20 minutes each; take plenty of notes about your experiences, and then get back to us.

They're around, you've just not learned to suss them out yet.  Check acoustic music shops. 

Check out this guy:  He'll probably be able to help find players... and even build you a dulcimer maybe... http://pierce.state.nh.us/nharts/artsandartists/tradroster/tradartistinfo.asp?ArtistID=371

And other thing to check out.  I did a simple google search on "dulcimer new hampshire" and found these two listings right off the bat.  http://vintagefret.com/?post_type=product

You need Adobe PDF Reader (free) or some other PDF reader software or app to read my article.

Dulci-clan -- where are you that dulcimers and "not common"? We may know people nearby who are very knowledgeable and willing to help beginners.  

Here's a link to an article I wrote several years back that gives you an illustrated glossary of dulcimer terms (so we all talk the same lingo) plus answers to many beginner questions about the tuning, playing care and feeding of a new dulcimer.

MOST people interested in dulcimers don't really care about how their dulcimers are built; I both applaud your effort and want to say that for the most part what really matters is the look and sound.  There are many, many ways to design and build a dulcimer, from Lego to cardboard to plexiglass, to plywood to solid woods, in at least a dozen general -but-different body shapes and an infinity of sound hole shapes/placements.  None of which means anything unless you, personally like the look and the sound of the instrument. 

I Just Got A.pdf - 1MB

Are you looking to buy or build?  If you're looking to buy, do so based on what the dulcimer sounds like, not so much what it looks like.  Buy from a reputable builder, not some cheap thing you see on Ebay.  If you see something you like, ask us about the builder and we'll tell you what you know.  If you see an ad and the seller can't tell you who the builder is, there's a good chance you don't want to buy the instrument.

If you're looking to build your own dulcimer, the vast majority of us who build put soundholes symmetrically in the widest part of each bout.  It's a matter of the science of acoustics. You can bend a lot of the 'laws' of science but the results are not necessarily a good thing.   Single hole dulcimers are not particularly prevalent for a reason.  

You said "...near the nut side...".  The nut is at the head end of the dulcimer; there isn't any "nut side".  There is a head, a tail, the near side (closest to you) and the far side (furthest from you).  

There's a real complicated formula for the area of  sound holes, but 3-4 quarters worth is a good amount for the average dulcimer.  Bigger instruments can go more, of course.

As far as placement of the sound holes, again there are formulas, and location does effect the sound.  You don't want them in the ends or near the sides or fretboard.  Ideal location is half way between the fretboard and the edge, at the widest point of each bout.  Bouts are the rounded sections of course.  An hourglass has two bouts, upper and lower. A teardrop or elliptical has just the one bout.  Rectangular or trapezoid shapes can have 4 soundholes about a third of the way in from either end.

There are always exceptions -- the Tennessee Music Box for example often had a line of holes from head to tail nearer to the fretboard than the edge.  I've seen dulcimers with no soundholes in the top, but a line of holes in the side on the audience  side of the instrument.  I saw one where the builder hadn't gotten the idea of the possum board right, and had cut soundholes in the inner bottom and possum board itself!

A good "ballpark" length is something between 20 - 22 centimeters.  You alter the mass of the hammer by altering the thickness and width of the handles, heads and grips.

It's not even the bridge, Dusty; I don't believe they really intonate for one tuning over the other.  It might be the string set, if anything.  Personally I don't see an issue, or what all the fuss is about.  I know how to use the tuners to tune the strings to anything I want within the properties of the strings

Other than Dusty's suggestion, just get a half sheet of 1/4" ply and some foam, make one.  

Sittin' on the dock of the bay.  In the shade on Bay street just half  block from my boat on the river.  Lotsa folk walk that way crossing the bridge as part of an exercise plan.  

Long Black Veil's a good one, Dusty.  Check out the lyrics to Mattie Groves -- the predecessor tune for Shady Grove.

I missed this thread too, Ken.   

The book I had 40 years ago was Jean Ritchie's Dulcimer book.  I suspect my first tune was Go Tell Aunt Rhodie as well, since it would have been one of the few tunes in that book which I knew.  The other would have been Barbara Allen.

Yeah, the subject comes up periodically.  And the answers are as varied as the kinds of music people enjoy playing, and the way they play -- Chord Melody, Fingerdancing, or Noter & Drone.

I, for example, am a hardcore Noter & Drone player of 15th century to 19th century Anglo-Scottish Border Ballads and their descendants as played in this country.  I want a dulcimer not more than about 6" wide, not more than 1-1/4" or so deep, with a 1" tall fretboard, staple frets, and Just Intonation.  Those traditional instruments have what I call a "high silvery" sound.  John Knopf, Bobby Ratliff, Dan Cox and Kevin Messenger all make dulcimers of that Traditional type which I would be proud and happy to own.  And I do own dulcimers by John and Bobby.

The kind of dulcimer I prefer has changed wildly over the last 40 years.  Originally I liked, and built, deep, wide dulcimers with much more baritone/bass response.

String gauges are totally dependent on the notes of the Open tuning -- DAA, DAd, CGG, CGc, EBB, EBe -- and the VSL of the instrument. 

A "normal" set of strings will tune DAA, DAd, DAC, DAG, on up to EBB, EBe, etc and maybe up to the key of F.  But The bass string will probably break if your try to tune to GDD, GDg etc.  To tune up to G you need another set of strings.  Those "normal" string will also tune down to key of C -- CGG, CGc etc.; and maybe to B.  But below that they will be too floppy and again you would need different strings.

There are people who play fretless dulcimers, or it could have been built to be bowed.

Actually, on the couple of Ledfords that I had the pleasure of playing, those "string adjustment hubs"  -- which are fine tuners, BTW -- worked very well to make tiny adjustments to the tuning.

Wooden tuning pegs may indicate that the instrument does not have a 6+ fret. Do you actually USE the 6+ fret (like every other time you sit down and play), or is it just there because everyone around you has it?  Yes it can be added, sometimes even at a festival; it's not usually very expensive (less than $50).

KenWL gave you a great list of things to look at and for and report back to us.  If it were me, I'd purchase a bottle of "peg dope", which may help with those tuners. 

Ask your friend to show you how to tune using those tuners; you don't just turn, but sorta turn-and-push.

With an "approximate 28" VSL, I would just go buy a set of dulcimer strings with gauges around .010, .012. .020. 

Hi Ray,  welcome to our wacky but wonderful world.  I've included a link to my article "I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?  which is an illustrated glossary (so we all talk the same way about the same things) as well as answers to many beginner questions about tuning, playing, care and feeding of your new "friend".

First thing is, we talk about going "up" the fretboard (not down) because the notes go up in pitch as you move from the tuning head towards the tail end.

Second thing is, we usually write DAd rather than DAD.  DAd reminds us that the bass string is tuned to D, the middle drone is tuned to A, and the melody string (closest to you) is tuned to d -- an octave higher in pitch than the bass D.

Third thing is that your dulcimer has what we call a 6+ or six-plus fret.  There is also a 13+ fret.  There's a long explanation that I won't go into here, but when you count fret numbers (when playing from tabulature for example), on your dulcimer you would count -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6+, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 13+, 14, 15, 16

Fourth thing is that your dulcimer has 4 strings -- a "doubled melody course" as we say.  Lots of people take off one of the two melody strings to make things simpler, especially when you're just starting out.

If you are tuned DAd, this is sometimes called a Mixolydian tuning, and the scale starts at the open (un-fretted) note.  That note is d.  The first fret is e, then f#, g, a, b, c', c'#,d'...  

If you tune to DAA, then the scale starts at the 3rd fret, with d, e, f#, a, b....

A lot of players pay no attention to the letter designations (A, C#, Db, etc.) they "play by number" pressing fret 3, fret 4, fret 6 as called for by the song.   You don't have to know about chords (although a lot of people will tell you that you really should) -- you can play traditionally by picking out the melody on the melody string (nearest to you) and just letting the other two string drone.

I Just Got A.pdf - 1MB

Hi John-c  Welcome to our wacky and wonderful world.  I've added links to a couple of articles I wrote years ago, which you may find useful as you start your dulcimer journey. 

I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What? is an illustrated glossary of dulcimer terms (so we all speak the same lingo), plus answers to many beginner questions about tuning, playing, care and feeding of your new instrument.

Get Noterized is a beginner's guide to playing the dulcimer in a traditional (non-3-finger chord) style.

Uncontrite Modal Folker is a discussion of musical Modes and Modal Tunings and how they apply to the mountain dulcimer.

Uncontrite Modal Folker.pdf - 92KB

Good recipe there Dusty!   Cold soups are a great thing to serve in the summer.  I make several kinds, and may have to add your simple Cocktel de Camaron to the repertoire.

Nicely written John.  I've always told people to go to classes which appeal to them, regardless of the rating.  You may not master the topic now, but six months or a years down the road there will this "Aha!" moment when something you learned in the past finally "fits" what you're doing.

Thanks Geckostar97 -- Wish I could be credited with the design, but an old boy named Jacob Gross made two round-bottom zithers back in the 1860s -- one fretted, and one bowed.  And his were based on the earlier fretted zithers of the Moravian settlers in PA.  

I may tackle the bowed version next as it's a bit simpler.  Right now I'm staining and sanding and staining again the fretted one, trying to get the color at least close to the original...