The two never were the same as far as I know. Bud & Donna Ford started Cripple Creek - in Manitou Springs, CO - long before I first visited their shop and fell in love with dulcimers in the early 70s. I believe at one time though, they made "private label" dulcimers that were sold in Branson.
Ask Bud & Donna - they're still in Manitou Springs, CO. Drop them a note at
Both of those builders used Just Temperament, not Equal Temperament, although Keith today will make you an instrument whichever way you want. I do not believe that Keith Young ever made and sold an instrument which was not as perfectly fretted as he could possibly make it.
I would suggest to you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with those dulcimers. It's just that they were never made to play with other instruments or be tuned and compared with a hyper-accurate electronic tuner.
IMHO you should not try to "fix" anything, as there is nothing to fix. To "fix" what you see as a problem would require replacing all of the frets, preferably by replacing the entire fretboard.
IMHO if you do not care for the sound of those dulcimers, you should sell them as Just Temperament instruments, or simply not play them with other instruments and enjoy them as they were intended to be played.
"Not spaced properly" - if they are old dulcimers they might be intonated with just temperament spacing not equal temperament fret spacing, which was very common in the Olde Dayes.
How old is "old"?
Are the actions higher than "nickel-dime" That is a common cause of going flat as you walk up the fretboard, and was also common with older dulcimers...
Can you tell us who were the builders of these "old dulcimers". Even some more modern builders used just temperament into the 1980s.
Yes it's OK to post instruments for trade or sale - as long as you do it in the Instruments for Sale forum...
No offense meant or taken. Just a gentle reminder that we are an international community here and not everyone is cognizant of Anglo-American-Canadian slang, abbreviations, and such, which can be mis-taken.
Well, folks I posted that link nearly two years ago. Time change, so do websites. I'm sorry but I don't know where it's gone.
BTW Dave, 'puta' in Spanish is very offensive.Not really a good abbreviation of 'computer'. In Turkish it's the name of a type of Ottoman Empire archer's bow.
Fort those who love the music of the 60s and 70s and beyond, here's a great lyric and guitar chord collection I discovered while searching for lyrics to Dancing Bear by the Mommas & Pappas:
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/~aparsons/guitar/guitar2.html
The general string gauges will allow you, generally speaking, to tune from the key of C tunings (CGG, CGc) up to maybe key of F tunings (FCC, Fcf). Below C they will be too floppy and buzz and sound mushy, especially on the thinner strings. Around F, and certainly G, you risk breaking the bass string although the thinner strings will easily tune.
No one set of strings will allow you to tune from A to G. If you're tuning below the key of C you need new strings (most of us get a second dulcimer along with the strings). Likewise if you're tuning to the keys of F and G primarily.
Not wanting to rig a dulcimer with a separate set of strings to play the key of G - GDD, GDg etc. is what has given rise to the popularity of the so-called Reverse Ionian tuning DGd. That tuning has the same notes, but not the same 'flavor' if you will, of real Ionian key of G tuning -- GDD.
I have one dulcimer that has a 27" VSL which I keep strung with 18-11-11 and tune to GDD. Another is strung with 22w-12-12-12 and tunes back and forth to the keys of C and D tunings
Nancy - use a String Gauge Calculator such as the one at www.strothers.com to determine which diameter of string (but not Maker) is appropriate for a given VSL and the note you want to tune to. Know that you can go a gauge or two up or down from what the calculator shows; that's how players "tweek" their instruments.
You absolutely must know the VSL of each instrument and the notes to which each string is to be tuned.
Virginia - - VSL always has something to do with the diameter of the strings and the note you're trying to tune the string to. This is a basic 'natural law' of stringed instruments. Too thin or too thick of strings, and you'll be breaking strings or have them too floppy for the notes you're trying to tune to.
What John said!
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary....
If you just get generic guitar strings you may not be happy. Guitar strings are generally not in the same gauge range as dulcimers, to start with.
First know that there is no such thing as "guitar strings" or "dulcimer strings. There are just strings, made by a handful of manufacturers for several labels.
Many acoustic music shops carry sets of strings assembled for dulcimers under names like D'Arco, D'Addario, Martin and GHS. Some sets are labelled Mixolydian or Ionian. Any of those sets will be more than adequate for your dulcimer.
Whew! Thanks for the second picture. I though my eyes were playing tricks on me, but ya never can tell. You definitely want a wound bass string on this instrument. And as Howard has said, a 26 gauge bronze wound, if you can find it. The way that notch is cut a thinner string will sit farther down in the notch, and thus closer to the fret, and simply changing up to the 26 wound may hopefully solve the problem.
Looking at the photo above it appears as if someone has replaced the nut with a piece of material tapering the wrong way. Normally the high and square side would be towards the body and then taper away towards the tuners. Also, that piece of black "nut" does not appear to be glued down or shaped properly -- like it's a replacement. I've never seen a nut shaped like an inverted L, extending aft of the nut slot, almost floating, onto the surface of the fretboard. Nuts are normally parallel sided with the top edge angles towards the tuner. Can you get a another picture please -- from the side as well as the top. The one side photo in your other post that shows the nut is too dark to see detail. I suspect you'll want to completely replace the nut. It seems awfully 'kludgy' for something the Ruggs built.
Does it buzz if you go back to three 12gauge strings? Not all dulcimers were designed to use wound bass strings. Is this an Applecreek or First Act dulcimer by any chance? Those two "off shore" brands are notoriously poor construction. What is the string height at fret 1 and fret 7? Is it only buzzing on an open strum, or buzzing at a particular fret?
Faults fret????? Do you mean false fret? Is it the fret itself that's buzzing?
See my solution is the simplest of all. Stop fretting the bass string.
Become a Noter & Drone or Melody-Drone player and fret only the melody string(s)
Thanna said "I'm probably too new for most people to wantto play with LOL!"
You are welcome to play around here any old time! Frankly I enjoy watching the Light come on as new players "get it" and
New-ness is never an excuse for that kind of behavior. We're supposed to be about helping new people find, enjoy and come to love our non-mainstream instrument, not dictating that you will play in a specific manner. Thank Murphy there is no such thing as the formalized Suzuki Method for dulcimer! If there was, I'd take up something really obscure like left-handed cimbalom or fretless ukulele!
David - I hope you realize that the vast majority of dulcimer players over here are not like those described above. Every barrel has its bad apples (to twist a few metaphors). However it is also true that the overweening attitude here is that DAd is the tuning and that there should be no sticks in the left hands of dulcimer players.
As a noter & drone player for over 35 years I've experienced my share of of Dadism and Chordism. Is it any wonder that I sometimes sign myself
Uncontrite Modal Folker
Sorry to hear about your problem with the local dulcidiots club.
Maybe you should print all this out and go back again to thank everyone for your previous visit and hand them a copy of this
!
Where do you live; maybe we can find you a couple of sympathetic unbigoted, unprejudiced folks to play with...
Happy Birthday to us...
Happy Birthday to us...
Happy Birthday everybody!
Happy Birthday to u!!!
I have a sign I put out when playing in parks etc. It reads
Will STOP PLAYING for money!
That's the name of my Group of One...
You need to open the crack a bit, by pushing down on one side or the other, then as suggested, wick in a bead of thin, not thick, superglue and stop pushing so the two halves come back together properly before the superglue sets. Quickly wipe up any excess. If it's an open crack, a small hole drilled at each end of the split will prevent the crack from continuing to "run".
If your dulcimer has a hard finish - urethane, varnish, lacquer or anything other than oil, and you have a messy glue patch, you'll have to either ignore it, or sand the old varnish (and glue smear) off and refinish the back.
I would not worry about a built-indouble back to give more sound. For under $10 you can make a simple and effective possum board to accomplish the same thing.
Read some of Robin Clark's commentaries here about how useful and versatile he finds a Galax strung dulcimer to be when playing in sessions with fiddles and other instruments. He may make a convert out of you. If I had access to the kind of playing groups he does, that's what I'd choose.
Wood type is actually pretty far down the list of things that affect the sound quality. If you want a brighter sound you want a shallower and narrower dulcimer than you've had before. Relatively less volume of the sound body gives a brighter tone. Another good trick is to take off the wound 20 to 24 ga bass string and use say an 18 ga, plain steel string, to also enhance brightness.
I fully agree with Maestro Pedi (Hi Don!). I would not convert a Mize dulcimer from wooden pegs to other tuners. Converting that dulcimer will seriously impact it's resale value. Buy another dulcimer instead.
It's a simple matter to adjust wooden peg holding ability as Don & Lisa have said. I own a vintage 3 string with violin pegs, and it tunes at least as accurately as my mechanical pegged dulcimer, and just about as quickly once I learned how to properly tune with them. As Don said - if wooden pegs are such bad tuners, why do violins continue to be made with them.
