Forum Activity for @robin-clark

FIDDLESTICKS !!!!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I was over at a friend's cottage last night for a session with our string band "Snakewood". I was given a gift of a couple of goose quills for my Galax dulcimer that my friend Nick found on the Mawddach Estuary by the Toll Bridge where he works.

A few weeks ago I fitted a set of Wittner Finetune-Pegs to my partner's fiddle (an 8.5:1 planetary geared peg that looks just like a wooden fiddle peg) to encourage and help her to learn cross-tuning. She cross-tuned last night to AEAE to play "Cripple Creek" and, looking at the two Galax quills I'd just been given, I realised that I had a set of fiddlesticks

So we had our first ever go at "fiddle stickin'"

What a great toe tapping sound!!!!! The consensus was "That's definately going in the band's set!!!"

So now I'm wondering if the technique would work well for noter/drone fast fiddle tunes on mountain dulcimer

Watch this space!

If you've not come across "fiddlesticks" before then hereis a lovelyexample - just image working something like this on mountain dulcimer in noter/drone - I think that has to be worth a try!:

Robin

updated by @robin-clark: 06/11/15 07:27:38AM

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hi Strumelia,

Do you know what tuning Eriksen is using in that video? I've been searching for it on line but not found it. At a guess I would say he is in e,B,E,A,D but about 10 cents sharp on that?

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Thanks Randy,

It is great to try something new and go through those frustrations and triumphs of learning. I think you are right in challenging your students. All you can give them is challenge and inspiration - if they are going to be successful then the motivation and hard work has to come from them!

I'm really enjoying the banjo - I know so little about the instrument and its music that each new page is a wonder

Strumelia send me a link last night to a video of a guy called Tim Erikson playing a small fretless banjo in Time Square.

I'd never heard the banjo played with such a driving, constantrhythm before, and such a full sound! Now that was both inspirational and a challenge!!!!!!! So I sat down this lunchtime and had a play around with that driving sound to see what I could come up with andhad a go atCluck Old Hen (coz there's not too many notes) to see if I could start to find something like that style.I was just messing around with the tune and trying to concentrate on rhythm - so much so that there's a couple of bits of melody that just sort of appeared and I don't think I could repeat

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hi FolkFan,

Tha second tune was supposed to be Shady Grove! Those tunes were recorded 3 months ago when I first got my banjo. I've had a lot of help since then. Strumelia has been great at helping to point me in the right direction bytryingto show me the differernce between guitar and clawhammer banjo!!!! So I'm trying to play more melodically using open tunings and not based around chords. I've just re-recorded Shady Grove and I'm working on a really simple version of Arkansas Traveller hoping to get a more melodic feel to my playing. Still, it is early days yet!

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Thanks Lisa,

I've just been watching Clarence Ashley on YouTube. I've heard so many modern ballad versions recently that I'd completely lost sight of the way Clarence played the tune. I think I could possibly work out most of his licks and phrasing although the guitar is getting in the way a bit. He has such subtle hand movements - it's a joy to watch!

I have been getting some coaching from Nick. I'll work out a tune for myself and then take it to Nick and he'll show me how to make it better with different fingering, drop thums, hammer-ons, pull offs, etc - or he may move the rhythm around a bit for me. We've not actually worked on the cuckoo together yet.

I seem to be able to get a lot of different tones from my banjo by moving the rag around inside it and by playing in different positions. It is only a very cheap instrument - the bottom of the range. When I buy another I'd like to go for a slightly wider neck - but that's all I'd change.

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Well I've had my banjo for 3 months - so I thought I would record something this afternoon. One of the tunes I've been working on is The Cuckoo. I've heard lots of different versions of the tune so I've just been stealing bits from here and there. The only problem I have is that it isa song, not a fiddle tune - and I don't sing

But it just didn't sound right playing it without the words - so I gave it a go

Playing clawhamer banjo and singing at the same time is a whole new ball game !!!!!!!!

The recording was on my Zoom H2 on a mic stand in my lounge while standing up playing and singing. Well this is certainly an "adventure" with a new instrument coz I'm well out of my comfort zone on this one

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I had a tough hour last night.

A friend from down the road (fiddle and banjo player) knocked on the door yesterday and asked if I wanted to go down to his place to play banjo with him on fiddle. Another friend, Chris, turned up with his mandolin and it was a case of "Right - let's see how far you've got with that thing!".

I opened with "Old Joe Clark" and at the end of the playing the tune through a few a few times with them I looked up expecting high praise indeed All that came back was "TOO FAST" "Bloody banjo players - way too fast!!!!!!" Now, one of the first things that Nick said to me a couple of week's ago whentold himI wanted to learn banjo was "Watch your speed on banjo. It is really easy to play too quick at sessions". That lesson has now been learned, and I can expect an "I told you so!" when I next see him

Chris then asked me "What tunes don't you know on that thing?" Well, after a couple of week's playing I only have 3 or 4 tunes, so the list of stuff I don't know is pretty long! So the two of themthen proceeded to play tunes I have yet to learn giving me a couple of minutes or so to re-tune and work out some of the phrases before kicking off. It was a struggle to say the least but just what I needed really.

The double C tuning capo'd+ 2 to the key of D (aDADE) is giving me the most trouble at present. The first 3 strings are the same as "sawmill" capo'd +2 (aEADE) in A minor. In A minor you play the C scale but in D you play the D scale on the same strings. Those first two strings are so close (just a tone apart) that working out the best pattern for a tune is quite a challenge as there are so many options! Also, having chromatic frets means that 4 out of every eleven notes are definately wrong

I'm not actually thinking about scales when I play - in fact, I try not to "think" of anything at all, just hear the tune and let everything else just happen. I found that I got on best at picking up tune phrases on the banjo last night with my eyes shut, or at least when not looking at my hands. Whereas with dulcimer and dobro I definately use visual clues (I'm going to have to have a play around with that!!!!)

This is certainly turning into an "adventure" with another instrument!

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I was VERY tempted to buy a nylon strung fretless as my first banjo - and I don't think that there is any doubt that I will have one at some stage. I had aquick playwith one before making my decision to opt for a standard banjo as a starter.

I'll look up those Doc Boggs tracks.

Thanks

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Thanks Paul,

I've been working from this YouTube clip - for me, as a beginner,it is the best explanation and skill breakdownI have seen (it is lesson 2 for beginners - lesson 1 was the basic stroke):

I've been working on these exercises for just over a week so I'm starting to get up to playing speed. I'm now looking at where and when I can use the technique by playing around with slotting it into the tunes I already play.

Only another 10,000 hours of practice and I'll be able to do it really well !

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I've had a bit of a drop thumb breakthough

I was playing around with the drop thumb motion and thought of "You Are My Sunshine" - so I used that tune as an exercise to practice the movement on the spaces between the phrases. Sort of "You are my...boom-chinga-linga-chinga-ling. My only.. boom-chinga-linga-linga-ling." So I had that going OK last night and was really cheesily over doing it !

This lunchtime I had a go at "Pigs Foot" trying to apply your "skating and skipping" by halving the number of right hand strikes and using more hammer-ons pull-offs and slides. After playing it through a few times I realised that I'd thrown in a drop thumb pattern at the start of Part B without really thinking about it So all that practicing of the movement without actually knowing how to fit it into the music has paid off! I'm now starting to understand where it fits - although it looks like my subconscious mind is already way ahead of my conscious reasoning (as usual !!!!!)

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hey thanks!

I've just been watching some of Dwight's posts on YouTube. I think I may get a couple of his videos. Great rhythms!!!

The wear pattern on his banjo heads looks like a big giveaway on how he gets his sound? I didn't see him drop thumb at all ?

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Wow - you have had some good teachers Lisa!

My banjo has a simple wooden potwith ametal tone ring:

Oops - perhaps I should have taken my good lady's vest that I stole to use as a damper out of the back of the banjo before taking the photo - she may have something to say about that!

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Ahh!!!

Skating and skipping over the fretboard - I can imagine that I've beenattempting to playCripple Creek and Angeline the Baker a bit like that.

Air pauses and less notes - very good!!!! I've just started to have a go at "The Cuckoo" - that's not got many notes at all so it is really making me think about how to carry rhythm. And I'm trying a slow Frosty Morning.

I'm playing around with all sorts of different right hand positions and movements - every player I watch on youtube is doing something slightly different so I'm just copying styles at present and listening to what happens.

I haven't got any idea at all where to use drop thumb (yet!). So I'm just practicing the movement for 10 mins or so each day. I'm sure that Nick will show me how to bring it in to the music when I'm ready. For now I'm basing everything around bum-di-dy and di-dy, thumb on thumb string - it is going to take quite a while to get that flowing.

It is great fun just learning something new

I try and have the approach that "I don't know what I don't know". And that what I'm physically doing now is not what I'm going to be physically doing next week.

I bought a really basic banjo from Andy Perkins banjos. It is his own brand "Grafton" made from Chinese parts and then assembled by him. It has no bells or whistles just very basic parts but it holds itstuning well and will do me just fine. It will certainly be well abused

Robin

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I don't know what came over me? Perhaps it's just a phase I'm going through? Hopefully it is not a sign of something more serious

Two week's ago, on a whim, I pulled out my credit card and bought - a BANJO

I've been listening to loads of old recordings of Appalachian bands lately and it was listening to the banjo/fiddle combinations made started me thinking. If I want to improve my trad dulcimer playing perhaps learning banjo may be a pretty good way of thinking about rhythm in a different way - and it would be a good instrument for accompanying my fiddle playing better-half who is really getting into old time playing. So based on those lame excuses I bought a banjo (please forgive me ).

I've watched a few very basic "learn to clawhammer" YouTube lessons, got a few pointers off my banjo playing buddyand have set about trying to get my head around this weird instrument that has loads of different tunings and a strange right hand action (Mmm..... that reminds me of another instrument I play ). I'm not sure how far I'm going to get with the instrument but my present goal is to simply transfer the tunes I play on mountain dulcimer to banjo and see what comes from that. Already I'm noticing that I'm naturally making slight changes to tunes so they "fall to the fingers" on the banjo when frailing. And I've found I have to use a lot of hammer-ons and pull-offs, plus the thumb string to fill in 8th notes. I've also found that if I look at my hands too much it all goes horribly, horriblywrong So I'm just trying to relax and not think about anything at all - just trusting that my fingers will fall to the notes once I've worked out a phrase or passage.

So, 2 weeks into my banjo journeyI've just made my first recording, which is posted below. The instrument still feels very strange in my hands but hopefully over time it will start to feel more and more natural and begin to sound better too

Robin

updated by @robin-clark: 02/16/19 07:27:23PM

Just curious Aabout what you think of contests?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Very true Robin!

I've not competed in a dulcimer competition (it is a bit of a swim to get across to the US ) but they do seem to be a part of traditional mountain community culture - so perhaps that's is the light they should be viewed under.

I understand the sentiment Mark and Greg"music is an art form, not a competition"but, just perhaps, in cases like this, the competition festival is a historic and cultural community art in itself?

I spend many years living in the Highlands of Scotland and each community's "gathering" was an important date on the callender - and a mix of sport and musical art competitions.

Where I live now, in Wales, the eisteddfod is an important part of the culture. Every child in Wales will compete in singing, dance, poetry or instrument playing right from first school. It is hardly a surprise that Wales is renowned for producingmusicians - the opportunities to practice and be coached are there for all !

So perhaps we should look at mountain dulcimer festival competitions as the continuation of tradition. There were dulcimer competitions held at the first Galax fiddle convention in 1935 (Ruth Melton won!). So that does suggest that music competions were part of mountain community life well before that - and that the dulcimer was looked upon as a worthy instrument for competition! And the settlers would have bought the culture of such events from the home countries.

Kendra - it is good to see you continuing this tradition and heartening to hear that young folk are the ones whofeel particularly energised by these events - long may they continue !

Robin

Robin Thompson said:

Although I don't think of playing dulcimer as competitive sport, contests have been a part of community musical get-togethers for a long time. So, I think of contests as being part of a tradition.

I've never competed and don't know whether I would or not. If the atmosphere of a given competition was light-hearted, friendly, maybe. . .

Snark tuner

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I've got the red one.

It seems to work well on every instrument in our band - double bass, dobro, fiddle, mandolin, guitar, banjo, dulcimer.

I do have some dulcimers where finding somewhere to clip is a problem, so the mic is useful. Eventually I'll buy another and take the clip off, file off the clip lug on the back of the tuner and put a couple of pieces of hard rubber tape on it. Then I'll have just the head with a non-slip backing so I can just place it on the body of my MDs and dobros right in front of me to tune. I do find that my arm gets in the way of the display when the tuner is on the dulcimer headstock.

I use just the head of an old intelitouch tuner like this and the system works well - but the buttons are now not workingtoo goodon that tuner any more so I need to make another. The Snark is such agood tuner I may have to adapt one - it was also stop the rest of the band nicking it !

I'm interested as well.

Robin

Great question and great replies!

Like a couple of folk here I came to fiddle tunes prior to finding the mountain dulcimer.

I was attending a beginners old time session with my partner (she had just started playing the fiddle) and I took my dobro. I quickly realised that the dobro did not really "fit" the session. The session leader (banjo player) suggested I got a mountain dulcimer as he had seen those played in OT sessions when he was in the US in the 70s. I looked "mountain dulcimer" up on google and found that clip of Stephen Seifert playing "Whisky Before Breakfast" so I ordered one.

I started playing chord/melody style at the OT sessions and the instrument fitted in quite well - but the banjo player kept on saying that I wasn't playing it like he had seen! I switched to noter/drone and "saw the light" so to speak. All the pieces came together and I realised I had an instrument with a natural "fit" to OT sessions and fiddle tunes.

Looking at the history of the MD this makes complete sense. There are lots of historic references to two (this is very simplified) styles of playing the instrument - to accompany voice, and to accompany dance. Fiddle tunes were often played with a whipped quill in a 4 srting equidistant set-up and unison tuning, which gives a shuffle bow style of rhythm. And in some areas the instrument was know as a hog fiddle. Playing the instrument to accompany voice and withtwo differing drone notes and 3 strings (or double course melody) became more well known than the 4 string unison tuningdue to the settlement schools and recording folk artists such as Jean Ritchie. The folk revival of the 60s changed playing habits further and chord/melody became the predominant way to play the instrument, as it is today.

So fiddle tunes have played a major part in the history of the instruments development. But playing fiddle tunes is by no means the only tradition for the MD - it is simply one of the threads. Fiddle tunes when played traditionally with noter and quill just seem to sound right to my ears. I particularly like the old unison tuning style of playing. And I get asked to play noter/drone style at sessions to accompany other musicians more than I do chord/melody - perhaps that is because it brings out the uniqueness of the instrument?

Fiddle tunes are older than the dulcimer, so in some respects and in certain areas the dulcimer itself was designed with the popular tunes of the day in mind. In other areas the design relects ballads and in yet others hymns (church dulcimers). We know that the fiddle itself was shunned in certain communities and it is unlikely that the dulcimer was every used for dance tunes in those areas - and different stringing, tuning and playing methods would have been adopted for religious worship. There was some cross-over playing, and there is a reference to this in "Play of a Fiddle" where Dena Knicely (1910-1994) remembers her father Samual Johnson (born 1866) using a feather to play dance tunes and a bow to play hymns on his dulcimer.

I enjoy playing fiddle tunes in dance rhythms more than I do playing ballads - so my dulcimer set-up and playing style reflect this. Some players are very adept at playing fiddle tunes in chord melody style, often as solo pieces (Mark Gilston for one!). I prefer to play in a noter/drone style and with other musicians or for dancing. It is quite something to have folk dancing around a pub to "Angeline the Baker" played noter/drone on the dulcimer as we did on New years Eve

Like I said, fiddle tunes are not the only thread of dulcimer history but certainly in some areas the design, set-up and playing style of the instrument would have been influenced by those tunes in an endeavour to create dance rhythms from this simple home-build folk instrument. And there is something about the adaption of the European fretted zithers into a new American instrument that must be linked with the needs of the music, though I'm not sure what. I see the music driving the design rather than the design coming before the music?

These are just my own thoughts from reading up on dulcimer history and from my personal playing experience.

Robin

Hi Dennis,

Strumelia and Paul have offered some excellent advice, and from the sound of the music you like and your previous musical experience on uke then playing chord/melody and building a dulcimer with extra frets beyond pure diatonic is your most likely final outcome.

However, CD brings home a good point too. At present your decision making for your self-build is being based on just abstract theory and coedified knowledge. There is nothing wrong in that as a starting point but it will not give youthe complete picture or all the information you really need. I see from your profile that you have only just joined us and it looks like you do not presently have a dulcimer? So I would also suggest that you get hold of a very cheap student model, second hand or cardboard dulcimer and get a little "hands on" time. I think that such personal active experience and experimentation combined with the advice from here would really help you find a very comprehensive answer to your questions. Just a little time playing would give you invaluable additional knowledge to put toward the design and build of your own instrument.

John Henry..thought I'd share

OFF TOPIC discussions

Hi John,

I've heard that a little malt whisky is very good for thinning the blood after such a trauma - for purely medicinal purposes of course!

I hope you are back on your feet soon!!!

John Henry..thought I'd share

OFF TOPIC discussions

Hi John,

Tell the old bugger to leave those nurses alone and concentrate on his playing next time you see him!!!

Did you manage to smuggle an MD in tohim? - you could alway say it was abed pan !!!!!!!

Robin

John Shaw said:

I've just been to see John Henry in hospital this afternoon. He's very cheerful - but rather bored! His operation which was due last week was delayed because of equipment failure, and has been rescheduled for tomorrow. He was tickled pink by the interest and concern of his friends on this site, and would love to hear from them.

Show us your sound holes!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

This is certainly the geekiest thread LOL!!!I have Celtic pattern holes on my Galax - I thought they would be pretty apt for someone who lives in a Celtic nation and goes to Celtic sessions.

I do like those basic Melton style holes too. And if I get around to having another Galax dulcimer built (or have a go at building one myself sometime) then that's the pattern I'd copy.

Flint Hill said:

Your favorite dulcimer case!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

This one's pretty good if you want a hard case:

I can get my Walnut Creek and possum board inside it. I bought it from Prussia Valley. And it has been on a few expeditions!

But since I got my Dulcimer Bag Lady double gig bag, my MDs tend to go most places in that. I take two MD out to the pub or round to friends houses about twice a week using this bag and they also live in it at home. Lee made the bag slightly bigger than usual so my Galax would fit, plus my Walnut Creek and possum board:

Dave Lynch built a bomb proof case for shipping the Galax dulcimer he made for me to the UK!

I also have a standard single gig bag (one of the cheap fully zipped ones) and that is really useful for just grabbing an MD and heading out to the hills.

I put the MD in a plastic bag inside the zipped gig bag as these bags are not waterproof. I have tested the system in our Welsh weather!!!!

After this day out with my MD it took two days to dry out the gig bag - but the MD was just fine!

I like that T.K O'Brian gig bag that Robin T owns - That looks like a tough and practical bit of kit.

I don't have a very favourite bag/case as I have found that different circumstances require different bags/cases. I travel a lot with my MDs, and I'm not that careful. I would prefer that an instrument lasts me 5 years and was played to death than 15 years but never left my house. All my instruments have dings and wear marks - it's part of the aging process - but none have been damaged whilst in their respective case or gig bag despite sharing the back of an old van with guitars p/a kit and dogs, or being carried across the Scottish and Welsh mountains or going to a BBQ on the beach with kids or being jostled around in a crowded pub on a Saturday night.

Out of them all, I use my Dulcimer Bag Lady double bag the most as it covers the widest range of my uses. Lee Felt makes great gig bags!!!

Robin

BEGINNERS' OLD TIME JAM – DOWN THE PUB

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi Linda,The first tune is "Frosty Morning". There are at least two tunes by this name. The one we played is a lament written after the Battle of Culloden 1745. Two of my sons were born at Raigmore Hospital which now overlooks the battle ground just outside Inverness.The tune is regularly played a dance speed but I have also heard it played more slowy with great effect.Robin Linda Bowshier said:

Just listened to the first song...what fun! Can you tell me the name of it? I would love to learn it.

Linda

BEGINNERS' OLD TIME JAM – DOWN THE PUB

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Forget the food - I'd go straight for the draft Guiness!!!!It is good to hear you have a welcoming music scene in your town Strumelia.I think that we should make the effort to reclaim our bars and other public spaces for live music. We have had to fight a number of battles over here. And the musicians' political lobby has stopped draconian licencing regulations and amended by-laws on music in bars and other venues. We can now play "incidental music" without the venue needing a music licence. This basically means that you can get paid for a gig and as long as the venue is not selling tickets specifically for your gig then they don't need a licence. Pub landlords have become far more welcoming since this law change.We do have flat screen TVs in pubs over here (but we nick the TV remote from behind the bar at the George when we arrive so we can swich it off). Carrying one of those universal remotes in your MD case should solve that issue in most bars

BEGINNERS' OLD TIME JAM – DOWN THE PUB

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi Jennifer,A "midge" is a tiny gnat - I think that are known as "no-see-ums" in the US. They are ferocious and annoying. We get them in summer on still evenings.Glad you enjoyed the session recording! We had great fun!!!Robin Jennifer Ranger said:

Oh my goodness, you guys sound fantastic!!
I'm listening to your MP3 right now and I LOVE it!

By the way, what's a "midge"?

Thanks for posting this.

BEGINNERS' OLD TIME JAM – DOWN THE PUB

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks Larry,Playing live music together builds what the boffins would call "social capital" in our community - coz there sure isn't much of any other sort of capital in these parts at present!Ken - I can't manage a narrow boat - how about a canoe! Just be careful paddling over the aquaduct at Llangollen, it's a long way to fall out of your canoe!!!

BEGINNERS' OLD TIME JAM – DOWN THE PUB

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi Dusty,Yep - I do think that I was very lucky to find this group of players. And the beer is great over here!!!!It is Nick's fault that I started to play MD last year! I bought my good lady a fiddle for Christmas 2009 as a surprise present (she said a while before that if she ever learnt to play a musical instrument she would want to learn fiddle). We started to go to the beginner old time sessions Nick was running and I would take my dobro but quickly realised the instrument was not a good "fit". Nick suggested that I tried a mountain dulcimer as he had seen someone play one at an old time jam he had been to in the US a good few years back. So I looked the instrument up on Google and bought my Walnut Creek from a shop in the US - having never seen an MD in my life!!! I guess I bought the instrument specifically for playing with other musicians knowing nothing about its history or playing styles. I started with chord/melody as it seemed the most "musical" way to play but it didn't really cut through at mixed instrument sessions and got a little muddy and lost. Nick kept saying that the player he'd seen didn't play like I did but used a stick on the frets. So I switched to noter playing and everything started to come together. After some advice from folks on ED, I looked up Phyllis Gaskin's and Bonnie Russell's recordings, both of whom recorded with string bands, and discovered Galax style tuning d,d,d,d And that really opened up possibilities. It gave me the punch and speed I needed for fast fiddle tunes. Plus I could play in the keys of D and G without re-tuning and the key of A (major and minor) if I used a capo on the drones at the first fret. That d,d,d,d tuning is not a "pretty" tuning for solo playing - so I can see why it is not more widely used - but, when I play with another instrument filling out the sound it really comes to life.So I actually bought my MD specifically for playing old time with other instruments in sessions, rather than as a solo instrument - not knowing that session playing was not the "norm" for the instrument (I thought that's what everyone did with the darn thing!!!!) And perhaps not knowing anything was the best place to start !!!!!!Robin

BEGINNERS' OLD TIME JAM – DOWN THE PUB

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Our beginners old time session has been going for just over a year now and we held this week's session at the George III pub last night. The session is led by Nick who plays banjo (and knows hundreds of old time tunes) and Chris on mandolin and tenor guitar. The rest of us have been playing our instruments for about 18 months. Last night we had 2 fiddles, mountain dulcimer, guitar, tenor guitar and banjo. And we went to the George III pub for the session. We feel we are pretty much at the stage where we can (just) get away with simply turning up and playing in a public place.

Nick has been excellent at bringing on us new musicians not just teaching us the tunes but also aspects of jam etiquette, collective playing and general musicianship. And it has been the simple stuff like back off and play rhythm while verses are sung that have made the difference. As a result, we have all progressed far quicker than we hoped.

We played outside the pub last night for an hour or so until the midges chased us inside during Soldiers Joy! So we played for the second half of the evening inside the pub.

Attached is a compilation from the evening recorded on my Zoom H2.

If you are thinking about attending old time jams with your MD I hope you find the encouragement and the guidance that we have. Playing collectively with good musicians is such an excellent way to develop your skills and stretch you out of your comfort zone (in a positive way).

updated by @robin-clark: 01/13/16 07:26:27PM

Don't worry about using your left thumb, loads of players do.That angled position that David and Stephen use is quite distinctive and does free up the back - but it is not a common playing position.A strap completely solved "dancing dulcimer syndrome" for me. I can relax way more with a strap and get my MD into a position that suits my style of playing - no matter what I'm sitting on!

Robin

Ahhh!!!!!Galax tuning has some very specific advantages, particularly when you start playing with other musicians. From d,d,d,d you can play in the keys of D or G without re-tuning and, using a reverse capo at the first fret or tuning the drones up to e,e you can play in the key of A minor and A major. Those 4 keys are the standard session keys for old time and Celtic sessions.Whilst I would agree that Galax tuning is not as "sweet" as 1-5 drones when played solo it is an excellent tuning when you add one or more additional instruments. Additionally, as Folkfan says, you can use the bagpipe varient (or Galax) to produce a very ancient sound. The single drone (often the 5th rather than the root) is a feature of old Celtic music.Once you start playing with other musicians you will certainly "get" Galax and bagpipe.Robin

This is a very interesting thread!I have no evidence for what I'm about to suggest, just drawing from your posts above.I wonder if both the keys of C and D were actually regularly used in "Olden Days" (which arn't really that old - my house is the same age as the earliest dated MD). Different regions would have had different primary uses for the instrument and therefore taken tunes from differing sources.Tunes in the key of C, the "church" key would have been more likely to be written down. Hymns would have been primarily composed on the pump organ/piano by musically literate folk and passed from community to community in written form. The first written books for MD would have come from musically literate folk, much of their material (hymns) would have been in the key of C and it would make sense to transpose folk songs for the MD into the same key for instruction.Mountain music was more likely to be learned by ear. If you were listening to your uncle play a tune on the fiddle then you are most likely to copy it in the same key. The key of D makes sense as a base. These tunes would be passed from community to community by ear in an aural tradition and would not have been written down until outsider schollars became interested.In some communities it is quite plausable that you could drink, dance and drone with the devil in D on a Saturday night and then chime in church with the choir in C on the Sunday morning!Robin

I've been using a goose quill noter for the past couple of weeks and I'm really impressed with the speed and tone. They are as quick and bright as a hardwood noter but kill the string vibration when moving between frets, so they give very pricise note separation for fast playing. I'm not sure how durable they will prove - I expect I'll probably get through a feather a month. But they are cheap and seem to work really well for my style of playing. I play with a finger-on-top style. A feather noter may not work so well for a thumb on top style. I think that for fast fiddle tunes in Galax style, feather noters are the very best I have tried so far.

Feather noter and strumming quill

Hi Carson,Have a look at Randy Adams videos to see fretless dulcimers - Here's one

He makes cigar box fretless MDs and uses a 4 string set-up plus a multitude of old banjo tunings. The strings are sounded not by depressing them to the fingerboard but by placing the tip of the noter onto the fingerboard and touching the string. Like this photo of the technique on a fretted MD:

Note that the string is not touching the frets - it is vibrating against the noter and the vibrations are transfered into the fretboard and instrument by the tip of the noter.A hard noter, such as snakewood, gives a very clear sound when doing this. And I use the technique on my fretted MD to play the missing semitones and occasional accidentals that some folk tunes have, or to change key. For example, when playing in d,d,d,d galax style I can capo at the 1st fret and play in both A minor and A major by playing the G# of A major using this technique - a very handy skill at sessions! With a bit of practice you can rock the noter up onto its tip really fast. You can see me snatching the G# accidental by rocking the noter up onto its tip and sounding the string between the G and A frets in the B part of St Annes Reel (key of D) on this video.

Robin Carson Turner said:

Robin Clark said:

I also think it would be a excellent wood for a fretless set-up

Fretless dulcimer? We have that option? I'm intrigued, who makes these?

Hi Dave,Noters are certainly disposable items - so it's best not to become too attached to them! There is only so much sanding they can take to repair the surface grooves until they are too thin to use.I have snakewood and mahogany noters at present. The snakewood is hard, fast (very fast!!!) and wear resistant. It whistles on the strings and you have to be very accurate if you are using double melody strings as a miss-fretted note will sound as loud off the surface of the noter as a fretted note. For this reason, I perfef to use snakewood for a single melody string set-up. I also think it would be a excellent wood for a fretless set-up (are you listening Randy!) as the tone off the wood so just so clear.The mahogany noters I have are reasonably wear resistant, have a good tone and allow me to get away with murder on a double melody string set-up as they are quieter when played unfretted (with the string just ringing against the noter surface). Because mahogany is a bit "dull" it actually makes for much clearer fretted playing. I would say that a noter made from a very hard wood that is wear resistant can be a bit "lively" and more difficult to handle than a moderate hardwood in most situations - particularly if you use a double melody set-up.I'm certainly keen to keep trying as many materials and shapes as I can get my hands on. The search for the perfect noter is like the search for the perfect wave - even if you do find it the ride ain't going to last for long!Robin

purpose of design features on a MD

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi D.T.Here are some photos of the board. I simply cut it from a piece of ply. It really only took me an hour or so to build. I didn't put much time into it as I wasn't sure if it would work - but I've been using it every day for the last 9 months!

I use a strap on my MD and the board and MD sit together snuggly because of those little flanges at each end.Robin Dusty Turtle said:

Robin, might I ask what the dimensions of your possom board are? I had never really thought about using one, largely because I mainly play alone so volume isn't an issue. But your description makes me wonder how my dulcimer would sound with a possom board. I play with a strap and can only imagine putting a small board underneath.

D.T.

Robin Clark said:

I built a simple possum board for my MD and was very surprised at the difference it made. It has given the instrument more volume and a rounder tone. I have a strap on my MD and it holds the MD and the possum board that the MD rests on just fine - I have found no need to attach the two together. Having heard what a possum board can do, I am having a Galax style false back built onto the MD I have presently on order as I want the possum board built-in for ease of use.

Robin

purpose of design features on a MD

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I built a simple possum board for my MD and was very surprised at the difference it made. It has given the instrument more volume and a rounder tone. I have a strap on my MD and it holds the MD and the possum board that the MD rests on just fine - I have found no need to attach the two together. Having heard what a possum board can do, I am having a Galax style false back built onto the MD I have presently on order as I want the possum board built-in for ease of use.Robin

I like a 3 string set-up for chord/melody and generally playing with my fingers and a 4 string set-up for noter/drone. I have used two different 4 string set-ups - the standard close paired melody course and the Galax style wider spaced melody course. I'm not too sure which I prefer. A close pair feels slightly easier to play and the wider spaced pair (Galax) seems more balanced - I'm still experimenting with this.Robin

Bobby McFerrin: The power of the pentatonic scale

OFF TOPIC discussions

Hey - I really liked that!!!!

Robin

I had a string break at last night's session so I tried the "loop through ball" as a quick way to get a new string on (I only had ball end strings available). It worked! I had the string on and stabalised at pitch by half way through the next tune.