Mutual acknowledgement
Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?
The dulcimer community has been the most positive, helpful and encouraging out of any instrument I've played, by a lot.
The dulcimer community has been the most positive, helpful and encouraging out of any instrument I've played, by a lot.
It looks to me like the spacer is not only meant to keep the strings at their correct distance, but also is meant to pull them down over the zero fret. That is why the strings are going through holes, and not just resting over the top like an actual nut.
My mistake I thought the nails were screws. Are the nails loose? It visually looks like the spacer is meant to be flush with the edge of the fingerboard, but has been pulled out of place and tipped over by the force of the strings.
if you were to tighten those screws, would the nut be upright and flush with the end of the fingerboard? It seems to be leaning pretty dramatically toward the zero fret and the screws look pretty loose. Maybe is just needs to be re-secured
Is that "nut" screwed into the fretboard?? Thats a.....creative.....solution.....
I think it would be simpler to replace the string spacer bar than to replace the tuners. Theoretically, if the spacer bar is lower than the 0 fret, it shouldn't matter that the tuners are higher than the spacer. The only challenge is anchoring the spacer to the headstock well enough that force from the strings doesnt lift the spacer up.
Lots of options for that, good luck!
Nate
That's really cool. That would be a really useful thing for me to do on dulcimers I make with eye bolts for tuners, since theyre super finicky to fine tune
I am curious about how that affects the break angle of the string. Is the bead difficult to move, due to the pressure on it, or does it slide easily?
Okay, I think that is what I originally thought ken H meant. So, the strings are always in contact with the bridge, and the beads do not change the VSL for intonation? The beads just redistribute the tension that is past the VSL, to allow small tuning adjustments to the open string?
Thanks to both kens and Robin for the explanation. The fact that it also has an installed bridge in front of them made that unintuitive to me. Now that I understand better, that seems like a very clever feature.
Oooh, so are they basically fine adjusters for bridge intonation? Sort of like having a separate floating bridge under each string? Kind of like on an electric guitar bridge?
That's really interesting. So is it basically the case that sliding the beads forward and back slightly changes the amount of tension?
Could those beads on the strings be "dampers" similar to the ones on some mandolins and other instruments with a lot of string length past the VSL? Just a thought, I'm not familiar with that sort of fine tuners so I don't really know or understand how they would function.
John, I don't really do anything that special. I like to mix sweet fruits and berries with tart fruits and berries to balance it out to my own taste. I have a friend who collects wild honey so I use that whenever I get the chance, but usually I like brown sugar, and sometimes settle for white sugar. I leave all the pulp and skin in the mixture, then filter it out after fermentation. I use champagne yeast and a specific gravity gauge to measure the alcohol content and usually stop fermentation at 15% abv. I filter it with cheesecloth and allow the fine particulate pulp to remain, because I believe that a small amount of flesh and skin can decrease hangover symptoms.
Ooh, that is exciting Nate, you are a winemaker now!
we have blueberries coming soon on our backyard bushes. We already put the netting over them to keep the birds from eating them. The blue jays and squirrels would eat them all otherwise.
Very excited to see that the Oregon grape bush in front of my apartment is ripening! Oregon grape is the state flower of Oregon, but a lot of folks here don't know that it's edible and makes a delicious tart wine when fermented. The flavor is like a pomegranate flesh with a plum skin. I am stoked to be starting a gallon of wine today!
Really glad to hear you're recovering, John. I'll keep you in my prayers. Hope you're feeling well soon.
Wow! People who wrote on that page use English in some mysterious ways!
" Its is made of sturdy metal, which is very. "
LOL whoops, I typed out almost the exact same message you did at the same time
Both the bridge and nut look to be in slots. If I am understanding correctly, the issue is that they do not fit snugly into the slots and are not glued into place, so the bridge and nut are being pulled sideways in their slots by the force of the low D string.
After seeing the photos, I definitely think that you should remove the strings, and then glue the nut and bridge into place, taking serious care to make sure that they are perfectly centered on the fingerboard, and also being very careful to make sure that the nut is held firmly in place while the glue sets. you seriously want to avoid leaving any kind of gap between the nut and the fingerboard, as that will mess up your intonation. On some dulcimers, the bridge and nut can be replaced for different string arrangements, but your bridge and nut have slots for both of the common arrangements, so probably the bridge and nut were not intended to be sitting loosely.
I had no idea there were so many factors to consider. I'm used to switching between tunings on the banjo like crazy and assumed I'd have a similar experience on the dulcimer.
I have one dulcimer with this issue and what I noticed is that without the second melody string, my whole bridge and nut slide juuuust enough to recenter the strings on the fretboard almost perfectly, lol. Actually ended up deciding not to fix it.
It is not normal though. Typically, when the bridge and nut are both unglued it is best to have string spacers past them, which hold the strings in the correct places. Normally the nut serves as a spacer on the head end, and the anchor pins correctly space the strings at the tail end, but since your nut is not glued down, I would say there are two possible fixed that come to mind:
1: Simply glue the nut into it's slot. I personally think that gluing things down that weren't built to be glued can be bad practice down the line, but typically on many dulcimers, the nut would already be glued in.
2 Build a small "string spacer." It could look something like this simple drawing.
The spacer would be placed under the strings, just past the nut toward the pegbox, and would relieve that pressure pulling sideways before the tension gets to the nut. The spacer should be about 1/8" wider than the fingerboard, and that extra width should hang off the bass side with a small "leg" that can hold onto the corner of the fingerboard to keep it from pulling. The spacer should be made of a hardwood, with slots cut at the same spacing as the slots on the nut. Make sure the slots are deep, so the strings arent being lifted off the nut by the spacer. I would recommend doing this, because it doesnt damage or alter the dulcimer. The piece could be made easily and can be removed at any time.
Hello! I live in Europe (born and raised in KY) and today I was browsing the website of a chain of music stores here called "Muziker." I was intrigued by the fact that their acoustic guitar section was divided into three sections: "dreadnought," "jumbo," and "folk." The first two were self-explanatory, but I was curious about the third. It seemed to be mostly parlor and 0-shaped guitars, with one very pretty archtop thrown in. Furthermore, I've heard banjo players here refer to longnecked banjos as "folk banjos." The plot thickens.
Since I come from simple folk, it was explained to me quite simply: a folk instrument wasn’t a commercial instrument, and widely available.
What makes it a folk instrument? Being played by folks, of course! Not fancy musicianers or college educated theoreticians, or masters of stage.... just folks. Lol, but seriously I think that the interpersonal nature of folk tradition and instruction really defines a folk instrument, like Dusty said.
I also think that, more importantly, folk music and folk instrument tend to be words that people self describe with, denoting a modesty and sincerity to either the style of music or to the instrument. The word "folk" tells me that I can expect music that is intimate and genuine and not under some allusion of being excessively formal or pretentious.
I have been giving away my dulcimers to people around town, and out of the 10 or so that I had a couple months ago, I now own 3. One problem with making experimental dulcimers is that I end up with *tons* that don't look or sound that good. I'd still feel bad just breaking them down for their hardware, though, so they pile up until I offload them on local musicians. lol
I think the reason Richard suggested using loop end strings was not to save time, but to minimize the possibility that the wood might degrade and lose the grip on the screw. If you never have to unscrew the screw, the wood would be more likely to stay intact.
you can also make a loop end string out of a ball end string by removing the ball. Just squeeze it with some plyers and pry it out.
When I am using wood screws for ball end strings, I will usually use this type
So that the screw is nice and secure
In my experience, loop end strings for dulcimers tend to be in very particular light gauges that aren't ideal for much tension in DAD tuning with shorter VSLs. I prefer much thicker gauge strings, which usually means buying guitar strings, either individually, or just a set that includes the gauges i want.
Personally, I use screws as well as ball end strings on a lot of my dulcimers and don't find that it adds much time at all to replacing strings, less than a minute of screwing and unscrewing total. I would say that pins or headless nails look much nicer though.
Those screws look pretty short, I'd say replace them all with longer ones. Putting two strings on one screw or nail seems like a lot of stress, even if it were a longer one. Since the two ball ends are stacked, the 'top' one will be applying a lot of leverage. It looks like there is a small crack running from the screw hole already, but maybe that's just a surface scratch. If the instrument will be 4 string in the future, consider drilling a 4th hole next to the melody string anchor and replacing all 4 with longer screws or finishing nails.
This was a really cool learning opportunity
Thanks for suggesting this topic
Nate
Dusty, the link between using the 6.5 fret and also fretting on the middle string is exactly what I was thinking.
Ken, that is cool and informative I had never even considered that other fret layouts could be used.
A related question I have is: are there any historical examples of dulcimers with partial/staple frets that also include a 6.5 or 1.5? Also, was 1-5-8 in use before the 6.5 was added?
Thank you Ken Dan Robin and Randy for the information, I suspect that investigating these designs will provide me with useful information
A while ago on here I saw a dulcimer that had gap under the tail end of the fingerboard, with the string tension pulling it up from the box. The idea was that by having the tail end of the fingerboard (where the strings were mounted) detached from the box, the string tension would pull hard on the area with the string pins, lifting it so that it hovers a couple millimeters above the soundboard potentially increasing volume. Does anyone know what this feature is called, so I can look into it more?
Having set up many violins & cellos etc over the years....You may want to explore using a sound post. Not really a "dulcimer" thing, but you're an outside the box kinda guy anyway. If you Google "adjustable soundposts" you will find much info good and bad about using them in so- called "real" instruments... Bottom line, is that moving the amount and location of tension to the vibrating surfaces [top and bottom] can and does change the tonal qualities. I suggest an adjustable only because there are no standard rules when it comes to dulcimers and the dimensions. Instead of having to re mount your strings, an adjustable may give you more room to play around, or just source some dowel rod and have at it..[or pencils, chopsticks,...] Changing the tensions to the body and try and find the "sweet" spot[s] if any? Then we'll have to find out if heart holes with pointy bottoms sound as good as rounded ones......
just the meanderings of a wandering mind......
I think if you had half of the string tension pulling up and half the string tension pushing down, the result is not increased tension but rather a neutralized/balance of tension not helping at all...
I am trying to ask about how to utilize the string tension to put the box under extra pressure, and if this can be good for tone or volume.
Here is a drawing that hopefully helps explain
Let's assume the dulcimers have identical dimensions and the same break angle, and the only difference is whether they are mounted to the fingerboard or the box.
In figure A, when the strings are anchored to the fingerboard, the 60-100 pounds of string tension should be trying to pry the fingerboard up off the box. I am wondering if this "pulling" is adding extra stress and tension to the box, and if having the wood under more stresses makes it more rigid and stiff and allows it to transmit vibration better.
In figure B, when the strings are anchored to the side of the box, the 60-100 pounds of string tension is laying across the end of the fingerboard, pushing it down into the top of the box. I am also wondering if this improves overall responsiveness of the instrument, by distributing that 'pulling force" across the tailpiece into the side panels.
I hypothesize that if you could mount half your strings to a tailpiece and the other half to the fingerboard, the forces would be pulling the fingerboard up while also pushing it down, adding a huge amount of stress to it, possibly making it more stiff and responsive.
Hey folks, this question might be poorly asked but here goes.
Does a soundbox that is under more tension have any additional clarity or additional volume? Is this the reason that 'lighter' builds are more responsive?
When I think about a musical saw, the volume seems to directly correspond to the amount of tension out on the saw blade.
Similarly, a washtub bass seems to be quite a bit louder on its high pitched notes, when the string is pulling the hardest on the tub.
I have been thinking a lot about where the strings are anchored on my dulcimers. Anchoring them to the fingerboard should apply an upward 'pulling' force on the area of the fingerboard with the pins. Meanwhile if the pins are anchored on an actual tailpiece of the box, they are stretched across the end of the fingerboard and are 'pushing' it down into the soundboard.
Does one of these produce more resonance than the other?
Here is a picture of a test dulcimer I built where the strings can be mounted to either the box or the fingerboard. (Sorry it's a bit ugly, form follows function) I am thinking of mounting both outer strings to the fingerboard, and the middle string to the box. My speculation is that this will put a huge amount of extra tension on the fingerboard, and the middle string will help prevent the fingerboard from being pulled off the soundboard. sadly I can't test this out until the local music shop opens back up in a few days.
Any information of how much tension matters, and how to properly harness that would be greatly appreciated
Something I've wondered for a while is, if dulcimer is written in the Bible spelled 'dulcimer', are different spellings a stylization of the word done on purpose or just a product of limited literacy in the deep mountains?
That's a fun question. I've always wanted a Homer Ledford dulcibro. The craftsmanship is gorgeous, I love the metal sound, and it's a piece of dulcimer history. Unfortunately, but justifiably, they are quite expensive so that one might be a while for me lol.