Forum Activity for @nate

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Robin, I have gotten value from your posts and am glad to see you back. Merry Christmas to you, as well.

Nate

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have been working on a dulcimer made from goodwill materials only. Metal cans and trays plus wooden cigar boxes for the body, toothpicks frets, and eye bolt tuners. The fingerboard is just a 1/4" thick and 1.5" across strip of poplar. I am out of town but plan on finishing it as soon as I return. The whole thing will end up costing about 5$ and wont require any actual instrument parts. I've been having a lot of fun lately learning ways to make very accessible dulcimers that can be built without many tools and hardware, and with very little knowledge or skill. 

Nickel allergy--nylon strings on an octave dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

[quote="shanonmilan"]

[/quote] Does it also make it sound better that you use a specially coated string?

[/quote] 
Shanon, each material sounds slightly different, but I don't personally think any sound better than any others.Some are magnetic, which is useful for a dulcimer with electric pickups. Some use fancier metals under the premise that they sound better, but I personally like the different sounds of all string types. Maybe a more refined ear would hear more of a difference.
Nate

Any banjo players out there?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

My uncle just gave me one of his banjos! It's something I've always wanted to learn.

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have no evidence for this, but I suspect that many things we might consider 'traditional' now were done out of necessity at the time. This has always been a bit of a paradox for me. I assume the original developers of dulcimers were very innovative folks who were applying the concepts of older zithers to the materials they had in the Appalachians. This makes it hard for me to tell the difference between deliberate choices made by the 'masters of old' and choices made purely out of necessity. It's hard for me to imagine that they would have used staple frets if they had access to fretwire. Similarly, I have a personal hypothesis that noters were invented to allow a player to keep playing on super old grimy strings.

In both cases, the choices they made then shape what we consider to be the "dulcimer sound" and the "role of the dulcimer." I imagine that over 100 years ago, people may have made themselves all sorts of improvised zithers based on concepts they learned from European instruments. Probably what we consider 'traditional' are the ones that lasted long enough to be documented, but I suspect that with a time machine, we could go back and see all sorts of different 'dulcimers' with different features and roles. Mostly I think it's human nature to evolve and adapt, and I suspect that if you could bring those innovative inventors to the modern day, they would probably be ecstatic to hear how much the instrument has developed and grown.

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

It is interesting to think that at a time when European antecedents were 'traditional,' at one point the dulcimer was probably considered an innovative new thing. I wonder if there were once epinette players who saw new fancy zitters shaped like violins with heart shaped soundholes and looked down on them for not being traditional.

Your real question is too big for me to answer, but I'm sure some folks on here definitely could. If you havent already I recommend joining the Dulcimer History group
https://fotmd.com/ken-longfield/group/38/mountain-dulcimer-history-traditions
and the Dulcimer Ancestors group
https://fotmd.com/strumelia/group/14/dulcimer-ancestors

Strings turned iridescent?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
Thank you for sharing this neat and informative experiment. You were entirely correct, and the strings eventually fully oxidized to a dull color. Cool while they lasted!
Nate

Maple, and only maple, for a dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
Different species of maple have different properties, and different trees of the same species will still vary slightly. Two boards from different parts of the same tree can even sound fairly different.  I haven't heard any type of wood yet that I felt produced a 'bad sounding dulcimer.' I do enjoy maple a lot for it's durability though, plus it's a beautiful looking wood.

Nate

I've Just Bought a BANJO !!!!

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Well Ken, I'd suppose that is 6 years of skill developed!

Basic Tuning Question

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 

Hey Brad, don't forget that dulcimer capos work a bit differently than guitar capos. Plenty of folks make nice dulcimer capos, but you can also use a pencil/chopstick/crochet hook fastened to the fretboard with a piece of string tied around the box of the dulcimer. I personally use a C clamp with a wine bottle cork super glued to the side of it

Nate

6 String Dulcimer Question

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

6 strings provide a fuller "choral" sound. In my opinion, if you are doing a lot of chording, it is much more comfortable with three strings. If you are playing noter drone, more strings often make for a fuller sound. If you are mostly fretting on the melody string, you might consider leaving "courses" (aka 2 strings right next to eachother) for the middle and bass string, or just a "course" for the bass string. I usually play with three strings, and a lot of other folks do as well, but I personally prefer the sound of the extra strings, though it is more difficult. I hope you have a lot of fun exploring this instrument, and there is no harm in removing strings if you prefer to play that way.
Nate

Help with ID of recent thrift shop purchase

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

What a cool resolution 

Native American Flutes

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I have always found the appropriation of dream catchers pretty amusing. Many tribes believe that spider web charms need to be periodically purged through ritual, as they attract and accumulate negative spirits. In Hupa culture, 'dreamcatchers' are associated with a protective spider spirit who is also a moon spirit, and therefore, spiderweb charms are purged through a ritual once every full moon.
I suspect most people who buy them at tchotchke shops are not aware of these sorts of details and are effectively just attracting negative energy to themselves, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Of course, most "dreamcatchers" are just woven mandalas with some feathers and beads glued to the edges and couldn't even be used as a spider web charm. For example, most tribes believe that a spider web charm needs to have a specific number of terminating points along its hoop, typically 12.

I suspect most people who buy them don't actually subscribe to any sort of native american spiritualism, and don't really care one way or the other.

How to train my ear

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That is a cool tip Dusty, thanks for sharing.
 I'd like to develop a better ear for tuning. If I  use my keyboard to tune my dulcimer then check it with a tuner, I can get the bass string pretty close, but the higher pitches are up to 35 cents off. And thats after spending a few minutes plucking back and forth. I can usually hear the 'beating' of the frequencies being slightly different, but can't really tell whether I need to tune up or down to fix it

How to train my ear

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I've wondered a lot if the music that I listens to "untrains" my ears. I listen to quite a bit of blues from 1920-1950 and a LOT of it is only "relative tuned" from the top string down. I've never been good at all at knowing whether a note is flat or sharp, and if a note is flat or sharp it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the music. Starting to think I might have permanently screwed up my pitch perception

updated by @nate: 10/24/23 11:56:39AM

Vintage Dulcimer Builds

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
congrats on the purchase! its a fine looking instrument and I hope you have fun with it.

Vintage Dulcimer Builds

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
That is definitely going on the "think about more until I have a good way to implement it" list, Ken

Vintage Dulcimer Builds

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

At the risk of making light of a serious situation, a dulcimer full of muddy water sounds like something I'd like to try playing. I have been wanting to try to make a dulcimer that is entirely coated in a waterproof finish, inside and out, and let it "soak" to see if anything happens.

Fiddle

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Thank you very much shanon! I'm already having a lot of fun with it :)

Nickel allergy--nylon strings on an octave dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thats pretty interesting. Does the red rub off on your finders while practicing?

Native American Flutes

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

 
Irene, if you are not in a place where bone can be shipped to you easily from an online seller, I have found that some pet stores sell large intact chunks of cow bones in the dog bone section
updated by @nate: 10/02/23 07:35:53AM

Native American Flutes

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

That is super cool Salt. I couldn't find one that was Hupa or Wiyot, but this Yurok flute may have been similar to the ones my ancestors heard, since there was a lot of cultural overlap.

Nickel allergy--nylon strings on an octave dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I hadn't heard of the

"Aquila 11B red series" but the product description says "Nylgut made firstly elastic and then added with red copper powder in order to increase the density to about twice that of standard white Nylgut"

which I found really interesting. Id be curious to know whether they feel like metal or plastic to the touch.

Native American Flutes

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Thanks for sharing salt, these are cool. To my sensibilities, different tribes had different flutes and "Native American flute" is just a general term for one style of flute that some tribes made, which has been adapted into a western instrument.. Obviously pre-colombian flutes were not in A440, so that makes most "native American flutes" I've seen "cultural appropriation." The flutes I've seen in tribal museums, as well as the Musical Instrument Museum were often visually and functionally very different from each other.  If it were built traditionally, I would expect the name of a tribe and not just "native American." 

And Irene, I really look forward to seeing that dulcimer!

updated by @nate: 09/30/23 01:39:47AM

Native American Flutes

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

That is interesting Steve. It seems pretty silly to me but this is America and we do love to sue. As I was trying to look into it more, it seems like the native American flute got loopholed into being included as an "American Indian craft" just due to its name, since the instrument was called such for quite a while before that law was written. Still silly to me though, that someone would see the descriptor "native American" and directly assume that it must have been made by a real one, let alone it happening so often they passed a law lol. The flute herself does not know or care whether she is native American or native American style. Either way that law is interesting.

Nate

updated by @nate: 09/29/23 07:00:29PM

Nickel allergy--nylon strings on an octave dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I often use mandolin strings on my dulcimer, which are phosphor bronze. At my local music shop, they are only a dollar more than the pack of dulcimer strings but come with 2 of each gauge. They are basically the same gauge as dulcimer strings, and the extra 2 thickest strings can be tuned a fifth lower than the root note, so with one pack you could string up a 4 string dulcimer Dadd and a 3 string dulcimer AEa, or whatever tunings suit your VSL. 

Nate

Native American Flutes

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Steve, I believe "native American flute" just denotes the origin of the style of the flute, not that specific flute. To me it's a bit like saying you have to be French to build a French horn, English to build an English concertina, or Appalachian to build an Appalachian dulcimer.

Some people might actually agree with that last one

Nickel allergy--nylon strings on an octave dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

In general an instrument built for steel strings will have less volume and sustain when using nylon strings. This is because nylon strings are typically at a much lower tension, and dulcimers made for nylon strings are typically lighter, in order to be more responsive. The strings will eventually stop stretching and will keep their tune. If youre not happy with the tone you might be best off sticking to metal strings. I do like silver coated strings, as well as plain steel. I dont know much about nickel allergies and how careful you have to be, but I also used cobalt strings one time and gold coated strings another and found the tone nice for both.

updated by @nate: 09/28/23 11:07:51AM

Fiddle

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Thanks a ton to both of you for the positive encouragement! So far I've been keeping the headstock tuner turned on while I practice scales, so I can adjust. Ive never been great at knowing if I'm in tune so this will be a big challenge for me.

Fiddle

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Ken, I've become a bit of an instrument hoarder and I probably own more instruments than anyone could master in a lifetime, so I get what you mean. The fiddle is one that I feel more motivation for than other instruments so I finally bought myself a beginner model. I am hoping some stuff I learned on mandolin can transfer over

Nate

Fiddle

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Haha I like that dusty. I must be a fast learner because it only took me about 30 seconds to be bad at it

Fiddle

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Ive just started learning fiddle! It's the one instrument that Ive always wished I was really good at, if I could pick one. Guess it's finally time to get that ball rolling! 

Nate

Checking in

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Shooter, I built a cigar box guitar tuned DAD before I built any dulcimers. To me a 3 string CBG is the same as a chromatic strumstick. Cigar box guitars led me to building dulcimers, and I still like building cigar box dulcimers a lot. It's all a lot of fun

PS I recommend that new mandolin players start with 1 string per course while learning the chords, then add in the second string once you have the shapes down. Those strings can really shred up your fingertips and limit the amount of time you can practice when you're first starting, which makes a lot of people burn out on Mando 

Nate

Accompaniment

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of pickups because of all the added fuss of having to bring an amp and make sure you have power supply, plus I'm not someone you can trust with cords around their feet lol.

That's why I make some of my dulcimers really thin, really large in volume, with metal cake pans, and with really heavy gauge strings. They're SUPER loud and can hold their ground against other instruments when played acoustically. In fact I have to play very gently when playing with other dulcimers or I will drown them out lol.

I have only seen one real resonator dulcimer and it was even louder than mine, so a dulcibro seems like the ticket if you want to be louder than the banjo. In general some dulcimers are much louder than others, and are better suited to playing alongside loud instruments. 

updated by @nate: 09/13/23 06:14:32PM

Accompaniment

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 
Shanon, most dulcimers are relatively quiet when compared to other instruments, and are easily "drowned out" by banjos, mandolins, fiddles, resonator guitars, etc. I don't like to think of it as 'drowned out' though, I like to think of it as fitting in nicely. It's not always that easy to discern a dulcimer when played with louder instruments, but the music does still sound fuller for having one. With modern tech you could make a dulcimer way louder than everything else if you wanted to, but if youre sitting between a banjo and a fiddle and it's all acoustic, your dulcimer isnt going to be very pronounced.

I wish I had the opportunity to play dulcimer with concertina, but I don't know anybody with one. Id love to get myself a concertina and learn to play but i already own a handful of instruments that I haven't learned yet so I think the concertina might have to wait a while
updated by @nate: 09/13/23 06:40:55AM

Maybe ive been in the dark but how cool is THIS?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I forgot to mention, you can find those built in pre-amps with tuners online for anywhere from 15-300$ depending on the quality. You'd have to cut a hole in the side of your merlin to install the display into, and youd have to cut a slot into your bridge under your saddle for the pickup to sit in. Nothing too complicated to do yourself, and definitely something you could get done by a pro if you wanted to. Just make sure you get a preamp small enough to fit in your instrument, perhaps a ukulele preamp.

Maybe ive been in the dark but how cool is THIS?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have built a dulcimer with a fishman preamp that I recycled from an acoustic guitar. It had an UST or basically a pickup under the bridge and had a built in metronome, tuner, and tone controls.

Personally I am not a big fan of how amplification changes the tone so much, however I'm also not a big fan of the hollow, plunking tone that strumsticks often have. I have tried one of those little piezos, and preferred that, because the original tone was mostly preserved. In my opinion, many strumsticks players are also guitar players who want a more gutsy, guitar like tone, and install pickups to achieve that. 

When it comes to tuners built into amps, maybe this is just me, but I find their displays to be very unintuitive to use to tune. I have a headstock tuner but I mostly use an app on my phone. A modern smartphone has a very high quality microphone, typically better quality than you'll ever need for tuning, and also typically better than an actual tuner, plus the display is much bigger and has more details. The clip on can be handy in a group setting or anywhere noisy.

Nate

updated by @nate: 09/10/23 04:29:40PM

Confused about Sharps and Flats

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

To give a specific example of how key and temperament affect notes on the dulcimer, if you had 3 dulcimers built to be tuned (EBE) and
one was "equal temperament"
one was "mean tone temperament"
one was "just intonated"
G# would be flatter on the "just intonated" dulcimer than it is on the equal temperament dulcimer
G# would be sharper on the "meantone" dulcimer than it would on the equal temperament dulcimer.
That is not a common tuning, but it is an example of one where G# is quite different for each temperament, since you mentioned G#.

The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 
I think a tin whistle can be a really abrasive sound in the hands of a new player. When I started on tin whistle, I didnt have any breath control and would always waver in and out of pitch or blow too hard and hit the higher octave. Luckily it was just my cats who had to be there for that learning experience, but they made it very clear that they were worried about me xD

At least a plastic recorder, as much as I don't like the sound, is a bit quieter and less sharp of a tone. I can imagine that children who are genuinely interested could benefit a lot from learning tin whistle, but that the average 3rd grader, if given a tin whistle, would be a true menace xD

The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 
I find the idea of associating counting with musical notes to be fascinating for a developing mind, since they have different number bases (demical system being base 10, dulcimer base 7, 12 tone, well...12) 

It's my opinion that 'music' is just a series of numbers or 'frequencies' that can be combined into equations or 'melodies/progressions' that our mind finds engaging. I've always been fascinated with research on how early exposure to music affects both math and language skills. 

To me, it is very interesting that many mathematicians have suggested over time that a base 7 number system is more useful than a base 10 for some purposes, but we rely on base 10 simply because that is how many fingers we have. Well if a dulcimer is base 7 (with 7 notes to an octave) and they learn base 10 with counting, this might encourage children to have a more naturally elastic view of maths!