Forum Activity for @dusty

Dulcinina, the board has to be super thin, so that it bounces easily. I am sure the ceiling fan blade is way too thick.

I have two limberjacks that came with boards. Both are rectangular pieces of plywood about two feet in length, 3 or 3-1/2 inches wide, and only about 1/8 of an inch thick.  

Mascis, you got a deal!  Homer Ledford dulcimers are collector items.  That was the case even before he passed away.  Check out this discussion from a few years back on Everything Dulcimer .

Depending on the condition of the dulcimer, I would think a reasonable price would be $500 to $800.  But that's just a guess; others might know better.  It's possible it's worth more than that.

Way to go, Gail!

Hi Tom,

First, please note that there is a group here called Help Me Learn This Song that is specifically devoted to members helping one another learn specific songs.  You might consider joining that group and posting your question there.

However, I can give an initial response here.  If you are only playing the chords,  you don't have to tune to DGD.  In DAd, your G chord is 3-1-0, your C chord is 3-4-6, and your D chord is 0-0-2.  There are other versions of those chords, but that will get you started.

You can also learn the song in DAd in the key of D and put a capo on the third fret.  Play the song as you learned it in D and you will magically be in the key of G.  Check out this demo I did for another FOTMD discussion where I use this very song to demonstrate how to use a capo:

But if you are in DGD, your basic G chord would be 3-2-0, your basic C would be 3-1-1, and your basic D would be 2-1-0 .

I hope that helps. 

Giddykitty, most of us check out the Audio and Video sections on a regular basis to hear what music members are playing. Also, when you post there, we can always find it even years later by going to your homepage and clicking "audio" or "video." If you post your music in discussions it will get buried as new discussions are created.  Here is a screen shot showing you how to get started.  IF you still need help, let me know.

Cool tune, giddykitty.  Are you playing or singing on that track?

If you want your music to be easily found by others, use the Audio feature to link from SoundCloud or the Video feature to link to YouTube or Vimeo.  Most of us regularly check those spaces rather than Forum discussions to see the new music that members are playing. You start from your home page and then click "audio" or "video" from there to see the "+" button to add a file.

Also, remember that there is a whole group dedicated to " Composing and Songwriting " and another one on " Arranging for Dulcimers ." You may want to join those groups and and share the ups and downs of the process.

Skip has it right. Check out Get Tuned for a visual depiction of the tuning of the dulcimer relative to the piano.

A couple of things to remember:

1) The suggestions you've received so far for string gauge are reasonable, but without knowing the VSL (vibrating string length, or the distance between nut and bridge), no one can really know for sure what gauge strings would be appropriate.

2) Your mileage may vary.  Play around a little to find your personal preferences.  I have discovered that I like slightly heavier strings than most, at least for flatpicking.  But I often tune down to C for fingerpicking because I like a little give in the strings, something I definitely don't want when flatpicking.

3) Steel is steel and strings are strings.  Don't worry about brands.  Just figure out what gauge you want for each string and buy single strings, avoiding sets which might not have exactly the right gauge for each string and also cost more per string.  Once you know what gauges you want you can buy in bulk and save even more.

3a) The exception to the statement above is that wound strings come in a few different varieties.   The most common are nickel wound and bronze wound.  Take the time to discover your preferences.  Personally, I like the bronze-wound strings because the tone is more mellow.  The nickel-wound strings have a brighter sound, and that might be more appropriate for some dulcimers than others and for some pairs of ears than others.  Also, if you find you get a lot of squeaking on the wound strings, you can get "squeakless" strings (which aren't actually squeakless, but the squeaking is reduced).  I won't go into the options there, but just know they exist in several different varieties but some people think they produce a more muted tone.

Dana, the longer VSL should not be a problem if you play in a drone style. Consider using this dulcimer (and others with VSLs too long for comfortable chording) specifically for tunes played on the melody string with the drones . . . uh . . . droning.

Lisa, that's a great idea.  The song has a straightforward but uncommon melody.  I did a workshop with Neal Hellman a few years ago and he gave us tab to that tune. My memory is that the crowd wanted a faster tune, so Neal didn't spend too much time on it.  It's a really nice, old tune, though.  And if my memory serves me well, Mark Gilston recently posted a video of his version on dulcimer.

I learned the tune years ago from an album by Trapezoid, the hammered dulcimer group.

Jan, I don't have a specific song to suggest, but I often pick songs from a fiddle or penny whistle website, print out the standard music notation, and then try to tab it out for the dulcimer.  The SMN for those instruments only contains the melody, and often the rendition offered is the simplest possible, so the challenge is in adding some rhythmic complexity and then fitting chords in and around the melody.  Sometimes I just Google "fiddle tunes in D" and see where that takes me.

What a voice for someone of that age!  Amazing indeed.  RIP Fran.

Indeed, Ken provides the essential info here: a beginner's dulcimer is intended to be as inexpensive as possible.  So you will not find self-trimming tuners or ebony overlay or a bevel to rest your arm or a radiused fretboard or any of the other niceties that you may discover you want on your ideal dulcimer. Hopefully the builder took his or her work seriously enough that the intonation and action are good. 

But certainly if you find a beginner dulcimer to continue to serve your needs, there is no reason to have to abandon it for something more expensive.  I know someone out here in the Bay Area who bought the same beginner dulcimer that Ken refers to and two years later bought a more expensive one, only to discover she preferred the beginner dulcimer, so that is what she plays.

My first dulcimer was not technically a beginner dulcimer, but I bought it before I really understood extra frets or fretboard overlay and stuff like that. I still have the dulcimer, but I consider it a loaner and let people borrow it while they decide if they want to get serious and get their own dulcimer.

I am someone who uses a 1+ fret everyday and wouldn't want to go without it. However, I agree fully with those who suggest that historic dulcimers should be left as is.  If you want to add a 1+ fret to a McSpadden that's a few years old, as George did, by all means, go ahead.  But if you have an older dulcimer without any extra frets, you might want to leave it as is and restore it rather than change it.  I don't think Ken's mustache on the Mona Lisa is an accurate image, but perhaps adding some enhanced coloring to the painting would be.  Either one would detract from the original rather than enhance it.

Dana, instead of trying to read and understand, just play and feel.  Play a simple song on your dulcimer. Then put the capo at the third fret and try to play it again. It will work, but you will be in a higher register.  Then, perhaps put the capo at the first fret and try again. It won't work.

In the same way that you need different fingering when you switch tunings, you need different fingerings when you use a capo, with the (partial) exceptions of the third and fourth frets.

Sometimes this stuff makes more sense when you play and get a feel for it rather than try to understand it first. And even if you decide you don't like playing with a capo, you should still have a feel for how it works.

Why would you want to know this?  

reason 1: Dulcimer players almost always play in D, but other folk musicians often play in C, G, and A as well.  If you are in a multi-instrument jam, you will want to know how to play in those keys as well. What if you're in a playing circle and someone calls out "Angelina Baker" in the key of G.  You could try to figure it out in your regular tuning, you could retune to DGD and try to figure it out there, or you could slap on the capo at the third fret and play the song exactly the way you played it before, but you will now be in the key of G, just like everyone else.

reason 2: Do you sing?  Despite what some people say about certain keys rather than others working for their voices, it is the tonal range of the melody that determines whether a tune fits your voice.  I can sing some songs in D.  Other's I can't for the life of me.  But if a song doesn't work for my voice in D, it probably will in G or A.  Truth be told, I have a baritone dulcimer that I tune to G or A, but if I'm not home and want to sing one of those songs, I just put the capo on 3 for G or 4 for A and I can sing the song.  Again, the fingering for the chords is the same that I would have used in D, but the capo puts me in a different key.  If I get a chance I'll put a video together to demonstrate this.

A while back I wrote this piece that I've attached called "Strumming in Various Keys out of a DAd Tuning."  I'm sure it was in response to a question here or one posed by my local dulcimer group, but I can't remember.  Maybe you'll find it helpful.

strumming in various keys out of DAd tuning.pdf - 22KB

You're close, Dana.  Before we get to capos, let me explain something that didn't occur to me until I had been playing a year or two.  

First, we call the open DAd (or DAA, but when we get to chords I'll be referring to DAd) as a D chord.  Technically, it is missing the 3rd, so it can be D major or D minor.  But if 0-0-0 is a D, then 1-1-1 is an E, 2-2-2 is an F#, 3-3-3 is a G, 4-4-4 is an A, 5-5-5 is a B, and so forth.  And again, those "chords" can be major or minor, so a 1-1-1 will be an E in one harmonic context and an Em in another.  The listeners' ears will fill in either the major or minor 3rd. But that principle alone will allow you to play all kinds of chords that you might not have thought possible.

Second, once we see that pattern, we can say that yes, when you put your capo at the first fret your open strings are in an E chord.  And if we were playing a guitar or banjo, that would be enough. We could move the capo to any position and play as though the capo weren't there, making wonderful music in any key.  But the dulcimer's diatonic fretboard means that even if our open strum is a given chord, we may nor may not be able to play a song we want because the frets are in different places.

However, there are two places the capo (mostly) works: the third fret for the key of G and the fourth fret for the key of A.  Play a simple song you know toward the nut.  Now put a capo on the third fret and play it again, using exactly the fingerings you are used to.  You will see that you are now playing the same song, but in a higher register and in a different key (G instead of D).  This will also work if you put the capo at the 4th fret, but you will have to be aware of the 6+ fret, which is now playing the role of the 1+ fret.  It is also fun to put the capo at other frets and see the sounds you get. For example, many songs that are played in a DAC tuning can be played instead with a capo at the first fret (I am not suggesting a capo is preferable here, just pointing out the similarity).

For another discussion here recently I made the following video to demonstrate how I use the capo:

Again, what makes this complicated, Dana, is that on a dulcimer with a diatonic fretboard, a capo not only changes the key but also the mode, so when the capo moves to different frets you cannot necessarily play the same song in  a different key.  You have to find a different song that fits the mode created by the new fret spacing.

As for chords, please refer to that transposition chart I posted in the other discussion.  IN the key of D, we use mainly the D, G, and A chords. When you put the capo at the third fret to play in G, you will be using the G, C, and D chords. However--and this is the beauty of the capo--you don't have to change fingerings. Just pretend you are playing in D, and your chords will magically be transformed (or transposed) to G, C, and D.  That is what my video linked to above tries to demonstrate.

Hi Dana. Basically, I've never taken a video down, not even the first ones I posted which I could play a lot better now. You can follow my progress as a player by watching the videos in order.  I also have a some instructional videos that aren't public, meaning you have to have the specific URL to find them.  Here and there in my postings at FOTMD or at my local group's website , you can find demos of tunes or instructional stuff on one technique or another.  Anyway, I'm glad you enjoy my videos. If you ever have a question about how to play one of the tunes, let me know.

There are so many great luthiers out there.  Too many dulcimers. Too little time and money.

Those ring splints do look kind of cool, Dana, but they also cost.  The tape is cheap. I would stick with it, especially since it has worked for you in the past.

By the way, anytime I am tempted to post about pain in my fretting hand that prevents me (temporarily) from playing, I anticipate a message from Ken extolling the virtues of the noter.

In most cases, Elidh, it will be the string closest to you.  If you played across all the strings, you would want the remaining three strings to be equidistant from one another. But if you are playing noter/drone, then there is no harm in having the melody string a bit further from the other two.

That's wonderful, John!  Thanks so much for sharing that.

I have bought two limberjacks online.  One was from the late Keith Young.  That is obviously not an option anymore.  

The second was a dog limberjack from these folks on Etsy .   It is solidly made.  No concerns about quality at all.   If you just search Etsy you get lots of other possibilities as well.

There are some similarities in both the melodic and harmonic structures of the tunes but there is one big difference: "She Goes Through the Fair" is in 4/4 time whereas "The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry" is in 3/4.

On a related note, my brain always confuses "Blackest Crow" and  "Parting Glass" and they also differ in time signature.  But the melodies are oh so similar.

Like most people, most instruments would be most happy in Hawaii.  

Another issue to think about.

I'm not a builder, so I have no real expertise in this area. But I would assume that the lower the action the less wear on the frets.  Lower action is also easier on the fingers and facilitates faster and easier playing. It might be that you are pushing down hard because your action is high.  Maybe you could look into adjusting the action in addition to get new frets.

Technically, the fingering does change, in the sense that an A in DAd at the nut would be 1-2-4 or the lazy version I use: 101, and an A with a capo at the fourth fret is 0-0-6+, with those open strings really being the fourth fret where the capo is.

However, if you think of your chords as I, IV, and V rather than D, G, and A or A, D, and E, then your fingering doesn't change at all.

I just improvised a video showing how I use a capo in a DAd tuning to play in D, G, and A without changing any fingering.

A big question that we haven't addressed is the style of play. An EAA tuning might be easier for a drone player, but if you play with chords you have to learn a whole new set of fingerings. It would be like learning a new instrument.  The advantage of a capo is that you can use all the chords you've already learned. And the limitation of not playing below the capo is less of a problem if you play across all the strings.

But look at how many options we've explored for playing in A!

What Jan is showing here is that you can play in A even without using a capo.  If you use a capo, though, it  can be even easier. All the 4s in her chords would essentially be open strings requiring no fingering at all.

Additionally, if you think of the Do as residing on the bass string, and you play across the strings rather than staying on that one string, you can go up an octave and a half without moving out of 1st position.

That's true, but if you need it, you can get the note on the middle string.

Kitchen Girl has a minor part and a major part.  And Road to Lisdoonvarna is indeed in a minor key.  But with the capo at 4, the 6+ fret functions as a 1+ fret, giving you the minor third note of the scale.

Definitely true, which is why it is so difficult to play in other keys out of a standard dulcimer tuning.  I generally retune to get other keys.   But the capo can help for G and A.  The very first tune I ever saw played on the dulcimer is Stephen Seifert's Whiskey Before Breakfast video on YouTube.  He plays the song with the capo at the 4th fret, putting him in A major. I regularly play Indian on a Stump and Booth Shot Lincoln in A using the capo at 4.  It may not work for every tune, but it works for a lot of them.

So the easy answer here is indeed to capo at the fourth fret and play everything you know for the key of D. You'll be playing in A.  Folks do that sometimes to match the keys of standard tunes at old timey or bluegrass jams.  Kitchen Girl, for example, is usually played in A, as is Salt Creek. Sally Goodin', Sourwood Mountain, and more.

What I don't get is the motivation here. Are there songs you want to play in A or do you just feel like playing in A for the fun of it?

Gary Gallier has arranged a few tunes in A out of a standard DAd tuning. But those are some pretty fancy tunes with very careful picking.  Since the D note is found in both the D and G chord, that low string sounds OK when you play in D and G, but it will be out-of-place in A, so you have to be really careful and only hit that bass string when you are playing a D chord. When you are playing an A or E chord you cannot hit that open bass string at all.

See Gary's arrangements of Kitchen Girl and Road to Lisdoonvarna from the tablature page of his website .

Personally, when I want to play in A I use a baritone dulcimer tuned AEa.  Simple, huh?

For string gauges, I usually send people to the Strothers' String Gauge Calculator .  You simply enter the vibrating string length (VSL, or the distance between the nut and the bridge) and the note you want to tune to, and the calculator will tell you what gauge to use. It errs on the light side, so feel free to use a size or two larger.

For a dulcimer with a 27" VSL, I would imagine a wound .022 or .024 for the bass, . 012 or .014 for the middle, and .010 or .012 would work for a DAd tuning.  I use slightly heavier strings than that, but you'll have to discover your preference.

The bass string is almost always wound and heavier than the others, but if you are tuned DAAA, then the melody string(s) and the middle strings would indeed be the same.

I don't really know what to say about the material for the bridge and nut.  Hardwoods work well but so does bone, and there are some synthetics that people are using these days as well.  Maybe one of the luthiers can chime in and offer some advice.

@majajog , that's a great story, and probably one that is repeated often, for one of the aspects of the dulcimer that we celebrate is how accessible it is even to those with no musical experience.  Thanks to the McSpadden salesperson who just sat you down and put a dulcimer in your lap!

The cat wagging its tail   is pure Strumelia, for sure!

Bob, I like the dancing pickle   but also the dancing guy silhouette  .

And Lexie, Smiley deserves his own smiley!   Let's pretend that's a hamster chew toy smiley.

Jan has pointed out the sweetest smiley of all  .  It almost makes me tear up.

I thought this might be fun.  Have you noticed the new smileys that Strumelia has made available to us?  Do you have any favorites?

It's  today and I just finished   so I thought I might ask if you guys   certain smileys or if they just make you want to  .

Perhaps this page from Get Tuned will help.  Your low D is the D below middle C and your middle string is tuned to the A below middle C.

Sometimes questions are posed at the wrong time and get covered up by other recent activity.  

I played with a double melody string for a few years, arrogantly assuming that because I also play the mandolin and 12-string guitar I could ignore all those people suggesting I remove the extra melody string. But now I see the error of my ways.  I only play with three strings now, and my favorite dulcimer is m Modern Mountain Dulcimer partly because it only has three strings and somehow seems more streamlined that way.  I find a single melody string just provides a much cleaner sound, and as others have pointed out, a single string is easier for hammer-ons and pull-offs.  Plus,it is impossible to accurately bend a double string.

It can't hurt to build dulcimers with four strings in case people want to play with 4 equidistant strings.

I think Alan touches on a couple of critical issues here.  The first is that nearly all of these instruments need some kind of work on the fretboard to make them playable.  Why is that?  A weissenborn guitar does not have frets.  You don't play it like a guitar. You play it like a dobro, meaning the strings are lifted up above the fretboard and you use a slide--or tone bar--in the left hand to create the notes on the strings.  So when modifying this design for a dulcimer, we have a big problem, don't we?  We have to add frets to be able to fret the strings with a finger or noter, which mandates carefully plotting the frets on the fretboard and also getting the action right so that it will both be comfortable and also have correct intonation.  This makes a hybrid weissenborn/dulcimer different than those banjo/dulcimer or ukulele/dulcimer hybrids since those other instruments also have frets and are therefore build with appropriate action.

I personally love the sound of the dulciborn, but I think that's because I grew up on guitars rather than dulcimers, so I am still attracted to that deep, rich, round tone rather than the traditional high silvery tone of dulcimers.  And people like FOTMD's own Christine Shoemaker demonstrate clearly what this instrument has to offer.  However, I think Gold Tone dropped the ball by launching the sale of these instruments before fixing the action/intonation problem.  I would encourage anyone buying one (even used) to contact Gold Tone and have them fix the instrument rather than paying someone at your local guitar shop.

In terms of organology, we have always been taught that instruments in the zither family are strung across the box, whereas instruments in the lute family are strung along a neck. That is what Matt Berg refers to below.  But the weissenborn itself is already a hybrid between the two because the neck is hollow, and therefore a continuation of the box, allowing the sound to vibrate within. So it is already a hybrid zither/lute.  Removing some of the frets for a diatonic fretboard is a minor change to what is already a mutt of an instrument.

Of course, I use the term "mutt" in an endearing way, as my own little furry guy knows. 

Thanks for the warning, Jan.   I guess we're going to have to be careful to assure the ability to board early.  

I travel Southwest a lot for work and have priority boarding for at least another year.  Southwest has open seating but gives people a boarding number.  I am usually between 25 and 30.  I would encourage everyone to try to stick to a single airline and join their mileage plan.  They just seem to treat you better when they think of you as a repeat customer instead of someone they'll never see again.

And it might not help specifically with getting an instrument in the overhead bin, but if you fly more than a couple of times a year it might be worth it to get a known traveler number from the TSA.  It costs $85 for five years, but you get to go through the TSA pre-check lines and don't have to take off your shoes or your jacket or take out your laptop or your shampoo or any of that stuff.  You fly (hee hee) through an alternate security line and get right to the gate. I also think the airline personnel treat you better when they see that TSA pre-check indication on your boarding pass.

 There have been more than one discussion about the dulciborn here on FOTMD.  The instrument has a deep and rich sound, more similar to guitar than a dulcimer.  But several people bought the instrument and found the action too high to be played comfortably.  Many of those people who have found success with it had to have serious work done on the fretboard to make it playable. If I can find those older conversations I'll edit this post and provide links.

Edit:

Dulciborn