Forum Activity for @dusty

Dana, instead of trying to read and understand, just play and feel.  Play a simple song on your dulcimer. Then put the capo at the third fret and try to play it again. It will work, but you will be in a higher register.  Then, perhaps put the capo at the first fret and try again. It won't work.

In the same way that you need different fingering when you switch tunings, you need different fingerings when you use a capo, with the (partial) exceptions of the third and fourth frets.

Sometimes this stuff makes more sense when you play and get a feel for it rather than try to understand it first. And even if you decide you don't like playing with a capo, you should still have a feel for how it works.

Why would you want to know this?  

reason 1: Dulcimer players almost always play in D, but other folk musicians often play in C, G, and A as well.  If you are in a multi-instrument jam, you will want to know how to play in those keys as well. What if you're in a playing circle and someone calls out "Angelina Baker" in the key of G.  You could try to figure it out in your regular tuning, you could retune to DGD and try to figure it out there, or you could slap on the capo at the third fret and play the song exactly the way you played it before, but you will now be in the key of G, just like everyone else.

reason 2: Do you sing?  Despite what some people say about certain keys rather than others working for their voices, it is the tonal range of the melody that determines whether a tune fits your voice.  I can sing some songs in D.  Other's I can't for the life of me.  But if a song doesn't work for my voice in D, it probably will in G or A.  Truth be told, I have a baritone dulcimer that I tune to G or A, but if I'm not home and want to sing one of those songs, I just put the capo on 3 for G or 4 for A and I can sing the song.  Again, the fingering for the chords is the same that I would have used in D, but the capo puts me in a different key.  If I get a chance I'll put a video together to demonstrate this.

A while back I wrote this piece that I've attached called "Strumming in Various Keys out of a DAd Tuning."  I'm sure it was in response to a question here or one posed by my local dulcimer group, but I can't remember.  Maybe you'll find it helpful.

strumming in various keys out of DAd tuning.pdf - 22KB

You're close, Dana.  Before we get to capos, let me explain something that didn't occur to me until I had been playing a year or two.  

First, we call the open DAd (or DAA, but when we get to chords I'll be referring to DAd) as a D chord.  Technically, it is missing the 3rd, so it can be D major or D minor.  But if 0-0-0 is a D, then 1-1-1 is an E, 2-2-2 is an F#, 3-3-3 is a G, 4-4-4 is an A, 5-5-5 is a B, and so forth.  And again, those "chords" can be major or minor, so a 1-1-1 will be an E in one harmonic context and an Em in another.  The listeners' ears will fill in either the major or minor 3rd. But that principle alone will allow you to play all kinds of chords that you might not have thought possible.

Second, once we see that pattern, we can say that yes, when you put your capo at the first fret your open strings are in an E chord.  And if we were playing a guitar or banjo, that would be enough. We could move the capo to any position and play as though the capo weren't there, making wonderful music in any key.  But the dulcimer's diatonic fretboard means that even if our open strum is a given chord, we may nor may not be able to play a song we want because the frets are in different places.

However, there are two places the capo (mostly) works: the third fret for the key of G and the fourth fret for the key of A.  Play a simple song you know toward the nut.  Now put a capo on the third fret and play it again, using exactly the fingerings you are used to.  You will see that you are now playing the same song, but in a higher register and in a different key (G instead of D).  This will also work if you put the capo at the 4th fret, but you will have to be aware of the 6+ fret, which is now playing the role of the 1+ fret.  It is also fun to put the capo at other frets and see the sounds you get. For example, many songs that are played in a DAC tuning can be played instead with a capo at the first fret (I am not suggesting a capo is preferable here, just pointing out the similarity).

For another discussion here recently I made the following video to demonstrate how I use the capo:

Again, what makes this complicated, Dana, is that on a dulcimer with a diatonic fretboard, a capo not only changes the key but also the mode, so when the capo moves to different frets you cannot necessarily play the same song in  a different key.  You have to find a different song that fits the mode created by the new fret spacing.

As for chords, please refer to that transposition chart I posted in the other discussion.  IN the key of D, we use mainly the D, G, and A chords. When you put the capo at the third fret to play in G, you will be using the G, C, and D chords. However--and this is the beauty of the capo--you don't have to change fingerings. Just pretend you are playing in D, and your chords will magically be transformed (or transposed) to G, C, and D.  That is what my video linked to above tries to demonstrate.

Hi Dana. Basically, I've never taken a video down, not even the first ones I posted which I could play a lot better now. You can follow my progress as a player by watching the videos in order.  I also have a some instructional videos that aren't public, meaning you have to have the specific URL to find them.  Here and there in my postings at FOTMD or at my local group's website , you can find demos of tunes or instructional stuff on one technique or another.  Anyway, I'm glad you enjoy my videos. If you ever have a question about how to play one of the tunes, let me know.

There are so many great luthiers out there.  Too many dulcimers. Too little time and money.

Those ring splints do look kind of cool, Dana, but they also cost.  The tape is cheap. I would stick with it, especially since it has worked for you in the past.

By the way, anytime I am tempted to post about pain in my fretting hand that prevents me (temporarily) from playing, I anticipate a message from Ken extolling the virtues of the noter.

In most cases, Elidh, it will be the string closest to you.  If you played across all the strings, you would want the remaining three strings to be equidistant from one another. But if you are playing noter/drone, then there is no harm in having the melody string a bit further from the other two.

That's wonderful, John!  Thanks so much for sharing that.

I have bought two limberjacks online.  One was from the late Keith Young.  That is obviously not an option anymore.  

The second was a dog limberjack from these folks on Etsy .   It is solidly made.  No concerns about quality at all.   If you just search Etsy you get lots of other possibilities as well.

There are some similarities in both the melodic and harmonic structures of the tunes but there is one big difference: "She Goes Through the Fair" is in 4/4 time whereas "The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry" is in 3/4.

On a related note, my brain always confuses "Blackest Crow" and  "Parting Glass" and they also differ in time signature.  But the melodies are oh so similar.

Like most people, most instruments would be most happy in Hawaii.  

Another issue to think about.

I'm not a builder, so I have no real expertise in this area. But I would assume that the lower the action the less wear on the frets.  Lower action is also easier on the fingers and facilitates faster and easier playing. It might be that you are pushing down hard because your action is high.  Maybe you could look into adjusting the action in addition to get new frets.

Technically, the fingering does change, in the sense that an A in DAd at the nut would be 1-2-4 or the lazy version I use: 101, and an A with a capo at the fourth fret is 0-0-6+, with those open strings really being the fourth fret where the capo is.

However, if you think of your chords as I, IV, and V rather than D, G, and A or A, D, and E, then your fingering doesn't change at all.

I just improvised a video showing how I use a capo in a DAd tuning to play in D, G, and A without changing any fingering.

A big question that we haven't addressed is the style of play. An EAA tuning might be easier for a drone player, but if you play with chords you have to learn a whole new set of fingerings. It would be like learning a new instrument.  The advantage of a capo is that you can use all the chords you've already learned. And the limitation of not playing below the capo is less of a problem if you play across all the strings.

But look at how many options we've explored for playing in A!

What Jan is showing here is that you can play in A even without using a capo.  If you use a capo, though, it  can be even easier. All the 4s in her chords would essentially be open strings requiring no fingering at all.

Additionally, if you think of the Do as residing on the bass string, and you play across the strings rather than staying on that one string, you can go up an octave and a half without moving out of 1st position.

That's true, but if you need it, you can get the note on the middle string.

Kitchen Girl has a minor part and a major part.  And Road to Lisdoonvarna is indeed in a minor key.  But with the capo at 4, the 6+ fret functions as a 1+ fret, giving you the minor third note of the scale.

Definitely true, which is why it is so difficult to play in other keys out of a standard dulcimer tuning.  I generally retune to get other keys.   But the capo can help for G and A.  The very first tune I ever saw played on the dulcimer is Stephen Seifert's Whiskey Before Breakfast video on YouTube.  He plays the song with the capo at the 4th fret, putting him in A major. I regularly play Indian on a Stump and Booth Shot Lincoln in A using the capo at 4.  It may not work for every tune, but it works for a lot of them.

So the easy answer here is indeed to capo at the fourth fret and play everything you know for the key of D. You'll be playing in A.  Folks do that sometimes to match the keys of standard tunes at old timey or bluegrass jams.  Kitchen Girl, for example, is usually played in A, as is Salt Creek. Sally Goodin', Sourwood Mountain, and more.

What I don't get is the motivation here. Are there songs you want to play in A or do you just feel like playing in A for the fun of it?

Gary Gallier has arranged a few tunes in A out of a standard DAd tuning. But those are some pretty fancy tunes with very careful picking.  Since the D note is found in both the D and G chord, that low string sounds OK when you play in D and G, but it will be out-of-place in A, so you have to be really careful and only hit that bass string when you are playing a D chord. When you are playing an A or E chord you cannot hit that open bass string at all.

See Gary's arrangements of Kitchen Girl and Road to Lisdoonvarna from the tablature page of his website .

Personally, when I want to play in A I use a baritone dulcimer tuned AEa.  Simple, huh?

For string gauges, I usually send people to the Strothers' String Gauge Calculator .  You simply enter the vibrating string length (VSL, or the distance between the nut and the bridge) and the note you want to tune to, and the calculator will tell you what gauge to use. It errs on the light side, so feel free to use a size or two larger.

For a dulcimer with a 27" VSL, I would imagine a wound .022 or .024 for the bass, . 012 or .014 for the middle, and .010 or .012 would work for a DAd tuning.  I use slightly heavier strings than that, but you'll have to discover your preference.

The bass string is almost always wound and heavier than the others, but if you are tuned DAAA, then the melody string(s) and the middle strings would indeed be the same.

I don't really know what to say about the material for the bridge and nut.  Hardwoods work well but so does bone, and there are some synthetics that people are using these days as well.  Maybe one of the luthiers can chime in and offer some advice.

@majajog , that's a great story, and probably one that is repeated often, for one of the aspects of the dulcimer that we celebrate is how accessible it is even to those with no musical experience.  Thanks to the McSpadden salesperson who just sat you down and put a dulcimer in your lap!

The cat wagging its tail   is pure Strumelia, for sure!

Bob, I like the dancing pickle   but also the dancing guy silhouette  .

And Lexie, Smiley deserves his own smiley!   Let's pretend that's a hamster chew toy smiley.

Jan has pointed out the sweetest smiley of all  .  It almost makes me tear up.

I thought this might be fun.  Have you noticed the new smileys that Strumelia has made available to us?  Do you have any favorites?

It's  today and I just finished   so I thought I might ask if you guys   certain smileys or if they just make you want to  .

Perhaps this page from Get Tuned will help.  Your low D is the D below middle C and your middle string is tuned to the A below middle C.

Sometimes questions are posed at the wrong time and get covered up by other recent activity.  

I played with a double melody string for a few years, arrogantly assuming that because I also play the mandolin and 12-string guitar I could ignore all those people suggesting I remove the extra melody string. But now I see the error of my ways.  I only play with three strings now, and my favorite dulcimer is m Modern Mountain Dulcimer partly because it only has three strings and somehow seems more streamlined that way.  I find a single melody string just provides a much cleaner sound, and as others have pointed out, a single string is easier for hammer-ons and pull-offs.  Plus,it is impossible to accurately bend a double string.

It can't hurt to build dulcimers with four strings in case people want to play with 4 equidistant strings.

I think Alan touches on a couple of critical issues here.  The first is that nearly all of these instruments need some kind of work on the fretboard to make them playable.  Why is that?  A weissenborn guitar does not have frets.  You don't play it like a guitar. You play it like a dobro, meaning the strings are lifted up above the fretboard and you use a slide--or tone bar--in the left hand to create the notes on the strings.  So when modifying this design for a dulcimer, we have a big problem, don't we?  We have to add frets to be able to fret the strings with a finger or noter, which mandates carefully plotting the frets on the fretboard and also getting the action right so that it will both be comfortable and also have correct intonation.  This makes a hybrid weissenborn/dulcimer different than those banjo/dulcimer or ukulele/dulcimer hybrids since those other instruments also have frets and are therefore build with appropriate action.

I personally love the sound of the dulciborn, but I think that's because I grew up on guitars rather than dulcimers, so I am still attracted to that deep, rich, round tone rather than the traditional high silvery tone of dulcimers.  And people like FOTMD's own Christine Shoemaker demonstrate clearly what this instrument has to offer.  However, I think Gold Tone dropped the ball by launching the sale of these instruments before fixing the action/intonation problem.  I would encourage anyone buying one (even used) to contact Gold Tone and have them fix the instrument rather than paying someone at your local guitar shop.

In terms of organology, we have always been taught that instruments in the zither family are strung across the box, whereas instruments in the lute family are strung along a neck. That is what Matt Berg refers to below.  But the weissenborn itself is already a hybrid between the two because the neck is hollow, and therefore a continuation of the box, allowing the sound to vibrate within. So it is already a hybrid zither/lute.  Removing some of the frets for a diatonic fretboard is a minor change to what is already a mutt of an instrument.

Of course, I use the term "mutt" in an endearing way, as my own little furry guy knows. 

Thanks for the warning, Jan.   I guess we're going to have to be careful to assure the ability to board early.  

I travel Southwest a lot for work and have priority boarding for at least another year.  Southwest has open seating but gives people a boarding number.  I am usually between 25 and 30.  I would encourage everyone to try to stick to a single airline and join their mileage plan.  They just seem to treat you better when they think of you as a repeat customer instead of someone they'll never see again.

And it might not help specifically with getting an instrument in the overhead bin, but if you fly more than a couple of times a year it might be worth it to get a known traveler number from the TSA.  It costs $85 for five years, but you get to go through the TSA pre-check lines and don't have to take off your shoes or your jacket or take out your laptop or your shampoo or any of that stuff.  You fly (hee hee) through an alternate security line and get right to the gate. I also think the airline personnel treat you better when they see that TSA pre-check indication on your boarding pass.

 There have been more than one discussion about the dulciborn here on FOTMD.  The instrument has a deep and rich sound, more similar to guitar than a dulcimer.  But several people bought the instrument and found the action too high to be played comfortably.  Many of those people who have found success with it had to have serious work done on the fretboard to make it playable. If I can find those older conversations I'll edit this post and provide links.

Edit:

Dulciborn

What a great idea for a thread!  I may post multiple times; please excuse my enthusiasm.

I grew up listening to the Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie albums for kids, and my mom would also sing those songs accompanying herself on a ukulele, but that was at home.  In school?

I grew up on the east coast, in Connecticut and then Massachusetts. However, I spent 3rd grade in Santa Barbara, CA, and one song I remember learning in school there was "Tinglayo, Come Little Donkey Come."  I loved the rhythm of the song and the silly lyrics in which "my donkey eats with a knife and fork."  However, we moved back to the east coast after that year and no one asked me to sing that song again.

Decades and a few lifetimes later, I found myself raising a daughter back in California.  And lo and behold, in her Montessori preschool, everyone sang Tingalayo!  I was so excited to hear that song once again. And on those occasions when I brought my guitar or ukulele to that preschool, we all sang that song together.

Here is the Canadian folk/children's music group Sharon, Lois, and Bram, singing the song on one of their albums .  In the interests of wonderfully full disclosure, I must add that the middle name in that trio (Lois Lilienstein, RIP) is the mother of one my best friends from college.  She was an absolute encyclopedia of kids music. If you ever started to sing a song, she would have a ready-made harmony part, or some hand gestures, or a rhythmic chant, or something fun that accompanied the song. She and I did not connect musically until a few years before she passed, but she was an absolute delight.

Ken, is the attached article by Charles Seeger the one you refer to?  Either way, I think a lot of people will find it interesting.

Charles Seeger, The Appalachian Dulcimer (1958).pdf - 2.9MB

Ouch !  Perhaps, when you heal a bit, you can try some fingerpicking. No picks needed.

I hope you heal quick and painlessly.

Hi Jill.  I think the way you phrased your question actually answers it.  The 8-1/2 fret is the octave of the 1-1/2 fret.  So all the reasons you might want a 1-1/2 fret can be used to justify the 8-1/2 fret.  When you are playing up there you might want those notes (minor thirds, 7ths. etc) that the fret offers. On the other hand, as you mention, frets get thinner up there and harder to use.  That issue really depends on the dulcimer's VSL. The shorter the VSL, the thinner the frets.  The other issue for beginners is that is is harder to identify where you are on the fretboard as you move higher up.  My main dulcimer has a 28" VSL and I have no trouble with frets that are too thin until about 13. Everything below that is fully usable. 

My advice would be to keep the two octaves the same.  If you get a 1-1/2 fret, get the 8-1/2 fret.  Otherwise you will have to recalibrate your thinking as you move up the fretboard.  As you get used to the 1-1/2 fret your brain gets used to having those notes available, and then not having them in the upper octave will pose a mental obstacle. TO help identify frets up there you might ask for fret markers placed at the usual spots (frets 3, 5, 7, and 10).

The Capritaurus/Folk Roots dulcimers definitely hold an important place in 20th-century dulcimer history. The dulcimer boom in 1970s Santa Cruz centered around the Ruggs's shop, and many of the players from that period who are still kicking around and making music rave about what a phenomenal player Michael Rugg was and what a fine luthier Howard was.  And the dulcimers were innovative, using bigger boxes and perhaps some more bracing to get more volume.  At some point business was so busy that they split in two, with Michael Rugg taking over Capritaurus and handling the custom market and Howard Rugg & Steve Jackel running Folk Roots geared to mass production.

Folk Roots dulcimers show up on Craig's List fairly often, at least out here in California.  I have one that has been on semi-permanent loan to one of the members of my local dulcimer group (who hasn't show up recently, so maybe she took off with my dulcimer!).  That dulcimer sounds very good, but you have to get it off you lap.  If you strum a chord on your lap and lift it up, you can hear a huge difference in volume and tone.  I point this out because if you check out the sound you will want to make sure you can hear it when it's at its best. 

As I said, Howard Rugg's big innovation in instrument design was mainly using big boxes for a lot of volume.  However, since then (that was 40 years ago!) other luthiers have picked up on those principles and also make really loud dulcimers.  If you have heard a Modern Mountain Dulcimer or a Blue Lion or a Gallier or a Beede dulcimer, I don't think your jaw will drop when you hear an old Capritaurus or Folk Roots.  The industry has caught up to that old design.  However, Howard Rugg is back in business now, having revived Capritaurus  a few years ago and is now making really fine looking instruments one-at-a-time.  I would agree with Rob that you can find Folk Roots dulcimers for $100 so you shouldn't spend more than that.

Howard is a member here, so if you have questions about what a model number means or what kind of wood was involved, he can probably tell you.

I'm glad you guys got to get together, Ken.  Sounds like fun.

Lois, fingerpicks like these would protect your skin. I use metal ones like them for the autoharp. You might not be able to strum in both directions with them, though.

The new skin stuff Ken speaks of is the liquid bandage that you can find in any pharmacy.   It's a good product to keep around anyway, should you ever get a cut or nick on a part of your body that moves a lot.  You can continuously apply more and more as it wears off. My cousin's cello teacher told him to put it on his fingertips when his fingers were worn out from playing so that he could play some more. I use it regularly, but for medical, not musical reasons.

Lois, I assume the pick you are talking about is a flatpick, right?  Have you tried a thumbpick?  Since it fits on your thumb you don't have to hold it very tightly and maybe it wouldn't bother your arthritis as much. Just a thought.

I am thinking of something like this or this .

Thanks for sharing that video, Strumelia. We have known for decades that studying music (especially the piano) leads to greater abilities at abstract reasoning.  After all, when you play music you draw connections between the distance between two notes in tone, on a fretboard or keyboard, and in notation. Not a simple proposition.  And music is not static, so those connections are constantly changing. To be able to understand that is quite a remarkable thing.  Even playing a simple tune like Rhody or Cabbage involves a whole range of different types of cognitive functioning.

It's too bad music has been removed from so many school districts' curricula.  We are obsessively concerned with STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering, and math), but if we just mandated music as part of the curriculum, students would excel in those areas.

I've been passing on links to the video and the Huffington Post article. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks, Patricia, for pointing us to Lapidus/O'Rourke interview.  There's some interesting stuff there both on Aaron's early musical development and also on how he worked with David Beede to get the dulcimer that was perfect for him.

Hi George,

I struggled with this issue for a while until I eventually broke down and bought a Zoom H4N.  A handheld device that runs on batteries, it makes CD-quality recordings and only takes a few minutes of reading the manual (or watching a YouTube video) to figure out how to use its basic functions.

However, that item is kind of pricey.  Luckily there are lots of good mics that you can use with your laptop.  The Blue Snowflake and Blue Snowball are pretty popular. I had the Snowflake at one point. I also bought a Samson Go Mic that works the same way. It's tiny but it makes a great recording, and you don't have to be right in front of the thing to get clear sound.

All of those items can be used with the sound recording software that comes with your laptop or iPad but are much better than the internal microphone.

Also, please note that there is a whole Group here at FOTMD devoted to Home Recording and I'm sure you'll get better advice there.

Thanks for sharing those lovely tunes.  Happy Holidays to you, too.  I am tempted to say more, but I'm likely to get all sentimental, start crying, and then get really embarrassed even though I'm all alone in front of the computer.

Too bad you got sick, Terry.  I had food poisoning a few months ago and was surprised how long I suffered from it.  Your case must have been worse if you ended in the hospital.  I hope you're back on your feet and strumming happily soon.

Tony, I agree in essence with everything you've said, but I think the drum machines are more versatile than you give them credit for.  With those that you control with foot pedals, you can tap the machine on and off, of course, but you can also tap to different beats, tap to pause while you play something out of sequence, and more.  In other words, you are not as "locked in" as you might imagine but can learn to control the machine very well, even spontaneously.

But still, I find it more impressive when a musician can creat the rock groove or the blues groove or the Latin groove or whatever without using electroni gadgets and only playing their instrument.

Diana, the Roman numerals that we use to refer to chords have nothing to do with fret numbers. We use those Roman numerals no matter what instrument you are playing.  Referring to Roman numberals for chords allows us to transpose from one key to another.  In the key of D, D major is I, G major is IV, and A is V.  In the key of C, C major is I, F major is IV, and G major is V.  That is the case whether you are playing the dulcimer or the piano or just talking about music and describing the chord changes of a song.  Again, it has nothing to do with frets. Instead, it has to do with the chord associated with each scale position. If the first note of our scale is D, then the fourth note of the scale is G, and the G major chord will be referred to as IV. If we wanted a minor chord associated with a scale position, it would be written in lower case Roman numerals, as in ii, or iv.

And remember that even in a DAd tuning, we might not play in the key of D. I just arranged a simple version of "WIll Ye No Come Back Again" in the key of G but tuned DAd.  The G chord will be the I and the C the IV and the D the V.  Note how those Roman numerals are determined by the key of the song and not the fret position.

I have to admit that I mostly play in 1-5-8 tunings. But I usually tune DAd or CGc on my standard dulcimer, occasionally going up to EBe. And I tune AEa or GDg on my baritone.  When I play chords i don't think "now I'm moving from G to C." . Rather, assuming I'm on my baritone tuned to G, I think "now I'm moving from I to IV."  That way I don't have to think about how my dulcimer is tuned and don't have to do any fancy transpositions.  I just play the same on any instrument in any 1-5-8 tuning.

There are plenty of chord charts floating around the internet for the more common dulcimer tunings, so you can easily find chords to play when you are tuned DAA. Check out the attached file by Stephen Seifert, for example.

Stephen Seifert DAA chord chart.pdf - 156KB

The one I've heard of most is called a Beat Buddy and I think they make a small verson called the Beat Buddy mini.  Basically the device comes with a bunch of preset rythms that it can play but I think you can also record one of your own. You can also sequence them so, for example, you can have a quick drum turnaround sequenced in between two rhythms, and you click with your foot to move from one to the next.

My feeling about this stuff is mixed. I've seen some great performers make use of these devices, and if that keeps the costs down (by not employing a percussionist) and allows venues to hire solo acts that still want to rock out, I understand.  But I'd rather just hear a musician play.  Don't get me wrong; I dig the groove Butch Ross or Bing Futch tries to lay down, and I'm a frustrated rock and roller myself.  But for the dulcimer?  I'd rather hear the dulcimer alone and see what the player can do without all those devices.

If you go to you tube and type in Beat Buddy demo you'll find some clips of how the device can be used.  I'm sure there are other brands out there, too, but that's the one I remember most.