What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The label "dulcimore" is sometimes used in the manner of a brand or trade name - i.e. "Dulcimore Dan." His instruments are sold as Dulcimores and should be referred to as such.

Some responsibility might be placed on Bill Schilling and his friends. There are some very well educated and skilled people in that bunch. See the Dulci-More webpage https://www.dulcimore.org/

Dulci-More: Folk & Traditional Musicians is a club that started in January 1993, at the First United Methodist Church of Salem. The purposes of the club are to have fun with folk-style music and to share that music with others. The club meets at 7:00 pm on the first Tuesday and Third Tuesday (note: it was the third Wednesday until January, 2000) of each month just off the sanctuary by the Unity Classroom of the First United Methodist Church of Salem, 244 South Broadway, Salem, OH 44460 (see calendar link for summer meeting locations). All levels of acoustic instrumentalists and singers are always welcome at the meetings to jam, to learn, to listen, or to perform. Meetings are generally run as song circles with most songs or tunes chosen from the Dulci-More Public Domain Songbook with everyone joining in, .....

They are MORE than dulcimer players.

As I have said before, I think much of this confusion is probably from SPOKEN language being moved into print.

Bodhran (Irish Drum)

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

"Mountain Mahogany" is virtually unknown to those of us living east of the Rockies.

I have some nice, short, Black Cherry planks seasoning in the barn. I split them from short (roughly 30 inch) segments of a fallen tree with a froe.

Bodhran (Irish Drum)

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Maybe you can finish this today, but why Mountain Mahogany? I should think a limb of Swamp Mahogany would work as well.

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

In addition to differences in spelling, there were differences in pronunciation of the name of our instrument. This almost certainly resulted in differences in how it was written.

Some of our earliest references to the instrument come from estate and sales records in county courthouse archives. I can imagine that one of these might well have resulted from a visit to a deceased's home. Looking over the fireplace, the local says "One pit-chuh of the fahm, one of Unkel Har-rah, an' a dulcimah." The town raised attorney writes "1 large painting - $4, 1 small portrait - 45¢, 1 dulcimer - $1.25" the later based on his knowledge of the King James bible, not the object. The written note is in pencil and later transcribed in ink to the public record book.

I can imagine the use of "dulcimore" as having come from the early 1960s folk culture through some proponent in Brooklyn or Grenwich Villiage calling his pride and joy a "Dul-sim-o-wah."

Oral language variations are what they are.

Do we actually have any evidence for early use of the name "dulcimore" by our pioneer scholars? Jean Ritchie's first work is "The Dulcimer Book." Skimming through Ralph Lee Smith's "The Story of the Dulcimer" (2nd ed.) I don't see the word. I don't have a copy of Allen Smith's "A Catalogue of Pre-Revival Appalachian Dulcimers" at hand, but his preference is clearly shown in the title.

By the  way, I just noticed that the spell-checker for this website flags "dulcimore" as a potential error.

Can anyone out there help me with a tuner question?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

You asked "what type of tuner?" I just looked at your photo, and you tuners are interesting in their own right due to the way the wood is held between metal fingers. I can't find any match on the Elderly Instrument tuners web page, and there are a lot of designs there.
https://www.elderly.com/pages/search-results?offset=456&q=tuners

Friction pegs (non-violin type) are common on banjos and ukuleles. Looking at the following web pages I identified about five basic types. Some use fiber washers while others use plastic. Yours appear to be fiber since some are more compressed than others.

All About Ukulele Friction Tuners - Got A Ukulele Beginners Tips

Banjo Tuner Tips & Tricks

Some really old high quality instruments used tapered tuning pegs, apparently designed to fit in the holes used for violin pegs. A video dealing with these is:
1920’s Martin Ukulele- What to do about the friction pegs?

One of the videos mentions screws bottoming out. That might be your problem if the wood has shrunk over the past 40 years. That could explain the left-right difference.

Can anyone out there help me with a tuner question?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Richard said " If you ever disassemble one all the way take note of the order of the metal and the fiber washers on the shaft."

Perhaps at some time in the past someone took one or more of them apart and incorrectly reassembled them. If one is better than another, you might have a model to check against.

Are two melody strings louder than one?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Sound pressure (SP) is measures in force per unit area, i.e. psi. Loudness is typically measured in decibels (DBA). The relationship between them is logarithmic, but also involves the base (atmospheric) pressure or AP. The SP is very much less than the AP. The math gets very messy.

If we assume that two strings double the sound pressure then I think we are talking about the log of [SP / (SP + AP)] versus the log of [2*SP / (SP + AP)] and you can't hear the difference, although it can be measured with a very, very sensitive sound meter.

I intentionally tune my double melody strings to slightly different frequencies to produce beat, not loudness. In the organ world the effect is called "vox celeste" or "vox humana."

Go with your ears, that's what music is about. 

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Looking at the picture of the head which shows the pegs, I would say they were installed poorly and the strings are incorrectly installed, both in terms of the sloppy winding and on the wrong pegs.They also appear to be unevenly spaced.

Some of the holes are too big, as evidenced by the amount of peg extending through the hole and some may be too small, The pegs also look too short to me. They may be drilled in the wrong place.

Some of the string leads are incorrect. They should pull the peg into the hole, not out of it.

See the photos toward the end of 

The Best Way to Change Violin Strings [9 Simple Steps]

https://violinspiration.com/how-to-change-violin-strings/

I think a complete refit of the pegs is in order, perhaps substituting larger viola pegs for violin pegs.

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Walmart has " Fas-n-Tite Brass (plated) Linoleum Nails (5/8" x #16) - 0.75 oz., Steel, $1.58 "

Those and a toothpick in the old hole might be a good choice.

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Why remove the nail head? The nail head makes it easier to hold a string loop on. In addition, if you simply cut the nail head off with pliers you will have a sharp end. Half an inch in length should be enough if in a hole of the right size.

My main suggestion is Look at the other string anchors and try to match them. They might be screws, nails with heads, nails without heads, brass pins, or was it wood?

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The fret markings clearly are a major feature of the claims. He states:

"In a stringed instrument, the combination, with the sounding board or base, of the separate parallel longitudinal bridge-bars, each having a group of four strings, a line of line of frets, and note-scales , and having the keys for the strings at one end of each bridge-bar set at the opposite ends of the sounding-board, substantially as herein set forth."

The drawing almost certainly has shape notes because he says:

"The note-scales may be made in characters such as are found in the “Sacred Harp” and in the “Temple Harp,” or indicated by do, re, mi, &c."

Actually, on close reading, it looks like it may only apply to the combination of the features, not to any on them singularly. Not to worry, it expired long ago. .

There are many patents for specific instrument designs which are more-or-less actually sort of trademarks. This is particularly true on "anyone-can-play-this" instruments.

I find the patent interesting because it reinforces our knowledge of many features as being broadly* known by 1880.

• Four string designs
• Rectangular sound boxes
• Fret labels
• Zither/piano pin tuners
• Wire strings

*The patentee resided in the flat Mid-Georgia country, not in the hills of KY-NC-WV-VA

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ergonomics and Wrist Strain

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

As to seating position, I'm only about 5' 6" tall, with short legs. My lap is horizontal when I sit in a 1950s vintage wooden folding chair, but on more modern chairs for table use my lap slopes down in the wrong direction. I carry a piece of hard urethane packing foam about 3" thick and 12" square to use as a foot rest. (That beats trying to find and carry a Sears catalog or city phone book, or hauling my own chair around.) My elbows are above the dulcimer in my lap and my forearms about horizontal.

Some short folks put their heels on the front cross bar of steel chairs and achieve about the same effect.

Time spent on working out your seating is a good long-term investment.

Ergonomics and Wrist Strain

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

Given the wide variety of playing styles used on the dulcimer, I don't think there is any "proper form."

Noter-drone playing puts a very different stress on the wrist than any form of chording. Some people I have met who have hand issues find it the only way they can play. It is part of the reason I play almost exclusively in that style. I use a noter which is about 3/8 inch in diameter and about 6 inches long with my forefinger on top and the heal on the noter at my wrist.

You appear in your photo to be playing chords, so that probably won't helpyou at the present, but of your problem becomes severe, consider the noter-drone tradition before giving up.

String suggestions

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

One basic point in looking for strings. Until about 10 or 15 years ago, there were no "dulcimer strings." Ball end strings were part of the guitar string rack while loop end strings were banjo strings. Either will be more than long enough.

Just avoid violin, mandolin, and ukulele strings or you will end up with something too short.

I hypothesize that many of the early builders bought banjo strings from mail order vendors like Sears. Some would have purchased rolls of piano wire and put their own loops on it, but a roll of piano wire is pretty long and might be a lifetime supply.

Robert N. Lackey, rest in peace

OFF TOPIC discussions

Norma and I attended a good many sessions by or with Bob in the Morgantown-Fairmont-Fort New Salem, WV over the past eight or ten years. He was always good company.

We now remember not seeing him at dulcimer events over the past year or so.

We will miss him.

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ken said:
....  There probably were no Euro-trained luthiers among the Moravians, the builders to follow were trying to replicate instruments that had come from the old country....

Nor among the Germans, Scots, Irish, etc. but it is almost certain that simple fiddles were being made and played. As I have noted before, there is still a culture of "cigar box" instrument makers, many of whom are now making instruments with electric pickups. I suspect that wood from shipping boxes for various imports was used because it was available in usable "thinnesses."

I can remember 75 years ago when "orange crates" were made of rather high quality stock about 1/4 inch thick. Cub Scout manuals provided plans for making stuff from such readily available recyclables."

Ken also said "prior to that there were wood/bone/ivory inlaid frets or the tied gut frets of Lutes.  Mushroom frets weren't invented until the mid 1800s in Europe."

I can imagine using the wood from small boxes set in slots cut with a cross-cut or furniture maker's back saw as frets. I seem to recall that some match boxes had wood parts when I was a child, and you can produce small pieces of thin wood with a simple plane.

It's easy to envision hill folks as "having nothing," but the reality is that most communities had craftsmen capable of making windows and doors and their frames, country furniture, etc. as well as the occasional gift of extremely high quality. There would have been good quality saws, planes, knives, and chisels, in most of the smallest villages and on many farms.

Most hill folks went to the county, or township, seat to pay taxes, serve on juries, consult real estate lawyers, and so on. The men-folks served in the army. They didn't live in complete isolation and saw most of the "high tech" of the day.

While I have been part of a university community I have had neighbors who lived with more-or-less 1899 resources, so I have some first hand knowledge.

And we know that many of the earliest dulcimer vendors lived in towns.

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

It seems to me that the inquiry of "what the mountain dulcimer's role was in the area it came from a hundred odd years ago" is attaching undo importance to the instrument. It is a FOLK INSTRUMENT, something which can be made at home and used to create music.

We might ask the same question about the bones, spoons, shipping crate drums, cigar box fiddles, the washtub base, the monkey stick/Stumph Fiddle, cigar box uke/guitar, and many other musical devices. All of these have enthusiastic contemporary users and builders with forums, etc. and are used in public performances. I think all of them are also commercially produced and sold to a widespread market.

As a parallel to the current interest in the lap dulcimer, look at the cajón (Ca-HOne). It is a wooden box on which you sit and pound. In its modern version it is a Peruvian folk instrument, and you can easily pay $400 for a top grade one through Walmart's on-line shopping. You can find YouTube instruction on how to play it, ensembles, and get lessons at many music schools.

Enjoy your dulcimer, I enjoy my assortment along with other instruments. By all means, study its history. But we shouldn't make it into something of great world-wide importance.

6 String Dulcimer Question

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Most of my playing is on a small 6-string dulcimer which I adapted from a Korean instrument probably made in the 1960s.

I play noter-drone in Daa, but I use octave pairs on the middle and bass - Dd-Aa-aa. I use an 0.030W on the middle A. It probably is 0.012, 0.012, 0.014, 0.030, 0.012 and 0.028W.

I like it, and it is soft enough that no one in our group notices my mistakes, or at least is polite enough not to mention them.

Accompaniment

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

The dulcimer was devised for playing for one's own enjoyment, or for a few family members, not an "audience." This would probably have been in a room in a small home after the player's work was done in winter, or on a porch in the summer. Other family members often would have been reading, sewing, washing dishes, etc. 

How to train my ear

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I should have written

"Perfect pitch" is often considered a curse. I had a friend with perfect pitch who, 60 years ago, found that almost all the pianos in a good showroom were off key, and she couldn't play most of them beause they hurt her ears.

How to train my ear

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

You should be able to distinguish between a whole step and a half step in American/European music. To "learn" absolute pitch shouldn't be a goal. (Some Asian and African music doesn't use European intervals based on a logarithmic scales.) Good musicians play intervals, unless of course they are "bending" a note artistically.

Digital tuners with absolute reference to frequency haven't been around very long. We didn't have precise standards in the not-so-different past. We had tuning forks and reed pitch pipes, both of which produce tones which will vary minutely with temperature. To mention only two countries, the USA and Austria (home of Mozart, Beethoven, etc.) used different pitches for the A to which they tuned.

A band from the 1920-1950 period would have tuned to the piano, if they used one, which would have been relatively tuned if it was "in tune."

A symphony orchestra tuned to whatever A the oboe played at the beginning of the concert. The oboeist might or might not have used a fork or pipe as a reference.

As the saying goes, "this ain't rocket science, it's art." "Perfect pitch" is often considered a curse. I had a friend who, 60 years ago, found that all the pianos in a good showroom were out of tune, and she couldn't play any of them.

How to train my ear

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'm with Ken, to a large extent. Few of us "train" our ears, but "our ears learn."

We learn, I think, by having music in two forms at the same time. Playing or singing while hearing others in a group. Plying or singing while reading music as sheet music or TABs. Singing along with a record.

A set of instructions in any form may help because it is structured so that your experience is expanded, not because it is just repeated.

Fiddle

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I've learned a lot by buying "$100 dollar instruments" on sale at $30 or so on the Shop Goodwill website and working on them.

You can't buy much of a lesson for $30.

I haven't had to try learning sound post setting yet. I don't bid on ones which are shown with the bridge out. I bought a post setting tool on eBay for less than $10.

Glad your experiment ended productively.

Fiddle

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

The general advice is NEVER TAKE ALL THE STRINGS OFF A FIDDLE AT THE SAME TIME. (Unless you are a luthier doing a major repair.)

String tension holds the sound post in place. You place the sound post and, carefully position it, with all strings loose. Tightening strings without a soundpost can break the face.

Before they were installed, the pegs were probably all the same. During set-up or a service, individual holes may have have been reamed and pegs smoothed with a sort-of pencil sharpener to improve fit and smooth turning.

I'd suggest looking at http://www.makingtheviolin.com/ before fiddling with fiddles. There are other useful violin sites, of course.

Actually "one string at a time" is good general advice when replacing strings on any string instrument, including dulcimers.

Best instruction material?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

@shannmilan... My path won't work for you.

We have a local lap dulcimer group which meets twice a week in two different configurations, one for beginners in a classroom setting, one for sort'a playing as a group. My wife has attended both for about five years, I've been taking an active part for about two.

I don't practice, so my skills aren't that good, but I have acquired a LOT of knowledge, as well as becoming a technician.

I also studied violin as a kid, sung in choruses, and am teaching myself viola, arranging music for a crank organ and trying to learn to practice.

As far as "courses" goes, what courses are available to you? Unless you live near me, I can't make a suggestion, except possibly for on-line resources.

The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

How serious can you get with a recorder? See the following:

J.S. Bach Toccata & Fuge d-Moll BWV 565 arr. for recorder orchestra
Berliner Blockflöten Orch

Dietrich Schnabel - Symphony 1, mvmt 4

Three Irish traditional - Quinta Essentia Recorder Quartet & Paul Leenhouts I Quarteto Flauta Doce
Quinta Essentia Quarteto

The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I suspect that the recorder over tin whistle choice is often snob-ism. The American Recorder Society says

"Rather than a mere toy, an educational aid, or a simple musical instrument suitable only for amateurs, the recorder is a vehicle for serious musical expression demanding years of dedicated study. It has a long and interesting history and can lay claim to an extensive and highly varied repertoire spanning eight centuries. It has always enjoyed a particularly rich representation in literature, drama, painting and sculpture."
https://americanrecorder.org/about_the_recorder.php

Similarly, four year olds should be given lessons on the violin or piano, not the dulcimer.

IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING FUN OR ENJOYING MUSIC! (Or learning to count.)

As a result, where I live you can buy a recorder in a "dollar store" for $1.25 whereas you have to go to a music store to buy a tin whistle for $9.95.

Dulcimer Players News demise

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Keeping such things alive is simple. All you have to do is find a individual willing to pledge say $30,000 a year to under-right operating losses. That would keep the Editor from having to do so from personal resources.

For that you could hire a young person to do so, and maybe find a solution to bringing new folks into our fold.

For better or worse, people under 35 seem expect to be paid as Executive Directors of things us "over 70s" did as volunteers.

Converting a 4 String Dulcimer to a 3 String

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

There is no standard for string spacing. In fact there are few "standards" for anything regarding dulcimers.

In making simple capos I have found that fretboards vary in width from about 1 3/8 inch to maybe 1 3/4 inch. Usually the outer strings are about 1/4 inch from each side.

I would suggest that if you are fingering you might want 1/2 inch between the strings. For noter-drone playing, you might prefer to have the melody closer to the edge.

The simple answer is just pick a slot and you will get used to the spacing as you play.

I just bought a Hondo II dulcimer on ShopGoodWill. I bought it primarily to study the stick/fretboard, which has a unusual, if not unique, head. it also has no strum hollow.

There is a good set of photos of a similar instrument at

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-hondo-ii-string-mountain-1837332089

The VSL is 26 1/2 inches with LOA of about 34 1/2 inches. No 6+ fret.

It, and the case are in like-new condition. It came with a collection of Vega banjo strings.

It had 8 picks, including the one inside the body, of a type I have never seen before. They are marked Jim Dunlop on one side and USA Nylon .38 MM on the other. They are so thin you can read type through them!

I could see in the on-line photos that the bridge and nut had been reversed so the the doubled strings were on what is normally the bass side. When I placed my winning bid I thought it was for left handed playing, but when I looked again at the photos of my prize, I saw that the two were different diameters. It is set up with an octave string paired with the bass.

The strings were all loose when it arrived, so I don't know how it was intended to be tuned. I have started with Cc-g-g. I'll probably move it up to Dd-a-a first, then put a larger string on the middle to make it Dd-A-a.

It's certainly worth the $45 with shipping which I paid as an educational experience!

updated by @wally-venable: 05/07/23 09:48:59PM

Liquid Electrical Tape

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I have used "Liquid Electrical Tape" on a number of things to improve holding them or creating non-slip surfaces. The attached .PDF describes how I have used in to make picks harder to loose.

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ooops, I Googled CGB, but got CBG. Maybe it is a tuning for a lower voice, aeolian mode.

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I would have guessed that it was a tuning, one full step down from DAC, but I Googled it.

Turns out is is "Cigar Box Dulcimer." that is an instrument with a rectangular box body and a neck. It is not a dulcimer, by our standards. And the body is probably not a real cigar box.

Recommendations for best software for splitting PDFs?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

In Windows, with many .PDF files you can Right-Click on a page, turning it blue. Then select Copy Image. You then go to your favorite graphics program and use Paste As New Image, then save the song as a page image. This assumes that the pages are, in fact, images, it won't work with straight text.

Drag-&-Drop would probably work, too, but I haven't tried it. You might Drag-&Drop into a Word file and save as .PDF, but I haven't tried that either.

The technique probably also works in other operating systems.

I'm with John.

I'd get tuners which match the originals (more or less). Easy to remove and install.

If you don't have an electronic tuner, get one. They can save a lot of strings if you aren't skilled at tuning, and of course the tuner can be moved to your shorter VSL instrument. My preference is a KORG tuner with a clip-on guitar pickup, but I have also been happy with the cheap ($4 from China) JOYO type

Best instruction material?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

The lap dulcimer is a very simple musical instrument, but it is a musical instrument. I believe that there are a few people who do lack the requisite skills.

If you can't tell Go Tell Aunt Rhodie from Frere Jaques you will have challenges. Some sense of melody is required.

There are also folks with no real sense of rhythm - folks who will bring a drum to a jam session and just bang on it, missing the beat. Dulcimer tunes include a wide variety of note lengths (quarter, half, eighth, etc.) In our local group the comment, "Well, at least we all finished at the same time," is sometimes good for a laugh.

As a dulcimer player, I am a beginner, but I have been attending our local dulcimer group sessions for several years, sometimes playing ukulele or U-Bass. I've been watching how others learn and how and why others are challenged.

If you didn't have trouble in primary school music, and/or can comfortably sing along with hymns or patriotic songs at gatherings you should be OK.

Keep your initial sessions short. Few beginners can really stand a full-hour lesson. If you find yourself saying "I've got to get this right," you're pushing too hard. Learning curves are only steep if you try going too fast.

Best instruction material?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

There are a lot of "details" which are easily skipped over when learning on your own. Many of these have to do with getting comfortable. Many of them are treated trivially in books and videos and easily missed.

For me, and many others, chair height is an issue. I'm short, and modern chairs are made too high to be good. I use a 2 inch foam foot block to raise my knees so the dulcimer doesn't slide away. That beats toting a 1950s vintage chair which does fit me. Some folks use straps, mats, etc. to reduce slipping, but proper height  and angle can provide a serious advantage.

Almost everyone uses a chair without arms. When a gathering is being set up, this is usually a discussion topic.

Where are you going to put your book while playing? Traditional music stands are great if you are playing most orchestral instruments, but put the music too high if you are looking at both the paper and your frets. You probably want a table about 25 (not 30) inches high.

Since you will not be learning these things in a group, when you watch videos, study how the performers set up.

There is no one right way for everyone. 

Best instruction material?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

How well you can learn on your own depends on many factors.

What is your previous musical experience? Have you taken violin lessons or learned to play some other instrument by ear? Can you sing folk songs? How is your sense of rhythm? Any such experience can either help or hinder your learning.

As a starting point, you should be trying simple songs which you already know, and work from clearly printed TABS for those pieces.

Best instruction material?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

I haven't found anything better than The Dulcimer Book. Ritchie's book will be a little challenging for some because of her suggestions on learning to tune. Some will be a bit put off by her early introduction of alternate tunings.

If possible, find a local group and learn "their way," at least that way you  you can ask questions and get demonstrations.

A lot of the YouTube stuff is posted by folks trying to sell you lessons.