Differences between two dulcimers

Wally Venable
Wally Venable
@wally-venable
one month ago
87 posts

I am currently the custodian of two "cardboard dulcimers" which have been used in classes and as loaners for about 20 years. They still play well, although their cases are plastic bags. I used them two weeks ago to demonstrate the difference between C-G-G and D-A-A tuning on identical instruments.

I will emphasize that only the bodies are corrugated cardboard. The sticks are 1x2 lumber, and they have guitar fretwire frets, and regular tuners and strings.

A huge part of the true cost of making "a real dulcimer" is in the sanding-varnishing-sanding-varnishing of the wood body, and this has no effect on the sound.

NateBuildsToys
NateBuildsToys
@nate
one month ago
317 posts

RevDave:

Ken Hulme:

RevDave -- I suggest investing $50 or so in a carboard dulcimer.  The sound is good, the frets are dead on and intonation can be adjusted if needs be.  They're a greater learner instrument, and can be 'upograded' by making a simple wooden box...  The picture shows a cardboard dulcimer fretboard transferred to a Virginia-style elliptical body that a student made ...

 

cardboard? Really! These things exist? I once made a nominally working “organ pipe” from a sheet of notebook paper, but a cardboard dulcimer…

I assume made from corrugated boxlike material? How do they hold up?

 
It's often thick sheets of really stiff paperboard, but some are actual corrugated cardboard. Because the board is very stiff and lightweight, the instruments are shockingly loud and punchy, especially for their price. The box itself will not be durable if you're not careful, but the fingerboard will be good quality, and as Ken mentioned you can simply remove the fingerboard and glue it onto a different box later.
I've seen them in kits that you assemble yourself for as little as 45$, but for under 100, you can find some that look and sound pretty nice.

RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

Ken Hulme:

RevDave -- I suggest investing $50 or so in a carboard dulcimer.  The sound is good, the frets are dead on and intonation can be adjusted if needs be.  They're a greater learner instrument, and can be 'upograded' by making a simple wooden box...  The picture shows a cardboard dulcimer fretboard transferred to a Virginia-style elliptical body that a student made ...

 

cardboard? Really! These things exist? I once made a nominally working “organ pipe” from a sheet of notebook paper, but a cardboard dulcimer…

I assume made from corrugated boxlike material? How do they hold up?

Ken Hulme
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
one month ago
2,159 posts

RevDave -- I suggest investing $50 or so in a carboard dulcimer.  The sound is good, the frets are dead on and intonation can be adjusted if needs be.  They're a greater learner instrument, and can be 'upograded' by making a simple wooden box...  The picture shows a cardboard dulcimer fretboard transferred to a Virginia-style elliptical body that a student made ...

Simple Virginia.JPG
Simple Virginia.JPG  •  39KB

RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

Ken Hulme:

RevDave:  ALL of the issues you have with your no-name kit dulcimer are pretty easily fixed -- by you-- with a  little help from your friends here, for less than $20 and a little time. PM me if you'd like some help fixing it up...

The fact that the instrument is plywood means absolutely nothing -- there are wonderful sounding plywood dulcimers, cardboard dulcimers, even dulcimers made from Legos(tm) and plexiglass!  

 

Thanks Ken. I appreciate your offer and your wisdom, but the dulcimer isn’t mine to repair. That’s partly what’s so frustrating. I have to return it as-is. 

Ken Hulme
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
one month ago
2,159 posts

RevDave:  ALL of the issues you have with your no-name kit dulcimer are pretty easily fixed -- by you-- with a  little help from your friends here, for less than $20 and a little time. PM me if you'd like some help fixing it up...

The fact that the instrument is plywood means absolutely nothing -- there are wonderful sounding plywood dulcimers, cardboard dulcimers, even dulcimers made from Legos(tm) and plexiglass!  

RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

NateBuildsToys:

It seems to me that since both options are good quality, and you cant actually play or hear either one before buying, it might be best to pick whichever one you like better aesthetically. If you like to look at it, youll like to have it out, and you'll want to play it more often 😁 

 

Thats certainly true of my guitar. They seem to be similar quality…

RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

Silverstrings:

RevDave:

Silverstrings:

I own a #58 Deluxe Black Mountain dulcimer with a redwood top and cherry sides and back. It is a sweet dulcimer. I found the dulcimer that you are thinking about buying. If you add the case, it is around $425.00 before shipping. I hope it is okay that I am listing the price on this forum. It is more of a beginner dulcimer. Mine stays in tune and plays clearly up and down the fretboard. I have heard of Berg dulcimers but have never played one.

All of that being stated, have you thought about a 26” McSpadden dulcimer? They make them with redwood soundboards and black walnut. I own one and it produces a wonderful warm sound. They start at $545.00 and include a nice backpack case. For another $60.00, you can have a micarta fretboard with mother of pearl dots. If you click on my profile, you will see a photo of three dulcimers. The first dulcimer is a 26” McSpadden redwood/walnut, the second one is the Black Mountain, and the third is a 26” McSpadden all walnut dulcimer. My all walnut one is actually the one I play the most. For just a little more, you can own a dulcimer that will serve your playing for many years.

Are you a beginner player?

 

Yes, beginner with dulcimer, but an accomplished guitar player and have played bass professionally. I ought to give McSpadden another look. I used to live not too far from Mountain View.  

 

I understand. I played professionally as a singer and rhythm guitar player for 15 years. You will be surprised how quickly you catch on to playing the mountain dulcimer. A more expensive dulcimer that I fingerpick on is a Blue Lion Acoustic Jam dulcimer. It is magical sounding. 

 

I have access to an old no-name kit dulcimer, built by a non-luthier acquaintance of mine. I’ve been dinking around on that, learning scales, tunings, chords, etc., but it’s fairly frustrating, because the action is way too high, it’s not intonated properly, the fingerboard isn’t smooth, and the frets are poorly finished. Plus it’s plywood. I bet either of the other two will be a vast improvement. I’m having difficulty finding videos of the black mountain so I can hear it. I’d really like to have a McSpadden, but can’t swing the extra $$$ right now… $200 more than I have at my disposal. Maybe someday…

NateBuildsToys
NateBuildsToys
@nate
one month ago
317 posts

It seems to me that since both options are good quality, and you cant actually play or hear either one before buying, it might be best to pick whichever one you like better aesthetically. If you like to look at it, youll like to have it out, and you'll want to play it more often 😁 

Silverstrings
Silverstrings
@silverstrings
one month ago
57 posts

RevDave:

Silverstrings:

I own a #58 Deluxe Black Mountain dulcimer with a redwood top and cherry sides and back. It is a sweet dulcimer. I found the dulcimer that you are thinking about buying. If you add the case, it is around $425.00 before shipping. I hope it is okay that I am listing the price on this forum. It is more of a beginner dulcimer. Mine stays in tune and plays clearly up and down the fretboard. I have heard of Berg dulcimers but have never played one.

All of that being stated, have you thought about a 26” McSpadden dulcimer? They make them with redwood soundboards and black walnut. I own one and it produces a wonderful warm sound. They start at $545.00 and include a nice backpack case. For another $60.00, you can have a micarta fretboard with mother of pearl dots. If you click on my profile, you will see a photo of three dulcimers. The first dulcimer is a 26” McSpadden redwood/walnut, the second one is the Black Mountain, and the third is a 26” McSpadden all walnut dulcimer. My all walnut one is actually the one I play the most. For just a little more, you can own a dulcimer that will serve your playing for many years.

Are you a beginner player?

 

Yes, beginner with dulcimer, but an accomplished guitar player and have played bass professionally. I ought to give McSpadden another look. I used to live not too far from Mountain View.  

 

I understand. I played professionally as a singer and rhythm guitar player for 15 years. You will be surprised how quickly you catch on to playing the mountain dulcimer. A more expensive dulcimer that I fingerpick on is a Blue Lion Acoustic Jam dulcimer. It is magical sounding. 


updated by @silverstrings: 10/20/24 03:59:16PM
RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

Silverstrings:

I own a #58 Deluxe Black Mountain dulcimer with a redwood top and cherry sides and back. It is a sweet dulcimer. I found the dulcimer that you are thinking about buying. If you add the case, it is around $425.00 before shipping. I hope it is okay that I am listing the price on this forum. It is more of a beginner dulcimer. Mine stays in tune and plays clearly up and down the fretboard. I have heard of Berg dulcimers but have never played one.

All of that being stated, have you thought about a 26” McSpadden dulcimer? They make them with redwood soundboards and black walnut. I own one and it produces a wonderful warm sound. They start at $545.00 and include a nice backpack case. For another $60.00, you can have a micarta fretboard with mother of pearl dots. If you click on my profile, you will see a photo of three dulcimers. The first dulcimer is a 26” McSpadden redwood/walnut, the second one is the Black Mountain, and the third is a 26” McSpadden all walnut dulcimer. My all walnut one is actually the one I play the most. For just a little more, you can own a dulcimer that will serve your playing for many years.

Are you a beginner player?

 

Yes, beginner with dulcimer, but an accomplished guitar player and have played bass professionally. I ought to give McSpadden another look. I used to live not too far from Mountain View.  

RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

Ken Hulme:

Essential differences?   Apple & Oranges!!!  EVERYTHING:   Internal volume of the body, internal bracing dimensions and locations, plank thicknesses, dimensions of the fretboard, mass of the fretboard (hollow or solid), dimensions of the soundholes, location of the soundholes relative to the bouts,  where the nut and bridge set relative to the end blocks, how much length of string between the bridge and the sttring break to the pins, style and material of nut & bridge construction, just for starters. 

Wood choices actually play very little part in the sound of the dulcimer compared to the hundred or more other factors.  External shape plays NO part in the sound of the instrument.  

Choose an instrument first by its sound, second by its look, third by its price, fourth by the craftsmanship, fifth by reputation of the builder.

 

Thanks, Ken. That’s solid advice. Unfortunately, in this case, I have only a few sound bites from videos to rely upon. I wish it were otherwise!

RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

Wally Venable:

Have you actually played both of them? If you are buying a musical instrument, the sound and the way it fits your playing should be the deciding factor.

 

Unfortunately, I’m not in a position to hear any of them. I really don’t like to buy sight unseen online; I prefer to see, handle, and listen, but I just don’t have that opportunity in this case.  I thought someone might be able to give me some details of their experiences with these models.

Silverstrings
Silverstrings
@silverstrings
one month ago
57 posts

I own a #58 Deluxe Black Mountain dulcimer with a redwood top and cherry sides and back. It is a sweet dulcimer. I found the dulcimer that you are thinking about buying. If you add the case, it is around $425.00 before shipping. I hope it is okay that I am listing the price on this forum. It is more of a beginner dulcimer. Mine stays in tune and plays clearly up and down the fretboard. I have heard of Berg dulcimers but have never played one.

All of that being stated, have you thought about a 26” McSpadden dulcimer? They make them with redwood soundboards and black walnut. I own one and it produces a wonderful warm sound. They start at $545.00 and include a nice backpack case. For another $60.00, you can have a micarta fretboard with mother of pearl dots. If you click on my profile, you will see a photo of three dulcimers. The first dulcimer is a 26” McSpadden redwood/walnut, the second one is the Black Mountain, and the third is a 26” McSpadden all walnut dulcimer. My all walnut one is actually the one I play the most. For just a little more, you can own a dulcimer that will serve your playing for many years.

Are you a beginner player?


updated by @silverstrings: 10/20/24 10:29:37AM
Ken Hulme
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
one month ago
2,159 posts

Essential differences?   Apple & Oranges!!!  EVERYTHING:   Internal volume of the body, internal bracing dimensions and locations, plank thicknesses, dimensions of the fretboard, mass of the fretboard (hollow or solid), dimensions of the soundholes, location of the soundholes relative to the bouts,  where the nut and bridge set relative to the end blocks, how much length of string between the bridge and the sttring break to the pins, style and material of nut & bridge construction, just for starters. 

Wood choices actually play very little part in the sound of the dulcimer compared to the hundred or more other factors.  External shape plays NO part in the sound of the instrument.  

Choose an instrument first by its sound, second by its look, third by its price, fourth by the craftsmanship, fifth by reputation of the builder.

Wally Venable
Wally Venable
@wally-venable
one month ago
87 posts

Have you actually played both of them? If you are buying a musical instrument, the sound and the way it fits your playing should be the deciding factor.

RevDave
RevDave
@revdave
one month ago
19 posts

I’m looking at one of two different instruments. A Bill Berg #2292 short scale (all walnut), and a Black Mountain #56 in mahogany with an old growth redwood top. They’re both essentially the same price. For those experienced with both Bill and Dave, what are essential differences between these two that might help me to make a decision? I know real mahogany is hard to come by, and old growth redwood is impossible. Is there any other remarkable difference between builders and build style that anyone can point to? Thanks.