Forum Activity for @dusty

The main purpose of a radiused fretboard is to facilitate barring across all the strings with a single finger. Aaron O'Rourke uses his pinky for that purpose.  Stephen Seifert uses his ring finger.  Barring with a single finger instead of using three fingers allows more fingers to fret strings above the barre, enabling the playing of more notes while not losing chord tones. To my knowledge, the first luthier to build a dulcimer with a radiused fretboard was David Beede when he designed a dulcimer customized to Aaron's specifications.

A second reason a radiused fretboard might be useful is in playing single-note runs on the middle string.  It is easy enough to angle a flatpick upwards to play single notes only on the melody string or downwards to do so on the bass string without hitting the other strings.  But the middle string is more challenging.  A radiused fretboard essentially raises that middle string up a bit relative to the melody and bass strings, making it easier to play by itself.

I have not opted for a radiused fretboard because I rarely barre with a single finger and also because I'm afraid that I would get used to it and never want to play all my dulcimers with flat fretboards.  But this discussion would benefit from comments by someone who uses a radiused fretboard rather than all of us who don't.

Pretty funny there, John!    It begs the question, though, if I have a shell, why do I need a hat?

As a rightie who does everything rightie, I'm not sure what I can add here. In general, lefties are better with their right hands than righties are with their lefts.

I can imagine fretting strings with my right hand and yet I would not be able to strum or pick with any fluidity with my left hand.

The general consensus is that strumming and picking is more important for the making of music than is fretting strings, which is why most of us strum and pick with our strong hand.  Let's all remember that when people ask for tab to learn songs as though all that matters is the fretting hand.

I would give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

Unless you are going to play with a noter, definitely remove the outer string so that the remaining three would be equidistant.  That extra space on the fretboard is nothing to be feared and would actually make bending the string a bit easier.

If you play with a noter, you might want to remove the inner string so that the melody string is separated a bit more from the drones.

Alex,  I'll just address your first question here and also encourage you to join the Modern Chord Style Players Group here.

When he performs, Steven Seifert rarely uses his thumb.  Aaron O'Rourke uses his more often, but still not a lot compared to the rest of us.  But importantly, both of them teach chording using the thumb.  And most of use all our fingers.

The reason Seifert and O'Rourke don't use their thumbs that much is that they use their ring finger (Seifert) or their pinky (O'Rourke) to barre across all the strings, allowing the other fingers to fret strings above the barre.  So in DAd, whereas I play the 335 G chord with my middle, ring, and thumb, Aaron just forms a barre with his pinky at 3 and then uses his index finger on the 5.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you don't use your thumb, the dulcimer can sit straight across your lap, kind of perpendicular to your legs. But if you use your thumb, you will want to angle the head of the dulcimer out over your knee more.  This is easy to demonstrate and harder to describe, but the basic idea is that you want a relaxed angle for you fretting hand.  I often change how far out the dulcimer is angled depending on how much I use my thumb in a given song.

Personally, I think the best approach is to be flexible, making sure you are able to use all five fingers, and then choosing the fretting hand attack that best fits a given arrangement.

For the record, I played the guitar for decades before discovering the mountain dulcimer.  I think of the right hand as playing the guitar and the left hand as playing the piano.  Maybe that helps. Maybe not.

The advice to loosen the strings is common for guitars.  But string tension on guitars is much greater than that on dulcimers, and dulcimers have the ultimate brace (meaning the fretboard) keeping things intact.  Tuning down a little bit, as John and Nate have suggested, is probably a good idea but may not be necessary unless environmental conditions are going to change drastically. If the instrument is just going to sit in your closet, I wouldn't worry about it.  If you are putting it in a storage unit in the desert with no climate control, you may run into problems that loosening the strings won't solve.

P.S. Congrats on your McCafferty dulcimer. I love mine, which is evidenced in how "used" it now looks.

Wow.  2009? I think that's around the time I joined.  How many are we now? 2000?  3000?

@davisjames, I can't speak for other people, but as I was learning the dulcimer I would post videos of standard old timey fare as I learned the repertoire: Bonaparte's Retreat, Mississippi Sawyer, Cripple Creek, Whiskey Before Breakfast, etc.  But as I've advanced in my playing, I tend to record only stuff that's a little different, meaning originals or pop tunes or lesser-known fiddle tunes or Celtic airs or whatever.

I still play traditional, old timey music in jams, but I tend to no longer record the well-known standard stuff.  So the video and audio that I post is not reflective of the music I play on a regular basis.

You should not normally have to do anything with those screws. Over time, however, the tuning pegs might get too stiff or loose and you adjust them with those screws.  You probably only need to adjust them once every ten years or so.  If you don't have a problem tuning your strings, don't mess with those screws.

Some tuning pegs have much tinier little screws, and sometimes they are on the other end of the post.

That's really beautiful, @robin-thompson.  Although I would not recognize the melody as one of yours, I can hear your delicate slides certainly.  Your niece is quite talented.  Hopefully you can forgive her for going to Indiana for school.  

Although it's been dormant for some time, the 6-String Dulcimers Group here still has a lot of members.  Perhaps you could join that group and resurrect a discussion or two on what those instruments offer.

Remember that you have to join the group to be able to see all the content.

Hey John.  I have a Ron Ewing baritone dulcimette made with 6 strings in three courses. Basically, each string is doubled.  I love the sound.  I has the pop of a good mandolin.  And it was great for strumming tunes, meaning tunes that involve a lot of just strumming across all the strings.  One day I restrung it without each of the double strings, so it was just a 3-stringed dulcimer.  That was about 10 years ago, and I have never gone back.  Without the double strings it is just much easier to play more nuanced music, sometimes picking a single string instead of strumming all the time.  And certain techniques such as bending strings or even just adding some vibrato are simply not possible with the double strings.

I guess that story is evidence that I prefer 3 strings to 6.  However, that double string dulcimer sounded great for certain tunes.  I think my playing has just gravitated to a different style.

I fixed the spelling in the title. And yes, John Stockard produced very elegant dulcimers with impeccable intonation.

Sometimes comments get embedded in forums on related topics.  Here was one place the video was posted , in a conversation on the popularity of the dulcimer.

There are a few other places around FOTMD where people discussed this video.  I am more impressed with Seyfried's singing than her dulcimer playing, but it's all pretty impressive.  And it's great to see the dulcimer get some mainstream attention.

Mike, I have one of the Hall brand pyrex glass noters that Amazon used to sell. Here is the listing explaining that it is no longer available: Hall dulcimer noter .  That is the exact model I have.  It was given to me when I bought my first dulcimer about 14 or 15 years ago.

It is well made and very pretty.  It produces a very bright tone and slides around like butter on a hot skillet, although my noter skills are pretty poor, so I can't do a good demo. I have trouble avoiding the fret wire.

I never use it.  If you pay for shipping plus make a $10 donation to FOTMD, it is yours.  Send me a personal message if you're interested.  I would package it up and get some estimates on shipping before you have to commit.

Hi @mdwannabe.  First, strings get stiff and stale just from exposure to air.  They also get grimy from being played, but strings age even if they are not played at all.  And wound strings age much faster than do plain steel strings.  So you might consider just changing your string.  Try that before anything else.

I am not sure what exactly you mean by "tinny."  Is there perhaps a buzz?  If you fret the string, does the "tinny" sound remain?  Try fretting at each fret and see if sound gets better.  If it is equally tinny up and down the fretboard, perhaps it is not sitting cleanly in the nut or bridge and a small adjustment might be necessary.

I'm sure one of the builders here at FOTMD will have better ideas than I do.

We did all embrace the word "international."  The reason it was even a discussion was because of my initial question, which stemmed from having learned of National Guitar Day (probably from a Sweetwater ad) and wondering whether we should have a National Dulcimer Day.  I don't recall any resistance to Robin's suggestion of "international."  It is both more inclusive and also appropriately celebratory regarding the dulcimer's spread beyond the hills and hollows of Appalachia.  (And I personally love the juxtaposition of "international" and "Appalachian.")

@nate, the discussion did indeed start on the Positive Thread, but my memory is that once we decided on a date and a name, I started this discussion here.

This year was year 4.  But remember that year 1 was not at the end of the year (like a birthday) but at the beginning. So one year in was year 2, etc.  Next year will be year 5.

Earlier in this thread I shared the image of a sticker I had made.  I just got some more, so if anyone wants a couple, send me a PM.  I also made the banner that Robin used to advertise the day here at FOTMD back when we had those banner ads. I'd be happy to offer those images for a DPN article if we want to go that route.

Here is the sticker:

And here is the banner:

It's good to chronicle this stuff for the historical record.  Thanks, @robin-thompson.  So next year will be the 5th year! Maybe we can plan something special for then.

At the heart of this day are the sentiments Robin shared a few posts back: "it's a grassroots celebration of the spread of the Appalachian dulcimer from the Appalachians to countries around the world.  And no one is in charge.  Any creative endeavor featuring mountain dulcimer is welcome for sharing."

Well, everybody, it appears our efforts to create International Appalachian Dulcimer Day has been a success, if we define success as the growing awareness of others of this special day to honor a special instrument.  People who know nothing about our efforts here are now referring to this day and it is becoming part of dulcimer lore.

The question before us now is whether we want the origin of IADD to remain "an unofficial holiday of obscure origin," much like the instrument itself, or whether we want to assert the role of FOTMD in creating the day.

One of us (I would volunteer) could easily write up a few sentences on the creation of IADD here at FOTMD and insert those lines into the Wikipedia entry on the mountain dulcimer.  The evidence (first in the Positive Thread and then here) is clear.

Should we assert our role as the originators or is it best to leave things "obscure"?

Thanks so much, John for that explanation.  Basically, you are defining purity of tone as a minimum of overtones.  That seems logical.

But it also raises a question which I asked earlier, which is how the mathematical definition of purity of tone corresponds to what we subjectively hear.  It certainly seems to our ears that the brighter sound of notes plucked closer to the bridge is more accurate or pure than the warmer sound of notes plucked closer to the center.

My question about fingers and pick was, well, kind of stupid honestly, since clearly those are variables you would want to hold constant if you did a physical experiment and something you would not choose to address in a theoretical simulation.

But there are real-world issues that muddy the cleanliness of your mathematical model.  In your first diagram of the inverted V, h represents the extent of the pluck, or how much the string is pulled before being plucked.  But there is a lot less tension on the string in the middle than there is on the ends.  To pull that string to the same extent by the bridge would result in a much more violent release, increasing the volume, certainly, but also, I assume, changing the nature of the string's vibrations.  I think you might need to add another factor--string tension--to this study and adjust h in that diagram to keep tension constant. Does that make sense?

If I understand you, @johnr, by "middle" you mean at half the string's length, or the octave (7th fret on a dulcimer, 12th fret on all those chromatic instruments).  We would normally say you get a "warmer" or "softer" tone there than you do towards the bridge, where the tone is usually described as "brighter."  So the warmer tone corresponds to what you describe as "purer" based on the sound waves.  By "purer" do you mean that there are fewer waves that bunch together to make a note?

How did you pluck or strum the string?  Whether you use a plectrum or bare fingers also affects the tone in ways that I assume you could measure.

@sam-edelston is a rock star, for sure! 

I like the title they give him on TV: "musician and dulcimer expert."  I want that on my business card.

Robin Thompson: It's IADD!  

https://youtu.be/bWp82g_V59o?si=EvOWqAbxDgE1YAUU

That's beautiful playing, Robin. Your sensitive approach to the noter is second to none.  Peace and goodwill to you, too.

Well I was able to make a video using Clipchamp for the first time, but YouTube only let me upload it as a short.  If it ain't one thing . . .

https://youtube.com/shorts/rKRztEXOx8E?feature=share

Happy IADD, everyone.  I tried to record a video last night using OBS studio, but the audio came out distorted.  I'll try again using different software a bit later.

However, I was the mystery guest at Pat Clark's Send in the Music today.  She will post the video soon, if it's not already up.  Today is also the 5th anniversary of Send in the Music, so lots to celebrate.  I was kind of nervous and my playing was pretty spotty, but here was my set: Reel de l'Oiseau Bleu, Cheticamp, Linstead Market, All in a Garden Green, Lady Gethin, Fishin' Blues, and an original, Safe Haven.

Congrats, John.  I was able to locate a summary and your bio, but Taylor & Francis won't let me see the whole text.  My library has a four-year delay for full-text articles of that particular journal. That's OK. I learned a little about you and can see from the summary that I really wouldn't understand the text anyway.  I may request it through Interlibrary Loan just to add to the dulcimer library.

How do you measure tone mathematically?  It seems like such a subjective quality.

If you judge by the number of new members joining FOTMD, the MD community is strong.

That's such a nice gesture on Glen's part, Jim. I love the vest!

Several years ago I lent a stranger a dulcimer at a dulcimer festival. The next year at that same festival he showed up with a limberjack for me. Or should I say limberjill .

That's hilarious, @nate.  It certainly demonstrates the limitations of information from AI.  On the one hand, it found your information here. On the other hand, it fails to recognize how unique your builds are, implying lots of "enthusiasts" are experimenting the way you do.

Neither of the two products I use occasionally--Howard Feed-N-Wax and Old English Lemon Oil--contain silicone.  I have to admit, though, that I didn't know that until I looked it up. Those products were recommended to me years ago and they both seem to work well.

Let's remember that the distinction between the lute family and the zither family is based on organology, which classifies instruments based on the way they make sound (technically its the Hornbostel-Sachs system). 

There are certainly other ways to classify them: how they are played, what they sound like, the purpose of the music (dance, worship), etc.  After all, in terms of organology, the piano and the organ are completely unrelated instruments, the former a string instrument and the latter a wind instrument.  But most of us see them as similar because they are played in a similar manner.  In terms of how you play the instrument, the mountain dulcimer is much closer to lutes than to zithers such as the hammered dulcimer.

We made it into the AI algorithms!  That constitutes success in my book, even if the information being spewed by the bots is factually incorrect.

I feel like Steve Martin in The Jerk when he saw his name in the phonebook:

Well OK, so lute might be the genus, but we still need a species name.  

It may not be a dulcimer, but it isn't a lute either.  A lute usually has 11 or more strings. I believe a Renaissance lute has 15 strings, and some courses are not fretted but only used for bass notes.  The instrument in the video is more like a diatonic ukulele than a diatonic lute. 

@ken-longfield is on the right track referring to it as what is often called a stick or walkabout dulcimer.  The odd thing about Seagull's Merlin is that it has a 6+ fret but no 6 fret.

I hope you know, @lilley-pad, that the filmmakers responsible for the Hearts of the Dulcimer documentary are FOTMD members @Patricia Delich and @Wayne Jiang .

And some of the folks responsible for the Santa Cruz dulcimer renaissance back in the day are still active, most notably Neal Hellman and Howard Rugg.  Neal organizes the Redwood Dulcimer Day festival every year (mid-August) and Howard has started making dulcimers again, resurrecting Capritaurus.

When I bought my Terry McCafferty dulcimer, he was offering 3 VSLs from which to choose: 25", 25.8", and 27", though I could be wrong on that last one.  The boxes are all identical, with the difference just being the length of the fingerboard and the placement of the saddle.  So his instruments would be good ones to choose from to gauge the difference VSL makes.

I am convinced that there is little-to-no difference in tone, although the differences in VSL in these cases are minimal.  

However, I believe the 25.8" has a bit more sustain than the 25", and the difference is less than an inch! (I opted for the 25" model anyway, just for the comfort of my chording hand.)

(If you visit Terry's website, click the "Cool Stuff" page. You might see someone you know playing a tune or two!)

Yeah, to actually measure the difference, we would need to hold all the other variables constant.  We would need the same builder to make identical instruments with the exception of the VSL.  Same box, same bracing, same wood types, same wood thickness, same amount of glue, etc.  And even then we would have to decide what string gauges to use.  Would you choose the gauges most appropriate for the longer VSL or the shorter?  Would you cut the difference in half to measure? Either way, you are not really hearing the way at least one of the dulcimers would normally sound.

I guess what I'm saying is that we could never measure this accurately.  But the good news is we'll be able to discuss it forever! 

Sustain.  I think longer VSLs have more sustain than shorter ones.

Remember that modern instruments often have much larger boxes than do traditional instruments, so some of the generalizations here may not accurately describe the difference between a traditional instrument with a long VSL and a modern instrument with a shorter one.