Forum Activity for @robin-thompson

I'll be over tomorrow for leftover chicken soup, Robert, and some porch picking!  :)

I've got a pot of chicken soup on the stove. Trying to do farm chores with a pot cooking on the stove is a bit of a challenge. You know, being two places at once. Not a bad day for some porch picking too.... Robert

Hey, come on over, Dusty!  We've eaten already but there's plenty more in the soup pot.  :) 

Is that an invitation, Robin?

There's a pot of tomato-based bean soup cooking on the stove now for lunch.  It is a sunny and warm-ish day here in our neck of the woods.  So, maybe lunch out on the front porch.  :)

Thank you! I looked at that website, and it looks like it has what I'm looking for. I have two dulcimers that lack inlays, so a sheet of 20 will serve me well.

I have used those a few times on various instruments. My latest was on a custom Folkcraft dulcimer that had all the fretboard inlays I'm used to, except it didn't have one on the 5th. My eyes are just used to one on the 5th, all my other dulcimers have one there. So I got the white pearl stickers from inlaystickers.com, and put one on the 5th. Can't tell the difference between the inlays and the inlay sticker. 

Go directly to their website for many more choices. Still free shipping. 

 FB_IMG_1583889063833.jpg - 208KB

I haven't used them, but a couple of my guitar player friends use them for marking certain chords in unusual tunings.

I'm enjoying a dulcimer I added to my collection, but I'm a bit thrown by its lack of fretboard markers, which I'm used to.

Have you used something like this and if so, has it been useful? Is there a better alternative? 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PGQYQJY?tag=duckduckgo-brave-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

I'm happy you folks enjoyed seeing this!  

I've tried a striker yet wasn't very good at it.  I've tried to make my husband use a striker on the mountain dulcimer (much like a person would use fiddlesticks) while I played it yet he wasn't interested in sticking it out with me.  

Very fascinating. I first started playing dulcimer using a colored pencil for a striker. At the time i was listening to a blues artist named eddie jones who played a diddley bow with a whittled stick and thought maybe i was bringing a new technique over to the dulcimer. Of course it makes sense that a great player has already thought of it and developed mastery with it. I gave up pretty soon on the colored pencil so it's awesome to see what a skilled version of what i was trying looks like. Personally I found it very difficult to utilize the percussion while still keeping the sound sweet and pretty and I made a striker wrapped in felt, which i found gives the dulcimer a sound almost like a piano.

More likely.

Also, the holes on the new machine head plate may not line up with the old holes. Ideally you have a drill and a set of small bits. If not, a push pin or thumbtack will make a suitable hole.

Thanks everyone, I will give it a try! Thanks, too, for the explanation that the popping could be caused by string tension adjusting. I had a hunch that that might've been happening!

"You will need a very thin-bladed screwdriver though, so you don't strip the heads of those teenie screws."  Or you may need a very small phillips head screwdriver. 

Dusty is spot on about the string pop sound!

Yes anyone who can use a screwdriver can change tuners -- especially a set on a bar.  You just need to make sure the new set has the round gear oriented towards the body of the dulcimer, not on the outward side.  This helps the tuners work properly; otherwise they can slip and not stay in tune.

You will need a very thin-bladed screwdriver though, so you don't strip the heads of those teenie screws.  

@dulcididdle, I just want to follow up on the least important of your initial questions: the popping sound you heard and the string going very flat.  When you put on a new string and start winding, there simply isn't as much tension on that string as there will be later, when you get it up to pitch.  So often it winds loosely around the post.  Then, either while you are tuning or sometimes a little while later, the tension will pull that loosely wound part tighter.  That is probably what happened when you heard the popping sound. And yes, strings go flat as that happens.  When I put new strings on I manually pull on the string to increase the tension, and then as I get close to pitch I repeatedly pull the string up, stretching it, trying to get the winding as tight as possible and all the stretching out before I start playing.  New strings always needs to stretch a bit (going flat in the process), but you can speed that process up so there will be less re-tuning later if you just pull on the new string as I've described.

Also, can the average person do the tuner replacement? I can use a screwdriver, measure, and stuff like that, but have few other carpentry/luthier skills.

Thank you, Ken, very helpful advice! On to find some new tuners and the urethane. Cheers!

I would just replace the tuners.  You can get a pair of cheap 4x4 mandolin tuners (4 tuners on a plate) for $15-$25 on Ebay.  Make sure you use the 'stick' which has the round gears on the body side, like the ones you show in the photo.  

Finish -- I would use a rub-on urethane (no rattle-can)

Strings winding neatly -- I always go through the hole, around the peg, and back through the hole as I pull the string on.  Then I  take a quarter turn or so of the knob to bring the string up in tension.  After I get to the note I need, I trim the ends of the strings close to the tuner shaft.  No sense in winding around the tuner shafts multiple times.  No matter where a string breaks, you'll never be able to shorten it and re-use it!

Two maintenance questions that I'd appreciate help on:

1. Recently I brought a Hondo HD-2 dulcimer out of storage and replaced the strings that had been on since the early 1980s. Before changing the strings I'd noticed inconsistencies in the tuning gears. I would turn and turn the pegs but they didn't seem to change the string tension, then they would get very hard to turn, then past a certain point they would turn again. When I changed strings this problem became much worse. Within 30 minutes of changing the bass string, the string made a popping sound while I was playing, although it didn't break. It went very flat, though, and the tuning peg is very tight--so tight that I'm afraid to turn it. Also it looks like the entire tuning assembly is loose near the melody strings (I'm looking at the air space between the tuning assembly plate and the headstock in the side profile photo). I'm interested in suggestions on how to get the gears running more smoothly, and any other maintenance that this area might need. I'm also looking for tips on getting the strings to wind neatly around the pegs, and I'm not sure if the string end needs 'locking' (like on a mandolin) when it's first threaded through the peg hole?

Photos of the tuning mechanism:

2. I would like to put some oil or wax on the instrument to give it some protection (I live in a very arid place). In these photos note that the finish has worn off of the fingerboard. I'm wondering what to apply to the body of the instrument and to the fingerboard. The instrument has a matte/satin look and the body is plywood.

I know this is a lot of info and questions, and really appreciate any help in fixing these issues. Thanks in advance!

Oh, yes, please post a photo if you find it, @rob-n-lackey!  I have a little Jeffreys and it has a cool sound.  

Sorry to hear of his passing.  He was a great pianist.  I saw a pic of him playing his dulcimer.  If I find it again, I'll post a link here, but it looked like a A W Jeffreys. It definitely had no extra frets. We'll always have his music!

According to my fb friend Ryan, McCoy Tyner passed away today.  Ryan posted this recording to honor Mr Tyner's passing.

Glad Jim was able to put your mind at ease.  

I did hear back from Jim Woods and he said that those were superficial and in the wood all along. It was not a result of damage and will not get worse.  If the dulcimer was unacceptable to me, he would allow me to keep it until another one was made and shipped to me. I told him that I love the sound and wanted to keep this dulcimer instead. When asking about varnish, he told me that I didn’t need to do anything to that area of the dulcimer. If I wanted, I could use furniture polish that did not contain silicone. Old English (in the bottle) would be fine. Jim Woods of McSpadden Dulcimers was really helpful. Thanks everyone for your input, too. I have been playing the dulcimer less than a year and still have a lot to learn about these wonderful instruments!

Success!

Well, that calculator is interesting. I plugged in the length of the shortest dulcimer (25.5 inches) and it said that for the bass string I need a diameter of 0.15. The thinnest one I have is 0.20. The steel one I had tried the other day broke. Tonight, I put on the 0.20 in bronze, and it took.

I was able to tune up the middle string that was already on the instrument, whatever that was. Then I put on a 0.8 (which is what the calculator said) for a melody string.

About 30 minutes of playing later, it works. I've got a dulcimer tuned to GDG (G3, D4, G4). 

Thanks for the info on where to place the capo. I'll have to keep that in mind. And the gauge calculator will probably be useful.

Remember when using a capo that you have to push down evenly and with some force on the top before you tighten it. The strings have to be depressed as though you were fingering them or using a noter.  It might take a few tries before you get the hang of it. 

And I should specify that if you put it on top of the fret, it should be barely on top, meaning the fret should still be visible from the side of the capo. The majority of the capo should still be to the left of the fret wire. Don't put the capo centered right on top.  If I had better cameras and editing capability I would make a video about how to do that.

Tuning up is safer than tuning down, for the worst that can happen is that you'll break a string!  I use a wound .020 as the bass string on both my smaller dulcimers made by Ron Ewing.  One is an octave dulcimer tuned to D and the other is what Ron calls a "baritone dulcimette," which is about the size of a Ginger and tuned to G or A.  But they are both significantly smaller than a standard dulcimer, so I am not surprised your string broke.

If you are trying to tune a standard dulcimer to tonal ranges it was not originally intended, you might consult the Strothers String Gauge Calculator . You indicate the VSL and the note you want and it determines the correct gauge for you. It errs on the light side, so feel free to go one or two sizes heavier.

I'm hoping to tune up. I think that would match a mandolin. A ginger would be a logical choice, but ... more money. So right now, I'm seeing if I can get by with some new strings, and talking with some string vendors.

The capo makes my instruments sound awful. But maybe I'm doing something wrong. Now having watched your video, I'll have to try again by placing it directly on the fret. Oh, and I love the 7th sound that a 1.5 fret has, too. I've enjoyed having it on two of my instruments and will have to try it on the third by placing the cap on the 4th fret.

Carrying three dulcimers isn't that big of a deal; it's less weight than my hammered dulcimer. Still, I'd expect to carry just two.

Yes, I suppose I could learn how to tune more quickly. I'd probably stay in C or G as the default; in the bluegrass group, we don't use D that often.

Thanks for the reply!

@Userno4, I have two dulcimers currently tuned either GDG or AEA.  One is a baritone dulcimer, so it is tuned a fourth or fifth below a standard dulcimer.  It is a larger instrument with extra bracing inside.  The other is 3/4-size instrument about the size of the McSpadden Ginger.  It is tuned a fourth or a fifth above a standard dulcimer.

Depending on whether you are trying to tune above or below a standard dulcimer, you will want a smaller instrument (above) or a larger instrument (below).

I would suggest keeping a tuner on your instrument and learning to retune quickly; that way you can move from D to C and back quickly enough to join songs in either of those keys. And you should be able to retune between G and A quickly as well. It's only three strings and one step.

Let me also offer another possibility for G and A: use a capo. Tuned to D, you are in G with the capo at the third fret and in A with the capo at the fourth fret.  So with a single dulcimer, you can get to C, D, G, and A pretty easily.  Here's a video I made for another discussion here at FOTMD about using a capo.

Also, the 1.5 fret aids in getting other keys. If you are tuned to D, you can also play in G with that 1.5 fret since it gives you the C natural you need.  Between the extra fret and the capo, more keys are at your disposal out of a single tuning than you might think. You don't really want to carry three dulcimers to every jam you attend, do you? It takes just about as long to put one instrument into its case and take another out as it does to retune your three strings.

I have three dulcimers. Which one should I tune to GDC?

Dulcimer 1: A Roosebeck that my mother bought me about five years ago. It's 25.5 inches from nut to bridge. I think that the 1.5 fret I had someone put in has risen a bit, which explain the tinny sound I sometimes hear. (Yes, I know it's imported from Pakistan, which brings out the haters.)

Dulcimer 2: This one is made by Michael Sanderson of Harbor Springs, Michigan, going under the name of Sylvan Music. The distance from the nut to the bridge is 26.25 inches. It's got a more mellow sound than the Roosebeck. This is the one I usually take to a dulcimer club, where everyone tunes down to to CGC. It has a 1.5 fret, which has been well-behaved.

Dulcimer 3: I bought this one at a Goodwill auction last week. It's a TK O'Brien mode 36. Like the Sanderson dulcimer, it was made in early 2011. It's 25.875 inches long from nut to bridge. It has a 6.5 fret but not a 1.5. It has a very sweet sound, especially when I strum around the 4th or 5th fret. It's probably the quietest of the three.

I'd like to move one of these to GDG because I'd like to have one for a bluegrass jam session I go to on a regular basis. I expect to take two with me, actually, one tuned in C (our autoharp player likes to play in C) and one in G (since it's a bluegrass group).

I bought some banjo strings (.20, .11, .09) and started to restring the Roosebeck with the .20. The string snapped, so I called GHS strings, the maker, and he said there must be a defect and will send me some new strings, including some thinner ones.

Any suggestions?

Thanks to everyone! I agree with every comment. I did send photos to Jim Woods and asked suggestions. If I ever need it repaired, I will go to a dulcimer luthier. It makes my heart full to know that I have such a great sounding instrument. I will definitely take great care of it. Going to let you all know what Jim Woods says in his response. He has always been great about any questions I have had in the past while making the two dulcimers that I have from McSpadden. 

If I read your post correctly, you are the original registered owner of this instrument and as such that dulcimer has a lifetime guarantee. I think I would consider sending Jim Woods the pics you posted and inquire as to what he thinks should be done to correct the issue.  It maybe that that separation around the knot may just require a bit of finish or something of that nature to secure what may simply be due to the wood aging a bit. 

I understand the tone issue you mentioned too as I have redwood/cherry and it is really outstanding and is just as balanced and bright as some that cost considerably more. 

Anyhow, what have you got to lose?

I agree with those who suggest not doing anything, at least for the time being. Other than some minor cosmetic issues, you don't yet have a problem. At this stage, your dulcimer is simply developing a little character. If the seperations turn into genuine cracks, they can be repaired.

As Bob says -- it "ain't broke" so don't try to fix it.    Especially since you don't know what Cyano Acrylate "superglue" is --  you'd be apt to glue your fingers together !  You need to ask McSpadden what they use for "varnish" -- it could be any number of things like polyurethane, varnish, shellac, various oils.  

As Bob says too, those truly do not look like cracks, they look like grain going around a knot.  Since you say there's no light coming through cracks, gluing would not help.  Those marks could have been there since the beginning, and you're just noticing them.  I don't even see any evidence of the "varnish" cracking there.

It NOT as if McSpadden, or anyone who builds dulcimers goes deliberately out of their way to hide imperfections, as your luthier suggests!  That said, darn few of us builders can afford to just cut the back off and scrap the instrument or replace it.  If there had been real cracks, McSpadden would not have sold it.  Or they would have fixed the cracks and then sold it as a defect instrument.  

Word of advice -- do not take your instrument to any old luthier for work unless absolutely necessary.  Always talk to someone who is a dulcimer builder/luthier.   Dulcimer are NOT guitars, they are not built the same way, they don't make sound the same way as guitars. mandolins and such like; and they are not 'set up' like those other instruments either.  

Silverstrings, I would offer a wee suggestion: Don't panic!

I was imagining cracks along a straight grain, but from the pics these appear to be around a knot section in the board. Are the hairline cracks actually going through the boards? If so that can be remedied. They look superficial from the photographs and I might imagine they will remain superficial. Give it time, keep it in a regulated environment like you have been, and out of the direct sunlight and see how it does. If it sings as beautifully as it does, leave it alone, it ain't broken. Instruments in far worse condition are played regularly; just be tender with it.

~Bob

Thanks, Ken. My husband, a jazz guitar teacher thought I should possibly get a replacement dulcimer. I did explain that I tried out every dulcimer by various makers at a recent festival and not one compares to the sound and balance that I get from this one. I wonder if they knew the wood had problems or that it just happened with this wood. Thoughts on that? The luthier said that there is no place to put the glue. If it gets worse, he would fix it for me. What is CA “superglue” and what kind of varnish would you suggest? Thanks Ken, for any input. My brother is an award winning sound mixer for Sony Pictures and even he says that he has never heard such a “magical” instrument! 

Not much McSpadden can do:  replace the instrument is about it.  If they put  new back on it will probably wipe out the "unbelievable tone".   

They could dribble some very thin CA "superglue" into the cracks; let that dry, and then cover with additional "varnish".  But you can do that at home just as easily and just as well.  That's what I would do.