Sorry for the bad link. Thanks for correcting it. I actually think the calculator at the UK address is far more interesting to play with. I just rechecked that link and it's still good.
String guages for slide dulcimer
The page is
STRING TENSION GUIDE FOR ACOUSTIC GUITAR
It includes equations and the weights and cross-sections for various GHS strings plus a number of tables.
"GHS has used the 25.5” scale length (typical for Fender) in the enclosed guide. Your individual instrument may vary."
This involves more work than I am willing to undertake. I'll stick with the usual "dulcimer strings."
http://www.ghsrep.weebly.com/uploads/2/2/2/5/22258814/2020-ghs-acoustic-guitar-tension.pdf
Sloppy URL citation. This gives access to a relevant document
http://www.ghsrep.weebly.com/uploads/2/2/2/5/22258814/2020-ghs-acoustic-guitar-tension.pdf
Patty, something must be missing in the link you provided. I get a 404 error when I click on it. It looks like there might be unnecessary spaces and perhaps something left off the end.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
And here's the response from GHS strings to my questions about tension. I don't have time to read this now, but I hope someone finds it interesting!
http://www.ghsrep.weebly.com/ uploads/2/2/2/5/22258814/2020- ghs-acoustic-guitar-tension. pd
Greetings! I also sent an email to Bing Futch, whose Patreon group I recently joined, and he responded by posting a link to a string tension calculator that he's used before-- https://chordgen.parmakis.co.uk/tensiontool.php .
He also posted a 15 minute video (to Patreon) about how he uses it and did the example of a 29" dulcimer at DAD. I'm attaching a screen shot of those settings. You start by clicking "show editor" and then all he did was set the tuning to DAD, the octave of each note, the type of string (steel with phosphor bronze winding) and then entered the string sizes he thought he wanted and clicked "calculate tensions". It produced some graphs, and in that case it showed the middle string as having a somewhat lower tension than the other two, so he clicked "equalize" and it changed one string value to bring them more into alignment. He also mentioned that tension in the 20-30lb range were safe and a bit on the light side (for slide, that is) and anything in the 50-60 range was risky as far as breaking. You can also set it for more strings, either single or double, so it's very accommodating to all kinds of string instruments and several kinds of strings. He said he's found it to be useful, and at the least it'll give me a place to start! I encourage you to check out the tool and play with it! I haven't yet, but I wanted to get this up on the forum ASAP.
Thanks all you guys for the tips & ideas. I put in an email to juststrings and even sent a note to Norris Bennett. Fingers crossed!
Hi Ken, thanks for your response, that chart might be helpful. It occurred to me that there might be a chart of what gauge strings could be tuned to for different VSL lengths, but so far I haven't found any evidence of one. If I find one I'll report it.
I can't find the chart I had either in a computer file or a hard copy. It was something a string maker shared with me. Each manufacturer uses different cores for the various strings they make and none of them (at least that I've been able to find) publish the core sizes, but I'll keep looking. From what I've been able to find as suggestions 0.010 for the first string, 0.012 for the middle, and 0.018 for the bass. You can buy a plain steel bass string.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
updated by @ken-longfield: 10/26/24 02:07:59PM
Ken Longfield:
For a 29" VSL you'd be pushing it to get the melody string above a 0.012. You can try a 0.014 or 0.013 but be prepared to it break. The same holds true for the middle string. The 0.024 wound string works because the core is thinner and the winding makes up the thickness. You could use wound strings for the melody and middle. Somewhere I have a chart of what the core of various wound strings are. I'll see if I can find it to make a better suggestion.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
That's what got me excited in the first place! I also just don't want to sell this dulcimer because it's really got a lovely sound, but I just can't handle the the wide frets, and my husband built me a 25" that is great for me. I've always love the sound of slide and I'd love to be able to use it in blues.
Wally Venable:
Bing Futch has a good 9-year old video - Dulcimerica 273 - "Sliding On The Resonator" - Mountain Dulcimer
His instrument is very much a "non-standard" one.
He suggests, among other things, that you may want increased string height and possibly no frets for slide playing.
Ken's suggestions about trying wound strings look good to me.
Thanks Ken, for the references and ideas. I will be playing through my 20A Fender most of the time. I will definitely check out Juststrings, I was wondering if anyone made wound versions of the higher strings, I do love the sound and feel of wound strings. Interesting idea about the plain bass too, never heard of that! The bridge & nut idea is interesting too. I figure a good chunk of my problem is that I just need to develop my wrist more, hence the question about bar vs. finger slides.
Ken Hulme:
The onlty slide player I've ever seen was at Cullowee years ago when I was in the Traditional track. One of the teachers -- Norris Bennet -- was a member of the Ebony Hillbillies, the famous black NYC string band. Slide dulcimer certainly is an interesting sound. As Wally sez, you can try other gauges but there are scientific reasons why you can only go so thick or thin on string gauges for a particular VSL.
Something you might want to try is using wound versions of the mid and melody strings, to 'fatten them up' closer to the diameter of the bass. Juststrings.com sells Phosphor Bronze wound 12 and 14 gauge Acoustic Guitar strings for $4-$8 depending on brand (and string brand is irrelevant).
Conversely, you can try using a plain steel bass string (we traditional dulcimer players do this all the time to help us get that 'high silvery' tradtional sound.
Also, the bass string notches in the nut & bridge could be filed just a very tiny bit deeper to bring the top of the bass string down just the tiniest bit.
Hi Wally, thanks a lot. I think a .012 was the first increase I tried, and it went snap-TWANG! in short order. I went back to an 11. I'm still low on the learning curve so I'd rather stick to DAD for now. Your middle string comment is interesting, thanks for sharing that.
Wally Venable:
Good luck on your explorations. Please give us some reports since there is little information on slide playing available.
Most slide work seems to have been done with electric or resonator dulcimers, not traditional bodies. These give a much stronger sustain to the notes. Much of this is done with extended string sets, going beyond simple DAD tuning.
My playing is in DAA, and I have no plans to do DAD.
I would say that you will be pushing your luck if you try to make the melody string heavier than an .012 - there are good reasons why we don't find .014 melody strings in the "dulcimer" sets sold, although they might sound better for us DAA folks.
I like a low middle string, tuned below the bass D. I've used an .028 for that, if my memory is correct. That won't work well in DAD because you can't then move to the middle string to get the low A in a melody.
For a 29" VSL you'd be pushing it to get the melody string above a 0.012. You can try a 0.014 or 0.013 but be prepared to it break. The same holds true for the middle string. The 0.024 wound string works because the core is thinner and the winding makes up the thickness. You could use wound strings for the melody and middle. Somewhere I have a chart of what the core of various wound strings are. I'll see if I can find it to make a better suggestion.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
Bing Futch has a good 9-year old video - Dulcimerica 273 - "Sliding On The Resonator" - Mountain Dulcimer
His instrument is very much a "non-standard" one.
He suggests, among other things, that you may want increased string height and possibly no frets for slide playing.
Ken's suggestions about trying wound strings look good to me.
The onlty slide player I've ever seen was at Cullowee years ago when I was in the Traditional track. One of the teachers -- Norris Bennet -- was a member of the Ebony Hillbillies, the famous black NYC string band. Slide dulcimer certainly is an interesting sound. As Wally sez, you can try other gauges but there are scientific reasons why you can only go so thick or thin on string gauges for a particular VSL.
Something you might want to try is using wound versions of the mid and melody strings, to 'fatten them up' closer to the diameter of the bass. Juststrings.com sells Phosphor Bronze wound 12 and 14 gauge Acoustic Guitar strings for $4-$8 depending on brand (and string brand is irrelevant).
Conversely, you can try using a plain steel bass string (we traditional dulcimer players do this all the time to help us get that 'high silvery' tradtional sound.
Also, the bass string notches in the nut & bridge could be filed just a very tiny bit deeper to bring the top of the bass string down just the tiniest bit.
Good luck on your explorations. Please give us some reports since there is little information on slide playing available.
Most slide work seems to have been done with electric or resonator dulcimers, not traditional bodies. These give a much stronger sustain to the notes. Much of this is done with extended string sets, going beyond simple DAD tuning.
My playing is in DAA, and I have no plans to do DAD.
I would say that you will be pushing your luck if you try to make the melody string heavier than an .012 - there are good reasons why we don't find .014 melody strings in the "dulcimer" sets sold, although they might sound better for us DAA folks.
I like a low middle string, tuned below the bass D. I've used an .028 for that, if my memory is correct. That won't work well in DAD because you can't then move to the middle string to get the low A in a melody.
Greetings! I have a 29" Folkcraft that I want to learn to play slide on. Is there anyone here who does that? I'm just starting out (with the slide), and currently have .024, .014, and .012, and it's hard to keep the slide level and I'd like to beef up the middle and melody strings to get a heartier sound, but there appear to be limits to how big you can go and still get a normal DAD tuning. The .024 is fine but the other two feel floppy and don't sound that great. Any suggestions (besides buying lots of gauges to try!) would be greatly appreciated. I won't be using it for anything but slide, so it doesn't matter if it's hard to pick or bend. I just don't want it to snap when I try to tune it! If you do play slide, do you use a tube slide or a bar slide? Thanks!
