Challenges?

Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts
OK, I just posted the upload/linking HOW-TO as a discussion on the Home Studio Recording Group. I'll create the group tonight or tomorrow.I would be grateful for any edits to the HOW-TO document.
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Yes looks great to me too. You can always do some fine tuning to the group later.Go for it! :)


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Robin Thompson
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
12 years ago
1,250 posts
Both thumbs up here, Ken. Looks good.
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts
Here's an edit. I will need to create a HOW-TO document for posting links. I'll post that document here this weekend.How does this sound?---------Call the Tune is a place to post songs or tunes in which youre the performer (or at least one of the performers).Our goal is to provide an inviting atmosphere in which people of ALL skill levels can post songs for their and others' enjoyment. You don't have to be a pro or hot-shot player to post here.Please dont post copyrighted material to the group. If you do, well have to delete it immediately to protect FOTMD from legal action. If we have to delete something that you posted, well leave a note on the comment wall saying why we deleted it. If you don't know whether your song is copyrighted, just post a question to the comment wall before posting the song. If you see copyrighted material here, let us know and we'll remove it promptly.If you're posting a new song that has never been posted to Call the Tune, post it as a new discussion.If you're posting your version of a song that has already been posted, please post it on the discussion for that song.For example, if you're the first person to post a version of "Shady Grove", start a discussion named "Shady Grove". If someone else has already posted a "Shady Grove" discussion, post your version of Shady Grove to that discussion.The idea is to have one discussion per song with many versions by many people posted to that discussion.It's best to keep discussion titles simple. The name of the song is usually all you need.It's important that you post songs to discussions rather than to the comment wall. Songs posted to the comment wall tend to sink without a trace and there goes your 15 minutes of fame!Always post a link to an audio or video clip when you post your song. See the HOW-TO document [ hot-linked ] for information on posting a link to your song. If you have trouble posting a link, please post a question to the comment wall.It's not required, but you can be certain that listeners will want to know the key and tuning in which you're playing. Feel free to post additional information that you think is interesting. (Whose version influenced yours, song history, meanings of lyrics, what kind of instrument you're playing, etc.)Always give credit where credit is due. It's perfectly OK to post a version of your favorite Jean Ritchie song (so long as its in the public domain), but if you learned your version from someone else, it's good form to credit them.Positive, constructive comments are welcome on any discussion. Let's keep the atmosphere friendly and welcoming to people of all interests and skill levels.
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Randy Adams said:
fwiw this can be done.
Yes, we tested it earlier in this thread:{{I posted to this discussion and clicked on "Upload file" under the text box for my new post. There, I was able to point to an MP3 file residing on my computer, and it uploaded to the discussion and clicking on it brought up my Quicktime program which played it no problem. You can do that in any post within a group as well. If anyone wants to test that themselves, feel free to test it in a group or here and then delete it after you see if it works ok.So, equally do-able in either a forum or a group. Youtube videos can just be embedded as usual.}}


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Randy Adams
Randy Adams
@randy-adams
12 years ago
89 posts

Strumelia said:
It looks pretty good to me !
{{Please post a link to an audio or video clip when you post your song. See the HOW-TO document [ hot-linked ] for information on posting a link to your song. If you have trouble posting a link, please post a question to the comment wall.}} -- I think it'd be ok to 'embed' a youtube video clip in a song discussion as opposed to only posting a link to it. We sort of have to only 'attach files' of audio clips because that's the only way to do it in a discussion thread.Other folks' thoughts on Ken's overview...?
fwiw this can be done.
Tom McDonald
Tom McDonald
@tom-mcdonald
12 years ago
26 posts
Just ran across this. Looks like a great idea, probably better than the existing video section. I always look at every version of a song that I can find when I learn new material, and it would be nice to gather multiple versions under one cyber-roof.
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts
REALLY useful feedback. I think that given the projected traffic, any time invested in ironing out wrinkles is apt to be repaid many times over.I'll work on this some more tomorrow. It's going to rain frogs and ducks, so I have a day off from farming.
Robin Thompson
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
12 years ago
1,250 posts
Ken's overview & Strumelia's comments look good to me.Ken, I would use "please" less-- both to clean up wording and so as not to make some actions appear to be optional. ;)
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
It looks pretty good to me!Things might get pretty messy if folks accidentally start posting their songs to the group's comment wall and then others start responding to them. So perhaps it's best if they are guided towards re-posting their clips to the discussion area. The comment wall will get full of questions and unrelated comments anyway. I doubt it will happen often enough to be much trouble.A couple of minor points-{{If you're posting your version of a song that has already been posted, please post it as a comment on the discussion for that song.....If someone else has already posted a "Shady Grove" discussion, post your version of Shady Grove to that discussion.}} -- avoid the suggestion of posting a song as a 'comment' as this might confuse people as to the Comment Wall again. better to just say "please post it in the discussion thread for that song."{{Please post a link to an audio or video clip when you post your song. See the HOW-TO document [ hot-linked ] for information on posting a link to your song. If you have trouble posting a link, please post a question to the comment wall.}} -- I think it'd be ok to 'embed' a youtube video clip in a song discussion as opposed to only posting a link to it. We sort of have to only 'attach files' of audio clips because that's the only way to do it in a discussion thread.One other thing we should keep in mind is that not all of Jean Ritchie's songs are public domain. ;)Ken, it looks good! Kinda funny all our fussing over starting a little FOTMD group. But I'm guessing it'll be rather high traffic.The main difference between the idea of this group and the FOTMD video and music lists already in place (where feedback often gets left by others as it is), is that multiple versions of the same song or tune can be easily compared and enjoyed, and there will be a centralized place for folks to comment on the versions and exchange information on them.Other folks' thoughts on Ken's overview...?


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts

"Call the Tune" rules and suggestions.Please comment and critique. Can some rules be eliminated? Are additional rules needed? Is the language clear really clear too forceful, not forceful enough? Are the rules in the right order? Feel free to give this a stern edit!Are they too verbose? I think they're too verbose.Eventually these should be numbered. I'll do these as RTF with emphasis on key words. I'm writing them as plain text now so they can be cut and pasted easily.---------------Call the Tune is a place to post songs or tunes in which youre the performer (or at least one of the performers).Our goal is to provide an inviting atmosphere in which people of ALL skill levels can post songs for their and others' enjoyment. You don't have to be a pro or hot-shot player to post here.Please dont post copyrighted material to the group. If you do, well have to delete it immediately to protect FOTMD from legal action. If we have to delete something that you posted, well leave a note on the comment wall saying why we deleted it. If you don't know whether your song is copyrighted, please post a question to the comment wall before posting the song. If you see copyrighted material here, let us know and we'll remove it promptly.If you're posting a new song that has never been posted to Call the Tune, please post it as a new discussion.If you're posting your version of a song that has already been posted, please post it as a comment on the discussion for that song. (For example, if you're the first person to post a version of "Shady Grove", start a discussion named "Shady Grove". If someone else has already posted a "Shady Grove" discussion, post your version of Shady Grove to that discussion.The idea is to have one discussion per song with many versions by many people posted to that discussion.It's best to keep discussion titles simple. The name of the song is usually all you need.Please post songs to discussions rather than to the comment wall. Songs posted to the comment wall tend to sink without a trace and there goes your 15 minutes of fame!Please post a link to an audio or video clip when you post your song. See the HOW-TO document [ hot-linked ] for information on posting a link to your song. If you have trouble posting a link, please post a question to the comment wall.It's not required, but you can be certain that listeners will want to know the key and tuning in which you're playing. Feel free to post additional information that you think is interesting. (Whose version influenced yours, song history, meanings of lyrics, what kind of instrument you're playing, etc.)Always give credit where credit is due. It's perfectly OK to post a version of your favorite Jean Ritchie song, but if you learned your version from someone else, it's good form to credit them.Positive, constructive comments are welcome on any discussion. Let's keep the atmosphere friendly and welcoming to people of all interests and skill levels.
Robin Thompson
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
12 years ago
1,250 posts
Well, double-dang. I hate it when stuff like that happens.Ken, I imagine others of us will keep an eye and ear open for music that's not in public domain. We want no trouble for FOTMD! Flint Hill said:
Dangit, I just posted a list of rules/suggestions, and they didn't post.

Back to the drawing board.

Should have done it in a text editor first.
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts
Dangit, I just posted a list of rules/suggestions, and they didn't post.Back to the drawing board.Should have done it in a text editor first.
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts
Agree, no voting or contest-like atmosphere.Regarding how to get a permalink: Doh! I never thought of that.I'll agree to do it for a year, barring unforeseen illness or whatever. I don't mind policing it for copyrighted material.I'll post some suggested header material (suggestions, rules, whatever) to this thread in the morning, and ask for comments.
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Yes, of course no voting or judging...eeewww! =8-o ;DWe must realize that once a thread is started for a particular song or tune....then that thread will be there for good and someone new might contribute their new version like a year from now or more! Unless the discussion thread gets 'closed' by a moderator...but I can't really envision a reason for doing that.Another good reason for making it a group rather than just a forum is- the description of what it's all about and instructions on how to go about contributing can be laid out clearly in a big text box right on the group's home page. On a forum you can't really set up a 'forum home page'.


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
folkfan
@folkfan
12 years ago
365 posts
No, no voting, just sort of a play around, where one person starts with a tune and then the next person to come along picks it up until everyone who wants to play that tune has shared the version they do. It's not a contest so much as a group sharing. Bobby Ratliff said:
I really like the sound of this, as it sounds fun and challenging both. A couple things I'd like to re-mention, is I think anytime we challenge ourselves it helps us get better... and it's always refreshing to hear someone else play the same song, because we learn more that way.
And, as someone else said or come close to saying..... I would be all for this, so long as we didn't do any voting as to WHO did the best job on said song.
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Strumelia said:
Ok, I just did a test.....
I posted to this discussion and clicked on "Upload file" under the text box for my new post. There, I was able to point to an MP3 file residing on my computer, and it uploaded to the discussion and clicking on it brought up my Quicktime program which played it no problem. You can do that in any post within a group as well. If anyone wants to test that themselves, feel free to test it in a group or here and then delete it after you see if it works ok.So, equally do-able in either a forum or a group. Youtube videos can just be embedded as usual.I like Vicki's "You Call the tune" name- sounds friendly and inviting.We need to keep it all public domain or traditional material though- I would need any copyrighted submissions to be deleted . Pain in the butt I know, but a "You Call the tune" group or forum would tend to accumulate a 'lot' of material over time, and i don't want FOTMD ever shut down for copyright violations.Personally, I think that since there is no technical advantage either way for group or forum....I think a group might be better organized if it had someone guiding it a bit. And it helps if people need to join the group before posting. Ken, I suspect this would quickly become one of the largest groups here on fotmd.I don't really want to have to spend extra time keeping watch for copyright issues there on a daily basis (I already do that on the video and music playlists), so I would ask the group leader/administrator to please make sure the submissions are always public domain.The other thing is that if it's a group, the group leader would need to require that people post a new song as a new discussion thread. Others posting their version of the same song would reply within that discussion, not start another new discussion for their version of the song. And some will post their version to the group's comment wall by accident- they'd have to be guided to post it in the proper song thread. Just some logistical thoughts.More ideas and opinions...?


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Flint Hill said:
One peripheral but significant question is this: Is it possible to obtain a permalink to an individual song that has been posted to FOTMD? The best I have been able to do is to get a permalink to a player showing all of my songs, so someone would have to pop the player and then scroll down to find the song. It would eliminate a lot of potential confusion if it's possible to get a direct link to an individual song.
You are right- that would be a slight issue. There is no way to have a direct link to a tune on FOTMD's Playlists. You *can* have a direct link to a video, but not to a sound clip in anyone's playlist. the best you can do is go to their page and click on the specified tune in their playlist.Ok, I just did a test.....


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts
I have still been confoozled about what would be the best way to go, not for lack of puzzled over it this weekend.I think a group is probably the way to go, but maybe it should be broader than a collection of "challenges". I also think that "challenge" is freighted or easily conflated with "contest", and I'm in agreement with others that this is not something we want. Not to mention the name collision with "challenged players".This might leave us with a "Sound Off" kind of group in which one flavor of discussion might be a "Turkey-in-the-Straw, post yours?", or going back to the original post, something like "Post your Jean Ritchie Song?".If that's an agreeable way to go, then we need a name for it:"You call the tune"."Sound Off"I am really lousy at thinking up names like this.One peripheral but significant question is this: Is it possible to obtain a permalink to an individual song that has been posted to FOTMD? The best I have been able to do is to get a permalink to a player showing all of my songs, so someone would have to pop the player and then scroll down to find the song. It would eliminate a lot of potential confusion if it's possible to get a direct link to an individual song.
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Yes, it's great that we've been posting our various thoughts on this.Ken, I would go along with whatever you decide to do here.If you want to make it a new group, i think that might be a nice way to keep it organized.If you want to make it a forum- then I can add a new forum category and each song 'project' could be its own thread I'd think.You decide, and I'll support it. :)


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Randy Adams
Randy Adams
@randy-adams
12 years ago
89 posts
Well Ken....I don't care about what it's called or the format.....as long as it's done in a welcoming and open-arms manner....& I'm sure it would be.....I'd play as long as I liked the song at hand. What tune are you thinkin' about?
Robin Thompson
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
12 years ago
1,250 posts
Ken, in a jam a person "calls" a tune. Flint Hill said:
I wanted to say thanks to all who replied. I am feeling sort of stumped and stupid right now -- just got in from a long day working in a pasture.

It does seem like "challenge" is the wrong word, and maybe the wrong concept, even. I'll post again after I've gotten some rest. :)
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts
I wanted to say thanks to all who replied. I am feeling sort of stumped and stupid right now -- just got in from a long day working in a pasture.It does seem like "challenge" is the wrong word, and maybe the wrong concept, even. I'll post again after I've gotten some rest. :)
folkfan
@folkfan
12 years ago
365 posts
It sounds as if it would fit into the Group category. A group whose main purpose is to have those involved play a tune and then ask "So how do you play it?" not as a contest, just as a general sharing of music. A "Play it again, Sam" group. If it was in the general posts then it would need it's own category to keep from being lost in other discussions. Sounds like an interesting idea.
Robin Thompson
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
12 years ago
1,250 posts
I like this idea for a couple of reasons. First, recording one's own play is helpful, instructive. Secondly, listening to the play of others is helpful, instructive. And it's all fun! One thing it'd be good to emphasize, even over-emphasize, is this format is the opposite of a contest; here, players of all levels (not just the best, the professionals, the contest winners, etc.) are encouraged to submit recording.It'd be neat to have a thread where, say, there'd been a 'Pretty Saro' music challenge and one could hear ten different people play (or play & sing) 'Pretty Saro".
Randy Adams
Randy Adams
@randy-adams
12 years ago
89 posts
Sound Off is a discussion area where people post their tunes. http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=10 Strumelia said:
Randy is that done within a "Sound Off" group , or is "Sound Off" a forum /discussion area?
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Randy is that done within a "Sound Off" group, or is "Sound Off" a forum/discussion area?


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Randy Adams
Randy Adams
@randy-adams
12 years ago
89 posts
At the banjohangout in the Sound Off section occasionally someone will post a tune and ask "Post Yours?" They do it like this for example.Turkey in the Straw Post Yours?It was a real popular thing for a few years, haven't been so many lately....mostly the clawhammer players. It was just an informal thing.Everyone from beginners to pros would post their version of the tune and people were very encouraging, helpful and complimentary.It wasn't competitive at all...or a "challenge."
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
12 years ago
2,019 posts
Ken I think this is a great idea. :)We'd have to figure out how to best implement it.I would heartily back it if you wanted to start a new FOTMD Group for this.But to avoid it getting confused with Vicki's group "Challenged Players" I'd ask that you name it perhaps "FOTMD Music Challenge" or something to that effect- that should make it clear enough.If you started such a group, as you say you would have to have some sort of control over people just posting challenge after challenge of all their favorite songs. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way for a group creator to review or moderate other group members' posts before they are submitted. So some form of challenge rules would have to be spelled out by the group creator in a text box right on the group's home page. You might want to have a separate group 'discussion thread' for each official challenge. In groups, people sometimes start posting on the group's Comment wall rather than in the appropriate discussion, simply because they don't know any better, so that would be a small issue as well.The other option as opposed to forming a Group is to just keep it as discussions on the main FOTMD forums. This might work if I set up a new FORUM CATEGORY for "FOTMD music challenges", and then folks could set up each challenge as a new discussion. Of course this would mean there'd be a whole bunch of challenges to choose from after a while, with really no control over it to keep it structured. Plus, there'd be a limited text description under that forum that no one would see if they went directly to each challenge discussion from the Latest Activity on the main page. There would be less control in a forum setting than a group setting, but less work as well.More input and ideas from everyone?.....


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Flint Hill
Flint Hill
@flint-hill
12 years ago
62 posts


"Challenges" are some of the most popular activities on Flickr, a photography-sharing site that I visit every day, and I wonder if doing song/tune challenges might be fun on FOTMD?

A Flickr challenge is a discussion topic in which someone invites other photographers to submit a photograph on a particular topic or using a particular technique.

An example of an FOTMD challenge might look like this.


Jean Ritchie Challenge: Record a public-domain song or tune that Jean Ritchie has recorded at some point in her career. Audio, video, as well as newly performed and archival performances are welcome. Use the playing style of your choice (e.g. chordal or melody-drone). Record an instrumental or accompany yourself singing. There are no restrictions on key, tuning, or mode. The only additonal requirement is that you play and sing it yourself. Please submit entries by##/##/2010.


Flickr experience suggests that it is best to get an administrator's approval before posting challenges to a subject-oriented group.

Most challenges don't have a contest format with voting, winners and losers. People just post their own efforts and comment on those of other posters.

Flickr people describe challenges as being a lot of fun and as great motivators.

I wonder if there would be interest in challenges here on FOTMD?

(Edited this to shorten it.)


updated by @flint-hill: 02/17/19 06:25:20PM