Forum Activity for @dusty

Wild looking instrument.  Thanks for sharing that, Robin.

John, I just created a couple of screenshots to demonstrate the process.  There are only 5 easy steps.  Check out the discussion I just created in the Site Questions Forum .

There are 5 steps to creating a new discussion with a Group.

1) Join the Group.

2) Click the "+" sign at the far right of the Discussion Forum banner.

3) Choose a brief but descriptive title for your Discussion.  Try to imagine someone scanning through discussions a year from now and make sure you title would adequately convey the content.

4) Write a more complete description of the discussion.

5) Click "Create New Discussion."

See the two screenshots below.

Hey just an idea, people, but we have the Call the Tune Group which was intended for people to share different versions of the same tune.  Someone (John? Gordon?) could start a thread on music for Lent and have people contribute different tunes.  That way all those tunes could be found in one convenient place.

It's indeed a striking collaboration.  Thanks for sharing this, Robin.

For those who like enjoy this kind of east-west mashup, you might be interested in the recent Smithsonian Folkways album by Wu Fei and Abigail Washburn and produced by Bela Fleck.  Here is a live performance of one of the tunes, which has no dulcimer, unfortunately, but some wonderful singing as well as soothing banjo and guzheng:

@Traildad, you are making a false assumption that a note using an upper case letter always refers to a note below middle C.  I tune my baritone dulcimer GDg. All of those notes are below middle C.  I use the lower case g to indicate that the string is an octave above the bass string. I also have an octave baritone dulcimer, meaning it is tuned an octave above that baritone, and I still indicate the tuning as GDg even though only the low G is below middle C and the D and high g are above it.  I also have octave dulcimers that I often tune DAd, but all those notes are above middle C.

In other words, the use of the upper and lower case letters shows how the notes relate to each other, not how they relate to some objective standard like a piano.

There are ways to indicate exactly which octave on the piano a given tone is from, but almost none of us bother with that.

Strumelia's blog was not specifically about string gauge, but she does mention that she stopped using a wound bass string and only used string gauges around .10 or .11.  The blog post is about how she gets to the main 4 keys of C, D, G, and A with two dulcimers, one that can tune to C and D and one that can tune to G and A.

If all you want to know is what octaves one uses for 1-5-5 tunings in those four keys . . .

C-G-G would usually be C3-G3-G3

D-A-A would usually be D3-A3-A3

G-D-D would be either G2-D3-D3 (as a baritone) or G3-D4-D4 (as a 3/4-size instrument like a Ginger)

A-E-E would be either A2-E3-E3 (as a baritone) or A3-E4-E4 (as a 3/4-size instrument)

Of all those notes, only the D4 and E4 are above middle C.

The Strothers String Gauge Calculator suggests strings of .023 for A and .016 for E on a dulcimer with a 30 inch VSL and .026 and .018 for G and D.  You might try .024 and .017 and feel comfortable tuning to both.  You will be tuning to the G and A below the standard D tuning.

@Traildad, you are looking for a standard dulcimer (tuned D or C) and a baritone dulcimer (tuned G or A).  This is not a complicated proposition and there is no trouble changing tunings in the 1 or 2 note range that you discuss as long as you have the right string gauge. I have dulcimers in those two tonal ranges and switch between those keys all the time.  Not a problem.

I am not sure what you mean by a "specialty noter drone dulcimer" unless you mean one with partial frets that only sit underneath the melody string.  

You have the 1-5-5 tunings correct.  If you are tuned to A,  a 1-5-5 tuning is A-E-E.  In G, it would be G-D-D.  I am sure you can find the right string gauge to be able to go back and forth between those two keys.  

In D, a 1-5-5 tuning is D-A-A and in C it is C-G-G.  Again, you can find the right string gauges that will allow you to switch back and forth.  That will not be a problem.

However, you will not be able to move between A-E-E and D-A-A on the same set of strings.  I assume you understand this and that is why you want two dulcimers in two tonal ranges.

If you have the right gauge string to start with, you should be able to go up or down a note with no problem.  On my standard dulcimer I often tune down to C and occasionally up to E, so all three strings are moving between two whole steps.

For a high D string and a 30" VSL, the Strothers String Gauge calculator suggests a .009, and for the C below that, a .010.  That gauge errs on the light side, so a .010 should easily work for either.  For the A, it recommends a .012 and for the G a .013.  Again, you could use either, but I would go with the .013.

It's wonderful that this has been preserved.  Notice that the dulcimer is not repeating the melody as Jon sings but playing a counter melody/harmony part to accompany the singing.  It is not easy to play like that since it's carrying two melodies at once.

Thanks for sharing this, Ken.

@dan, I was wondering the same thing, but I don't think it is the same instrument.  The one that was auctioned off had a flat head, not a scroll head.  You can see the listing here .

Cool!

Sorry to hear about your friend, @lisavb.

Glad to hear about your house.  We had a similar accident a few years ago.  A massive limb from a 75-year-old oak tree fell down, only barely grazing the gutter on the corner of our house.  I couldn't even tell that the roof had not been damaged until the next day when I was able to remove all the branches from up there.  But the front yard was completely filled with branches and leaves. From the street, you couldn't even see the house.  It just looked like a chimney sticking out of a massive piles of green leaves and brown wood. I was so lucky that my neighbor was a gardener who had just retired.  He showed up with his chain saws and the two of us worked for a couple of days until the yard was clear.  Then it took another year for the lawn to come back since it was entirely covered in saw dust. But at least the house was OK.

A major bright side for me is extra time with my teenage daughter.  In normal times the last thing she would want to do is hang out with her parents, especially now that she and her friends are getting their drivers licenses.  But we spend lots of time together every day; I'm grateful for that.

I've also gotten to know dulcimer players from around the country in Zoom gatherings of various sorts.  My "local" dulcimer group is no longer local as about half of the attendees each month are from all over the country.

Still haven't learned to sew, though.

Here in California, vaccines are available (in theory) to anyone 65 and over.  But I think that's group 1B, whereas 1A are the frontline healthcare workers and those in assisted living facilities, and they haven't even gotten to all of them yet.  But the next group is those over 50, so I'm hopeful that within a couple of months both my wife and I will be able to get the vaccine.  Plans are already being made for mass vaccination sites in the parking lots of sports arenas, where you'll drive in and get the shot right in your car.  Like drive-through fast food.

And I won't brag that we have two orange trees bursting with fruit here.  The biggest one is a navel orange tree on my neighbor's property, but it's about 30 feet tall and he can't possibly eat all its fruit. Every week or so we go over with a ladder and pick a bunch.  We have a smaller tree of valencia oranges, which are harder to peel and better for juicing. We also have tons of meyers lemons this time of year.  Those are a cross between lemons and mandarin oranges, and have an almost tangerine-like sweetness.  They make the best lemonade.  For some reason, my lime tree fruits earlier, so there's nothing left now, although all three trees flower at the same time.  

Welcome to FOTMD, @nateprentice.  You might try using a strap on your dulcimer. If you keep the strap tight enough, you have a lot more control over the positioning of the instrument on your lap and don't rely on your lap as much.

John, you're right that since tab has the lower notes up higher and the higher notes down lower it can be confusing for those of us who learned to read standard music notation. When I teach newbies I remind them that if you just lay tab flat in front of you, the three lines are in the same order as the strings on your dulcimer, so it's not as unintuitive as you might think at first. What's reversed is the dulcimer itself.

Most of the tab these days has both standard music notation and dulcimer tablature, so you can see the relationships between them.  I try to envision that kind of tab as bookmatched wood, as though they are mirrors of each other.

Yes, TablEdit does automatically what you are talking about.  When you put the tab into TablEdit, the software automatically identifies the corresponding notes in standard music notation.  If you don't care about saving files, you could download the free version of TablEdit.  The free versions just limits you to 16 measures or something like that.  BUt you could always print out a song and then start over, using the free version forever.

But I'm not the best person to answer your question. I can use tab or standard music notation as a reminder of how a song goes, but when I play I can't follow either one. I have to look at the fretboard and play by ear.  I can't really sight read very well at all, though that's a skill I greatly admire.

Indeed, I have treasured FOTMD since I discovered this site as a friendly, encouraging oasis in the social media desert of mean-spirited ridicule.  This is a place where all are welcome, where we can share our love of this oddly-shaped instrument with too few strings and too few frets, and where, by eschewing anger and aggression, we implicitly celebrate our shared humanity. We are, as the name of the site explains, friends.

That's pretty cool, James. And if you take it rafting, you can always use it as an oar, too!

I have a couple of ukes, but I have to confess that I rarely play them.

Check out the capo FOTMD member @martin-oesterle made to play this fun tune.

There are at least a couple of builders who do not glue the fretboard to the soundboard at all. My octave dulcimer by David Beede has the fretboard screwed into the dulcimer with three metal dowels, but it sits entirely about 1/4 inch above the soundboard. His logic is that the top is free to vibrate that way. And I think FOTMD member @bob-stephens also makes dulcimers with floating fretboards.  In this discussion he specifically says that his "fretboards don't touch the top."  I think he also uses metal bolts to attach the fretboard to the dulcimer and allow it to sit above the soundboard.

Terry's capo is a modification of the Spider capo. And he offers a version with a D'Addario tuner attached to it.  It's a nice idea, especially if you have room left of the nut to leave it attached when you're not using it.  That way you have a tuner and capo always available.  If I didn't already have a bunch of capos and a bunch of tuners I would probably get one.

I've heard of tactile position markers on the back or top of the neck on guitars, so that you can feel with your hand where you are on the fretboard, but I've never seen anything like that on the fingerboard itself.

Yes, you can have fancy decorative inlay work on a fretboard.  And you can also have fret markers.  Those are clearly two different things. 

Obviously, decorative fretboards are pretty.  (Don't we all love that long-stem red rose on the Blue Lions?)  And if the decoration varies up and down the fretboard, then it might serve the purpose of fret marks, but only for the owner.  Anyone else grabbing that instrument for the first time would have no idea what's going on.  That's why there are standards.  The standard fret marking pattern of 3, 5, and 7, means that I can borrow anyone's instrument--or switch among the several that I own--and know at a glance where I am on the fretboard, even if there are one or two extra frets.  That obvious advantage cannot be overstated.  If one of my instruments were marked at 3, 5, and 7 and another at 2, 4, and 6, and another at 1+, 3, and 4, those fret markers would lose their purpose and would have to be ignored altogether.  They would confuse rather than clarify.

So that brings us back to the original post, which was about the proper placement of fret markers, not decorative inlay.  An individual player can request fret markers anywhere s/he wishes.  Fret markers do not change the sound of an instrument.  But anything other than the standard pattern would confuse anyone else.  I would strongly urge luthiers to either use no fret markers or use the standard pattern, unless, of course, they are responding to a specific request for a custom dulcimer.  And again, for a diatonic fretboard, there is no need for fret markers anyway since the pattern of whole and half steps tells you exactly where you are on the fretboard.

I personally would not be able to play with raised fret markers at all.  As you slide from one chord position to another, you need the fretboard to be as smooth as possible.  And even when not sliding, you want your touch on one fret to be identical to the touch on another fret.  There would be no way to play with any speed with an inconsistent touch on the fretboard.  There is a reason why everyone uses inlay both for fret markers and for decoration.

I once spent over $60 on a fancy brass capo that works almost as well as the $20 ones Ron Ewing has been selling for decades. No one said logic was my strongest attribute.

True, Ken.  Those are the octaves of the 3 and the 5.

I, too, find it interesting that there is no 8+.  I understand not adding the half frets on smaller scale instruments, since the frets get so small, but on a full-size dulcimer most people want the second octave to mirror the first.  There is a 13+ fret, after all.

Yes, that dulcimer has frets at 1+ and 6+.  But notice that the fret markers are still at 3, 5, and 7.

Soundin' good, Bob!

Sad news indeed. Ralph's knowledge of the evolution of the dulcimer far surpassed that of any else living or dead.  We will be forever in his debt for his publications on dulcimer history.

One could possibly come up with a reason to put a position dot anywhere. But since the point is to quickly recognize where you are on the fretboard, standardization is a benefit.  Since 3, 5, 7, & 10 are the most common places for such markers, anything else would risk confusion.

The fact is that with a diatonic fretboard there is no need for fret markers since the fret pattern clearly tells you where you are.  I have some dulcimers with no fret markers and have no trouble.  I have some marked at 3, 5, 7, & 10, and have no trouble.  But I woundn't even considering buying a dulcimer with frets marked elsewhere as that would just be confusing.

Looks beautiful!

Glad it worked out, traildad!

Nuts and bridges can be made from hard woods, bone, or the hard plastic resins such as Bakelite.  Nowadays, the hard plastics used are usually Tusq, Nubone, or Micarta. Maybe there are some other proprietary names of which I am unaware.  In general, people assume bone to be the best, and it's probably the most expensive, but some of my dulcimers use other materials and I have no complaints.  

You might consider posting in the Dulcimer Making Group for specific advice about tools and materials.

The "normal" tuning for a standard dulcimer tuned to a 1-5-8 pattern in C would be C3 G3 C4 since we usually list the tunings from the bass note to the melody note. (I don't know who made up that rule, but it's as logical as anything, I suppose.)

I would not assume that someone putting a .005 string on a dulcimer actually knew what they were doing. It could have just been whatever strings they had lying around or perhaps someone thinking lighter strings would be easier on their fingers. The strings that @nathina suggests from John Pearce are within a normal range for a full-size dulcimer (though still light for my preferences).

Indeed.  It looks from the notches in the bridge that it is set up for 4 equidistant strings and a double melody.  But those of us who want a three string set-up would have to make some adjustments.

Nice job, Nathina.  That dulcimer is really shining.

Now that I see the placement of the bridge, though, I fear there is insufficient room for those fine tuning beads.

This is my recommendation.  Record yourself playing in DAA.  Listen to it every time you eat really good food.  You will slowly train yourself to drool equally out of both sides of your mouth.  Get yourself a bib and the problem is solved!

But at least you have your stage name: Drooly Don Grundy.  It has a ring to it, doesn't it?  I would pay to see a band called Drooly Don Grundy and the Doughnut Holes, wouldn't you?

I heard a radio conversation with a physicist whose wife was a cellist.  He said that when he is working hard, his right arm pit sweats more than his left arm pit. But when his wife is working hard, it is the other way around.  The theory is that he was using the more analytic side of the brain, which controls the right side of the body, and his wife was using more the creative side of the brain, which controls the left side of the body.  Maybe you are experiencing something similar.

Actually, I suspect Strumelia is correct.  Because you are concentrating on what you're doing, you are not swallowing as often as you normally would.  I have the bad habit of holding my breath for really tough parts of a tune, and then you can hear me exhale deeply right afterwards. I've had to delete a lot of recordings for that reason.

That's a great description of both the design and function of these things, @ken-longfield.

@nathina, since you don't have a model to copy as Ken did, you might make a prototype out of some material that is easy to mold and re-mold.  Then when you get the precise design of something that should work, make final versions out of ebony or some hard wood. 

Nathina, a small number of luthiers used fine tuning beads on their dulcimers.  One was Keith Young.  Here is a discussion of someone replacing a missing one.  You can see that they require no serious modification of the instrument at all yet make those friction tuners a lot easier to use.  I think I remember a couple of other discussions here about fine tuners.  If I can dig them up I'll edit this comment and add the links.

EDIT:

Here's another discussion about fine tuner beads . 

And here's another in which I share a picture of an autoharp my uncle made with metal fine tuners for each string.  It was a prototype and we joked that it looks like the autoharp has braces.  On his new builds he puts a nice piece of wood on a swivel that covers the fine tuners.

That's definitely a cool project, Nathina. I second the motion to make sure you take some "before" pictures so we can see the work you do.

While it is true that few people today enjoy friction tuners, you might pause before replacing them with modern geared tuners.  Once an instrument is "vintage" there is certainly an interest in maintaining it's original construction.  Then again, if you want to play the instrument regularly, by all means make it your own.  A compromise might be to install fine tuners behind the bridge if the design allows.