Forum Activity for @ken-hulme

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Well, bill, I don't know from A C D D# ... but if you tune the melody string to A, and don't get a reasonably clean do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti, do scale when fretting up from the 3rd fret to 10th fret, there's not much you can do except wall hang it as a unique piece of folk art. I'd hate to mess up that nice carving on the fretboard by taking out frets and re-setting them at different locations.

"...don't know what to do with the scale..." Huh? If it sounds good, you play it -- after you lower the action about a foot and a half . All that will take is some serious sanding and re-cutting of string notches. Nothing wrong with a 24"-25" VSL. You can still tune it DAA, but you'll want to check a string gauge chart to make sure your've got appropriate gauges.

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I have attached pictures of the Bridge and tailpiece. Both the Bridge and Tailpiece were floating but I put them back exactly where they were. It has a short VSL of only 24 3/8". It sounds fine to me in open tuning but I just do not know what to do with that scale.

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Here are some more photos of the front of the headstock and the Fretboard

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I finally found the time to work on this old dulcimer. Since it was plywood I felt comfortable using Murphy's Oil Soap and I think it came out ok. I used WD-40 on the tuning gears and it loosened them right up. The only problem was that the screws holding the gears to the head piece were stripped. When I tried to re-string the tuners pulled away from the head piece. I replaced the screws and that seemed to take care of that.

My main concerns now are with the fret scale and height of the strings above the frets. I tuned the open strings to DAA but the melody line runs a scale of A C D D# F G A B D E F# G# C# D# F#. I am wondering if my dulcimer is just intoned or just out of tune? As I said earlier this dulcimer is a 40 year old reproduction of an earlier dulcimer. The Fretboard is only one inch wide. The strings sit high off the fretboard and it came with a monster sized noter. I think it was meant to be played noter drone but I really don't know if it is playable. HELP! I attached some photos.

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Here are it's measurements.Overall length 36"Scale Length bridge to nut 24 3/8"Width of fretboard 1"Length of fretboard 21 1/4"Width of soundbox at widest 5"Depth of soundbox 1 5/8"What do these measurements tell us?

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Definitely not a kit! What an unusual design. So much body aft of the bridge, and such a large single sound hole. Very interesting. I hope you can eventually post a sound cut so we can hear it.

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Here are some pictures. As soon as I got it I used a slightly damp papertowelto get the heaviest dust off. It is still pretty dusty, especially in the crevices along the fret board. The board is decorated with a floral design the builder told me he hand burned into the wood.

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for the input. I am trying to upload some pictures but they are on my iPad and I see the uploader requires flash. I will send them to my computer and upload later. Its my understanding that the fellow made it from scratch. That it was not a kit. He copied it from an older wooden one he had at the time but is long since gone. I can't wait to clean it and restring it. Even with the old rusted out of tune strings it has a nice loud sound coming out of the sound box for a narrow dulcimer. I am going to measure it and put its measurements in a later post.

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

That old? Yeah, I think a mild Murphy's solution wetting a rag to wipe with, and then wipe dry, would be just fine. Not sure you'd need lemon oil after though... And a dab of 3-in-1 in the gears, if they are open or you can remove the covers, will not hurt anything either. Show us a picture. I'll bet it's an old Hughes kit; they were pretty good kit instruments back in the day. That's what I started with about 40 years ago. Sure wish I still had it...

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Bill, not being able to see the instrument, I'd put just a little lemon oil on the tuning gears as well. Don't hurry them, let them soak a day or so, reapply then try them gently. If the strings are old, you might catch them off some way and cut them to relieve the tension on the tuning gears. That might help too.

How to restore old dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I just acquired a 40 yr old plywood dulcimer. The prior owner made it when he was 14 and played it for awhile but it has been hanging on his wall unplayed for at least 30 years. It needs a thorough cleaning. It is covered in dust. I read the other postings about cleaners. It seems to me that for a dulcimer as dirty as mine Murphy's Oil Soap followed by lemon oil will take car of the dust. What do you more experienced people think?The other immediate problem is that the tuning gears are frozen. Can I use a little 3in1 oil on them or is there something different I should use?
updated by @bill-hall: 02/09/25 07:34:58PM

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks Ivan, I interepted that fom the Korg site. My bad.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Actually, Skip, the Seiko tuners give the octave number before the note and both the SAT 501 and SAT 800 are definitely chromatic tuners. I'm aware that the 'dedicated' tuners for guitar, bass, etc., give the string number before the note but note first then octave number is definitely not universal on chromatics.

Skip said:

ff;

did the readout have the number before or after the note? If the number was before it is a dedicated tuner, like a guitar orukulele tuner. The number then represents a string.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I went to the Korg site and didn't see any other than the 120. I may have missed it or maybe it was an older model.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

The number was after as in D3, D4.

Skip said:

ff;

did the readout have the number before or after the note? If the number was before it is a dedicated tuner, like a guitar orukulele tuner. The number then represents a string.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Tuning forks are less than ideal. I have never seen a set of them, but who could afford them if there were several octaves? And the weight would make me leave them home! There are online tuners you can use free of charge, if you don't have one. Great at home, but not so good if you don't carry a computer every where you go. A lot of guitar amps are now coming with built in tuners, but your best bet is still a clip on vibration sensing tuner. Tuning by ear in a group, or a noisy saloon or jam session is rough for experienced players. For a beginner, it has to be painful. The one I reach for most is a Crafters TG200H. It's small, clips on the headstock of most of my instruments, and ignores the noodling going on all around me. I also have a Korg CA 30,and a Boss TU 15. They are good tuners, but don't clip on, and rely on built in mics to hear the instrument. They work well at home where I'm in a quiet environment, or with a clip mic, or plugged into an electric instrument. They aren't as convenient with instruments that need a new tuning every several songs. The clip on stays on the instrument, ready for me to change tunings. Except on one dulcimer, with a carved head that the tuner doesn't fit! Chromatic is the only kind I want, as I use multiple tunings, so a "one tuning " model isn't practical.

Paul

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

ff;

did the readout have the number before or after the note? If the number was before it is a dedicated tuner, like a guitar orukulele tuner. The number then represents a string.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks, Ivan. That eliminates the Korg CA-1 as a possible suspect (or purchase).

Ivan Bradley said:

In reply to folkfan, I have a Korg CA-1 and, no, it doesn't show the octave reference for the note.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Never had a tuning fork, but still have the pitch pipe that I had to have for my college music theory class. Never could get it to register correctly as I tend to be a blow hard type. The tin or penny whistle was an instrument I tried to play once upon a time and had trouble getting the right notes on it too. And there is the added disadvantage in that I couldn't sing while playing it. So I could never remember the tune I wanted to play.

Robin Clark said:

BTW - whatever happened to tuning forks

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

In reply to folkfan, I have a Korg CA-1 and, no, it doesn't show the octave reference for the note.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Looks like folks could have a whale of a time with this and be doing it on porpoise, including bass and drum players.

I have a Peterson Flip[per], it's nice but pretty sensitive. Also, it's better for the shop because it'skind of big.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ken has been a victim of body snatching. The soul of Shecky Green now inhabits his corpse.

Just remember, you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

Oh look at me; I'm fishin' for a joke and I'm flounderin'.

But every sole in heaven believes in cod.

Don't blame me; Ken started it.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Those are Tuna Forks, Robin, used when one eats Tuna, not Tuning. With Tuning you use chopsticks, of course.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Electronic tuners are a great help. Particularly those that work on vibration as they are a Godsend on stage or in pub sessions. But most of them are not key accurate (some of the Paterson tuners have settings for various keys) and therefore on many key tuned instruments the tuners are off-pitch beyond the root note. I would suggest tuning the fretted root note on the melody string with your tuner and then tuning the other strings by ear from that note. You can use a tuner to get close but the final tweek really needs to be by ear.

I had a fun tuning 'moment' at a gig yesterday. Nick asked for a C chord to tune his guitar to before kicking off on a bluegrass tune. So I played the chord on my dobro for him, which of course doesn't have any frets at all

BTW - whatever happened to tuning forks

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I, too have a Seiko SAT 501. Yes, I like the "cents off" feature, too, and it does differentiate the exact pitch of notes spanning the entire 88 keys of the piano. I can't remember what I paid, but I think it was about $20.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Skip, It isn't the Korg-OT-120 or a Peterson. The name Peterson didn't ring a bell at all with my poor old wandering brain.

Ken, I like the cents off feature on the Seiko SAT501 and I'll have to see about that.

Does anyone have a Korg CA1? And if you do, does it show the number for the octave. All the pictures I've seen of the screen on the CA-1 simply shows an A, but not it's position as A1, A2, etc. The Korg GA1 for guitars seems to be pictured showing the octave number.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

FF I bought one recently, a Seiko SAT501. I think I paid $16 for mine before shipping, although you'll see them listed for over $25. Check Ebay and Amazon. I like this one because it not only shows you which octave, but has an audio signal as well.

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

This it? Peterson makes one also.

http://www.amazon.com/Korg-OT-120-Octave-Chromatic-Orchestral/dp/B0...

Electronic tuners

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Recently at a festival, I was helping a young boy tune his new instrument. He'd had a really nice tuner, but I didn't write the company's name down. I think it was Korg, but can't remember. What I liked about this tuner is that it gave a pitch reference. Instead of just listing D, it gave D3, D4, A3, A4, etc and it was chromatic. Does anyone have a similar tuner??? All of mine, new and old, including the Korg CA-30 just say A,B,C,D,E, etc.

So I've go a tuner that knows is ABC's, now I want one that counts, too.

updated by @folkfan: 06/11/15 07:30:36AM

Congratulations Lottie! I think that the thrill of making music on something you have put sweat, tears,and sometimes blood into, lol, gives one a great buzz ! Looking forward to your pics !

JohnH

Sorry john, I should have said so!! I have of course used other types of finish on instruments over the years (egg whites?) but seem to have settled on the method I have described for its speed, ease in use, and a finish which goes on improving as it ages. You have handled some of the results!

best wishes

John

(was that bookshop signing story true...........?)

Thanks for the explaination John.

Sounds like what I know as button polish, but without the stain in it.

john p

With that many cats, you might as well leave the dulcimer bare. You'll never get through the house without having fur all over you.You may be building the first dulcimer with it's own fur coat!

Paul

Exactly what I would do Lottie ! More power to yer elbow !

John

Lottie Miller said:

You could always use one or two coats of shellac, to seal the wood, rub it down with wire wool and use a wax as a finish it will have a smooth, matte sort of finish. This is my first one though, but I've used beeswax on other wood projects in the past and it had lovely results, a really subtle lustre, and it smelled good too.

john p said:

I've got one to do at the moment.

Flame Maple (Like the one in the FOTMD banner), bare wood.

Any reccommendations ?

I'm not keen on very shiney finishes so french polish is out.
I've used Tung/Danish oil before, which is semi gloss. It's not as labourious as French polish, but can take a fortnight to complete.

john p

Ken Hulme said:

"Suitable preparation" - hire three guys at 50 pounds per hour, eight hour minimum.

I like tung oil as a non-glossary finish - takes about 4-5 coats over a day or two.....

Ken, if that is a serious comment, you must have more money than I had thought!!! Sorta like me getting in three guys to cook me up a B- be- Q ??? Surely suitable preparation must be something that is as applicable to cooking as to anything that requires a certain outcome ?' Horses for courses I suppose, but after a long time of working and finishing wood I am always ready to concede when someone can offer a better method than the one I am used to ?

My regards

JohnH

john, if you still have 'ripple marks' from planer or whatever, no matter what you put 'on top', they are still there ? 'Sand and Seal' describes a process exactly, get rid of surface imperfections (sand) and then (seal) to provide an impervious surface. Easy to describe and easy to execute, IMO ?

John

john p said:

Thanks both, I'll look into that.

I don't like the way you put suitable preparation in italics John Henry, whats involved here.

Never come across 'sand and seal', is it the same sort of thing as button polish ?

john p

"Suitable preparation" - hire three guys at 50 pounds per hour, eight hour minimum.

I like tung oil as a non-glossary finish - takes about 4-5 coats over a day or two.....

Thanks both, I'll look into that.

I don't like the way you put suitable preparation in italics John Henry, whats involved here.

Never come across 'sand and seal', is it the same sort of thing as button polish ?

john p

After suitable preparation , two or three coats of 'Sand and Seal' ( shellac based) , light rub with 0000 grade wire wool between coats to remove nibs, use the same used wire wool to apply a good qualitiy paste wax, buff with soft duster, and repeat until desired finish is achieved. Almost instant, more or less fool proof, (depending on the care exercised during preparation), almost instantly renewable, and completly natural looking , IMO ! ( I use 'Liberon products)

JohnH

I've got one to do at the moment.

Flame Maple (Like the one in the FOTMD banner), bare wood.

Any reccommendations ?

I'm not keen on very shiney finishes so french polish is out.
I've used Tung/Danish oil before, which is semi gloss. It's not as labourious as French polish, but can take a fortnight to complete.

john p