Forum Activity for @ken-hulme

John - most Galax set up players don'ty try for anything except Galax tunings: ddd or ggg etc. As you've discovered those thin strings just aren't suitable for more common Modal tunings. Now you know why so many of us have multiple dulcimers. If I were you. I think I'd opt for a second dulcimer in cardboard. Leave that one with conventional strings.

Check out whatever local hobby shops there are where you live - especially those dealing in model airplanes. They will have 1/8" Baltic Birch ply, which makes really good sounding dulcimers. Using the Fretboard from a cardboard dulcimer, you can surely make a box shaped dulcimer for under $25.

Barbara, I was playing strictly in a flatpicking style but then bought a used Blue Lion from another member of FOTMD. I played it a little bit and really liked it, but one day I stroked the strings gently with my finger and the instrument just rang true. It sounds good with a flatpick, but really special with a soft fingerstyle technique. I began learning to fingerpick simply to do right by that instrument. And of course trying to fingerpick my six-string baritone dulcimette would be like fingerpicking a mandolin. Oh, maybe you could kinda sorta do it a little, but why?

Some instruments might really be versatile, but others so obviously want to be in a particular tuning or played with a certain technique that it's nice to honor those ideosyncracies. I gave up trying to play bluegrass guitar and mandolin with the accompanying obsession with playing lots of notes as fast as possible, and now my philosophy with the dulcimer is that if you have a nice sounding instrument, highlight that instrument. Pick or strum a little, let the notes ring out, and get out of the way.

Barbara P said:

Uh oh, Dusty Turtle, you're making me think that I need a designated fingerpicking dulcimer too! I sure love the way those Blue Lions look! (I see trouble ahead! LOL!) And a baritone - another type of dulcimer I sorely need!

Mandy, Usually one develops DAD or DAA which are Dulcimer Acquisition Disease, or Dulcimer Acquisition Addiction. And if you develop DAD, buy two dulcimers and call me in the morning. Or if you end up with DAA, just feed your habit.

Mandy said:

Hey Barbara,

My take on this is a little different actually. I want one of everything! By that I mean lots of different instruments. After I got my first banjo I realized within a year that it was going to stick and I needed to upgrade. So I upgraded when i could and sold off my first one to help pay for my new dulcimer. I'm getting my very own guitar as an anniversary present from my husband . Now I figure all I need is an upright bass, fiddle, and maybe a mando and I'll be all set!

I've seen this affliction you speak of called BAS (banjo acquisition syndrome) in banjo circles, MAS (mandolin acquisition syndrome) in mando circles and I suppose it's the same here DAS (dulcimer acquisition syndrome). But mine would be called IAS I guess (instrument acquisition syndrome). LOL. The great thing about any of them is that once you start playing a musical instrument you have so much fun you want MORE.

All I know is, one is NOT enough. One of these days....

Oh, and I don't even have a baritone dulcimer, so I need to add just one more . . .

I have only one for now, but I have started building a I will end up number two. If I am not careful I will have as many as I have guitars, Ok I don't have a lot of Guitars just six.

Great point there Dusty. I didn't think about that and it's true. Uh oh now you've done it. I may need a few more........

Mandy, I know what you mean, and for that reason I have a guitar, a 12-string guitar, a mandolin, a ukulele, an autoharp, a fiddle, . . .

But, I now have several dulcimers and to me they are all different instruments. I have dulcimers in at least three tonal ranges, one a true octave dulcimer and another tuned a fourth of fifth above a standard dulcimer, the latter of which has six strings and is really good for fast-paced fiddle tunes in G or A. And even my standard dulcimers seem like different instruments. The Blue Lion is clearly intended for fingerpicking, not only because it just sounds great that way but also because the wider neck makes fingerpicking easier on the right hand.I use another dulcimer entirely for flatpicking, in part because it's neck is more narrow, but also because it has a 1-1/2 fret . . .

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Just because I have several instruments that are all called dulcimers, does not mean they are all identical. In fact, they are as different as a guitar and mandolin. And even among those of us without the disposable income to buy dulcimers just for fun, the differences among dulcimers become more obvious the more you play and you come to see them as genuinely different instruments intended for different tunings, styles of play, etc.

Mandy said:

Hey Barbara,

My take on this is a little different actually. I want one of everything! By that I mean lots of different instruments.

Hey Barbara,

My take on this is a little different actually. I want one of everything! By that I mean lots of different instruments. After I got my first banjo I realized within a year that it was going to stick and I needed to upgrade. So I upgraded when i could and sold off my first one to help pay for my new dulcimer. I'm getting my very own guitar as an anniversary present from my husband . Now I figure all I need is an upright bass, fiddle, and maybe a mando and I'll be all set!

I've seen this affliction you speak of called BAS (banjo acquisition syndrome) in banjo circles, MAS (mandolin acquisition syndrome) in mando circles and I suppose it's the same here DAS (dulcimer acquisition syndrome). But mine would be called IAS I guess (instrument acquisition syndrome). LOL. The great thing about any of them is that once you start playing a musical instrument you have so much fun you want MORE.

I've only ever posted two videos here - BanksoftheBann and RosintheBeau. I didn't like them... the viddedo/audio sync was terrible. Got a better way to do it now, using my digital camera's video mode, but just haven't taken the time. I'll have to post some more one of these days.

Where do we find your playing Ken.

Do you record at all ?

john p

N ah, Jim... I'm still playin' Noter & Drone. I've always been a bit shifty - willin' to re-tune that is

Ken, You're correct as to Bagpipe tuning allowing for Mixolydian and Ionian playing without worrying about the key. I just used the key of C for an example since that's how I learned to tune all modes way back when. Glad you're enjoying playing in Bagpipe. Have you tried barring across all the strings with the noter? One book I have suggests this style of play to "bang out the melody good and loud". Doesn't sound like it would be good for all songs, but might suit "Bonnie Dundee" very well and other tunes of that ilk.

Ken Hulme said:

Regardless of key (C, D, A, G) Bagpipe tuning does - for those of us without 6+ frets - what DAd tuning does for those with the 6+. It lets us play both Mixolydian and Ionian tunes without re-tuning, and sounds pretty darn good with both.

I've been a DAA/Ionian Modal tuning player for darn near 40 years. Just recently I've taken to exploring Bagpipe tuning, and I must say I'm really hooked.

Regardless of key (C, D, A, G) Bagpipe tuning does - for those of us without 6+ frets - what DAd tuning does for those with the 6+. It lets us play both Mixolydian and Ionian tunes without re-tuning, and sounds pretty darn good with both.

I've been a DAA/Ionian Modal tuning player for darn near 40 years. Just recently I've taken to exploring Bagpipe tuning, and I must say I'm really hooked.

Jim,

Since I've a dulcimer strung for Ccc, I don't have problems with retuning. Talk about lazy. Also with Ccc, I can play Mixolydian starting from the open (c) or Ionian from 3 (f). The Cc drones sound ok with both since CGc has a C drone and the key of F also has a C drone with FCC. With F there just isn't a tonic drone in F.

Just a thought on Bagpipe is that Ccc must have been popular at one time since the very oldest or earliest printed books I borrowed from the library usually discussed Bagpipe tuning in the key of C. Of course, all tunings were discussed in C, with Ionian mentioned first. Unison drones weren't mentioned. I learned about Galax tuning from the internet forums.

Jim Edwards said:

Ccc bagpipe tuning? I bet that sounds cool.

Of course, if you're lazy like me and don't want to replace your middle string (and assuming, like me, that you only have one melody string), you could probably tune CGc and finger-noter the middle string for a similar effect. Also, if you need that flatted seventh (Mixolydian mode), you could probably tune DGd and have a droning fifth instead of a droning root note. I bet that would sound cool, too.

Cheers,

Jim

Even Careful !! sorry

Now, now, Jim, carefu , Barbara may still be with us ! And Johnp,the fish are rising well tonight, no need to make a big stink about iT LOL

JohnH

I'm told that the Epinette des Camembert makes a good cheese grater

john p

Just an associated thought ? Jim, have you tried slicing cucumber with the 'other' ? (and it makes a great camping 'breakfast' table when turned upside down? )

JohnH

Folkfan's right Barbara - Bagpipe tuning has the same bass string D as DAA or DAd. The other strings are tuned tuned to the d of DAd - that is Ddd, not DDD. We most often use the lowercase d or c or whatever to indicate that it is an octave higher in pitch than the bass string, which is why you see us write DAd not DAD.

Barbara, There are two tunings that use a single note across the strings. One is called "Unison" as in dddd and is also used for the Galax style of playing. I've heard the tuning also called "Galax". I've never tried this tuning, but have used the Bagpipe tuning which has an octave difference in the drones. The bass string being tuned one octave below the middle and melody strings. On my instrument I have it tuned Bass C below middle c and middle and melody at middle c.

Barbara P said:

Dusty Turtle

John, that is lovely that both you and your wife play! ANd it sounds like she's catching up with you in the dulcimer department!

folkfan, that just clicked with me. I had read something about the tunings 155, 158 etc. but now, your post makes sense. Tunings seem to be the hardest thing for me to understand. But explanations like yours, are slowly getting into my head! Thank you!

That's interesting Ken. I just learned about bagpipe tuning on this thread! I wonder how many instruments are just tuned to DAd or DAA and not given the opportunity to shine in, say DDD? Mine for example, it's only been tuned to four tunings, but maybe it's some other tuning it's longing to play? I am really starting to understand the individuality of instruments. I didn't see that before.

Barbara, I have 2 dulcimers, both have the same fret configuration, with the 1+, but each has its unique voice. I love playing dulcimer, but I also play many other fretted instruments. Guitar was and is still my first love. so, I have to spread out my $$$ to all my instruments. I currently have 13 instruments. Barbara, btw, I bought a custom Deluxe Olympia Walkabout Dulcimer about a year ago and absolutely love it. If you search YouTube for Curtis Walkabout Dulcimer, you'll see it. Kevin (the builder) did a video of my instrument before shipping it out to me. He also sends you progress pictures of the build process. You should consider one. Being a guitar player, I love the guitar-style orientation of the Walkabout. I also love the challenge of playing dulcimer tab inverted.

All of my dulcimers get tuned to readily to a variety of tunings - Ionian, Mixolydian, Dorian, Aeolian. Sometimes in the key of D, other times in C or G. I have 3 single instruments and a courting dulcimer that I built close to ten years ago.

None of my instruments have 6+ frets. I prefer pure diatonic arrangements for the kinds of music I prefer to play - Scots Border Ballads and Corries type folk tunes, Irish folk music not fiddle tunes, American popular music from the 1890s to 1940s and '60s Folk Revival tunes.

Each instrument that I own tunes most comfortably in a particular keynote and sometimes tuning. My Nik Hambas custom prefers D in particular the Bagpipe tuning - Ddd. My vintage Ebay find sounds like crap in D but is sweet, high and silvery in Gdd. My slightly custom Harpmaker Student model loves D but prefers D Ionian - DAA, and the courting dulcimer likes any Modal tuning in the key of C.

Carrie, You do know don't you that any tab you have in a DAd tabbing can be played in the same note relationship in another key. So tab for DAd is CGc, or AEa. It's the same for DAA tab played CGG, or AEE etc. Since I can't sing high, I don't even have a dulcimer tuned in D, but use DAd or DAA tab all the time as everyone seems to automatically tab in it.

Carrie Barnes said:

Barb, well, I started on my Apple Creek which has now been officially retired due to the arrival of the McSpadden, on the horizon is their bass model and a dulcibanjo. Hmm, festival coming up, wonder if acquisitions are to be made there, LOL!'

I don't think there is a certaing number I want, "all" would be a good answer, just cause it would be nice not to retune. Tho happily at DADD, I want to explore other tunings, and have collected tab for CGC, AEA, the list is endless. Hence, the collecting will continue. As my experience grows playing, so does the quest for another dulcimer, guess that's the best answer.

How many dulcimers does one need?

Easy: just one more!

Since I don't like to tune my strings more than one step north or south of home base, I keep instruments set-up for specific home base tunings. For example, from the home base DAA (1-5-5), I'll re-tune to EAA (1-4-4) for the key of A or DGG (1-4-4) for the key of G.

-Prussia Valley Music Box is tuned ddd. You'll often hear this unison tuning referred to as Galax tuning. With the 6.5 fret on this instrument, in this tuning one can play out of D and G without re-tuning. And to get a more haunting sound, I'll use a false nut under the drone strings at the first fret to raise the drones to E.

-Rod Hensley hourglass is tuned Ddd. You'll often hear this 1-8-8 tuning referred to as Bagpipe tuning. This instrument also has a 6.5 fret so one can play out of D and G without re-tuning. As with the PVMB, I'll use a false nut under the drone strings at the first fret to raise the drones to Ee.

-And the other 5 dulcimers, 4 of which are purely diatonic (no "extra frets"), are set-up for some 1-5-5 home base tuning.

I did take a chance one time one a young guy that built one for his self and then sold it to buy another instrument. It was a 6 string and I wanted one. I got it for just 120 dollars and it played and sounded great. But it could have just as easily been a dud. I usually don't buy from anyone that says no returns. I don't spend real big money on a dulcimer I can't see or play.

Well Barbara, I lucky in that I live really close to Warren Mays shop and I own 3 of his dulcimers. I go to festivals, where I bought my Papaws dulcimer and my Modern Mountain. I bought my banjammer from Clemmer so I knew it would sound good. My Homer Ledfords I bought all three off the internet but Homer made wonderful instruments so I knew I couldn't go wrong. I have only bought one through ebay that was total JUNK and I sent it back to the seller telling them so. They totally misrepresented it on purpose to which made it even worse. They relisted it still saying what a wonderful, great sounding instrument it was. LOL It couldn't even be tuned because of the way it was made. I just have learned what to look for in a dulcimer and I don't buy from builders that I don't know without playing them first. I know most of the builders that I have dulcimers from.

Well I say there like Lays potato chips, no one can have just one. Or at least I can't have just one. I am addictied to collecting dulcimer. I have 13 at the moment, and most of them are tuned dad. I don't have a prop. retuning as I play. Oh 2 are baritones and are tuned AEA and one of those is the one I play more than any here at home. When I play with the group I play one of the others. I have 3 Homer Ledfords that are the pride of my collection and if I find another for the right price it will join them. I have dulcimers hung up all over my walls. I just love them and can't help my self. But I have found out over the time is not to buy because they are pretty, buy them for there voice. Sometimes the ugliest dulcimer can sing the prettiest.

Well, well, how many indeed? I have 2 3 strings tuned DAd, neither of which has any 1/2 frets. I have 2 with 4 equidistant strings one tuned DAAd one tuned DADD. I have a 3 string and 4 string with paired melody string tuned DAA. I have a 5 string which I had in Jim Good's tuning bDGGG but which is now tuned dDAdd (both the bass and melody are paired.) And lastly the Heatherwood is in DAdd but with geared tuners it gets changed to DGdd or DAcc or DGcc (again paired melody string.) When I finish fixing up the other 3 we'll see what tunings they want to be in. The one in my avatar will not sound correct if tuned to DAd and the other one tuned DAA came that way with heavier strings on it, so I just left it like that. I'll be using it on one of my next videos, I hope. Oh and the Capritarus is CGcc (again paired melody string.) I don't like to retune to DAA from DAD. I use heavier strings on the ones tuned to DAA and lighter strings on the ones tuned DAd. The Capritarus just sounded better in C tuning to my ear. I may change the Mastertone 5 string to DGd. In fact I'm going to do that now. So many of mine have pegs instead of gears, it just makes it easier.

Oh and I played for over 20 years and had only one. These others have been acquired in the last year.

Rob

Standard answer: Just one more!!!!!!!!

Though at this point with 14 I probably have enough.

Changing to a lighter gauge string will make it easier to press, but are you sure that is the issue? If the action is too high, you should first have the action adjusted. Second, determine what tunings you expect to use. Changing string gauges has an effect on what tunings you can use. If you use multiple tunings, you may find you cannot lower the lighter strings as far before they get too loose to sound clear. Strings are cheap enough and easy enough to change back, but determine what tunings you plan to use first.

Paul

Changing gauges a bit should help.

I changed mine that way and it helped. Here is a site tht was recommended on another post, it includes a tension measurement that may help.

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_string.htm

Remember Klaus, this is NOT a guitar you're fingerpicking. It's not going to feel the same. You can certainly change the strings a gauge or so in either direction, but the optimum gauge is dictated by the note you are tuning that string to, not how you play that string. If you go too far outside the range, the string will be too floppy and buzz , or much too stiff and risk breakage.

BTW - 12, 12, 12, 22 is not obviously for DAA. I've played DAD using 12, 12, 14, 24 of decades. And I have a 3-string that uses 11,11 and 18 plain.

If you go to the Groups area and ask this question in the Fingerpicking Group, you might get more answers.

Nancy - that's certainly sounds like one of those "stick instruments" which I've taken to calling American Citterns as it is more descriptive of what they are. If it has a neck, it's NOT a dulcimer, by international definition, no matter what people may say. Calling a lump of coal a diamond in the rough does not make it so...

"Banjammer" is one of several names for a banjo/dulcimer hybrid which usually involve a small tambourine or other drum with a 'skin' head embedded in the middle of a regular dulcimer body.

Cindi - if you read my post of page 2 of this thread, you'll see that VSL, shape, number of frets or number and size of soundholes among other things are not part of the definition of a dulcimer. It is a fretted zither (strings across the top of the soundbox) with no neck, but with a body-centerline fretboard. Stick instruments have necks, therefore by definition they are not dulcimers.

Cindi, The VSL of an instrument has nothing to do with whether it falls into the dulcimer category by way of definition. Dulcimers I've known and owned have ranged from 30" VSL to 17". And Don Neuhauser sells a baby dulcimer that fits in a Crown Royale bag. Cute little thing and notes correctly, just very high.

Now with a guitar, if you played it on your lap and slapped a wooden box or some other type of box to the neck, the number of strings or how it was fretted wouldn't matter, the thing would become a zither. 8-)

Paul, Actually an HD is a zither too. Strings going completely across the sound box, only the HD is unfretted more like a Kyoto. hehehheee Bet there is a scientist out there going crazy with the hybrids and trying to pigeonhole them. 

Personally, I'm not fond of pigeonholes. 

The walkabouts were each named by their makers. They seem to use common dulcimer tunings, and a lot of them are diatonic, using the same or similar fret patterns as diatonic dulcimers. This may be where the dulcimer related names came from. How the scientists categorize it is based in whatever historical and other info scientists use for such decisions. The mountain dulcimer isn't really a dulcimer, but a zither, so how can the walking stuff be dulcimers? Only a hammered dulcimer is a dulcimer, right? Or is it a Cymbalom? Did I spell that correctly? Spell check doesn't know.

Paul