Forum Activity for @paul-certo

Centuries of doing wrong may make it common, but not necessarily correct. Sir Elton can only speak for himself, Chuck Berry sued The Beatles for using certain lines in Come Together. Speed and rhythm do not set mood nearly as much as the use of certain modes does. A part of the problem is the use of extra frets and capoes on dulcimers. I have seen too many people who fail to understand the characteristics of different modes partly because a few extra frets allows more than one mode to be played from a single tuning. Similarly, by moving a capo around all the modes are possible in one tuning. But each new position of the capo causes us to lose notes we played in the same tuning with different capo positions, or no capo at all. Not understanding the mode clouds the issue, we can't necessarily play the same song in different modal scales. Each mode has slightly different notes available. At the same time, for chord players,the notes available in a mode dictate what chords can be made using that modal scale. The harmonic elements of a mode are implied by the notes available, and by the locations of the half steps in that mode. This holds true whether we play chords or drones.Playing a diatonic instrument makes this very evident. Adding a capo or extra frets makes this much less easily seen. But when we take out notes from the melody, and substitute notes the composer didn't choose to use, we alter it into a new melody. ( I have done this myself, while singing, but only because I can't carry a tune in a bucket!) We do change the mood of the piece by changing the mode. Faster or slower is a change of arrangement. Using a rock setting rather than a country or jazz setting is a change of arrangement. Taking an ionian tune, and "playing" it using the lydian scale is not an arrangement, it's a new tune. If you use a new tune, for the sake of truth, say you have written a new tune. Anything less is bait and switch. Sir Elton may not mind if you put his words for Candle In The Wind to the tune from Ode To Joy, but if you can't get permission from Beethoven, maybe out of respect you should not go there. I'm not a composer, you won't find any songs of mine any where. I merely stated an opinion, based on not confusing other people who wonder why different peoples versions of the same song sound so different.

Paul

There was a discussion awhile back about the moods of the modes. I say again basically what I said then. A mood can be created by a strong rhythm and beat, more than a mode creates a mood.

I know some dance tunes that are in Aeolian and when I can get them up to speed they are rollicking. The Massacre at Glencoe, on the other hand, is a very serious and somber song written in Ionian and it make me cry.

Arrangements are one thing, re composing a song in another mode is quite another. The chords implied in the drones are not the same when we change modes. The moods are different, sometimes vastly so. The lightness of the ionian mode is very unlike the somber feel of aeolian, though only one note is different. If you take all the major thirds out of the tune, and replace them with minor thirds, you change the feel of the composition. We often use a minor ii chord in place of a major IV chord, this is a change of arrangement. We still resolve to the same I chord at the end. But we don't change the melody. Changing the mode is akin to a new composition, as you may find the original resolution chord is not available in a different mode. Confusion about modes is common, it isn't the simplest subject in harmony studies. The bottom line is we can't always find all the necessary notes for a given tune in multiple modes.

Paul

While everyone is certainly welcomed to their personal opinion, and may I say that indeed as many of us as are on here, that could be a lot of opinions, I would have to paraphrase something that I heard Elton John say in regards to a compilation of songs that he wrote that were interpreted by other artists: That it would be okay with him. After all, each one has a different take on a song and it makes it theirs to do with whatever, be it country-western, pop, jazz or even rap. His song was still his song and he admired those who did make another interpretation as an artist. You can hear that on his Two Rooms CD, in songs such asThe Bitch is Back andPhiladelphia Freedom.

Paul, Changing modes has been a trick that musicians have used for centuries. An example of this is Barb'ry Ellen as it's been change in the mountain singing. Jean Ritchie plays it in the Aeolian mode, but I used English not American songbooks to tab my version of it out. So my version is titled "Barbara Allen" and is in the Ionian mode.

This modal change that has been done, seems to me quite common.

I've got "Barbara Allen" stuck in my mind and realized that I'd phrased that last sentence to fit the final measures of the tune. 9-10-8-6-7-8-3,4-5-7-8-7-5-3 Now I'll have to go play something else to get it out of my mind. heheheheeeee

CAUTION! PERSONAL OPINION: If I wrote a song, and someone changed the mode, I would ask them to stop playing it, and to please leave my compositions alone in the future. If you don't like my peaches, don't shake my tree. Changing the mode changes the mood of the piece, it is not the same as it was composed. But that is only an opinion.

Paul

Pop,

I should have mentioned that, although the melody sounds correct, the drones won't as the melody isn't in the key of G. If you play tuned DGC starting with the g at 4, with my tab the doh note of the scale is actually starting at the 7th fret or the C. Your drones should be a C and G not D and G.

All that is happening is that the 4th fret is standing in place of the nut for the start of the fret placement pattern.If your dulcimer has a 6+ and 13+ frets, for an Ionian scale as "Amazing Grace" uses, you skip the 6th fret and use the 6+ for your second whole step with the 7th fret the first half step. After that up the fretboard the 10th fret is the second 1/2 step and would be played like the traditional 6th fret. There is no 10+ so no 6+ on the nut at 4 playing pattern. If you have a 13+ that becomes the 9th fret and 14 is now the 10th fret. My dulcimers go up to the 16th fret so I could play Ionian tunes that go up to the 12th fret, but no higher when starting at 4.

Pop,

If I was to play "Amazing Grace" in Ionian my first line tuned to any 1-5-5 tuning would start

0-3-5-3-5-4-3-1-0 and to get the same whole and half step patterns from the 4th fret, I would play frets:

4-7-9-7-9-8-7-5-4. And just on the melody line it sounds fine.

No problems, Pop.

Assuming thatafter you re-tune you are "playing the same song" by playing the same fret numbers on the melody string(s), then it is the same tune, but not in the same key or Modal tuning. All you've done is change the scale from one starting at G (the GDD tuning) to one that starts at F (the DGC tuning). Because the drones are not identical (same notes but different octaves and string types) in the two tunings you certainly will get a different sound, but not a different tune. If you ignore the drones the two tunes are the same, just in different keys.

Shady Grove can be played in a Dorian tuning as it doesn't use a 6th fret.

In the book "Tunes of the Wilderness Road" by Smith and MacNeil Shady Grove is tabbed out twice once using DAC for a tuning arranged for the Aeolian Scale, and once tuned DAG written for Dorian. The first one give the Standard Musical Notation as written in the key of F ending on D or a 1. The second give the SMN as the key of C with the music ending on D or a 4th fret.

No, even a key change which is done quite a bit doesn't change the song to another song. I have lots of song books and the tune will be in the key of C, D, G, F but will all be in the major mode or a 1-5-5/Ionian. When I have it tabbed out I can play the tab in any key that my dulcimer can be tuned to, if I keep it in a 1-5-5 note relationship. If I go to a 1-5-8 plus 6+ tuning then I have to change the tab by subtracting 3. The tune is still the same as the notes I'm playing are still the same just lower on the fretboard.

Since, I'm interested in playing for singing it is often necessary to lower the key that a tune/song is written in. However, I disagree with Ken a bit on "personalizing" a song. I feel it can be over done. Again, I'm thinking in terms of singing a song. Frequently I've been in a position that when hearing a tune to a song that has had the heck personalized out of it, I can't sing the song any more. In fact, unless I've been told what the tune is suppose to be, I wouldn't recognize it played instrumentally at all. That's taking a tune and going too far with it on embellishment in my book.

And as to Shady Grove, I have it tabbed in Aeolian Mode as the music for it in my books tends to end on a 1. So I tune CDBflat.

It's the same tune if you play mostly the same notes, regardless of Mode. Adding lots of embellishments (even to the point you begin to lose the basic melody) is just "personalizing" a tune.

Remember a Mode is a scale, but only the Ionian Mode is is the familiar do, re, scale:

Ionian = do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti, do.

Mixo = do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti-flat, do

Dorian = do, re, mi-flat, fa, sol, la-sharp, ti-flat, do.

If you have the 6+ fret on your dulcimer you get both the ti and ti-flat notes of those scales.

Last time I saw him was two Springs back, he had invited me to play with him, up near Austin. Jack is still around; he's building some furniture now, I know. Seems like life got in the way, for both of us. He had gone to work, and I married and move to New Mexico...miss my old friend. You can find him on Facebook..."Jackie Whitworth" Send him a message, I'm sure he'd love to hear from you.

I only 'knew' Jack online-- nice fellow!

Over on EverythingDulcimer, there was a thread about Jack and his dulcimers in 2007.

http://www.everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=12598&view=previous

He even joined ED and posted to the thread. But with his website gone I'd guess he's either no longer building or otherwise passed on.

For now, mine are in there cases standing up. However, I am going to get a big enough table this summer to set them on. The guitars and autoharp will still be on the floor standing up.

I'm bringing this thread up again as I just found it while doing a image google on quilt stands. I'm wanting to do another dulcimer stand and was looking through for quilt stand plans and pictures. Well, there my dulcimer was resting on one of the stands I pictured in this thread. I think I'm going in circles. I'll just use the measurements from my old stand and have my brother cut some wood for me.

Folkfan, that's a great idea converting a quilt stand. I like that.

How do I store them? Let me count the ways. Eight on a modified quilt stand. One on an X key board stand. And others scattered around the place on various wooden easel type of stands. And they are usually covered with various small quilts I've made for dust covers as this one is on the keyboard stand. The keyboard stand is nice for standing up and playing. I don't have any hanging on the walls as I don't have much interior wall space with my home's floor plan.

And as to storing them in cases, well, I've never had a case for every instrument. Lee Felt's soft cases are the ones I have, two double and one single, but I wouldn't put instruments in them and leave them lying around on the floor. With my kultzy feet I'd end up stepping on them.

That's a great tip Ken! And the cats will like it too.

Ken Hulme said:

if you get static shocks shuffling across the carpet, it's wwaaaay tooo dry. Pans or bowls of water set out near heat vents will help moisturize you and your dulcimers.

When I had a house with large walls, I hung them there, using hooks and a small loop of leather or string around or through the peghead. No problems there as long as you put them on an interior wall and out of the direct sun (temperature stability).

Personally i don't like storing them in cases as they tend to get played less. But living aboard a boat as I do now, I have two in my BagLady double bag, and one hanging from the ceiling of the forward V-berth, plus one stashed at my Lady's house.

The biggest problem of any storage is keeping the temperature and humidity stable. Most houses are dry as the proverbial bones in the winter - if you get static shocks shuffling across the carpet, it's wwaaaay tooo dry. Pans or bowls of water set out near heat vents will help moisturize you and your dulcimers.

The T-shirts are nice.

I have mine now to try out, it's a nice little dulcimer, and I've had fun with it. I too will be sending it back, as we are saving up for new living room furniture. But I will be sure to give them my size for the free
Tshirt!
Susie said:

Surprise, surprise......I got notified by Folkcraft and got the FolkRoots Travel dulcimer on Friday to try out for a few days. My sister also got one. I'll be giving them my feedback...mostly good, but a couple suggestions. Nice that Richard followed through with the auditions. Neat little dulcimer...nicely made. I'll be sending it back, though, because I have another dulcimer on order.

Agreed. They do a great job of taking care of folks.

Susie said:

I didn't realize they were doing it either, until I got the instrument, and the instructions letter said that they were doing T's as a "thank you". I'll take it....it's a nice thing to do on their part.

John Keane said:

So...I guess you realize that I didn't know that I was passing on a free shirt...

Susie said:

Oh....and I'm getting a free T for auditioning one. Since I already own a FolkRoots dulcimer, it will be nice to have.

I didn't realize they were doing it either, until I got the instrument, and the instructions letter said that they were doing T's as a "thank you". I'll take it....it's a nice thing to do on their part.

John Keane said:

So...I guess you realize that I didn't know that I was passing on a free shirt...

Susie said:

Oh....and I'm getting a free T for auditioning one. Since I already own a FolkRoots dulcimer, it will be nice to have.

I did a trial run on one of these; the tone was quite good, but I felt the fretboard was too thin and transmitted too much sound from fingering into the soundboard. Still, it's a fun design, and would certainly be enjoyable as a travel instrument.

I'm workin' on it!

John Henry said:

Tut tut ! With your wardrobe in it's current state !! C'mon JK !!!

Anon

Tut tut ! With your wardrobe in it's current state !! C'mon JK !!!

Anon

So...I guess you realize that I didn't know that I was passing on a free shirt...

Susie said:

Oh....and I'm getting a free T for auditioning one. Since I already own a FolkRoots dulcimer, it will be nice to have.

I played one at Dulcimerville in June, so I passed on the test trial. I was very impressed with the sound from such a small instrument.

That is nice, Susie. Iwas on that audition list, too, but basically gave up ever hearing from Richard. As it turned out,I obtained one anyway, but was obliged to sell it to pay for another (much more expensive) dulcimer. My ad with video demonstration is still available in the For Sale Forum for anyone interested.

As Ken has pointed out, the shallow fretboard does not allow it tobe played noter/drone style. I also found the stringsa bit loose andwould suggest different gauge strings. But other than that, the instrument is very well made, has excellent intonation, and especially for its size, has a really nice tone, one that seems to get better as thesebrand new instruments mellow a bit.

Susie said:

Surprise, surprise......I got notified by Folkcraft and got the FolkRoots Travel dulcimer on Friday to try out for a few days. My sister also got one. I'll be giving them my feedback...mostly good, but a couple suggestions. Nice that Richard followed through with the auditions. Neat little dulcimer...nicely made. I'll be sending it back, though, because I have another dulcimer on order.

I passed on the audition when Folkcraft contacted me as I tried one out at the Indiana Dulcimer Festival and purchased it. I was favorably impressed. Because of the height of the fret board it is not really suitable for noter/drone style playing.

Awesome!

Susie said:

Surprise, surprise......I got notified by Folkcraft and got the FolkRoots Travel dulcimer on Friday to try out for a few days. My sister also got one. I'll be giving them my feedback...mostly good, but a couple suggestions. Nice that Richard followed through with the auditions. Neat little dulcimer...nicely made. I'll be sending it back, though, because I have another dulcimer on order.

Surprise, surprise......I got notified by Folkcraft and got the FolkRoots Travel dulcimer on Friday to try out for a few days. My sister also got one. I'll be giving them my feedback...mostly good, but a couple suggestions. Nice that Richard followed through with the auditions. Neat little dulcimer...nicely made. I'll be sending it back, though, because I have another dulcimer on order.

I wondered the same thing, Dusty. Oh well, if they still want to send me one, I'd love to try before I buy, if I end up liking it. Sounds like that's still Richard's intention. Maybe they feel they owe it to those of us who signed up. Richard took a couple to a show/festival in Feb. and had good response. He sold those too.

Dusty Turtle said:

I stopped waiting. I just figure maybe someday I'll hear from Richard that they're ready. But until then, I'm not holding my breath. I also thought we were supposed to be the beta testers before they sold the model, but they're already selling the model! I don't really understand why they need testers anymore.

I stopped waiting. I just figure maybe someday I'll hear from Richard that they're ready. But until then, I'm not holding my breath. I also thought we were supposed to be the beta testers before they sold the model, but they're already selling the model! I don't really understand why they need testers anymore.

Absolutely...the more the merrier!

I talked to Richard about a week ago and heard the same thing, John. However, I've been hearing that they are "almost ready" for a few months now. I know they are really busy at Folkcraft, and regular orders take precedent. I'm with the rest of you....I'm really anxious to try the new dulcimer out, but I've kind of tried to crank up my "patience" meter a bit. They've been selling them too, which I'm sure is having an effect on the number of dulcimers that they can get ready to send out to us. My music store has 2 on order. So, maybe I'll end up trying one at the store before I get one sent to my house. I'm glad that Folkcraft is real busy, though...shows business is going well for them.

Yeah... December to March without a word is kinda hinky. Frankly I thought a December field test wasn't the best idea. It should have been ready to sell by November 1st or held back until spring for Festival season. So that appears to be what they're doing.