Forum Activity for @b-ross-ashley

B. Ross Ashley
@b-ross-ashley
08/28/09 11:35:10PM
59 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'd have to agree with Ken and Carson, here, Cynthia; with the additional remark that there are three different instruments called "dulcimer", and while the bowed and the mountain dulcimers are related, the hammered dulcimer is really quite different.All the different soundbox shapes of mountain dulcimer just sort of evolved from the original zitters that drifted south from the German settlements in Pennsylvania, as local woodworkers experimented with hardwoods and fret placement and numbers of strings to produce an inexpensive instrument for everything from church hymn singing to dances. You'll even see what some people call the "Tennessee music box" style from the Tennessee Valley area, with the tuning pegs on the player's right instead of on the left. Ours is really a "folk" instrument with nothing standard about it and no single inventor or virtuoso maker - we have not yet seen, I don't think, an Antonio Stradivari of the MD.As for picking one out for yourself: Make sure you can handle the instrument before you buy, if at all possible. Look to make sure the fretboard is straight, not bent or bowed.Try the strings, making sure that the note on the 7 fret is right on an octave above the open string. Strum it and see whether or not you like the tone. Traditionally it isn't supposed to sound big and mellow like a guitar, but high and silvery; your mileage may vary. Depending on the speed of your Internet connection, look for Bing Futch and other dulcimer players on Youtube and you will get some idea what a well-tuned instrument can sound like ... for a real surprise, look for "pinball dulcimers" there!
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
08/28/09 08:16:54PM
2,157 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Cynthia;Unfortunately if you try to listen to everyone a dulcimer does sound something like:'hourglass/teardrop/aorell body; 3/4/6/8/12 strings; doubled/equadistant; with added frets 1+ 6+ 8+ or all (chromatic); baritone/octave/-ette/bass/standard; tuned to play mode DAd DAD CGc CGC AEA DF#A DADD etc etc' and 'may be cappo'd to play....' and 'can tune CGc and play DAd on it'...and....and ..... there is the - 'great for playing fiddle tunes, mandolin tunes, etc etc'and .... 'may be bowed' .....gasp for air....Truth of the matter is, for a simple instrument it does come in a huge variety of shapes, sizes and configurations. Probably because it is more or less the last of the Western folk instruments to be of interest to a modern audience, and as a result is undergoing a wave of changes by people trying to make it fit into modern music which it was never intended to play.Hmmm... Dulcimer Classification... some thoughts.ShapeEverything under the sun! However the good news that that shape is more than 99% cosmetic . Being hourglass or elliptical or rectangular, by itself, it does not effect the sound. Pick the shape that most appeals to you.MaterialsDulcimers have been made from most imaginable woods and plywoods, lexan plastic, paper, carbon fiber, even Leggo blocks! Cardboard dulcimers are a good inexpensive introductory instrument. So are plywood or veneer dulcimers. Solid wood dulcimers are the most common and serious. Plastic instruments are mostly still novelties.Number of Strings3, 4 and 6 string dulcimers are most common. Essentially most dulcimers have 3 courses of strings - bass, middle drone, and melody. Often the melody course is doubled; sometimes the bass and melody courses are doubled; or all three course are doubled. The real odd arrangement is 4 equidistant strings a specialist setup, not for everyone.TonalityOctave Dulcimer or Dulcimette - physically much small in overall size, and normally tuned an octave higher than a standard dulcimer.Standard Dulcimer - normally tuned to the keys of C and D. Most useful for individual playing or playing with other dulcimers in unison.Barintone and Bass Dulcimers - physically about the same size as a standard dulcimer, but tuned to much lower ranges.Octave, Baritone and Bass dulcimers are essentially special purpose instruments that can be played as solo instruments or with standard dulcimers where music has been written for their parts. Not instruments particularly good for beginners. Bowed dulcimers are very special purpose instruments, although almost any dulcimer can occaionally be played with a bow.Tunings/KeysThere are eight traditional Modal tunings, and a number of other common ones. Because the dulcimer is not normally chromatic it must be re-tuned to play in different keys.The standard dulcimer is most often tuned to the key of D in the Major or Ionian Modal tuning called DAA; or the equally popular Mixolydian Modal tuning call DAd. Both tunings are equally valid, and dulcimers tuned to each can be played together. Most of us recommend beginners pick either DAA or DAd and spend a few months learning to play several songs and becoming familiar with the instrument using one tuning.Methods of PlayingTraditional - the melody of the song is played on the melody strings, allowing the middle and bass strings to drone accompaniment.Modern - the melody of the song is played by creating chords across all three course, for each note of the melody.AccessoriesCapo or Reverse Capo - these are devices for changing the pitch of some or all of the strings as an alternative to re-tuningStriker - a chopstick-like device occasionally used as an alternative to a pick.Picking A First InstrumentDepending on your budget, I think most of us would recommend that you start with either a cardboard dulcimer, or one of several "student" instruments in the $100 - $200 range from well-known builders. Ask us, we'll tell you who we think of as good builders. Avoid the Applecreek, First Act and other inexpensive instruments made in foreign countries by people who don't know or care.Hope this helps you narrow down your choices somewhat. BTW, ask the folks around here; they'll tell you've I've been messing about with dulciemrs for over 30 years, so I do have an experience and knowledge base from which I speak.
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/28/09 11:49:11AM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Cynthia, sometimes too much information is too much. Good luck in choosing your dulcimer! Cynthia said:
Now I'll go back to trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to pick one and get started on the playing part...Cynthia
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/26/09 11:53:33AM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

ok now you're scaring me! =8-o Ken Hulme said:
Razyn - I'm thinking about getting the Model 3 - with the wine corkscrew and fretsaw attachments!
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
08/26/09 11:44:42AM
2,157 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Razyn - I'm thinking about getting the Model 3 - with the wine corkscrew and fretsaw attachments!
razyn
@razyn
08/26/09 09:55:09AM
49 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That's just the regular Swiss Army noter, I think.Dick
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/26/09 09:17:25AM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Foggers said:
Or how about having an interchangeable fitting on your index finger - so you can attach the noter when you need it, a soup spoon for the kitchen....a screwdriver for the work shop?? The applications could be endless!!
Then we could all talk about Ken's wooden implant. =8-o ;D LOL
Foggers
@foggers
08/26/09 07:18:44AM
62 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

barbara kelly said:
Um Ken? Please don't, I would think that would hurt..lol Or, make it long enough to stir soup and you've solved two problems..lol
Or how about having an interchangeable fitting on your index finger - so you can attach the noter when you need it, a soup spoon for the kitchen....a screwdriver for the work shop?? The applications could be endless!!
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
08/25/09 06:41:11PM
2,157 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Everybody pretty much knows where I stand on traditional playing style , Actually I'm thinking of having an ebony noter implanted on the end on my left index finger - the best of both worlds!!!!!As far as playing style affecting or being affected by the music, I certainly understand that. There are a couple of tunes that I Fingerdance because they sound best that way - All Through The Night, the Welsh lullaby being one.The dulcimer was invented, if you will, expressly to play the transplanted folk songs and broadsides and ballads of England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Germany, etc. that becam the music of the Appalachians. Music which came from a dronal, diatonic, simple melody background. It was never created with the thought of playing Reggae or classical Euro, Blues, Jazz, Pop, Rock or anything much later than 19th and early 20th century "music of the people". That it can play all those other kinds of music without significant modification is simply amazing.I prefer to play that older music, because I happen to like it. So I have hundreds of tunes in my repertoire, but only a few that fit in with the contemporary Jam Session. Which is why I'm not fond of jam sessions, I suppose - if you don't 'play well with others' no one is really happy. I'm more than content to play the music I know and love. I'll sit in the corner, doin' my thing, and if someone wants to come over and see what I'm up to they're welcome. I agree that the social aspects of playing dulcimer are nice, but that's not why I play. I play to express myself, to myself.
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/25/09 05:26:38PM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi- another member pointed out that this discussion is just as much about traditional noter style playing as it is about modern chord style playing.It's a great discussion, and is of interest to all of us no matter what style of playing we prefer- so I moved it to the general dulcimer playing forum so everyone could enjoy it more easily.Carry on! :)
Guy Babusek
@guy-babusek
08/25/09 02:22:26AM
96 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I like all of them... I'm sure that's why I am starting to acquire quite a brood of dulcimers. LOL I find however that the wood doesn't always really play as big of a part in the sound characteristics of an instrument as does the actual design and manner in which it is built. Obviously wood choices do make a difference though. Clare Chu said:
Fascinating discussion. I find that I'm drawn to the more trebly brighter sounds of the traditional dulcimers, a more plaintive sound that makes me picture a lonely mountain cabin next to a creek. But then again, I'm a violin player and sometime mandolin player so I tend to like trebly sounds.
I noticed that other folks like the walnut with western red cedar topped dulcimers that are mellower sounding and emphasize the bass string more. This seems to be more prevalent in California, maybe because of the guitar background?
TERI WEST
@teri-west
08/24/09 09:23:59PM
25 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Awesome!!! I'll bet you have a wonderful garden~~~~~~~~:<) Strumelia said:
Rod Westerfield said:
I'm not sure that a fishing pole left, but I'll borrow one an let's go fishin.... love them worms...
I've got about 4000 worms right in my kitchen! Wait, I'll go get them!

Strumelia
@strumelia
08/24/09 08:25:11PM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Clare Chu said:
Fascinating discussion. I find that I'm drawn to the more trebly brighter sounds of the traditional dulcimers, a more plaintive sound that makes me picture a lonely mountain cabin next to a creek. But then again, I'm a violin player and sometime mandolin player so I tend to like trebly sounds.

I noticed that other folks like the walnut with western red cedar topped dulcimers that are mellower sounding and emphasize the bass string more. This seems to be more prevalent in California, maybe because of the guitar background?
Clare I totally agree with you on this. And yes I *do* think the guitar strength of the West coast had an influence on mtn dulcimer revival in the 1960-70's.I too am into fiddle and mandolin and I too prefer the higher plaintive treble sound on the dulcimer. I don't even use heavier middle or bass strings at all, in fact.This is all SO interesting!
Guy Babusek
@guy-babusek
08/24/09 11:12:52AM
96 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

A lot of my BG lovin' friends have a surprisingly open mind... Some of the Celtic tunes can be quite lively. You can really hear how American folk music came from a Celtic background. Some of the melodies are almost identical. The style is a bit different...
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/24/09 11:04:15AM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'm just getting acquainted to Celtic and Renaissance music. Although I love playing and listening to it, I wonder how it will go over here in my area. I'll give it a try but, they'll probably go to sleep. They're accustomed to listening almost exclusively to BG.
Guy Babusek
@guy-babusek
08/24/09 11:01:15AM
96 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Most of my dulcimer friends prefer the noter/drone style. I personally prefer finger picking and chords (as a player, as a listener I love all of it). But I think that's because my choice of music is not very traditional to the dulcimer. I like to play Celtic and Renaissance music a lot.
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/24/09 10:10:55AM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Wow! and double Wow! I thought you were pullin' my leg. Shows what a farmer I am. Very interesting.
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/24/09 06:49:34AM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Carson Turner said:
What do you do with a big box of worms?
They eat up all our kitchen scraps- coffee grounds, newspapers, eggshells, veggie/fruit waste, banana peels, old bread, egg cartons...they love to eat it all up. Keeps it all from going to the landfill. They are neat and clean and they pay me back with trays full of lovely pure earthworm castings to fertilize my garden with...so I can grow more good veggies! The bin does not smell- it's like having a box full of nice forest earth. I could keep it in the basement, but it's much more convenient to have it in the kitchen- nature's garbage disposal. ;)
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/23/09 11:25:35PM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Rod Westerfield said:
I'm not sure that a fishing pole left, but I'll borrow one an let's go fishin.... love them worms...
I've got about 4000 worms right in my kitchen! Wait, I'll go get them!

Rod Westerfield
@rod-westerfield
08/23/09 10:45:42PM
109 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'm not sure that a fishing pole left, but I'll borrow one an let's go fishin.... love them worms...
TERI WEST
@teri-west
08/23/09 09:53:02PM
25 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Yep, a whole can o' worms, isn't it??? Sally Pena said:
Teri... are you still there? See what you started? (G)
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/23/09 04:22:41PM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Carson Turner said:
I do some past-life regression hypnosis - fascinating stuff. Of course I have to do the "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer because I don't have an MA in Psychology (but do have 2.5 master's) so can't license in this state even though I was trained to do it....... another rant on a different topic for another day.
Hmmm...no, I meant in my current life, years ago. Just a figure of speech when i said "in one of my past lives'. lol
Rod Westerfield
@rod-westerfield
08/23/09 04:06:22PM
109 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Oh we are not fussing.... this is fun challenging each others minds...LOL .... ok maybe a little fussing, but our fearless leader is watching...lol.....
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/23/09 03:41:38PM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Teri... are you still there? See what you started? (G)
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/23/09 03:39:27PM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Sounds like a gauntlet (hope it's spelled correctly), to me! Now, no fussing, fellas. This is a friendly site, remember?
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/23/09 03:38:17PM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Oooo, how cool! I surely misspelled it... sorry. My hubby is Puerto Rican and I guess I made the mistake of assuming it would be spelled the way I heard it. Thanks for the correction. Strumelia said:
It's really a combination of all these factors we've been discussing.

I mean if you play a dulcimer like a guitar it will sound more guitar-like, but it will still sound like a dulcimer also. And likewise if you put a dinky skinhead on a dulcimer and play it like a banjo it will sound more banjo-like.....but you won't fool ME! LOL It'll still sound like a dulcimer too.

By the way it's cuatro, not quatro. In one of my past lives I was a member of a traditional cuatro orchestra up in the mountains of Puerto Rico. (really)
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/23/09 03:35:57PM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

It's really a combination of all these factors we've been discussing.I mean if you play a dulcimer like a guitar it will sound more guitar-like, but it will still sound like a dulcimer also. And likewise if you put a dinky skinhead on a dulcimer and play it like a banjo it will sound more banjo-like.....but you won't fool ME! LOL It'll still sound like a dulcimer too.By the way it's cuatro, not quatro. In one of my past lives I was a member of a traditional cuatro orchestra up in the mountains of Puerto Rico. (really)
Rod Westerfield
@rod-westerfield
08/23/09 02:52:38PM
109 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Can't help but do this..... So, if we made a guitar in the shape of an hourglass dulcimer from the same wood ..... then you'd have a dulcimer.... I think your experiment would be a good idea... I also agree that plat techniques have a lot to do with sound also... but I still think the sound box has a greater influence on the sound. On a baritone dulcimer, we use guitar strings... but it still does sound like a guitar.... ok let the experimenting start...
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/23/09 02:42:24PM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Wow! Again!Now we're getting into the nitty-gritty of dulcimer/guitar/banjo/mandolin/dobro/quatro... whatever sound. I already know that I won't be able to distinguish the difference... Carson, I assume you have all these instruments?
Rod Westerfield
@rod-westerfield
08/23/09 02:11:44PM
109 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Carson stated..."A .012 piece of steel string is just a .012 piece of steel string though so the sound should be close no matter what we hang it on. Our sound box doesn't make nearly as much difference as playing style does."Sorry but I think I'm going to have to disagree, the sound box has a great effect on the sound..that comes from that string.... for one dimensions of the sound box will have an effect on the sound small body versus big body... I make dulcijo's which the bridge sits on a drum practice head, gives a different sound than my normal dulcimers... lots of sound box variables will play into the sound... but anyway just my opinion....
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/23/09 11:44:04AM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That sounds right, Strumelia... but, if you think about it, guitars are played many ways as well... strumming across all strings, picking, Spanish, flat picking, etc. Just looks like too many strings, to me. But, I must say, mandolin is a fascinating little instrument. Although it has 8 strings, those strings seem to be grouped as 4. I think I'm leaning that way if I ever want to expand my stringed instrument life.
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/23/09 10:34:06AM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I think the dulcimer more often sounds like a guitar when it's playing typical 1-3-5 modern Western chordal music (which most modern folk and pop music is) and using guitar-ish flatpicking technique. Once you get away from the full 1-3-5 chord progression & flatpicking sound and go back to open drone/mode based music while fretting only the melody string, it immediately sounds almost nothing like a guitar.In simplified terms- when you play a dulcimer like you play a guitar, it sounds more guitar like. ;)
Sally Pena
@sally-pena
08/22/09 11:14:30PM
35 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Roger... I don't have the time or patience to learn guitar. But, hearing the dulcimer resemble a guitar while I'm playing it is truly wonderful. And, I like it to sound like a dulcimer too. And, if I can get it to sound like other instruments, I'll enjoy that as well. When Don Pedi gets going, he can sound pretty much like a fiddle... it's all just great!
Strumelia
@strumelia
08/20/09 07:55:40AM
2,405 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi Teri,I split my time pretty evenly between banjo and mtn dulcimer. Even though I stick with all traditional music, I still like a little variety and hence the two instruments which I love.Learning new things is good. You should just do what you want! ;D
TERI WEST
@teri-west
08/20/09 01:42:07AM
25 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

James, I think I follow a similar muse. I get bored doing the same thing all of the time too. I cannot stick to one thing in my crafting/art either. I like to do different things in different media. But then again, I could be going in the "jack of all trades, and master of none" direction too....I learned violin and guitar when I was young and others told me that playing dulcimer would come easy to me because of it. I laid the violin down 30+ years ago and I don't think the dulcimer came that easy. I have been playing for almost 2 years and I still have a long way to go. They are 3 distinctly different instruments. I guess being in my 50's doesn't help. I do wish that I had picked the dulcimer up a long time ago. I play mostly by ear and even though I had a lot of theory training, I do not think that way when I play. Lately, I have been trying to learn tin whistle too..... What I really want to learn is bowed dulcimer. Jim Miller allowed me to play his at KMW.It is strung like a violin so it was not that difficult for me, other than balancing it was not easy for me. I think I could play it well if I had one and worked at it. FWIW, Teri
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
08/10/09 03:59:04PM
1,554 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I play noter-and-drone style all the time and love it! Yes, it is easy to play "Bile 'Em Cabbage" at the speed of a dirge. Try playing it at fiddle tune speed. Try playing it through 10 times, at fiddle tune speed, without playing it the same way twice. Try. . . How about Jean Ritchie's "Over The River to Feed My Sheep" from her album THE MOST DULCIMER. Play that "at speed" cleanly and you'll know you played somethin'!I love lots of different styles of dulcimer play! This past weekend at Fort New Salem in WV, I heard Jerry Rockwell, Butch Ross, and Doug Berch all play MD-- I enjoyed them all! Butch Ross played electrified stuff using looping and it was very cool to get to see and hear and Doug Berch is a fine player whose music I'd never before heard. Everything Jerry Rockwell plays is wonderful; he is a master of the mountain dulcimer in every sense of the word.Playing noter-and-drone is simple, in many respects. However, it is always a challenge for me to play both slow pieces and fiddle tunes cleanly and with expression.Robin
Randy Adams
@randy-adams
08/09/09 11:34:10AM
125 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I mostly play old time music....couple of Irish tunes played w/old time beat....few classical tunes. Even tho I play the OT tunes I can't limit myself to 1 playing style. I love to play the noter drone way...& have been stuck on it for a year or so....but to me not all the tunes I wanna play sound good thataway.....how ya gonna play Staten Island Hornpipe n/d for instance....& not all the tunes I wanna play fit in a diatonic fret configuration.I like to flatpick fiddle tunes...pretty much note for note....& also like to play fiddle tunes...& other melodies....in a melody approxamation/chordal style.I am tickled when I get a melody in mind & it fits into a way I play the dulcimer. And even tho I take about 3 approaches to playing some tunes just don't fit for me on the dulcimer. I don't play slow tunes very well...or waltzes.I could learn some new techniques but am not motivated at this time.The diversity of the dulcimer is a wonderful thing & I enjoy listening to others play in so many different ways.
TERI WEST
@teri-west
08/08/09 01:42:01AM
25 posts

Dulcimer or Guitar?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

"...we can make it very complicated indeed and might even progress our droned monochord into a whole 'nother instrument (such as a guitar or piano) that's no longer as easy to play or as inexpensive, but capable of different music..."I agree completely with this! We have created the complexity of the dulcimer. Considering it was originally a quiet, personal instrument, there was no need for anything fancier."...Is the time coming when the six-string chromatic dulcimer will be so prevalent that those of us playing a pure diatonic three-string would be considered to be playing the "easy" version or an archaic instrument? I think that's where the chording style is leading, players of that style will continue to expect more-and-more capability from their instrument. Not exactly a "bad" thing - it's different....."This does seem to be the way things are moving today. I felt really sorry for the noter/drone player I spoke with because they had participated in a competition and it did not go well. There does not seem to be a place for folks who want to "keep it simple" if you want to compete. Maybe there should be separate competitions, ie.. traditional/modern.As far as progression goes, I have not heard of that type of thing, but it may be the reason folks want to introduce kids to it, hoping they will have a positive experience and move on to other things. I would hope that they become terrific players and carry on the tradition. FWIW, Teri
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