Interesting discussion on what people want to play when they get together to jam. Some of the songs I like were on the radio 40-50 years ago--Puff the Magic Dragon and Today (while the blossoms still cling to the vine) come to mind readily. There are a few Beatles tunes I wouldn't mind learning to play on the dulcimer (Yesterday would be one), but then that's pretty old, too. And, heck, I LIKE the songs from the 1800's and the early 1900's...the songs we sang around the campfire in Scouts and with our families. Then, of course, there are the old hymns....many of them good rousing campmeeting tunes, fun to sing AND play. There are so many of these types of songs to learn, that I don't even think about learning something you might be hearing on the radio these days....just my take on things.......

Raul - I know what you mean about bluegrass nazis!. I once had a huge argument with the organizers of a bluegrass festival who advertised an Open Instrument competition and then wouldn't let me play dulcimer because it wasn't a "Blue grass Instrument". I argued that their music wasn't bluegrass because it wasn't being played in "the Bluegrass" region of Kentucky (this was in Arizona) and that in three days I hadn't heard anyone play a negro spiritual, white spiritual or transplanted Scots-Irish ballad (the roots of bluegrass). They finally let me compete, and I came in second out of 20 or so guitars, mandos and banjos...

I can understand that Raul - I prefer old time to bluegrass sessions myself on dulcimer (although I am the dobro player in a local bluegrass band!!!!)

I converted a standard dulcimer to Galax tuning and used that for about 6 months at sessions before deciding to buy a Galax instrument. I just put 4 x 0.010 strings equidistant on a TK O'Brian dulcimer thatI had. It gave me the opportunity to try out the tuning and playing style with quills and noter before I took the plunge and spent some money. Ihave a couple of Galax dulcimers now. I find that I rarely play them at home, just a little practice time to keep on top of the technique which is quite difficult. I prefer to pick up one of my more standard dulcimers when playing for myself. However, I always have a Galax in my bag for session.It is something that I've heard Phyllis Gaskins say about the instrument as well - once you getanother instrument in the mix with the Galax it really comes to life. They are very distinctive and classic played solo but they also have this other life of driving the rhythm within an old time mix. When I get the chance, one of my favourite playing situations with aGalax is to play for a clog dancer and have their feet as the second instrument

Raul Blacksten said:

Raul, It sounds like you've been to a fairly rigid Bluegrass jam. You might want to try a find a more inclusive group of players if you enjoy Bluegrass. I was welcomed into a group of bluegrass players jamming at a local community center. I stood outside the circle and held up my spoons and my shaker egg. The leader gave me a smile and a nod so I joined in. And spoons and shaker eggs aren't traditionally used for bluegrass.

I found this an interesting set of rules and regs. for a bluegrass jam.

http://www.s-w-b-a.com/pickerscorner_docs/etiquette.htm

Try a Galax dulcimer with noter and quill at a Bluegrass jam Raul. The instrument sits in its own 'space' in the mix providing 'high hat' rhythm, and you'll also get chucked the odd lead break once the crowd gets to know you

To reply to Folkfan's question, I came to this music before getting a dulcimer. As a young person I was involved in a weekly square dance group. I want to learn more about the music which led to an interest in folk music in general. It was wanting to play dance music that I became involved in playing guitar, then banjo and eventually the mountain dulcimer.

This has been an interesting discussion and I have to say that it has gotten me thinking. As I've said in the past, I'm a hobbyist when it comes to playing the dulcimer and I don't jam, so I can't add much to the discussion as to why fiddle tunes are so important in the general music that is played on the dulcimer. Having been to a number of festivals, and heard many a jam, I can agree that they do seem to be a large part of the the jam repertorie along with hymns such as I'll Fly Away, and Will the Circle Be Unbroken.

I'm sort of interested in questioning as to how many people came to be playing this music before or after getting a dulcimer? Do they play it because they truly love it as Robin does, or play it because it seems to be the only way to participate in clubs and jams, or are there others (like me) who simply don't bother trying to learn the music since there are so many other songs and so little time to learn????? Recently, these are the sort of questions that have been popping into my head as I've been reading this thread and others.

Thanks Stephen and every one else for your comments.

I think that I have slightly miss-represented myself in my earlier posts. I would far prefer to play old fiddle tunes knee to knee with you Stephen than play the Beatles!!! I am just really interested why these tunes have found such longevity with the dulcimer. When I sit down to play banjo, mandolin, guitar or dulcimer, as I did yesterday, it is the old fiddle tunes that I'm drawn to.

I think that your insight Stephen into the fact that these type of old tunes are melody centered probably has a lot to do with their popularity among dulcmr players. In fact, that was just the sort of insight I was searching for when I asked my original question.

The 'play TUNES or PLAY tunes' allegory is actually a little in balance for me. In many contexts the tunes themselves are as important (play TUNES) as the playing (PLAY tunes). And itwas the Appalachian fiddletunes themselves that drew me to the dulcimer; in that I discovered old time fiddle tunes BEFORE I discovered the dulcimer. So in my case it was the tunes that led me to the instrument rather than the instrument's teaching materialleading me to the tunes. A lot of the sessions I attend are TUNE centered - for example they will be billed as an 'old time' session of 'Welsh tune session' etc so there is an expectation that not 'everything goes'. The TUNES are the focus and the hub of the wheel around which the players dance. The love of the tunes and the love of playing are intertwined, and it does matter WHAT you play as much as HOW you play it. There is a social context and connectivity, a tribe, that gels the participants. The Beatles or Aerosmith are not played at a Welsh tune session or old time sessionbecause in that context and moment in time it is notthe tribe'smusic. In some respects I think that there is an element of this tribalism amongst us dulcimer players regarding our repertoir. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all - it is just something we should notice about ourselves.

I enjoy playing a variety of music on the dulcimer but always return to Appalachian tunes and also folk tunes from other countries that have a 'fit' to the instrument. I love the tunes possibly more than I love the dulcimer, in that I will sit down and pick out the tunes on pretty much whatever instrument I have in my hands at the time. What I love about the dulcimer, particularly old style noter drone playing, is that it plays the tunes so well- with just the perfect timbre and feel I love to hear.

So thank you again for your insights. I felt it was a question worth posing just to generate a debate on why the Appalachian repertoir is still so interlinked with the instrument despite playing styles and players exposure to different music genera having moved on so far since the 1960s. It is good to think these fundamental issues through once in a while

A big part of it is the books & tabs available tend to use public domain tunes. Copyright issues are not going away, so we have to live with that. When True Colors becomes public domain, it will be as outdated as Old Joe Clark is now. Another issue tied to this is limited sales. A lot of younger people may want guitar tabs for Cold Play songs, but there are way more young guitarists than young dulcimer players. Look around at dulcimer workshops, and see how the demographic shakes out. When I was in my 50's, I was still one of the younger people at dulcimer festivals. I'm not in my 50's any more, but how many teens and 20's do we see at dulcimer festivals? A publisher looks at how many copies they can reasonably expect to sell, and decides what books to put money into. If they see that certain books sell, and others don't, they look for more similar to the ones that sold well. If much of what sold was public domain, the publisher is going with more of the same. That's how the whole music biz works. That's why so many dulcimer recordings and books are self-published. But there still needs to be enough profit to make it worth while for the author. I don't write books, maybe someone who does can chime in here. I don't see myself spending my limited time listening to, and learning to play, songs I don't care for. Not for the purpose of writing a book, paying royalties, and hoping someone buys enough copies to allow me to make a profit. Life is too short to learn music I don't like, I don't have enough time to learn all the songs I do like.

Couple this with the twists & turns so much popular music uses.Going from one song to the next could easily require a new tuning. The club I was in refused to try new tunings. This is the main reason Old Time and Bluegrass jams are usually separate. We OT banjo players use multiple tunings, and tend to stay away from chord based playing. We stay in one key for a while, then agree on a new key for the next batch of songs. Bluegrass banjo players play chord-based music almost always using the G tuning, even when the key is C, D, or A, Bb, etc. They think nothing of changing keys at the drop of a hat, and the OT banjo player who tries to keep up is tuning while the other musicians are playing.

I tend to stay up late at festivals, because after the jams get somewhat sparse, those who like to sing do some really wonderful things. You can't sing over 24 dulcimers, 6 banjos, 4 mandolins and 11 guitars at a jam. But when a certain amount of the people have gone to bed, great fun is had by the half dozen who are still awake. That's when those other songs start to come out. I'll sit out the heavy metal dulcimer songs, the heavy metal guy will probably sit out my Hawaiian songs. We may all sit out the songs we don't know, and allow one or two players to entertain us with Mozart, or Cole Porter. If I think I can fill in some chords, I may try. If I think I'm messing it up, I will probably drop out and listen.

For the purpose of Stephens lessons, I think the basics are in order. For advanced lessons, branching out could be good, but royalties and demand are going to dictate to at least some extent. That certainly doesn't stop us from exploring other music on our own. As I see it, the ultimate goal of a teacher is obsolescence. The teacher should strive for the day the student can take over teaching themselves what they want to learn. A good foundation in the basics is crucial for this to happen.

Paul

I think you answered your own post with this paragraph:

So, why these tunes? I do think they fit really well on the instrument. In the long run, they're easier to transmit and execute than some other types. They're also great for traditional dancing and what it requires. The notes are just enough to keep folks busy and happy. The feel is just right.

They just are the "right type" of songs that fit I guess. Everyone seems to know a lot of them and it's just easier to go to them in a jam. IMHO

Stephen, interesting observations. I came to the dulcimer after years of playing country/folk/blues/jazz/classical guitar. I can't limit myself to any one genre of music either. I also had no other dulcimer players to influence me, except on recordings. Until 2011, I had taken one afternoon workshop with Leo Kretzner in 1989 (I think.) I wasn't interested in playing a lot of the things I heard on the available recordings. I changed tunings a lot and figured things out by ear to play what felt "right" to me. No one said, "you have to play in [pick a tuning]" or "you have to play [insert overplayed jam tune here.]" So now I've come to WV and am associating with other dulcimer players and jamming with them instead of just being a solo artist. 'Til recently, the dulcimer came out around St Paddy's Day for coffeehouse gigs and back in the back for another year. I didn't know many of the common "jam" tunes. I'm learning them and having a blast doing it. Sure it's sometimes the same tunes every jam, but that's ok, I need the repetition to learn 'em. Sure, I want to call out "59th Street Bridge Song," but I don't. Come on to WV and I'll cook up a big bowl of grits and make some red-eye gravy and if we can move afterward maybe we can find something we can pick around on as well.

On a more serious note, sorry to have missed you at Laura Elder's Spring Fling in Lancaster OH. Just couldn't make it. Hope you'll be close again!

Starting a new thread as was recommended: (The original discussion centered on 8 jam along videos .)

Robin Clark wrote:

"What intrigues me is why the dulcimer teaching repertoire is so regularly centred around old Appalachian tunes when there is such a wealth of contemporary music that would equally suit a contemporary dulcimer jam?"

and then,

"Wouldn't it be better to do tunes like this for Join the Jam on the contemporary mountain dulcimer, asthey arelikely to come up at a campfire jam?"

and,

"Shouldn't'True Colors'be an absolute contemporary dulcimer players 'standard' rather than 'Old Joe Clark'?"

First off, I haven't been able to dedicate myself to one kind of music. What works for me personally is focusing on a style, genre, or musician for 1 to 3 months at a time. I go through cycles. The holidays of November and December get me on Irish. When I'm stressed, I turn to jazz. Throughout the year, I pass through bluegrass, blues, electronic dance music, old-time, rock and roll, Indian, and others.

What I play in a Jam depends on the "campfire" and who's around it. I'm up for anything, but the jams I'm usually in include a bunch of dulcimer players who's shared body of knowledge and experience is, much more often than not, centered around pre-bluegrass Southern rural fiddle tunes or anything that's even a little like them.

When I get together with folks, I'm just not real focused on what style we're going to play. I'mobsessed, actually, with HOW we're playing. If I sit down knee to knee with another dulcimer player, I'm not there to play TUNES . I'm there to PLAY tunes. I'm looking for good vibes, clear communication, and creative risk-taking. It's really about community for me. The tunes are the vehicle for the expression. They're not the end goal.

So, why these tunes? I do think they fit really well on the instrument. In the long run, they're easier to transmit and execute than some other types. They're also great for traditional dancing and what it requires. The notes are just enough to keep folks busy and happy. The feel is just right.

A lot of music from the last 60 years has been more groove oriented as opposed to melodic. Take "Walk this Way" by Aerosmith, for example. It's one of my favorite songs but it's just too much about the rhythm to be the kind of material melodic jammers can embrace AS A WHOLE. There are exceptions.

Strongly melodic pop tunes over the last 100 years are often not rhythmically busy enough to work as dance music. I can play "Begin the Beguine" on the dulcimer but there's a certain density of notes that just doesn't fit the bill.

I'm not saying "Walk This Way" and "Begin the Beguine" aren't appropriate for the dulcimer or for a dulcimer jam. I AM saying they're less likely to show up because of the type of rhythm and melody they depend on. There won't likely be enough people who are prepared to play that kind of music.

Traditional type jamming tunes have certain features in common that lead to success with what we're going for. Consider tunes from the following traditions: Shetland, French hurdy gurdy, Irish pipes, German polkas, African singing and drumming, etc. In most cases, it's enough of the right stuff to keep it interesting and accessible and not too much of something else to ruin the communication and community. We're not talking about specialized show music; we're talking about group play along material that welcomes a wide range of abilities and levels of involvement.

There's also the fact, for me, that I had relatives who played Southern rural music. I also had relatives who came from the mountains of Tennessee and Kentucky. The old-time melodies we play makes me remember folks I knew as well as folks I never got to know. I'm sure I look fondly back on agrarian ways. I have a heart for the pioneering type and it's centered around the rural and rocky parts of what's considered the South. (Yes, I was born in Cincinnati but I love grits and red-eye gravy so back off!)I even blame Hee-Haw which I grew up with and loved.

Why are we playing old-time even though we're not playing old-time with folks at old-time festivals? Part of the reason is we have become our own thing. We play dulcimer music. Through time, we've found the right kind of material to keep us together long enough to laugh and enjoy the eating. These tunes fit the bill. You also have to realize our versions of these old-time tunes have been somewhat simplified to accommodate the limitations of our instrument. Our versions don't always mesh. (Also, quite often, as a whole, we're not as mature musically as the folks we want to sit in with. I know there are exceptions and I find them exciting and inspiring.)

Basically, I just want to get together with some friends and trance out to whatever kind of music will work. I didn't know any of these tunes when I started. I just wanted to join the jam. I was looking for friendship and a common goal. These Southern American tunes we favor fit the bill pretty well.I really don't care what we're playing as long as we can do it well together and feel good about it as and after it happens.

There ARE different kinds of jams. At Dulcimerville in Black Mountain, NC, you'll find all kinds of jams at night. You've got the Don Pedi old-time crowd. There's the standard dulcimer fiddle tune jam. You've got the bunch who likes to sing. There's a doo-wop jam. There's the away-from-the-dorms building where all the electric players are plugging in. There's all KINDS of jams to suit your interests but when we all get together in one big room, you're going to hear the common repertoire.

One last thing. You can't get around the copyright issues. For me to publish a book of modern tunes legally is one thing and it's possible. John Sackenheim and Tull Glazener have pulled it off, just to name a couple. Putting out a package that includes a book, a CD, and DVD video is a whole other level of complexity. I've gone to a couple attorneys about this in Nashville. One department handles print publishing. Another handles video. Since your audio CD has 15 versions of the same tune, you sure don't want to go through Harry Fox or you'll be paying 15 times the statutory rate. It's all got to be magnificently coordinated. Add digital distribution to the mix including custom websites and it's enough to make you want to stick with public domain. I sincerely hope things change in the next few years and I suspect they will. (Please someone tell me things have changed. I'd love to hear all about it in another forum or privately.)

That's enough rambling. Back to jamming. Robin, when you and I get together knee to knee, let's play some Beatles tunes. I'm all for it.