Forum Activity for @strumelia

Great suggestions. Giving a brief comment or compliment, both online or in real life, takes so little effort but can have a profound effect on others, more than we might ever know.

@dallas , I do apologize that we have veered a bit off track from your main subject. But your Dubroff dulcimer does have some very nice fine tuning beads!

@nate , a few years ago, member @dave-d restored a Keith Young dulcimer and posted a photo here of the wooden bead fine tuners Keith used to make. (You can look up his 6 yr old thread) Below is the 'before' photo, showing the remaining two beads- one in place properly and the one on the bass string had crept under tailpiece into the wrong place. From the one good one showing, you can see how they were elegantly made and how they might work. They don't actually need to move all that much in order to hear the audible change in the note due to tension change. When moved all the way to the bridge, it should be pretty much slack and not change the note much at all... when slid towards the tail you can hear the pitch go up more. If you need to change the note more than just a little, you just use the main tuning pegs. These beads are only for very fine adjustments once you are quite close to the note you need.

It 'shouldn't' be hard to slide the bead, and it 'shouldn't' drastically change the break angle. The tuning leeway it gives is usually less than 1/2 half step... fine tuning the note. Well made fine tuning beads are (or should be) a pleasure to use... mostly useful if you have old fashioned (non geared) wooden peg tuners. Of course you need to have a flat fretboard surface between the bridge and the pin or the end of the tail, in order to have a place for them to slide up and down. An inch is not generally quite long enough. I like the beads to have a smooth flattened surface where they slide on the fretboard, so that they neither roll nor dig into the fretboard surface over time such as a spherical bead might do.

My Keith Young dulcimer has the wood bead fine tuners as well.
Because the string sits high above the soundboard next to the bridge and very low as the string approaches the tail pins or tail end, when you slide the bead towards or away from the bridge, it raises or lowers the non-vibrating section of the string slightly, thus either increasing string tension or lowering it... which makes the note a tiny bit higher or lower, as much as a half step sometimes. Since the Vibrating String Length is not actually changed, these tuning beads simply change the tension of the string by stretching it tighter (with the bead close to the tail) or allowing it to be at natural tension as if the bead wasn't there (when the bead is slid close to the bridge).

Ooh, that is exciting Nate, you are a winemaker now!
we have blueberries coming soon on our backyard bushes. We already put the netting over them to keep the birds from eating them. The blue jays and squirrels would eat them all otherwise. 🤷🏼

John I'm so glad you are on the mend. That sounds like it was no fun at all.
Big hugs to you...

@john-petry , from your wording I'm not quite sure whether you are looking to get a hammered dulcimer, or looking to sell one...?

I think you should just take the strings off, put 1 tiny drop of superglue at the bottom of the bridge and nut and hold them down a couple of minutes. Leave it to set for several hours before putting the strings back on. --> Try using a bass string one size thinner/lighter gauge- it won't pull with as much tension. A change of one size shouldn't make much difference in playing.

By the way I think those tuners are common enclosed-gear guitar machine head tuners. Not planetary or "planet" geared tuners. Either type are fine to use, but machine head guitar tuners are usually cheaper. Aliexpress is based in China and usually ships from China. Inconsistencies in their ad descriptions and grammar are typical.

You're welcome to use more descriptive song titles if you think it would help people, Randy. 

Hi everyone- just a reminder to please create a thread or post title that gives a hint of what your new thread is about. It will really help when folks are browsing thread topics to find things that interest them, or to find threads they may be able to help provide answers to.

For example, if seeking suggestions on glue to use in instrument making, call your thread "Which glue should I use?" instead of "Question on dulcimer making". Or if looking for advice on jam playing etiquette, call your thread "Jamming etiquette" instead of "playing question".  It makes browsing this site much more enjoyable, efficient, and... I guarantee you'll get more and better replies from others this way!
Thanks!

Larry, in order to prevent tuning your strings too tightly thus breaking the strings or damaging the instrument...

1) you must know what note you are aiming to tune to and choose a string thickness (gauge) that is appropriate to that note, for the scale length of your string (the measurement from nut to bridge, aka "VSL" which stands for Vibrating String Length)

2) once you have chosen the correct thickness of string for the VSL and note you want to tune to, you'll need an electronic tuner to tell you when your string is approaching that note once you start tightening it. (I assume you are not able to tune by ear alone).  You must also be sure you are tuning to the note in its correct OCTAVE.

This string calculator can help in choosing a string gauge: https://www.strothers.com/string_choice.html

And this may also help you hear/understand the notes you are aiming for: https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-notes-do-i-tune-my-strings-to.html

What is a folk instrument is very much like the question "what is folk music"... it's a question that can be difficult to exactly define, and can be kind of subjective. 

I think this may be helpful:

Here is Wiki's definition of "folk music".

And here is Wiki's definition of "folk instrument".

I just stumbled on this discussion again... what a blast from the past.
So... this next Summer, in July 2024,
FOTMD will be  fifteen  years old.    

Your new website is looking good John!  

Thought I'd throw in this additional link for where to find free dulcimer tab:
https://dulcimertab.com/click-here-for-tablature-list/

(btw I think a lot of their tab is actually taken from the original Bruce Ford's Everything Dulcimer site, which is no longer existing.)

(@Ken - I removed your post because it gave inaccurate advice, sorry)

Hi Sarah, FOTMD does not have a TAB section, since there are places where one can post tab online or on their own websites.  Try looking amongst the sites in this thread for good places to post your tab:
https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/dulcimer-resourcestabs-books-websites-dvds/5559/try-these-sites-for-free-tab

That aside, since your TAB is for a copyrighted (non-public domain) song by Merle Haggard, it would not meet the criteria for sharing with other members here on FOTMD. Our site has fairly firm guidelines about posting or hosting copyrighted material.

However, I would say that if instead of attaching your file to a post here,  if you instead post your TAB elsewhere online, I would not mind if you post a LINK here on fotmd, telling members about the fact that you are offering it on that other site. That way, our site is not technically 'hosting/offering' the file here. 

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Patricia, as per your wish, I'll lock this discussion.

@davisjames , if the cicadas are singing in the note of E, then they should harmonize nicely in a 'fifth' interval with the key of A.  (Think of how fiddles are sometimes cross-tuned to AEAE)  Can you test this theory by playing something in the key of A against your cicadas?  Also, supposedly most telephone landline dial tones are set to the note of A, so that would be an interesting test as well, to see if they harmonize well together.  👂🏼 🙌🏻

I imagine that different species of cicadas 'sing' at different note pitches.

In the photo, you can see how if you stacked two ball-ends on that screw, there is left almost NO threads to actually hold the screw in the wood. You'd wind up screwing as much as possible and stripping the wood threads. Plus, then the lower ball-end ends up digging into the wood. Not a good arrangement at all. Loop end strings just slip right over whatever pin or screw is there... no screwing/unscrewing involved.

It would be interesting to see what keys sound good against a solid backdrop of cicadas! Most sounds do have a key they are in if you listen carefully. Such as telephone dial tones or train whistles. I do know that different species of cicadas have slightly different sounding 'calls'. I love cicadas- the nymphs look prehistoric as they climb up tree trunks, and the adults are spectacular and beautiful.

Yes my Keith Young dulcimer has that fretboard. (see the FOTMD logo at top of this site for a pick of that dulcimer)  Keith used to call it a 'floating tailpiece' I believe.
Randy, agreed it is a bit tricky to catch the loop ends over the brads underneath. I found that bending the string end slightly beforehand helped a lot.

Quick clarification:  "DAA" can refer to either a common tuning for us dulcimer players (with the bass string tuned to a low D, the tonic note played at the third fret of melody string, with the dulcimer played in the key of D) ...OR it can stand for "Dulcimer Acquisition Affliction"... a not uncommon illness whereby one succumbs to buying multiple dulcimers with little or no self control.

Sometimes the DAA illness settles down on its own after the initial raging fever. Other times, symptoms continue until friends or family stage some sort of intervention, or a storage/financial wakeup call occurs. Rehabilitation and/or therapy may be necessary for a return to 'pre-dulcimer discovery' normalcy.  🦠 🚑

I recall others posting in the past about how increasing string tension (either by tuning higher, or simply by putting on heavier strings) on dulcimers added volume.

I do know that on banjos if you increase tension you will get more volume... but there is a point of diminishing returns, and when you reach it the sound suddenly becomes more tinny. I have seen this. And more volume does not necessarily mean more resonance or a 'better' sound.
On banjos, more string tension can be achieved by: heavier strings / higher tuning / tightening the skin head / tightening down the tailpiece that presses the strings down / putting on a higher bridge.
Supposedly, Earl Scruggs was once asked how tight to adjust the skin head tension on a bluegrass banjo banjo, and he said "Crank it down it just until the head splits, then back off a little."  

Glad to hear your eye surgery is behind you, Ken!  
Those are two really wonderful dulcimers you have there. 🙌🏼

That's too bad- the music is great, and it's good exercise!  

Hi Jerry... so you waited twelve years to introduce yourself here?  

Do you go to the monthly contra dance at Dewey Hall?

Although I agree with some of your points Wally, as a native born Brooklyn girl raised in Greenwich Village in the 1950s and 60s, and my parents having been 'Bohemians' there who regularly had gatherings of musical friends at home... I must maintain that not a soul ever uttered a word like " Dul-sim-o-wah".   Though I've heard many a Brooklyn and Bronx accent while growing up, nobody we knew ever would have said that word remotely that way. I must object!  Your examples sound to me a bit more like maybe.. Bostonian?  😹
Any Appalachian dulcimers in the Greenwich Village or Brooklyn areas in the 1940s-early60s would have been traced either directly or indirectly to Jean Ritchie's arrival in NYC in 1946 from Kentucky (after getting her college degree), and her influence in introducing the humble rural instrument to the modern urban folk revival setting. Even 'Uncle' Ed Thomas (1850-1933) and Jean Ritchie's father Balis and their whole family in the Kentucky mountains called their instruments "dulcimers".

The Appalachian dulcimer is a folk instrument that evolved in the US from various folk instruments familiar to immigrants, such as hummel, langelik, langspil, scheitholt, epinette, etc. The earliest currently known dated Appalachian dulcimer has a date from I believe the 1830s, but doubtless they were being made in the US somewhat earlier. There are some good dulcimer history books out there that should be read by anyone interested in the background of dulcimers, as currently known.

The fact is we will likely never know exactly when/where/bywhom the American lap dulcimer was precisely 'invented'. Such records were never officially kept by anyone, and folk instruments can be fragile or be stored in barns- many have not survived as long as instruments like violins or pianos that were considered more valuable and thus were better cared for over time. Compared to more widespread commercial instruments, the surviving documentation on mtn dulcimers is sparse.

As to names, like Dusty said there are regional variations in spelling and pronunciation, especially when it comes to informal folk culture. The 'dulcimer' in St James Bible likely refers to ancient instruments that were more like psalteries or hammered dulcimers, or perhaps even bagpipe-like.
There is no Official Rule Book that governs how mountain dulcimers should be called, played, or tuned. Instead, there are musicians, scholars, online fans, and builders who all have their own preferences and ideas on classification, tradition, and features of the instrument. The mtn dulcimer is definitely classified in the broad zither family as opposed to the necked 'lute' family, but beyond that people get into classification and feature preferences that can be relative according to their own ideas.

If I started posting regularly about distinct characteristics of the "Dulcimonium"... then after a few years everyone might well consider that to be a verified and distinct variety of mountain dulcimer, not to be confused with Dulcimores or Galax dulcimers or box dulcimers or modern dulcimers. I could go on about how this or that feature makes something a Dulcimonium or not a Dulcimonium... a dulcimonium must have gut strings, six of them, and have a long triangular body shape and must have wooden frets and zither tuning pins... or else it's not a true dulcimonium.
What I mean is that there is no actual official 'Bible' or rulebook of mountain dulcimers. With enough repetition and enthusiasm, anyone could make Dulcimoniums 'happen'.

BTW please excuse my evening ramblings, ..and know that i certainly don't intend to offend anyone!

 Sounds good!  Do you have the youtube link you can share?

Nice to have you here @robmachin ! 
McSpadden dulcimers tend to be very reliable and sound wonderful.
Be sure to join our UK Group on FOTMD as well.

What a great discussion!
Sometimes our ears interpret a richer or fuller sound as a 'louder' sound. As Dusty said, a decibel measuring instrument should be able to technically answer whether two melody strings are actually louder than one. It's how technicians measure the loudness of machinery or traffic noise. But there are so many more qualities to sound than simply decibels.

I like Randy's point about the two strings being struck a fraction of a second apart... However when we play two notes or two open strings a half-second apart while normally playing a tune, does that make those notes louder? If not, then why should the same action be louder if the time between striking two strings is shortened to a smaller fraction of a second as with two melody strings? Unless some sort of sympathetic vibration effect does something, as Robin mentions.

I would think it must be true- Nate's point about extra strings producing more tension on the top-  and that might increase volume overall. But I can't imagine that adding one thin melody string tuned to the same pitch would do enough to hear any difference. I suppose if one added two heavy drone strings, or tuned all the strings to a higher pitch that might increase top tension enough to hear it. 

As Wally mentioned, musicians often tune strings to create 'beats' that play off each other in a pleasing way. The beats of two adjacent strings tuned not quite in unison can produce an intentionally pleasing sound quality. Classical violinists do this very intentionally. Sophisticated electronic tuners make this easier to achieve nowadays whereas it used to be attempted by ear long ago.

Lastly, if you place the dulcimer on a wooden table to play, you get an immediate and very noticeable increase in sound volume. I call that 'the music box effect', and it's common practice in playing traditional dulcimer antecedents such as epinette, hummel, langspil, langelik...

@robin-thompson - thank you for posting Kim's lovely description of her times with Larkin Bryant. So nice to read it.  

@jon-w-harris , that's such a cool story of how Russ Green inspired you to start building dulcimers in the mid '90s.

Hi Lilley, as SteveC posted in your other thread on this subject, it seems Gary is no longer building dulcimers.

So many fascinating historical facts in this discussion- I have enjoyed it so much and just want to thank everyone for their cool posts!

@ken-hulme - I believe it's fine when people add to discussions that are from years ago. This thread is only two years old. I always encourage folks here to use the Search function, which by its very nature pulls up older references to subjects that are of interest to them or to others. I never fail to learn new things from reading older threads that have resurfaced, and i enjoy when they are revived. Unless there's a real problem about it, here is no need to fingerwag about how old a discussion is- people always figure this out on their own. But thanks for your concern!  😉

@ken-hulme - I believe it's fine when people add to discussions that are from years ago. Many folks here use the Search function, which will pull up older references to subjects that are of interest to them or to others. I never fail to learn new things from reading older threads that have resurfaced! There is no real need to point out how old a discussion is, people always figure this out on their own. But thanks for your concern.  😉

That is a truly drool worthy Galax dulcimer!  I love my all-cherry Galax. Cherry sounds good and is a nice choice. The new owner should be tickled pink!