Forum Activity for @curtis-carlisle-bouterse

"Perfect" Edd Presnell dulcimer?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

This is not exactly a sale but a query. I bought a walnut 3-string dulcimer from Edd Presnell in 1984 and asked him Not to fret it because of previous intonation problems. I had intended to fret it (with old-fashioned staples), or have it fretted professionally, but never did.

This would seem to be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for a serious collector-player. Is there any interest in having a vintage instrument from a famous maker which could be realized in perfect intonation (of your choice) or is this just an unfretted Presnell?

Serious inquiries and responses should write me at curt at bouterse dot com.

updated by @curtis-carlisle-bouterse: 12/18/22 08:42:17AM

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Quite understandable, you have my sympathies.  I still think that the cost of the dulcimers should reflect in their playability.If the fret pattern is wrong or there are other reasons for it I would expect the builder to fix these issues or get the cash back, especially if you spent over 1000 bucks on it.
I'm not sure about the legal warranty period in your country. Here in Germany we have two years for new product from supplier. 
In any case: I would try this: Ask two other builders for their opinion on the instrument and it's fret positioning and general playing. Ask them for a offer to fix the issues. Then go to the builder and ask him for an explaination and what he could offer to you. 
You can do a first check yourself using following  a fret calculator: https://www.thekimerers.net/brian/YAFCalc/YAFCalc.html 

Best regards, Jost.

Looking to Upgrade/Add to my Dulcimer Collection

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

John's TMBs are very traditional and have a great voice.  The big difference is that John's TMBs are made to be played traditionally --  with the melody string only being fretted -- so they have frets only under the melody string.     Gibson's TMB isn't very traditional and has frets all the way across the fretboard.  

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I'd take a look at McSpadden's Bass dulcimer fret pattern and make a comparison to what you have on those dulcimers.  As the info there says they can be played DAD and while their's are three strings, I really think your OK.  Before I'd can that dulcimer I check the pics on McSpadden's site, especially since the odds of using those high frets are not very frequent.  Then again, I'm just a hack and I'll bow to the experts on here.  Here's a link........

https://www.mcspaddendulcimers.com/category/all

Misplaced fret

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Yeah the fretboard would have to be replaced or planed down. I'm too OCD to live with empty fret slots. I'm sure it's not worth doing on a $700 Dulcimer, and I don't have the skills to do that myself,  This may be destined for the trash bin. I hope I can save the other one

Such a shame.  This has wonderful flamed maple on the back and sides

updated by @wmacky: 12/16/22 01:02:57PM

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi, Strumelia

It's the same dulcimer and the same picture, just zoomed in?

About fret naming  - yeah sorry, I'm not used to the strange dulcimer fret naming thing.  Skipping the .5's when counting got me when I counted. 

However, just looking at the pick you can visually see there is a spacing issue around the .5 frets

updated by @wmacky: 12/16/22 09:01:17AM

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

wmacky, you said:
"For example fret space 13/ 14 is smaller than fret 15/16. Shouldn't the opposite be true?  Also look at fret space 6/7. the spacing is smaller than 7/8?  I believe those fret are 1/2 step apart right? Shouldn't  the frets that are a 1/2 step apart be getting closer as you approach the bridge?"

First of all-
From frets 6 to 7 is a whole step. (From frets 6.5 to 7 is a half step.)
From frets 13 to 14 is a whole step. From frets 15 to 16 is a whole step. From frets 7 to 8 is a whole step.

The other confusion here is that you seem to have posted pictures of two different dulcimers, both of which are similar to each other. One seems to have normal-ish spacing, the other seems a bit 'off'. For discussion purposes, we need to be clear as to which dulcimer is which, and which picture we are all commenting on.

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The builder builds higher end dulcimers as well as guitars. I see this same fret issue on some other dulcimers he has built but not all of them?  How could a experienced builder make the same mistake over and over?

I'll pretty OCD about such things and that feeling of frustration I had before is returning.  I may have revert back to closet storage.  It's a shame as I was originally pretty excited about learning it.

Thanks for the help confirming

updated by @wmacky: 12/16/22 07:16:26AM

Looking to Upgrade/Add to my Dulcimer Collection

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I make old-fashioned TMB replicas, Michael.  You can see some of them on my Facebook page under "John Knopf".  They're patterned after ones made in middle Tennessee in the late 1800s.

Ron Ewing 6 string dulcimette songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Almost all dulcimers have 3 courses of strings -- Bass, Middle Drone and Melody. 

Each course can have 1, 2 or even 3 strings.  Traditionally dulcimers had only 1 string per course.  However today we see 4-strings with a doubled Melody course, 4 strings with doubled Bass course, and once in awhile 4-strings with doubled Middle Drone course.    We also commonly see 5-string dulcimers with doubled Melody and Bass courses.  Of course the 6-string setup, sometimes called a Church dulcimer, has all three courses doubled.    ALL of the above are played as if they have only 3 strings -- strumming, flatpicking or fingerpicking both strings of each course as if it were a single string.

Looking to Upgrade/Add to my Dulcimer Collection

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Gibson makes a very nice TMB.  They have a big voice.  

"Bill Davis "? 5 string tuning and string gauges

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Use the Strothers String Gauge calculator to tell you what gauges to purchase.
Tom & Missy Strothers | String Choice

Plug in the VSL and the Note you want to tune a particular string to, and it will tell you the gauge.  

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Since you have 2 MD, If they have the same VSL they should be the same spacing. Otherwise just use a fret calculator to give reference numbers. 

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ah, now I see what you mean!  Yes, that looks "wonky", just looking at the close-up photo!  It would be tricky to repair, especially if you want it to look good when done.

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

This might help you a bit figure out what you've got going on.  BTW, if you ever come to Salt Springs, drop me a note and we'll try to figure it out if it's possible.   Folkcraft has a chart that has fret measurements on it as do lots of others.........check it out on the link you can see some of it on page 2.  The only dulcimer builder around you that I know of is David Beede in Melrose and a few in Jacksonville that might be able to give you some help.

http://www.davidbeede.com/Fret_patterns.htm

https://www.folkcraft.com/products/fret-position-reference-guide-mountain-dulcimer-1340001

"Bill Davis "? 5 string tuning and string gauges

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I have my 5 string Perfection pegs to replace original wooden pegs now. Only minor bushing required.

Now it is set for a double Melody string and equal spacing on the other 3.  I found the "Extended range" set up. Are there any others commonly used?

if so, what string gauges? It's a 28 1/4 " VSL, older instrument

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

A misplaced is fret is not a difficult repair, but can be tricky depending upon where you need to cut the new slot and what it will look like cosmetically. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The 6 1/2 and 13 1/2 frets halve (roughly) the space between frets 6 and 7 and 13 and 14. Essentially you have chromatic fretting in those places. Once you cross frets 7 and 14 you return to diatonic fretting which means those spaces, 7 -8 and 14 - 15, will be wider than the chromatic spacing, but shorter than 6 -7 and 13 - 14 respectively. Take a ruler and measure the spacing 6 -7, 7 -8. The width 7 - 8 should be slightly smaller. The same will be the case 13 - 14 and 14 - 15. If the second measurement in each case is not shorter, you have some misplaced frets.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for the responses -  Just trying to learn

Let me try to answer you -

The whole dulcimer project was put on hold as my wife sadly passed away unexpectedly  at a young age. As you can imagine I lost interest.The luthier seemed super defensive and I just couldn't deal with all that at the time. It's been over a year and I'm ready to deal with this again

The issue with dulcimer number 2 is that it frets out on all 4 strings on the first 4 frets. I fear the neck has a back bow, but I need to find a proper length straight edge to check it. If I can determine the neck isn't back bowed I'll attempt a fret leveling ( I have the tools)

About the fret spacing on dulcimer 1 -

Yes I'm new to Dulcimers but have had guitars for years. My understanding with guitars is that the fret spacing gets closer per half step as you get closer to the bridge. There are frets on that dulcimer were this is not true.

Look at the pic again.

For example fret space 13/ 14 is smaller than fret 15/16. Shouldn't the opposite be true?  Also look at fret space 6/7. the spacing is smaller than 7/8?  I believe those fret are 1/2 step apart right? Shouldn't  the frets that are a 1/2 step apart be getting closer as you approach the bridge?

 Am I not understanding something? This is why I wanted to ask the experts here.To learn if I'm in error

This spacing is different than on dulcimer 2 which seem more correct. 

updated by @wmacky: 12/15/22 07:15:20PM

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I agree with Ken and John that the fretboard looks quite correct. I'm not a builder (Ken and John are builders and quite experienced) though, just a player.

If you don't mind to explain: Which issues made your second dulcimer unplayable?

If I payed so much bucks I would expect a playable instrument.  I can understand you didn't wanted bad bloot before you got the second one. But why didn't you discuss it afterwards? 



Don't take this the wrong way but I'm getting more sceptical about the wrong frets. If your dulcimer really woudn't be playable or did have a wrong fret positioning it wouldn't sound good. 

So (again please don't take this as an insult) maybe your impression last year was  because you were a beginner who didn't even know one song to try on the instruments? 

As said: No offense just me trying to understand the root cause of your issues. 

Best regards, Jost

Rugg and Jackel Folkroots dulcimer - year?

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Hi, Michelle, 

That is a beautiful dulcimer!  I hope you are enjoying it!  Your post made me want to post a picture of my Rugg & Jackel dulcimer.  I bought it YEARS ago on ebay for $50!  Only 27 inches long, but it has a beautiful tone!  A long time ago, on the old EverythingDulcimer site, Howard told me the year it was made.  But I've long since forgotten.  I'm going to PM Howard and ask him to remind me.  Thanks so much for sharing!

updated by @michael-willey: 12/15/22 12:31:56PM

Looking to Upgrade/Add to my Dulcimer Collection

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hey, all!  I have a Bill Berg 5-string and I'm looking at upgrading/adding to my dulcimer collection next year (which will be so soon upon us!!).  I've been looking at Ron Mooney out of Salem, VA ( https://appflutesanddulcimers.com/) or Don Gardner ( https://www.gardnersdulcimer.com/) and Ron Gibson in KY ( https://gibsondulcimers.com/).  I especially like Ron Gibson's Tennessee Music Box.  I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with these three or maybe you could recommend someone I haven't thought of.  Thanks so much.

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I did call the builder last year, and asked about the issue. He became very  defensive and didn't seem to want to discuss it.  When I asked if he used Just intonation, he had never heard of that!!! :-o   It was a bad situation as at the time I had already commissioned a custom built Dulcimer by him which was almost complete. I didn't want bad blood as I awaited the second dulcimer. That dulcimer ended up having different issues, making it unplayable... I needed up storing both and never playing them.  a $1800 loss....

The good news is that while I had the dulcimer out last night taking the pics, , I learned and played my first song.  Time after time. It sounded pretty good!

updated by @wmacky: 12/15/22 08:42:00AM

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Can you hear the off-ness or is it just a few cents on the tuner?   Is this instrument supposed to be fretted Just Intonated, or Mean Tone or something else.  Most people who play ordinary dulcimers with groups of folks don't order a JI fretted instrument because JI instruments don't sound quite right when played together with conventionally scaled instruments.

Call the builder.  Tell him your issues.  Tell him what you've told us.   Have him listen to you play the scales.  

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I was counting the wrong frets I guess.   Compare distance between frets 13/ 14 and then 14/15. The gap gets larger going towards the bridge.

Getting unstable readings from my Korg OT 20 tuner but some frets seem several cents off

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Like John, I do not see any "issues" with the placement of the 6+ or 13+ frets.  Play it.  Play the scales.  If the scales sound right and read right on your electronic tuner, they ARE right.  Photographs can be deceiving.  

updated by @ken-hulme: 12/14/22 10:09:50PM

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I'm sorry, but I don't see a problem here.  Does it intonate correctly when you play at those places?  The fret pattern looks normal to me, just from looking at that photo.

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ok, I'm seeing more fret issues.  Look at the frets just before the 7th, and just before the 14th.

updated by @wmacky: 12/14/22 07:07:59PM

Ron Ewing 6 string dulcimette songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

thanks. Couldn’t find a definition of 3-course dulcimer, so a little confused.  🤪. 

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

yes,  the 13 + fret      It appears to be at least 50% closer to the 14th rather than slightly past halfway

I   I I

updated by @wmacky: 12/14/22 01:33:22PM

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Are you talking about the 13 1/2 fret?

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Yes, I'm at work now but will post a pic tonight

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Can we see a photo, please?  The spacing of a 6-1/2 fret should be approximately halfway between fret #6 and fret #7, but slightly closer to fret #7.  There is a formula that may be used to place it precisely in the right spot.

Misplaced fret

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I purchased a rather expensive dulcimer a while ago and feel one of the frets is misplaced.  It is visually apparent!.  Looking at photos from the Luthier I see most of his instruments have the fret placed correctly, but some have the same odd positioned fret as mine?  With Just intonation/ Even tmp,  Various scales, and added frets it can get confusing, but this just looks wrong?  It's the 6 1/2 fret in the second octave

updated by @wmacky: 12/15/22 08:03:43PM

Hearts of the Dulcimer podcast in 2022

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thank you for listening!

Jean Ritchie was born 100 years ago today

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

What a great video!  Thank you for sharing it!

Ron Ewing 6 string dulcimette songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

As Dusty sez -- Join the group to see the responses...  And your dulcimette is really a 3-course dulcimer with two strings on each course... so there is a TON of music out there it depends on which genres you like to play!   I have a short VSL dulcimore made by Bobby Ratliff, on which i play (in Noter & Drone or Fingerdance) mostly Americana and Celtic folk music and ballads).

updated by @ken-hulme: 12/14/22 06:38:20AM

Ron Ewing 6 string dulcimette songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

It's true that 6 String Dulcimer group hasn't been too active recently, but remember that you have to actually join a group to see the responses to all the discussions.

I'm sure there are as many responses to this question as there are personal musical styles, but I'm happy to chime in, not with specific song suggestions, but with types of songs and techniques that might be useful.

There are two different attributes to your dulcimer that might suggest special consideration. First, it is an octave instrument.  You can play the same tab as everyone else but will be one octave higher.  Sometimes, you don't have to do anything special and will blend really well. I sometimes take my dulcimette to my monthly dulcimer club and pull it out when we play Southwind, for example.  My dulcimer really stands out from and complements the rest because of the higher register.  But that higher register--and the shorter VSL that allows it--also means that the instrument has less sustain.  The strings just stop ringing (or get really soft) much faster than those of a standard dulcimer.  So one trick is just to play tunes that have lots of notes.  I actually find it easier to play fast fiddle tunes on my smaller dulcimers.  But if you choose tunes with half notes and whole notes, you will want to play a lot of arpeggios, basically playing chords one string at a time to fill in the spaces in the melody.  To see what I mean about using arpeggios to fill in the spaces, check out the version of Raisins and Almonds I posted a while back.

But your dulcimer is also a six-string dulcimer.  I have a six-string baritone dulcimette, and tend to play songs with a lot of strumming.  Fingerpicking doesn't work as well, but fast strumming is really fun with all those double strings. Think of the rhythmic role of a mandolin in a bluegrass band.  Remember, however, that you can also take off the extra strings and have a 3-string instrument.  My baritone dulcimette is currently strung only with three strings and is nice for softer, quieter tunes. In a sense, you have two instruments in one.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll find a bunch of tunes and develop your own style of playing them, something unique to you and your dulcimer.

Advent Calendar

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Sorry to hear it will not be available this year. I have really enjoyed it in the past. Hope you have a blessed holiday season and a wonderful new year.

Ron Ewing 6 string dulcimette songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

I've looked at the six strings group, but can't seem to find the replies.  I have a Ewing that I am ready to start playing on more, but was hoping for some help to find suitable tunes.   I am unhappy with some of the selections I have tried, so I'd like to have some help from experienced players.  Thank you.  I'm up for all genres.. How great thou art is amazing on this little guy by the way.