FOTMD Advisory...
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
So far so bueno!
Forum Activity for @dusty
FOTMD Advisory...
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Thanks for the "Heads up" Lisa. Best wishes for a successful move.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
FOTMD Advisory...
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Hi everyone. I thought I'd let you know that on tuesday morning April 18 we will be moving to a new server and there might possibly be temporary glitches on fotmd for an hour or so. Not to worry, it should go smoothly and this move likely won't even be noticed. -the Management. :)
Change out friction pegs?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Strumelia:
That's a great looking instrument!
So much depends on the size of the peghead (or peg box), and the overall size of the dulcimer.
Choose pegs that don't look too big or too small for the instrument. Use your eye. 👁
My 29" vsl langspil was equipped with Wittner internally geared viola pegs:
It's an imposing instrument and violin pegs would have looked silly on it.
The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
@bvmaestro -- As you've probably read, cardboard dulcimers are as cheap, and as good as you can get unless you build then yourself. If you DYI a batch of instruments you can get the cost down to about $20 each. Check out the program(s) of the Waldorf private school system...
The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Although the conversation happened a couple of years ago, I found the idea of replacing recorders with dulcimers interesting. I am finding that kids are aging with less fine motor skills. More students struggle even with the most simple recorder fingerings. I am looking at using dulcimers during my primary grades music instruction. As early as kindergarten, students will learn to count the frets (which correlates with the simple counting curriculum) while making music using the noter style. As they progress, they can learn to use fingering on the melody string to increase finger dexterity, and eventually chords. This would probably last through the second grade. At this point, then I can branch out to ukulele, recorders, guitars, etc. I will never replace recorder or ukulele, but the dulcimer will definitely prepare students for such making them invaluable in school music. Best part, kids will make music quickly and fall in love with it faster. I think I got the plan.
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Well whatever his question was, probably at least one person has answered it by now haha
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
NateBuildsToys:
Dwain please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you may have increased all those notes by an octave(or two with A5 and decreased by 1 with F3 relative to the other notes) though I am not aware of GFG being a normal tuning, perhaps you meant GDG, (one full step down from AEA or a 1-5-8 in G major?) with normal tunings being d4d4A3D3 A3A3A3D3, G3G3D3G2 which are normally notated as D-A-dd (mixolydian tuning) or D-A-AA (Ionian tuning) GDGG (baritone mixo)
Also I think you meant to say that a diatonic scale is like a piano without the black keys, not a piano without the white keys.
Dwain Wilder:
Ah! I just looked up the term "fret scale chart" and see that it is a chart showing the pitch generated at each fret position for each string. That is easy to do with an instrument with a standard string tuning schema, such as the guitar's EADGBE.
The dulcimer is an entirely different instrument in several ways:
- Players use all sorts of tunings. D5D5A5D4 and A5A5A5D4 are to very popular ones. G4G4F3G3 is another.
- Dulcimers are essentially diatonic, like a piano without black keys
- Dulcimers have different scale lengths, ranging from 24" to 28". That allows for even greater range of tunings, and various sets of strings will be found best for each dulcimer
- Dulcimer players ask for different chromatic frets (I presume that is what you're referring to as 'blue' frets). Popular 'extra' frets are the 1-1/2 6-1/2, the 8-1/2, and 13-1/2. This is a notation developed to describe the chromatic frets on a diatonic fretboard.
So the fret scale chart for a string tuned to D5 would be DFGABCD (the fret pattern of an Appalachian dulcimer is in Mixolydian mode, meaning that the 'black' keys fall between the 2nd-3rd frets,
Dwain please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you may have increased all those notes by an octave(or two with A5 and decreased by 1 with F3 relative to the other notes) though I am not aware of GFG being a normal tuning, perhaps you meant GDG, (one full step down from AEA or a 1-5-8 in G major?) with normal tunings being d4d4A3D3 A3A3A3D3, G3G3D3G2 which are normally notated as D-A-dd (mixolydian tuning) or D-A-AA (Ionian tuning) GDGG (baritone mixo)
Also I think you meant to say that a diatonic scale is like a piano without the black keys, not a piano without the white keys.
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Well it is all speculation until the original poster replies and tells us what he means by "blue notes."
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Since he's a guitar builder and probably player, I think he is referring to blues notes.That's the reason for my recommendation.
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Is he referring to BLUES notes -- which frankly can be any note at all. Or BLUE notes which would only refer to some chart/table of notes which includes some colored blue?
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Dwain Wilder:
Ah! I just looked up the term "fret scale chart" and see that it is a chart showing the pitch generated at each fret position for each string. That is easy to do with an instrument with a standard string tuning schema, such as the guitar's EADGBE.
The dulcimer is an entirely different instrument in several ways:
- Players use all sorts of tunings. D5D5A5D4 and A5A5A5D4 are to very popular ones. G4G4F3G3 is another.
- Dulcimers are essentially diatonic, like a piano without white keys
- Dulcimers have different scale lengths, ranging from 24" to 28". That allows for even greater range of tunings, and various sets of strings will be found best for each dulcimer
- Dulcimer players ask for different chromatic frets (I presume that is what you're referring to as 'blue' frets). Popular 'extra' frets are the 1-1/2 6-1/2, the 8-1/2, and 13-1/2. This is a notation developed to describe the chromatic frets on a diatonic fretboard.
So the fret scale chart for a string tuned to D5 would be DFGABCD (the fret pattern of an Appalachian dulcimer is in Mixolydian mode, meaning that the 'black' keys fall between the 2nd-3rd frets,
Dwain please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you may have increased all those notes by an octave(or two with A5 and decreased by 1 with F3 relative to the other notes) though I am not aware of GFG being a normal tuning, perhaps you meant GDG, (one full step down from AEA or a 1-5-8 in G major?) with normal tunings being d4d4A3D3 A3A3A3D3, G3G3D3G2 which are normally notated as D-A-dd (mixolydian tuning) or D-A-AA (Ionian tuning) GDGG (baritone mixo)
Also I think you meant to say that a diatonic scale is like a piano without the black keys, not a piano without the white keys.
updated by @nate: 04/13/23 02:47:08AM
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Woodworm cigarbox guitars:
can someone help me with a fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer.
Preferably with the blue notes
Ah! I just looked up the term "fret scale chart" and see that it is a chart showing the pitch generated at each fret position for each string. That is easy to do with an instrument with a standard string tuning schema, such as the guitar's EADGBE.
The dulcimer is an entirely different instrument in several ways:
- Players use all sorts of tunings. D5D5A5D4 and A5A5A5D4 are to very popular ones. G4G4F3G3 is another.
- Dulcimers are essentially diatonic, like a piano without white keys
- Dulcimers have different scale lengths, ranging from 24" to 28". That allows for even greater range of tunings, and various sets of strings will be found best for each dulcimer
- Dulcimer players ask for different chromatic frets (I presume that is what you're referring to as 'blue' frets). Popular 'extra' frets are the 1-1/2 6-1/2, the 8-1/2, and 13-1/2. This is a notation developed to describe the chromatic frets on a diatonic fretboard.
So the fret scale chart for a string tuned to D5 would be DFGABCD (the fret pattern of an Appalachian dulcimer is in Mixolydian mode, meaning that the 'black' keys fall between the 2nd-3rd frets,
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
I believe he is referring to the 1.5 and 4.5 frets, the 1.5 I think is the minor pentatonic blue note in D, both allow for the melody string to play a d minor scale, the .5 fret also helps with minor scale chords
updated by @nate: 04/12/23 11:37:06PM
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Woodworm cigarbox guitars:
can someone help me with a fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer.
Preferably with the blue notes
Your best option may be to make it chromatic. The frets are basically located using the same procedures as you use making a guitar. If you decide to use the dulcimers diatonic fret placement, you will need to 'bend' notes to get the blue notes. You may want to study the MD fret board before making a final decision although the extra frets can be installed later. Or build two, one diatonic, one chromatic.
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
What, exactly do you mean by "blue notes". With dulcimer there are the basic diatonic frets, diatonic frets plus one or two extras, or full chromatic frets like a guitar. In 40 + years of messing about with dulcimers I've never heard the terem "blue notes",
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
Are you asking for a list of fret measurements for chromatic frets? The stew mac calculator can be set to 'electric guitar' and will then show placement for all 12 frets in an octave.
Are you asking for a chart which shows scale degrees and how to fret them? I am not aware of one for chromatic, but this chart has the diatonic frets and you could add onto this yourself.
https://everythingdulcimer.com/tab/chord_chart_dad_major.pdf
For every fret that is not included on this chart, you can identify it's note, then identify the notes of the other frets you are playing and with a chart like this
https://www.michael-thomas.com/music/class/chords_notesinchords.htm
you can determine what chords you are making with these frets. So whichever frets you have, I promise it's a pretty quick process to transcribe your fretboard into a chart of scale degrees in various keys or letter notes.
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
I have a fret calculator spreadsheet, if you use MS Excel. Stew-Mac has one too, but doesn't allow you to specify extra frets. Mine shows all extra frets.
I can't attach a spreadsheet file here, but send me a private note with an email addy and I'll send the spredsheet. MS Excel 2016 or later needed.
fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer
Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions
can someone help me with a fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer.
Preferably with the blue notes
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Nate, here is a link to a short piece from the Smithsonian Institution on how to build a hammered dulcimer.
https://www.si.edu/spotlight/hammered-dulcimer/hdmake
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
For anyone interested in learning about the hammered dulcimer, I recommend this book The Hammered Dulcimer A History by Paul M. Gifford which was published by Scarecrow Press. The book is no longer available new. When I looked for it in the used market, it is even more expensive that when I bought it new; $65 then and almost twice that now. In my opinion it is well worth the price to those who have a genuine interest in this instrument. If you just want to read it, see if your local library can get it for you.
On the "scheitholt" issue, I in addition to placing the blame on Praetorius, we can also place the blame of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC for displaying a zitter and calling it a scheitholt without extensively researching the history of the instrument and on Jean Ritchie for taking it at face value and repeating it in one of her books. The same instrument is still in the collection at the MMA, but is now called a zither.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Note: you must have a YouTube account to chat.
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
robert schuler:
I saw my first hammered dulcimer in a 1972 issue of Singout magazine. I went back and read it again only to get lost in all the other great stories from folks long gone and others now very old. It gave no history just a how to build our own for $5.
I can't add anything about its origins but I did build one 17 years ago. I keep it in my dining room always handy to play whenever I pass by...Robert
Do you by any chance still have this article? I am sure i could find an online resource for how to build one but I have become very fascinated with how people would convey building ideas over print. The first dulcimer I built was from a Reader's Digest "traditional skills" book. It did not explain anything nearly enough, but my un-intonated dulcimer with absurdly high action did sound so bad it made me want to actually learn about building dulcimers, out of desire to produce something better.
Anyway, if possible I'd really appreciate a photo of this article, or details that could help me find a digital copy of it.
Thanks
Nate
2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Thank you, Robin.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
@ken-longfield I had no idea about your wife's serious surgery and am sorry the recovery has been a difficult one. I will be praying for you both.
2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Thanks for posting this Robin. I would have posted this information in Events, but with my wife's open heart surgery and difficult recovery I just haven't had the time to participate in our dulcimer forums as much I as I usually do. I'm waiting to see if she will be discharged from the hospital today and go to a rehab facility.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Ah, that's cool Robin. It can be listed here even though it's an online event, there have been quite a few online festivals and gatherings in fotmd's event section during the past 3 years of pandemic.
Last year's floods were such a terrible blow for so many in that area.
2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
I believe this year's fest is online only except for those who can travel locally. Much work is being done in Hindman following last year's destructive flooding of Troublesome Creek.
2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Sounds like a great gathering!
Maybe next year one of the organizers could plan ahead to post it in our main Events section here on FOTMD. There are a lot of noter players here who might be interested in going.
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
I saw my first hammered dulcimer in a 1972 issue of Singout magazine. I went back and read it again only to get lost in all the other great stories from folks long gone and others now very old. It gave no history just a how to build our own for $5.
I can't add anything about its origins but I did build one 17 years ago. I keep it in my dining room always handy to play whenever I pass by...Robert
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
For those interested in such historical details concerning (especially) the hammered dulcimer, I highly recommend the thesis by the late David Kettlewell, downloadable at :
https://repository.lboro.ac.uk/articles/thesis/The_dulcimer/9332858
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
Those are really interesting details Dulcidom. I didn't mean to suggest that dulcimers were named after hammered dulcimers during the folk revival, I have just observed that the communities of fretted and hammered dulcimer players seem to maybe have become interwoven around that time. It makes some sense to me that many uncommon folk instruments would end up falling under that culture (zithers, wood flutes, etc)
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
We now know that the term "Scheitholt" was more or less invented by Michael Praetorius in his masterwork De Organographia, in 1618 which described the instruments of Europe at that time. The term is actually the Austrian slang "holts scheit" meaning 'firewood' and referred to a specific boxy form of fretted zither found only in the Tyrol district of Austria. That's like calling all mountain dulcimers Ozark Walking Sticks or Tennessee Music Boxes regardless of shape or place.
Scheitholt was never used to refer to the 'ancestral' fretted zithers of Pennsylvania, where the instruments were correctly referred to as "zithers" or "zitters" by the locals.
updated by @ken-hulme: 03/30/23 07:19:53AM
Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?
General mountain dulcimer or music discussions
If I may add a few details....
Reading the excellent books by Ralph Lee Smith: "The Story of the Dulcimer" and especially "Appalachian Dulcimer Traditions" clearly shows that the name "dulcimer" (or "dulcimore " and other variations) was already in use for the fretted dulcimer well before (at least a century) the folk revival of the 1970s. I have a little personal hypothesis about this strange disambiguation of the two types of dulcimers :
The King James I Bible, first published in 1611, quickly became the version authorized by the Church of England. The passages that interest us are in the book of Daniel: 5, 10 and 15.:
"Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made".
In this text, "dulcimer" is used to translate the Aramaic word "sumponiah", itself derived from the Greek "symphonia" (in fact, a kind of bagpipe), which the translators did not really know what to do with at the time. It was therefore the (hammered) dulcimer, very fashionable at the time, which saved them the day, thereby making this instrument an instrument of biblical times.
In the depths of Appalaches, with practically only the Bible to read, the hardy pioneers also found themselves in the embarrassment of baptizing the youngest of the family of alpine zithers, derived from the unpronounceable Dutch "scheitholt" or "zither". It was necessary to accompany the hymns, an instrument accepted by the Church, unlike the violin (the devil's box). What's better than an instrument name quoted in the Holy Scriptures? And there you have it, the Appalachian "dulcimer".
Homonymy was not a problem for almost two hundred years, when the two instruments had well separated geographical domains. It was only after the Second World War and the folk revival and the arrival of Jean Ritchie (the damsel with a dulcimer) in New York that the need for two distinct qualifiers arose : the hammered dulcimer and the pinched/plucked/fretted/lap dulcimer...
Of course, it's nothing but a(nother) hypothesis. Sorry if I was a bit long.