Forum Activity for @nate

I've heard it said that the closer to the midpoint, the more freely the string can excite overtone frequencies. The way it was explained to me is that when the string is divided into two lengths on either side of your plectrum, whichever length is shorter will limit the overtones of the longer one, and therefore the greater the difference between the two lengths, the more the fundamental is emphasized, whereas the closer the two lengths are to equal, the more overtones are emphasized.

Looks like a McSpadden. They often had their name stamped below the bridge area. Most likely a kit.

I was wondering if any of my friends recognize this builder. There is no tag inside the dulcimer so I'm thinking it is a homemade. That scroll head is pretty distinctive, though. Thank you for your help!

 Dulcimer Scroll Head 2.jpg - 96KB

If I understand you, @johnr, by "middle" you mean at half the string's length, or the octave (7th fret on a dulcimer, 12th fret on all those chromatic instruments).  We would normally say you get a "warmer" or "softer" tone there than you do towards the bridge, where the tone is usually described as "brighter."  So the warmer tone corresponds to what you describe as "purer" based on the sound waves.  By "purer" do you mean that there are fewer waves that bunch together to make a note?

How did you pluck or strum the string?  Whether you use a plectrum or bare fingers also affects the tone in ways that I assume you could measure.

FOTMD is where IADD was conceived.  

In response to Dusty's "How Do You Measure Tone Mathematically" - I would call it more of a description.  A very simple, perfectly pure tone for a specific note would be a wave.   Real tones are actually built from a bunch of waves which are related to a basic wave which corresponds to the note.  The relative strengths of those tones are the basically the heights of the waves.   Mathematically these satisfy a partial differential equation which is known as (TA DA) the vibrating string equation (or wave equation).   The remaining part is how these waves get going.  That's what happens when you pluck a string.  What I was able to show, mathematically, is that where (near the end or near the middle) matters.  Closer to the middle gives a purer tone.  I think that's what dulcimer players intuited a long time ago.

@robin-thompson Yup. I'd say you folks got the ball rolling, and now it's gathering some momentum. I tell everybody that the dulcimer is a more logical first stringed instrument than the guitar, so it makes good sense.

@ken-longfield Thanks ... and you're very welcome!

Sam, thanks for the information about Brandi's song and for the link to Tim Hanseroth-- I'd watched that some time ago yet hadn't looked at it lately.

Participation in IADD came from different countries-- Ireland, England, Australia, US, and, perhaps, other countries of which I'm unaware.  So glad to see many places represented!  

Sam, that was a delightful video segment. You and the reporter did a fine job. Thanks for your help in promoting IADD.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Hi, friends - Thanks for bringing up my TV appearance Friday! I'll admit that I'm normally not a big fan of "Hallmark holidays," but dulcimers are a cause that deserves the publicity. I didn't realize its origin was so closely tied to this thread and these people!

@robin-thompson Brandi and the twins are listed as the three writers of the song. It came out of the pandemic and is about Brandi's relationship with her wife and daughters. (I also see the song as her version of Big Yellow Taxi, except that the relationship is a strong, positive one.) They decided not to use the dulcimer on the record, feeling it would be "too Joni, so she plays the riff on guitar, but I had to see video to convince myself it wasn't really a dulcimer.

Here's an IG video of Tim playing a bit.https://www.instagram.com/timhanseroth/reel/CkM6mWlsjMj/

@dusty Thanks - I got a kick out of their "Dulcimer expert" label, too!

By the way, the reporter in the news segment was very good. Before we went on, she asked me the pronunciations of Appalachian, dulcimer, and my name.

Thanks so much for this insight! I got some strings locally and strung it up yesterday and it sounds amazing! :)

In the scientific discipline of organology, the study of musical instruements, the dulcimer is by definition a "plucked box zither" and therefore, by definition, if the fretboard extends beyond the body of the instrument, it can no longer be considered a dulcimer and would therefore be a lute.  That being said, in layman's parlance, many instruments which do not fit the organological definition are considered by many to still be dulcimers.  Historically some dulcimers were played with a bow rather than plucked, although Ken Bloom's "bowed dulcimers" resemble a gamba more than a traditional dulcimer.  Builders like Gary Gallier extend the fret board past the body which gives the instrument a more guitar like sound, but it plays exactly like a traditional dulcimer.  Chromatic fretboards are way older than some folks seem to think, and do not affect whether the instrument is considered a dulcimer from an organological standpoint.  Personally I think a picking stick goes too far and really can't be considered a dulcimer at all.  The "dulcijo" or "banjamer" is a hybrid and also really must be considered a separate instrument since the resonating surface is no longer dependent on being a "box", but is now a membrane instrument like a banjo, rummelpot or a drum.

Happy day after IADD, y'all!  

@dusty Thanks for the kind words!  We made our usual put-someone-to-sleep type of tune only recorded with a camera.  (We hadn't made a video in a year or two because our uploads took many hours.  Our cable internet is better now.)  I love your Freddy Fender cover!  In my mind's eye, I see him with his thick dark hair and wearing a purple suit.  So cool you covered one of his songs! 

@sam-edelston Such a great spot, Sam, and I'm glad you got to promote your album (it's a very cool album)!  I'm guessing one of the Hanseroth twins was the composer of the Brandi Carlile song.  It was a nice one to end the spot.  

@steve-c Many thanks for sharing the link for Sam's interview!  

@sam-edelston is a rock star, for sure! 

I like the title they give him on TV: "musician and dulcimer expert."  I want that on my business card.

Sam Edelston on tv for International Appalachian Dulcimer Day! : https://www.wtnh.com/video/celebrating-international-appalachian-dulcimer-day/10580088/

Robin Thompson: It's IADD!  

https://youtu.be/bWp82g_V59o?si=EvOWqAbxDgE1YAUU

That's beautiful playing, Robin. Your sensitive approach to the noter is second to none.  Peace and goodwill to you, too.

Well I was able to make a video using Clipchamp for the first time, but YouTube only let me upload it as a short.  If it ain't one thing . . .

https://youtube.com/shorts/rKRztEXOx8E?feature=share

Many thanks, @katiewaller!  I hope you've had a chance to join in on the celebration of IADD! 

@dusty That's just cool you were the mystery guest for Send in the Music!  I'm sure your play was wonderful and enjoyed by all your audience! 

Happy IADD, everyone.  I tried to record a video last night using OBS studio, but the audio came out distorted.  I'll try again using different software a bit later.

However, I was the mystery guest at Pat Clark's Send in the Music today.  She will post the video soon, if it's not already up.  Today is also the 5th anniversary of Send in the Music, so lots to celebrate.  I was kind of nervous and my playing was pretty spotty, but here was my set: Reel de l'Oiseau Bleu, Cheticamp, Linstead Market, All in a Garden Green, Lady Gethin, Fishin' Blues, and an original, Safe Haven.

The lower instrument in my photo on the left is one I made a few years ago. The VSL is about 15 inches and it has a standard string set. It is tuned to DAA, but an octave above normal - A = 440.

It has a nice sound, but I have hardly played it. I had in mind that t might be used in an ensemble for adding accent on a second verse, or whatever. I haven't had an opportunity to try that with our group.

Apologies.  My wife and I are not tech savvy and can't seem to attach photos.  But, your comments have been very helpful.  Thanks again for your kind assistance.

@johnr , that is 'too cool for school'!  Something very much to be proud about.

And thank you for supporting FOTMD as well... so kind of you!  

This sounds more like an epinette or maybe even some other instrument than a mountain dulcimer (a ukelin, a psaltery?). The length of the whole instrument is 17"... that is reeeally short. And we don't even know the scale length. Is there any possibility you can attach a photo if it here?

Doubling the octave (7th fret) is a good way to estimate where to start from, but on an instrument that small he will need a lot more fine adjustment to the bridge beyond that.

In terms of where to place the saddle, double the measurement from the seven fret.  I think John was dead on with his estimate of VSL.

Way cool, @nate!  I'll keep my eyes open for your video!  

So far, I've seen music shared from England, Ireland, and TN in the US.  The more places represented, the merrier!  Music does, indeed, make the world a better place.  

While I agree with your sentiment of not overthinking it, Matt, a micro dulcimer does warrant extra consideration.
We don't even know his VSL or what he considers "standard" so surely some complication is required.

If you wish to use regular strings, you will need to tune them one octave higher than a standard dulcimer.  Don't make things too complicated.

Indeed it is Robin! I just got my first three aquavina dulcimers back! At various times I have given them away to people, but today, after offering various people newer and better dulcimers in exchange to get the old ones back, I now have the prototype, the beta test, and the alpha test, and im looking forward making a quick video of the three!

It's IADD!  

https://youtu.be/bWp82g_V59o?si=EvOWqAbxDgE1YAUU

Congratulations, that's awesome. Since I likely wouldn't be able to interpret the paper even if I could access it,(math and I are like nodes and anti nodes ) are there any insights you could share about the ideal place to strum, based on your findings?

Congrats, John.  I was able to locate a summary and your bio, but Taylor & Francis won't let me see the whole text.  My library has a four-year delay for full-text articles of that particular journal. That's OK. I learned a little about you and can see from the summary that I really wouldn't understand the text anyway.  I may request it through Interlibrary Loan just to add to the dulcimer library.

How do you measure tone mathematically?  It seems like such a subjective quality.

1) If you were to use normal strings, you would want to tune them higher than normal. If you were to tune the strings normally on an instrument that is too short, the strings won't have enough tension, resulting in a floppy feel and a weaker sound. A common tuning for short scale dulcimers using normal strings is to tune up from D to G. This would be Gdd or Gdg, rather than Daa or Dad, but you may need to tune it even higher.

2) if you want to play in standard tuning, you will need strings of a heavier gauge than normal.

3) This is a bit more complicated of a topic that may require more nuanced explanation, but this is the process that I personally use:
First, measure the distance between the nut and the 7th fret. The VSL is exactly double that distance, before adjusting for intonation. Make a temporary mark at this distance for your "estimated" bridge placement.
Next you will need to cut your bridge to the correct height. The correct height can be determined using the "nickel and dime" method, which is explained in other threads on this website.
String up the instrument, place the bridge at the 'estimated' correct distance, and tune up the strings. Tune the string up until it is perfectly in tune with the target note, then pluck the string at the 7th fret and note whether the "octave note" is sharp or flat. If the octave note is flat when the root note is perfectly in tune, the bridge needs to be moved slightly closer to the nut. If the octave note is sharp when the root note is perfectly in tune, the bridge needs to be moved slightly farther from the nut.
Detune the strings, adjust the bridge slightly, then tune back up and check again. When all three strings are perfectly in tune at the root note, and perfectly in tune at the octave fret (or as close as you can reasonably get it) the bridge is now in it's correct placement.

Points to ponder.... If your instrument is 17.25 inches over all, I'm supposing some of that length is headstock and tail? So perhaps we're dealing with a VSL of 13-14 ish?  Most mandolins are about 14 inches VSL [They tune G3-D4-A5-E5] So perhaps a set of mando strings could be a starting point? And you get a few spares.... Your tuning can be the same notes as any other dulcimer, but you are going to be in a HIGHER OCTAVE generally.

With your bridge placed where it looks "right", string and tune 1 open string to pitch. Going to the 1st fret and so forth, your notes should progress in step, if not, re position bridge, re tune and try again. Once you are good to the first fret, move on down and fine adjust down the line. Once you're good with one string, go and string up the rest. With a VSL this short, there is not a lot of forgiveness.

If you are able, a picture or two of this "mini" would be appreciated.

I like this bridge design, and the type of sound they seem to produce. A bit less nasally than a bridge sitting on the fingerboard, and less round than a bridge on the soundboard. I've built a couple bridges like this, and I just wish I saw this one beforehand, because it would have saved me some time on the drawing board lol.

The nut and headstock are also very cool.

I just purchased a used four string instrument.  What's interesting is it's about 17 1/4 inches overall length.  It needs strings so my questions are: 

1)  Will a standard set of dulcimer strings suffice or should this smaller instrument be equipped with strings specifically designed for the short VSL?

2)  Will standard tuning work or should I tune this instrument different than a full-size dulcimer?

3)  It's missing its bridge so I'll have to make one.  There is no groove or anything else to indicate the original bridge placement.  How can I determine where to position the bridge?

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

There are bowed dulcimers

Very cool, @johnr!