Forum Activity for @greatlakes73

Hi folks, I'm a relative beginner to the dulcimer. I am drawn to noter/drone playing and have a lovely Dan Cox dulcimore I generally keep in DAA and play solo. I also have a recent Warren May in poplar with (I think) a 6.5 fret but no other additional; I use this when playing with my group. I usually keep this in DAD and without a noter (although occasionally will use one). 

First question: I don't really know what the "temperament" of the May is, and if that makes a difference if I tune it to DAA or other configurations. I don't really understand temperament I guess.

Second question: Ron Ewing is building me a dulcimer right now, and I'd like it to be as versatile as possible- good with various tunings, good for noter-drone, finger style and maybe simple chording. Besides a 6.5 fret, should I get a 13.5? A 1.5? I'm somewhat a traditionalist but would like to not limit my options too much early on. I  am certain however that I'm never going to want to be playing tons of chords (having failed at guitar, banjo and ukulele!) but also it's prob easier to add frets in the future than take them away.

could be there's no "Goldilocks" but just wanting input from folks who know more than me! Ron, if you're reading this post, please be patient with my questions 😉

On August 23, 2006 David Schnaufer died after a long struggle with various health issues and a final battle with Cancer.  I think it is safe to say that many of us would have never heard of the Mountain Dulcimer had it not been for his remarkable genius.  He is greatly missed by many of us and was well known by some of the people who regularly contribute to this site.  I think I'll set some time aside Saturday the 23rd to play a tune or two in his honor.........how about you?

Thanks so very much!  You're the best, Robin.

I hope I'm humble enough to refrain from calling my work "groundbreaking," but I'm delighted that you did.  I would call it "different."  Possible reasons:

1) I'm a classically trained composer and have taught composition for almost 50 years.

2) I'm totally self-taught on dulcimer, which is now my main instrument.  I've been playing for about ten years, guitar, bass, ukulele, mandolin before.

3) I'm seriously left-handed, but have always played all my instruments right-handed.

4) I have pretty eclectic tastes, that include all manner of American, world, and classical music.

Streaming soon!  I so appreciate you, Robin, and this wonderful community.

Alex, truly, you have a groundbreaking work here!  I listen to cds in the car and, today, listened to this impeccable work.  

@Debi, you should know, first of all, that 26.5 is not considered a "longer" scale length.  I would say "longer" would only apply when you get to 28".  Second, your fingers will stretch.  That 1-2-4 A chord might be a challenge at first to play on a 26.5" scale length, but you will be able to do it, and over time your fingers will stretch and strengthen and it will get easier.  Third, there are always workarounds for chording if you really can't reach a chord. Instead of 1-2-4, you could play 1-0-4 or 4-4-4, assuming you need that 4th fret on the melody string for the melody.  If you are only strumming chords, then 1-0-1 will work as well, or 4-4-6+.

I only use the 1-2-4 chord as an example because it is the hardest stretch of all the "normal" chords on a dulcimer tuned 1-5-8 such as DAd.  But the same principle applies to other chords and chord shapes as well.  There are always alternatives.

Thank you, Strumelia. I think it is helpful for people to have a visual example. I remember years ago a Folkcraft catalog had a pull out section that showed the difference in various vibrating string lengths they offered. I can't remember whether that was under David's or Richard's ownership. I probably have it in a file somewhere. I guess I'll look for it when I get the time. I have an old Windows program, WFret, that prints out a fret board diagram for you. I've thought of printing out different vsl fret boards and pasting them on poster board so people can see the actual distances. It might be a good rainy or snow day project for this coming winter.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Wow @ken-longfield , that is amazing!  

Perhaps these calculations will be helpful to see the differences in distances between frets on a 24 vs. 26.5 vsl. I used the Stew-Mac fret calculator for this.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song.

Thx to everyone who responded.  Your suggestions were most helpful and encouraging!    I will look for those hand stretching exercises that were mentioned.   

Streaming soon on all your favorite platforms:

https://jazzweekly.com/2025/08/stories-not-for-the-faint-of-heartalex-lubet-amy-levy-songs-of-love-and-loss-professor-girlfriend-my-mother-in-love-the-summer-sessions/

The new website looks really nice John.

I'm in Frisco TX a little north of Dallas. Buyer pays shipping. 

John, the redo of the website looks good. It is easy to navigate and provides good descriptions and other information. You and your customers do a fine job of playing your instruments.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Your website is informative, not just a sales piece. I like the inclusion of the videos of most of your varieties letting viewers hear them.

Have a look at my website if you need a historic reproduction of a dulcimer (or "dulcimore") made for your enjoyment.  These are noter-drone dulcimers, made just like the ones you read and hear about from time to time. www.knopfdulcimers.com

what a bout your shipping arrangenments and cost? where are you located?

Here's a bunch of dulcimer books. $10 each or $50 for the whole set.

 chord book.jpg - 282KB

I've got some dulcimer building resources I'm selling for $50 as a set. Two are full blown construction books, one is an article from Fine Woodworking and two relate to its history and various designs. I also have full scale plans for an hourglass dulcimer, not pictured. 

 appliacian dulcimer.jpg - 316KB

Thanks all for your response.  I don't post a lot but I've learned much due to your posts.

Great advice from both Richard and Ken!

BTW lubricating the gears will not make the tuners less likely to hold tension when tuned. While that might be true of wooden tuning pegs, these geared ones don't function that way. So, no fears there.

You are on the right track. First see if it moves better after you loosen the screw. You might start with an 1/8th or 1/4th turn. If it turns well and doesn't slip after reaching the proper pitch. If that doesn't work, tighten the screw until the string holds under tension. Now try lubricating the tuner with either graphite or a dry silicone spray. I prefer the first as the silicone spray can get on the finish and harm it. You may need to turn the peg completely around many times. Oh, you could also clean the peg with either a commercial degreaser and/ or denatured alcohol. This best done with tuners off of the dulcimer. Hope this helps.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

The problem is likely related to the vintage of the dulcimer. That is a long time and things can dry out over time.

I have taken some similar tuners apart. On the one I had apart grease had dried over time behind the gear. And the gear was dragging a good bit on the screw going through it. I took it apart, cleaned everything up and reassembled with a very light coat of light sewing machine oil. The tightness of the screw through the gear plays a part in the tuner holding its place.

I helped a friend diagnosis his cheap foreign made dulcimer and in his case the worm threads on the shaft with knob were badly worn. That tuning machine needed to be replaced.

Replacements are available. I am not that familiar with  different brands. Some require different size holes through the wall of the peghead. Perhaps a local guitar center could help you  with parts if replacement is needed.

I play with a dulcimer club located in Fairhope, Al and today I was assisting a young lady in tuning her dulcimer.  She has a beautiful Folkcraft dulcimer which as an excellent voice.  The dulcimer is of the vintage when Folkcraft's company was located in Connecticut.  The issue is the instrument is hard to tune because the tuners are extremely hard to turn.  Attached please find a photo of the tuners for your reference.

I have no experience with these tuners so I thought I'd ask the experts before I screw them up.  My thoughts are I could loosen the screw going through the gear or possibly put graphite under the gear but my concern is doing something that would make the instrument unable to hold tune.  Your advice is appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Jim

 PXL_20250808_162122599.jpg - 146KB

Nate makes a great point- just because the entire lengthh of the vsl between nut and bridge is a substantial 2.5" longer, that doesn't mean the chord stretches for your fingers will be 2.5" longer. The distance between frets you are using in a chord will be a modest amount longer.

Do you know anyone with a regular length dulcimer you can try out? ('regular' usually meaning somewhere between 26 - 28.5" vsl)
I have found that very often beginner players are solidly convinced they will not be able to make stretches that later on they discover are actually do-able.

Something else to keep in mind...  assuming you wish to tune both dulcimers to the same key and the same notes on your strings, you may have to use slightly thinner gauge strings on a 26.5" vsl dulcimer than on a 24" dulcimer. (Not sure if you are currently using heavy-ish strings now on your 24" scale dulcimer, and you also haven't said what keys you usually play in on your shorter dulcimers).
OR, you could take the opportunity to designate the new longer dulcimer to be play tuned down to a lower key, like maybe to the key of C instead of in D.
All this depends on your personal music goals and needs.

I don't think the difference between 24 and 26.5 is that huge. Long stretches like a 1-2-4 chord might be about 1/2 inch further. I would say that hand stretching exercises may be a good way to overcome that extra little bit of reach you'll need.
Personally, I prefer shorter VSL instruments for chording, but when I do play longer dulcimers, it doesn't take too long for my hands to get used to reaching just a little bit further.

I'm assuming you mostly play in DAd tuning?
Are you able to concentrate more on playing the melody notes without necessarily playing the full chords of the song you are playing? Perhaps some of the 3 finger chords you use can be played with only two of the strings strummed, avoiding strumming the third note of the chord altogether?

Another thought- people who do what's called 'fingerdancing' are sort of replicating noter style play but using their fingers .  This can be done over several strings, and you can learn to incorporate a little of that style and perhaps train yourself to play more the melody and less full chording. Not sure if i described this well or not.

I'll also mention that doing hand and finger stretching exercises actually CAN over time extend the distance that your fingers can stretch to make a chord. And such hand stretching exercises are supposed to be good for your hands and their dexterity.

Couldn't resist....sorry...

 longvsl.png - 271KB

Hi Folks,      

Hope everyone is doing well.  I am interested in suggestions for someone who normally plays a 24 to max 25 VSL dulcimer and wish to get a specific instrument that has a 26.5 VSL.  As much as I appreciate noter style of playing, I primarily am a chord melody player.  I am looking for any suggestions as to alternative ways to play a longer VSL without killing my hands.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions that you are able to offer.  

Hi Cindy! We lived aboard several different sailboats for many years. I really miss sailing, having sailed from Hawaii to Alaska and all over the place! We currently have a trawler, a Ranger Tugs 31. Great for the type of causing we've done in BC and now in NY and Ontario. Yes, it is totally possible to bring a dulcimer with you on your boat! For this summer I have a McSpadden Ginger with me but I'd like to bring a full-size standard next summer. Connie Allen was a hand on a schooner and always had a dulcimer with her. Another friend lives aboard and has her standard dulcimer onboard. It's fun to sit out in the cockpit while underway - sailing or trawler - and play, or at anchor.  

Welcome to Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer. Glad you joined. Best wishes on your restoration project. Please ask as you have questions. We are here to support each other.

I read once about how some of the words, phrases, sentence structures, and pronunciations of what today might be considered to be a "mountain hillbilly" way of speaking... evolved directly from old Gaelic language.

Cecil Sharpe, who traveled through Appalachia over a century ago, was also struck by the number of old English ballads being sung in the region.  I do not find it surprising.

People tell stories.  Perhaps not all people, but all peoples.  Nowadays, we read books, watch TV or movies, or listen to the radio or podcasts or whatever. But before modern mass media, stories were oral, and some of those stories came in the form of songs.  A ballad is just a song that tells a story.  I don't find it surprising either that Jean Ritchie's family sang so many ballads or that so many of those ballads were ancient ones from the old world.  Old stories still have something to teach us, even stories from distant lands long ago.  Even if only implicitly, they tell us who we are and where we came from.  We still read and tell stories from the Bible, from the ancient world, from Elizabethan England, and so forth.  The ballads the Ritchie family sung were just part of the cultural repertoire they inherited, shared, and passed on.

What makes American folk music so rich, I think, is that those English ballads mixed here with other traditions: African-American field hollers and blues, work songs, native American chanting, Caribbean syncopation, spirituals, sea shanties, railroad songs, cowboy songs, etc.  And the music was not merely replicated, but expanded upon and rendered "modern" through new lyrics, new chords, new rhythms and tempos.  The Irish ballad The Wexford Girl was given new lyrics as the Knoxville Girl to tell the story of an American murder.  The Scottish song about migration to North America, The Bold Princess Royal, was given new lyrics as Sweet Betsy from Pike, the story of westward migration in the United States.  Rosin the Beau was used for the campaign song Lincoln and Liberty, the abolitionist Roll on Liberty Ball, and the song about settling in the Pacific Northwest, Acres and Acres of Clams.  But even when we add modern lyrics and chords to an old ballad, we still, as is the case with Rosin the Beau, sometimes sing the original versions as well.  Just because Bob Dylan wrote great lyrics to Fare Thee Well doesn't mean no one sings The Leaving of Liverpool anymore.  Just because Elvis made lots of cash with Love Me Tender doesn't mean people don't sing Aura Lee from time to time.

Ballads served as "entertainment," as @john-c-knopf says, but they were also news, biographies, moral fables, histories, and so much more.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons people might be drawn to older music and stories, but it is not surprising to me at all.  We still find Barbara Allen to be a compelling ballad, just as we find Antony and Cleopatra to be a compelling tragedy.

Jill, Unfortunately I don’t have a Warren May dulcimer, but you got my curiosity up about your boat.  Just wondering what you have and do you live onboard?

We have an old sailboat that is a “project”.  We are nearing the end of items that we needed to finish,  We don’t live onboard - we are mainly afternoon sailors.  I have thought it would be fun to take a dulcimer along and play out n the water.  Will see 🎶 😉.

If memory serves, many songs in the Ritchie family came from "Uncle Jason" and Jean wrote of this in Singing Family of the Cumberlands .

https://blogs.loc.gov/folklife/2015/06/jean-ritchie-1922-2015/  

Here is a link for the Jean Ritchie group here at FOTMD: 

https://fotmd.com/strumelia/group/24/fans-of-jean-ritchie

Thanks, John, very insightful.

I listened to her rendition of Barbry Allan this morning and was taken by her ending every verse on scale step 2.  I kept thinking that perhaps she might resolve it in the final verse, but she did not, which was perhaps fitting, given the lyrics.

Alex, I think it was for family continuity and for entertainment in a time where computers, TVs and to some extent radio was non-existent.  Folks had to have entertainment of SOME kind, and this was an enjoyable way to spend some family time.

One thing I've noticed is how many of these songs dealt with disasters, death, sickness, loss of dear ones, etc.  Theirs was a hard existence in a hilly country that made farming and life in general very difficult.  The tunes often were in minor keys as well.

Hi,

A good week to you all.

I've been doing a deep dive into Jean Ritchie lately, for the dulcimer of course, but also for the words of the ballads.  What has struck me is that so many of these songs were even centuries old and from distant lands.  You all know this, of course.  But I find it so interesting that Kentucky folk would preserve lyrics that were so far removed from their day to day life.  We're all glad they did, but one must also wonder why.  (Needless to say, new songs were being composed as well.)

Does anyone who knows more about this than me have any insights they'd like to share?  That would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance and have a great week.

Thanks!