Forum Activity for @royb

Susie, I have several guitars and ukuleles on my walls, but only two dulcimers. I guess I need to remedy that!

I will second this, and will add that their varying sizes come in handy for different applications....playing at home, taking to a festival, going in an RV, etc. Depending on where I'm playing and if I will be playing with others, I decide which one to grab. Also, you can have them tuned differently.  Not to mention the beauty of dulcimers.....different woods and appointments.  So, as you can see, we NEED many dulcimers.

RoyB, one of the things I love about mountain dulcimer is what you've observed-- how different they each can sound.  

Quote:The interesting thing is that virtually identical dulcimers from the same builder -- dimensions, materials, finish etc -- can, usually do, sound different from each other.

Ken, this last part of your response is interesting.  Guitar manufacturers, I believe, go for the opposite.  Taylor in particular, from what I understand, with its increased standardization and automated processes, strives for identical instruments of a certain model.  If you purchase X model guitar, you should expect a certain feel and sound out of it.  Smaller luthier shops of course are different, as would be individual dulcimer makers.  I like the idea of each instrument having its own individual voice and character.

VERY COMMON.  You have two instruments with different internal volumes.  That is a major factor in the sound -- just as it is in your guitar and uke.  Apples and tangerines as it were.  There are hundreds... maybe a thousand factors which affect the overall sound of a dulcimer. Among them: 

volume of body
area of sound holes
VSL
number of strings
plain vs wound strings
string tensions
where the bridge sets relative to the endblock
total mass of vibrating wood
mass of fretboard
area of top and back available to vibrate
internal bracing
kind of finish
mass of finish
external muffling (lap/arms)
thickness of top/back/sides
material the nut & bridge are made of, and, oh yeah
wood species 

... to name just a few.  

The interesting thing is that virtually identical dulcimers from the same builder -- dimensions, materials, finish etc -- can, usually do, sound different from each other.

Just a general observation about my experiences so far.  I have an old, handmade 28.5" VSL 3 string instrument tuned Aeolian at CGA#, and an Apple Creek 24" VSL, 4 string instrument tuned Ionian at DAA.  I play noter drone on each, lighter, smaller noter on the Apple Creek, heavier on the other.

Despite playing the same way on each instrument, same pick, same type of rhythm, they sound like two entirely different instruments.  Roughly like playing my guitar and my ukulele.  Nothing wrong with this at all, I don't think, just an unexpected observation.  Is this common?  Thanks.

I did make a note out of one of them, Skip. Hollowed it out, too.

I heard bamboo tomato stakes from a garden center are Tonkin cane. It's used for top quality split cane flyrods and those giant scaffolds you see in China. 

Black bamboo may be a favorite as a noter, but as a garden plant, it's nothing but headaches !  I'll check the garage to see if I still have some stalks that I had cut down as possible noters.  If so, I'll post here again and let you all know.

Dusty -- Black Bamboo - Phyllostachys nigra is my all time favorite.

Roy --  never use fresh 'green'  culms from the current year,  always harvest culms which are at least a year old.  That way they don't need to dry, just cut and use.

We used to have a big grove of black bamboo on our property.  That variety develops a hard black sheen on the outside that is great for use as a noter and can be used as soon as you cut it to size.  It also has a groove on one side that is perfect for resting your finger.

Ken, I considered asking for culms from neighbors when I made Native American style flutes, but I'd assume fresh bamboo would take a year to dry, before it's usable?

If you like bamboo, just ask someone like me, who has tons of various kinds of bamboo growing all around, to send you some lengths of culm.

@ocean-daughter  --  Bamburgh and Lindisfaran are fabulous.  Visited there the last time we went over.  My Scottish clan has links to that area when it was 'debatable land' between between Alba and Ængland about the time of The Conquest.

One week from today, friends.  :)  

RoyB,

I'm glad the turkey call striker dowels are working out for you.   I left some at 5 1/2 inches long and cut some others down to 3 or 4 inches in length.

Another unique source of noters intended for other purposes is to buy river cane arrow shafts on E-Bay.  They come in lengths suitable for making arrows, but can be cut to shorter lengths as needed.

A final possibility is to  use Spanish cane cut to length.  Spanish cane is the material used to make drone reeds for various types of bagpipes.  It can be purchased in varying diameters to suit the player's needs and cut to length.

[quote="Banjimer"]

Search on E-Bay for "turkey call striker dowels".  They are available in a variety of hardwoods, can be purchased pre-rounded, and cost about $10.00 for ten dowels - each dowel is about 5-6 inches long.

Well, Banjimer, I have to tell you - I went ahead and ordered three purple heart turkey call striker dowels on Ebay.  They arrived today, and I'm very pleased with the size, shape and feel.  Very hard wood, right diameter for me (5/16"), and a bit over 5" long.  I also found demonstrations of their real use on YouTube.  Amazing.  Thanks again for the suggestion.

I'm more of a folkie.  Never really into heavy metal :)

Yes, I think I'll stick with wooden noters, at this point.  It would be interesting to see a bolt noter in action, though.

If you take a heavy [metal] noter [I used a 5/16  x 3 1/2 " bolt] and with a light touch, you can slide the bolt/noter on the string, without the string touching the frets, and change the pitch. You need the mass of the bolt/noter to kill the strings vibration at the point of contact. I also tried a piece of 1/2" steel rod which worked the same as the bolt. I had to use a real light touch because the MD is set up for chord/melody with low set strings.

The frets then act as lines locating the the notes. For the big spaces the note is just past [bridge side] the 1/2 way point between the 2 frets.

But, since you say you had problems with dobro slides, this may not work for you.

I pretty much mastered that on guitar, but the noter is completely different, of course.

Only enough pressure to make the string touch the fret. Sometimes with higher frets, if you press the string all the way down to touch the wood, then you are further stretching the string and making it sound sharp.

That is something I've been working on, Strumelia. Trying to see how much pressure is really needed to get a clear sound.

I think skip means you don't have to push the string all the way down to the wooden fretboard when pressing down the string between the frets. Also try to keep the noter not slanted- it gives a clearer sound. (unless you are purposely using the slanted noter technique for other reasons)

Ok. I think you mean I don't push the string down onto the actual fret, but just to the left of it? That I know from playing guitar.

The noter acts as a movable fret like a slide on a steel guitar or dobro. So you can actually get the notes in the large spaces as long as you stay away from the frets. One of the advantages of having a high nut/bridge. The frets act like a 'note marker' then. The string isn't stretched as much either.

Skip, you lost me with that one.

I don't think the string needs to touch a fret when using a noter. If that's true, it's the answer to the tuning problem [with a bit of practice].

[quote="Ken Longfield"]

My current favorite noter is the handle of a foam brush. I cut the foam off the handle after the paint hardened. It works very well for me.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ken, I've been doing some painting around the house, and had the same thought.  Just a little too wide in diameter for me, though (maybe the handles are different diameters?  I'll have to check that out).  They do seem to be a very soft wood, however.

My current favorite noter is the handle of a foam brush. I cut the foam off the handle after the paint hardened. It works very well for me.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

[quote="Skip"]

Last nite I happened to think that anything you can cut to size and hold onto would work, screwdriver, chunk of a broom/mop/garden tool, tablespoon, big nail in a piece of wood or file handle, etc. I suppose some would work better than others.

Skip, I've seen that idea other places, too.  However, I'm hesitant to use something too hard or abrasive on my 'vintage' instrument, for fear of damaging the fretboard or the staple frets.  So I'm needing a balance between a noter that won't hurt the fretboard yet won't sustain cuts from the pressure of the strings.  The search goes on.  I am thinking seriously about Banjimer's turkey call strikers.  Being a city guy I never knew they existed! (Don't ask me how else I thought turkeys were caught) Ebay does have them in several hard woods, for reasonable prices, and 5/16" diameter may be a good size for me. 

Last nite I happened to think that anything you can cut to size and hold onto would work, screwdriver, chunk of a broom/mop/garden tool, tablespoon, big nail in a piece of wood or file handle, etc. I suppose some would work better than others.

[quote="Ken Longfield"]

Roy, I don't know if you ever go over to Downingtown, but if you do there is a Woodcraft store there. It carries maple dowels. If I ever get down your way again, I have lots of different sizes and species of dowel material I can bring along for you to try.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thanks, Ken.  I do see their website online - there's a store in Downingtown and one in New Castle, DE, both about the same distance from me.  I'll keep that in mind as a source of wood.  

Also, I do hope to see you again sometime, maybe for a longer visit and song swapping.

[quote="Banjimer"]

Search on E-Bay for "turkey call striker dowels".  They are available in a variety of hardwoods, can be purchased pre-rounded, and cost about $10.00 for ten dowels - each dowel is about 5-6 inches long.

Banjimer, I thought you were kidding, but you are absolutely right!  Not much "call" (couldn't help myself) for those around my way, outside Philly!  They are a bargain for our purposes.  I may give them a try.  Thanks.

Roy, I don't know if you ever go over to Downingtown, but if you do there is a Woodcraft store there. It carries maple dowels. If I ever get down your way again, I have lots of different sizes and species of dowel material I can bring along for you to try.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Search on E-Bay for "turkey call striker dowels".  They are available in a variety of hardwoods, can be purchased pre-rounded, and cost about $10.00 for ten dowels - each dowel is about 5-6 inches long.

Ken's right; don't bind yourself to round.  One of my favorite noters is a rectangular one from Keith Young. Oh yeah, Jim Good's kind of looked like a spoon.

PM me your address...

That's very kind of you, Ken.

Neither Home Depot nor Lowes near me have dowels of maple. I'm actually ok with what I have, for now. Enjoy your trip!

Noters don't have to be round.   Or perfectly circular.  Surely one of the Big Box stores near you has Maple.  Or a local sawmill/lumber yard.  I'm getting ready for a trip to the UK in a few days, or I'd send you some maple and other hardwood bits.  

Rob, I actually tried a chopstick.  Too small for my liking.  Sorry about your river cane noter and lanyard.  Sounded like it was just the thing!

Skip, I could never get used to a slide while playing guitar, no matter which finger or what size I used.  Don't think it would work for me for a noter.

I did soak my oak dowel noters in Howard Butcher Block Conditioner.  Contains mineral oil, carnauba wax and beeswax (Robin's prior comment about beeswax made me think of it).  They seem to slide a bit smoother now.  I know oak isn't as hard or long lasting as a noter as other woods, but I now have 15 noters of 3/8" or 1/4" size, homemade, aside from my original 2, so I should be good for awhile.

And Ken, the pen blanks would be an excellent source of raw materials for me if I had a belt sander or any kind of carving skills!  As it is, I'm barely able to cut the dowels straight.

Thanks to all, as usual, for the helpful suggestions!