Forum Activity for @bridge

@cheryl-johnson Those are two really lovely instruments!

I'm looking for a Jean Ritchie BL dulcimer to purchase. Maybe someone on this thread knows of one for sale?  (needs to be a non-smoker, please. I bought a dulcimer years ago from a smoker and the fingerboard was horrendous - could never get the odor out of it :-(

Thank you!

Essentially through dumb luck and what came up for sale on the local CL, I ended up with a pristine McSpadden M12W that had been in a case in a closet for 27 years. The intonation is dead on up the frets and from string to string. I don't really know why because there's no sign of any extra compensation tweaks. It's textbook. I returned a dulcimer made by someone you would all know that just was not right. I had bought it used from Guitar Center with the 45-day return option, so it wasn't a case where the original luthier could set things right, perhaps with a different instrument. It's a current model that sells for about $300 with soft case, and it just was not right. Why the McSpadden is so spot on, I just don't know, but I had read that their build quality is extremely consistent from instrument to instrument. I'm on a budget, and I feel very fortunate that this M12W fell into my lap at a good price. It's a pleasure to play.

Somebody leads.  Different people can lead different songs if you like, but figure it out before the gig.  There's nothing worse than a bunch of musicians looking at each other like deer in the headlights, waiting for somebody, anybody to count them in.  Do not ask me how I know this!  I got so fed up with one group that I made buttons saying:

I'M THE ONE WHO CAN COUNT TO 4

and handed one out before every gig.  The leader must be fearless, ready to jump in and count the beats and name the chords like Dusty says.  "Back to the A part, three, four, here we go..."  Leading a group is a skill that takes practice, like any other skill.  Following a leader is also a skill to practice.  This could be a goal for club meetings.

One option is to get a bass player... or a drummer (one drummer)... to keep the tempo.  You need an instrument with a sound that stands out from the rest of the group so everyone can hear it.  A banjo (or a dulci-banjo) might do the trick.  If all else fails, sit someone down in the middle of the group with a 5-gallon plastic bucket and pound the beat.  Then the problem is to find the right bass/drum/banjo player.  I've been stuck with bassists who can't keep a steady rhythm and bassists who play the wrong rhythm (this is a waltz, you idiot).  If the bass has the wrong tempo there's nothing anyone else can do to save the tune because in a group with 3 dulcimers and one bass, the bass wins. 

Once you get more than 6 MD players, as Bill describes, I think you've reached the point where somebody has to conduct.  If one side is getting ahead of the other, that means they can't all hear each other.  Which means they need a visual indication -- tapping foot, waving hand.  I think pulling out a conductor's baton would be a funny bit of shtick for the audience. 

I have played gigs where we had to watch each others' strumming hands because nobody could hear the beat.  That doesn't work so well for beginners who still need to look at their fretboards, and it's hard to manage if people are using tab.  At least be sure you're sitting close together and in a semi-circle so you can all see each other.

Just an added note regarding short VSL instruments. In general, intonation is harder to get spot on as you shorten the string length because anything that's "off" about the instrument (perhaps the accuracy of fret positions) represents a large percentage of the whole and gets magnified. For example, it's much easier to have perfect intonation on a baritone ukulele than it is on a soprano uke. You can definitely get intonation spot on if you are willing to do what needs to be done. On some saddles (at the bridge) you will see them shaped so that each string has a slightly different VSL. On electric guitars, there are small sliding string carriers that can be minutely adjusted. Often, you can just angle the bridge/saddle. On my McSpadden M12-W, the bridge is basically perpendicular to the strings. On the McSpadden 26" VSL, the bridge is at a distinct angle on the 4FH26WR pictured at their website. See pic below.

 dul.png - 320KB

I'm new to dulcimers, but I have quite a bit of experience with short-scale guitars and alternate tunings. On guitars, when you go to a shorter scale, you end up increasing the string gauge to maintain proper intonation. When you go down in VSL, less string tension is required to maintain the same pitch. At some point, the string becomes floppy, sounds bad, and doesn't intonate well. If you keep the same VSL and go up in pitch, your string tension obviously goes up. If you want to go up in pitch and maintain the same string tension, you need to go to a lower string gauge. Just some examples.

Go to this string tension calculator provided by D'Addario and experiment. You can select a standard setup and then vary one or more factors and see the calculated results.

D'Addario      http://stringtensionpro.com

 tens.png - 119KB

Changing strings is fine, Dusty, but having them snap is very, very dangerous. I have managed to convince my wife that this is so and she loves me so much that she would rather I bought another dulcimer than risk getting hurt. 

This works for me and I am sticking with it.

I actually like all the suggestions here.  I've found in jams that it's important to have a clear leader for each tune.  That person counts out the first measure and determines the tempo.  Everyone else should follow that person.  It also helps if that person or a surrogate taps their feet loudly and plays the role of conductor.  

If there is a real disconnect, it may be that someone has to take a more active approach. In my monthly dulcimer group, I will sometimes start counting beats out loud and giving cues to where we are: "2-3-4- third line" or "3-4 A chord" or  whatever to get people in sync.

And sometimes a private conversation may be necessary.  I have a tendency to speed up as I play. One person in my local group always plays too fast.  But one day I spoke with her privately, explaining that we both had the same bad tendency and asking for her help in slowing down and following the tempo of the rest of the group.  That conversation made her a better player with out my having to insult her in any way.

But as a general rule, every orchestra needs a conductor. Whether that's the rhythm guitar as Randy suggests, someone taping their foot, or another leader of some sort.

@jp, I regularly use a .014 on my melody string and almost always tune to d. I've never had a string break on my dulcimer when I was tuning it.  But perhaps on longer VSLs .012 or even lighter would work better.  I say go for it and see what happens, perhaps putting on some goggles just in case.   Jeepers, creepers, you gotta protect your peepers!

@nigelbleddfa, it is surely the case that the more you change a string's tuning the more likely the string is to snap, but so what?  It's a good idea to change strings every 3-6 months anyway, so I don't see what the big deal is.  A string costs a buck.  A dulcimer costs a lot more than that.  There are better reasons to justify a new dulcimer.

Maybe I'm spoiled.  My thoughtful wife  got me a $100 gift card to Just Strings for my last birthday. I was able to buy several years worth of strings with that.

My first dulcimer was tuned DAD. I told my wife that it was dangerous to keep changing the tuning to DAA and over a period of time strings would snap and replacements would be needed. She accepted this and I bought a second dulcimer which is permanently tuned DAA. 

Do you think she will accept the "strings snapping" argument as a good reason for buying a third ? I quite fancy a nice solid walnut one.

ok the good news is yes you can tune it up. it is tight but it is there.... changing strings is not an issue for me ... i wanted to be able to go back and forth DAD and DDD...on the same machine... with out surprises.

thanks to ken for the counsel.....he got closest to a yes or no answer.

I like Randy's suggestion- so the main rhythm leaders can better keep all together!

Someone whom all can see, blatantly tapping a foot to follow!

 I belong to 3 central Indiana dulcimer groups and we often play together at local events. 

The problem arises when we have more than  6 or 8 players. Some players are advanced others relative beginners.

Usually we have at least 1 or 2 guitar players but still have problems with group sync in the larger group. Do you pick some one to lead and everyone follow them? One side of the group will end  up a note or two behind or ahead of the other side . We don't use electronics so it is difficult, especially outside to keep everyone together. Other that very frequent practice, does anyone have suggestions?  We play together weekly with portions of each group involved 

Bill Robison

There's another Too Young To Marry  a.k.a. My Love Is But A Lassie Yet, which predates Robert Burns, but for which he wrote lyrics under that title...

ABC:

|:d/c/ | dD FA | dD Dd/c/ | dD FA | eE Ed/c/ |
dD FA | Bg fe | d/c/B/A/ Bc | dD D : |
|: f/g/ | a>f g>e | fd df/g/ | af g/f/g/a/ | be ef/g/ |
af ge | fd fe | d/c/B/A/ B/c/d/e/ | fd d : |

It's "other" name is "Sweet Sixteen" and like Lisa, I can't recall hearing any words to it.  Yep, Lisa, that's the basic tune.

If it's this tune:

http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=nlfiddlers.org/ABCtunes/Reels/0011

then it's a very old fiddle tune (Scottish maybe?).  A tune , not a song .  Not sure if anyone's written words to it in more modern times, but I've only ever heard it played as a fiddle tune in oldtime festivals.

Perfectly willing to try the PykMax EXCEPT I play left handed and they don’t seem to make one yet.  I guess we are too small a market. The trials and tribulations of us southpaws.

I am finding that 10ga, 12ga, and 20ga are working best on the dulcimers I build, but occasionally a 22ga is better. But as most know, a lot of it is simply personal preference. 

I'm with Skip on this one.  Strings are inexpensive and easily replaced.  Replace the .014 gauge with a .012 gauge.   

Have you tried the PykMax? I would think this would be perfect for you! It allows you to loosen your grip completely without dropping the pick. 

Within a minute of playing with mine the first time I ordered 3 more. It's a super comfortable picking system.

jp,

You will be increase the tension from ~ 20 lbs [calculated] to ~27 lb according to d'addario string tension chart pdf. Their chart shows the .014 going up to ~38 lbs for an 'f' on a 26 1/4 banjo vsl. You could also replace the A with one of the melody strings or install a new, additional, .012 string.

Maybe it's just me yet I would not try to take a .014 string up to D from an A. 

Aye, well, I didn't understand that from your first post, it's true.  As Skip says, tune the Middle Drone A string UP to the same d as your melody string(s).  A 14 ga string on 26"-27" VSL should be able to tune to d, because you can play that same d on the 10th fret.  Then your tuning will be Bagpipe D -- that is Ddd

Tune the 'A' to the same as the melody, dd [middle 'A' to 'd']. You're tuning then will be spelled as Ddd [or Dddd], bass to melody, in MD speak. If you loosen the 'A' to 'D' it will be pretty 'floppy'. The .014 will feel tighter than the 2 melody strings though if those are smaller.

well maybe i was not clear.

my dulcimer is tuned to ddAD

i want it in bag pipe all D's across the board

the middle string presently is at A.... a .14 gage will it go up to D with out breaking

OR should i tune it down to D.

You may be looking at the tuning "backwards".  Dulcimer tunings these days are specified from the Bass to the Melody string and we only ever mention the doubled melody string(s) if they are actually tuned differently.  

The Bass string is D, your A string is the Middle drone, and the d string(s) are the Melody string(s) an octave higher than the Bass. 

On a 26-27" VSL, a 14 ga should be easily tuned to the 5th above the Bass string -- A.  Fret the Bass string at the 4th fret, and sound the note -- that's what you tune the Middle Drone string to -- A.  Your Melody strings should be a bit lighter gauge -- 12s.  Tune them to d an octave above the Bass string D.

BTW -- Bagpipe Tuning is defined as a Bass string tuned D (for example) and all the other strings tuned an octave above -- Ddd for example, not DAd.  DAd is the Mixolydian Modal tuning.

i mentioned i built some Cigar box guitars... here are a couple.....the black (Punch) one i built for

my grandson.... funny thing is when he received it he had punched a wall screwed up his

picking hand.....

the red one (American) i built for my son.... they are all slide guitars tuned GDG

 another view.jpeg - 100KB

VSL = 26 3/4"

ddAD

the "A" string (.14) can i tune it up to D or should i tune it to D below A?

When i get the "A" string up to C i must admit i get a butt pucker feeling and

chicken out.

I have arthritis in my picking thumb it is hard to hold a plain, thin pick comfortably for very long.  Have tried a bunch of picks but the one I now use is the best for me that I have found.  It is called a Mojo Grip from PickWorld.  Delrin  picks in various thicknesses in a rubber sleeve that covers the top 60% of the pick.  

The rubber keeps the pick from being slippery.  It also provides a thicker pick which I find easier to hold.  It adds some cushioning which seems to help.

I believe you can order just the grip part separately to slid over your favorite pick.

It works for me but they say "your mileage may vary."

I use a variety of picks, but my "go to" pick is a Herdim three point pick. After that I use a V-pick but not the Bing ultra-lite. I use a different shape and it come is red as well as clear. Over the years I've used picks cut from plastic milk containers, margarine containers, Cool Whip tops, and credit cards. I've also used thin strips of wood and leather as well as turkey and goose feathers. I choose the pick according to the type and style of music I am playing. There really is no right or wrong pick. It is just what works best for you.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I planned to try the picks with the cork circle.I really haven't had much of a problem with a pick flying off. This is just setting the pick down on my desk or table. It blends right in! The first picks I got were camo colored and I can find those anywhere. I can be looking right at the clear acrylic one and not see it. Never considered that particular problem but I think I may have to stick with picks that have a little color to them.

I really like the Dava 6924 Grip Tip pick.  Very easy to hold on to and variable stiffness; works great for me. 

One of the ways to keep a pick from flying off and getting lost is to tether it to a ring of leather or other soft material that you slip on one of your fingers. Even a slice of a finger off an old glove would work.  Some people crochet them or make a ring of beads strung on elastic cord.  If it goes flying it won't get too far!

There is one problem with the V-Pick that I didn't think about. it is a bad idea to have a clear pick! I lose it all the time, in fact, I can't find it right now. It just blends right in with whatever it's on. I am going to be picking up more picks soon. 

Hi JP,  Dusty Turtle has answered your questions.  (thanks Dusty!)

A couple additional details I'll add-  

I just created a new discussion outlining the simple steps to add an Audio file (your own Mp3 file, or soundcloud) to this site, see here:

https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/site-questions-how-do-i/32804/how-to-add-an-audio-mp3-or-soundcloud-clip-to-fotmd

A good way to learn your way around here is to click on the links along the top of the navigation bar on every page.  It shows the main areas.  They pertain to what 'everyone' posts.  Another good way is to click on the links you find on your own profile page... they pertain more to content that YOU post.

Do look through the Site Questions forum Dusty linked to.  It contains other threads that have been asked and answered, like: How do I post a Video?

And do look through the Site Rules Dusty linked to as well.  There it explains more answers to your questions, like: What kind of videos are allowed?  Reading the site rules will help you avoid posting something that moderators will remove. 

Lastly, because this thread is all about how to use this site, I'm now going to move it into the Site Questions Forum, so that others will benefit from it as well.   Thanks!