Forum Activity for @sean-belt

Thanks, Ken. I'll give it a look.

Hi Peter,

I know this thread was from a few years ago... it seems I can't figure out how to get to your tabs.  Is there a way I can help you to update your posts here to enable links to your generous folksong tabs?

 jan,

Thanks, sitting out front reminds me of front porches when I was growing up - neighbors slowing down or stopping to say hi. Out back is like playing to 'heaven' just me, my pup & nature most of the time.

You were very welcome to come when you were in town with your brother & I am sorry I missed meeting up with you when I visited Louisville a year ago. One day we will meet, until then happy strumming.

Sean, I have never used one except to contribute. A friend of mine is using Go-Fund-Me to raise money for his CD. Here is a link to his campaign:  https://www.gofundme.com/normwilliams

He seems to be doing well with it. I am not sharing this to ask for contributions, only to help you to see how someone else is doing what you want to do.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Anne, since your questions don't have much to do with Sean's thread here, I'd like to ask you to  please ask your questions as a new discussion in our General Dulcimer-related Forum , here:

https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/general-mountain-dulcimer-or-music-discussions

To start your discussion there, just click on the big "+" button on the upper right and give your new discussion a title etc.

The band I play in, The Mound City Slickers, are kicking around tunes to record for a new CD that we'd hope to release next Spring. One of the ideas we've talked about is crowd sourcing the funding for the CD. Of course, being the musical promotion "geniuses" we are (completely not), we have no experience with this. Does anyone on these boards have experience and an inclination to give us some pointers? Best sites to use? Do you absolutely need a video? Etc.

Luann,

Of course I remember you now that you sparked my synapses. That was a fun weekend. Pretty much any time spent with Don is a fun time.

Truth is, I have a love for old traditional jazz and novelty songs, but I am not all that knowledgeable. Fortunately almost everything I want to know is just a Google search away.

Cheers,

Sean

Actually, a "dirty little secret" of lap dulcimer playing is that Old Joe Clark is "really" in the key of A in all bluegrass and old-time (non-dulcimer) circles. 

But it works so well for us in D! So we do it that way because we can.

Yes, one can play it in A, tuned DAD, with capo at the 4th fret, and then play 8 9 10 9 8 7 6.5... (flatted 7th, on 'Clark,' underlined). But notice that you need the 6.5.  Without that extra fret, capoing at 4 and playing 4 (open), 5, 6... 11 produces the A dorian minor scale.

The diatonic aspect of the dulcimer at once makes it both SIMPLER to play but HARDER to understand when and if keys or tunings change! 

Yes, Rob, Red-Haired Boy and Salt Creek are usually played in A in bluegrass circles, and in A, the note in question would be a G.  You are correct.  If you play in D, it is a C, though.  If you tune AEa, you will get that note on the 1-1/2 fret of the middle string, just as you get the C note there when you play it in D.  The dulcimer players I've seen who play Red-Haired Boy in A capo at the fourth fret, in which case they get the note on the middle string with the 6-1/2 fret. (If you play Salt Creek in A tuned DAA or DAd, there is another note at the end of the first line that you can't get, but you might be able to get Red-Haired Boy in A out of a D tuning.  I think Gary Gallier has some tab for that in what he calls his "cross-key" method.)  

But the point is that it the melody requires a note you can't find easily on a diatonic fretboard.  Can you play either of those tunes with no extra frets?  I'd be interested to hear it.  As I said, Red-Haired Boy might be possible but not Salt Creek.

I've never heard that Salt Creek is copyrighted and can point to plenty of resources that refer to Salt Creek as traditional.  It was known as Salt River until Bill Monroe recorded it as Salt Creek, but it's the same tune.  According to the Library of Congress , Monroe was taught the tune by his banjo player Bill Keith, who had learned it from a West Virginia banjo player named Don Stover.

A "C" in the "traditional fiddle tune" "Red Haired Boy?" I never play a "C" when we play it. There is a "G" in the "traditional" way of playing "Red Haired Boy" because it's in the key of A.  I believe the same holds true for "Salt Creek" which is probably traditional but (and I could be wrong here) was copyrighted by Bill Monroe.

Marg -- just as with a regular dulcimer body, the larger the total interior volume, the more bass/baritone response you get, as well as more volume

Would a larger cigar box make the tone or volume different from a smaller size box?

Don, a while back I wrote a short explanatory piece called " What are extra frets and do I need any? "  You might check it out.

The simple answer to why you would use an extra fret is to get the note produced there.  For example, there is no F natural on a diatonic dulcimer tuned DAA or DAd.  So if a song has that note, you have to skip it, bend a string, or use an extra fret.  If the song is modal you can retune to get an F natural, but not all music is modal, and as Lois says, "accidentals happen."  An "accidental" is simply a note that is not in the scale.  But not all songs are limited to the 7 notes of a diatonic scale.  I am learning a French Canadian tune right now called "La Galope de la Balbaie" that necessitates the use of the 1-1/2 and 6-1/2 frets on the middle (A) string. 

The original reason, supposedly, for the 6-1/2 fret was to be able to play songs in the ionian mode out of a mixolydian tuning. Those are the two most common modes, so the extra fret obviated the need to retune.  And the 1-1/2 fret offers other possibilities.  As Jan suggests, it makes playing a C chord easy to do down by the nut since the 1-1/2 fret on the middle string gives you a C natural (also found on fret 6 of a D string). When I play the B part of Old Joe Clark I play a C chord, which all guitarists and mandolin players do as well, whereas dulcimer players are unable to do that and play a much less dramatic A chord.  That C chord also shows up in other traditional fiddle tunes such as Red-Haired Boy and Salt Creek. And as Jan explains, having an easy C chord near the nut allows you to play chords in the key of G very easily.

I also use the 1-1/2 fret to play the blues.  The most important "blue note" is the lowered third, which is an F natural in the key of D.  But importantly, that note gains its power from the fact that it is played over the major chord, so you still need an F# to play the blues. In other words, re-tuning won't help. But the 1-1/2 fret gives you the lowered third (F) on the melody string and the lowered 7th (C) on the middle string.  And since most pop, blues, and jazz melodies us the minor pentatonic scale, that comes easily with a 1-1/2 fret.  Starting on the bass string play 0, 1-1/2, 3 then on the middle 0, 1-1/2, 3, and you have your minor pentatonic scale to play over the major chords of a pop, blues, or jazz song.

My sense is that if you have to ask why anyone would want extra frets, you probably don't need them.  The 6-1/2 is pretty standard these days, so if you play with a dulcimer group, it will likely be expected that you have one.  Unless you specifically want to play non-diatonic music for which the dulcimer was never intended, you do not need a 1-1/2 fret.  Having said that, I love mine and won't give it up!

Don, I use my 1 1/2 fret (also written as 1+ or 1.5 ) so I can play in the key of G without retuning or putting a capo on.  The 3 main chords in the key of G are G (0 1 3), C ( 3  1.5  1), and D ( 0 0 2). Being able to play the chords without moving your hand up and down the fretboard is very helpful--for those who play with a lot of chords. (note that the 8.5 is one octave up from the 1.5 and the 13.5 is one octave up from a 6.5)

If you are playing melody/drone, the fact that the 1.5 gives you a C on the middle string might not matter at all to you.

I'll let those who play noter/drone or melody/drone chime in here.

Marg, your place is so lovely, and looks like a great place to sit and trade tunes!  It was so gracious of you to invite me over to stay at your home 3 years ago when I was at MD Anderson with my brother, and I was sorry it didn't work out.   I hope your neighbors enjoy your music!

Oh Dusty Turtle, thank you for saying that!  My husky/malamute obviously dislikes my dulcimer playing.  I'm not sure if it's because he can't get my attention then or if it hurts his ears.  To make matters even worse, he seems to really enjoy my husband's banjo playing! 

To clarify, all MD's have the ionian scale, it starts on the 3rd fret. The scale name [key] is defined by the note on that fret. DAA is used to play songs in the key of D [D is on the 3rd fret]. MD's having a 6+ fret have 2 ionian scales, one starts on the open using the 6+ and one starts on the 3rd fret using the 6. So, in DAd, you have the notes for the key of G [starting on fret 3] and D [starting open] on the melody string.

"the vast majority of those Mixolydian tune book songs are not Mixolydian modal songs.  They are Ionian Mode songs being played in Mixolydian DAd using the 6+ fret."

This is correct - or you could play across the strings and use the 2nd fret of the middle string.

This shows the confusion created by calling tunings by mode/scale names. Think of the modes as scales and scale variations. Ionian mode is a fancy name for the major scale, the old do re mi...  Myxolydian is a fancy name for the major scale with the 7th note flatted. (Aeolian and Dorian are fancy names for two kinds of minor scales.)

On most modern dulcimers (w a 6.5 fret):

When tuned DAD you play an ionian/major scale from 0 (open) to the 7th fret using the 6.5 fret and skipping the 6th fret.

When tuned DAD you play a myxolydian/flat-7 scale from 0 to 7th fret using the 6th fret and skipping the 6.5 fret.

DAD tuning was called "myxolydian" because on the original dulcimers - with NO 6.5 fret - it is the only scale you could get going from open to the 7th. Also, that's how you MUST tune the dulcimer to play a song like Old Joe Clark that uses a flat 7th (on 'Clark': 4 - 5 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2...)

To play an ionian/major scale on a trad dulcimer - with no extra frets - you MUST tune to DAA, and the scale starts with the D that's now at the 3rd fret, and you play 3 - 10 on the frets. If you tune DAA on a modern dulcimer, you still play 3 - 10 for the major scale, but you have to make sure to skip the 6.5. 

That's why DAA tuning became called "Ionian" - b/c that's the way you have to tune to get a major/ionian scale on a traditionally fretted dulcimer. 

With the 6.5 fret (or playing across the strings) you can find the pure major scale songs even if you're in DAD tuning.

Bottom line: It's NOT really the tuning that is "myxolydian" - it's that that tuning allows you to play the myxolydian scale, in particular on a dulcimer with no extra frets. Same with all the other Greek names.

I tend to stay in DAD because I can play either mode with no retuning. However, you can't play a D-myxolydian scale on a dulcimer tuned DAA - unless you use the bass string. 

I think of the DAD tuning as 'containing' the DAA within it - on that middle, A, string - but not vice versa. 

Hope that makes sense. It can be a little confusing!

Thx, what a fun history lesson. U are quite knowledgeable re: jazz & ragtime-I love 1940's swing stuff-Andrews sisters, gene krupa, benny goodman, but also earlier Stephane Grapelli & Django Reinhardt-if i could just translate it to dulcimer.    U can call me jonesie (or RayJay for that matter) if you wanna:), but my name is Luann.

BTW, it just occurred to me that we know each other.  We met at one of Don Pedi's retreats at Wildacres, what, a year or so ago-or 2?-that was a fun one-Randall McKinnon was there too, remember?

DulcimerJones (or can I just call you "Jonesie"?),

It holds a lot of memories for me, too. My mom used to sing it to me when I was but a little shaver. I forgot about it completely until recently when I started playing it again with a ragtime pianist of my acquaintance. He plays the original 3-part tune "Iola" from 1904.

Then in 1940, a fella named Saxie Dowell stole the middle part for his song, "Playmates". Johnson sued over the plagarism and won. However, at the time "Playmates" became popular. Kay Kyser had a hit with it with Sully Mason and His Playmates on vocals, as did a few other people.

In 1955, Which is probably the version that you and I are familiar with, the record was a hit for The Fontane Sisters.

Even more recently, it was used in The Addams Family movie with vocals by The Kipper Kids.

And there you have more than you ever needed to know about "Iola: A Ragtime Intermezzo".

Don, you are using tunings on your short scale dulcimers which mean you will be playing in the key of G (not D, so don't get confused by anyone talking about D).  It's simple: both the guitar and the uke should be able to play in the key of G along with you without anyone having to use capos.

For simple common folk tunes there are usually only three essential chords the guitar and uke will need to know when playing along with you in the key of G:  G, C, and D chords.  They should already know how to play those very basic standard chords.  They won't need to use a capo or learn new chords or fingerings to play in G.... they just have to know when the chords change in the tune.  Most players can sense that and will catch on when doing simple chord accompaniment.  You will most likely be playing the simple melody and they most likely will be playing accompaniment chords... at least as you get started playing together.

The guitar can play in any key, especially if he has a capo.

Ukulele players seldom use capos and (almost) never above the 2nd fret. 
If she's strumming chords, in the key of D, simple D-2220 or 2225, A-2100 or A7-0100 or 2130, and G-0232 will accommodate most dulcimer folk songs.

Somewhere in my Getting Reacquainted prowling yesterday I found the comment (by Dusty Turtle?) that could be the maxim for this site and all our musical questions: The dulcimer takes 5 minutes to learn and a lifetime to master.

As for "Mixolydian tune book songs are not Mixolydian modal songs.  They are Ionian Mode songs being played in Mixolydian DAd using the 6+ fret" , that's because I guess we could take another saying and turn it into a call for da da da dum: Music Theory!  Accidentals happen.

Just did a print out of the chart, to keep with my music.  Think I'll do a download on my tablet, too.

Since they have 'chromatic' instruments [all notes/keys available], they play with you or play in the 'keys' [note ranges] you have available. Otherwise you could be retuning for some tunes or adlibbing some notes.

Don;

Tunings are a physical thing, they are nothing more than the 'open' notes of the strings. The different tunings are used to facilitate physical access to various ranges/arrangements of notes. Most all the rest is music theory, which you can find on the net, in libraries or via classes and will pickup over time.  

Don, I have the sense that you don't want to delve too far into music theory (i don't blame you!)- that you really only want to know enough to not be confused when playing simple tunes at home.  Because you have instruments with shorter-than-usual lengths of scale, you can't get around the fact that your tunings will need to be higher than the usual D-based dulcimer tunings...in this case you go up the alphabet from D tuning to a higher G tuning.  But because you play alone, you can use your G tunings that are almost just like the usual D tunings and you'll be able to 'pretend' you are in D and use the tabs written for the D tuning equivilent of your G tuning.  (i hope you're not lost here)

There is no definition page here on FOTMD, but there are plenty of those on other sites if you google.  I have written a guide to the four most common dulcimer modes and tunings -written for beginners and in plain language with videos, charts, and simple explanations.  My posts on modes/tunings are intended for people who just want a simple basic understanding  so they can play and tune more easily.  Most of what I've written on my Noter Blog is geared towards the key of D tunings, but you can just 'translate' that for your G tunings by substituting G for D (use GDd when you see DAA).  Or in the case of your new dulcimer,  GDGg ...which you should know is also similar to an ionian DAA.

I understand you don't want to get far into theory, but since you ask for definitions, I'm going to give you a link to my blog post that tries to explain modes and tunings to beginners who only want to get a quick and practical understanding :

https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2010/09/few-of-my-posts-about-modes.html

Anytime someone asks for a 'definition' of modes and tunings, they should understand that reading one or two sentences in a 'definition' is never going to give instant understanding.  But if you go through and explore the post I've linked to above, it might take an hour or two but you will then have a basic grasp that will get you feeling a little less frustrated than you are now.  That feeling will be very reassuring as you go forward in your home enjoyment playing.  

I was going to say that!  

Ken's right Don-   Just think of your GDDd tuning as a higher version of DAA.  It needs to be higher because of the short scale/length of your Wren dulcimer.   BUT you can follow all TAB written for DAA on your GDDd dulcimer.  (you will be playing in the key of G)

As to your coming GDGg dulcimer-  when it comes you can either retune it to GDDd and see if it feels right, OR you can stay in GDGd and think of it as similar to DAdd (DAd) tuning... and then if you are playing noter style you can follow all TABS written for DAd.  (again, you will be playing in the key of G)

If strings feel too 'heavy' or tight when playing, you can buy strings one number smaller and often it will feel better for your fingers.  However, keep in mind that the shorter the instrument (and the Wren is quite short) the stiffer the strings will feel by default.  My epinettes tend to be stiffer feeling than my (longer) dulcimers.

Don't worry too much- you can find your fave one or two tunings and stick with them if you like!  Some folks like to experiment, others not so much.  

Lois -- remember that the vast majority of those Mixolydian tune book songs are not Mixolydian modal songs.  They are Ionian Mode songs being played in Mixolydian DAd using the 6+ fret.

Don -- Play what works for you, GDD, GDg, QRS, TUV, WXYZ....  Nothing wrong with the key of G, especially on those smaller instruments.  Just remember that your GDD dulcimer can play DAA tabulature, and your GDg dulcimer can play DAd tabulature, as written.  No need to change to the key of D.

Marg, that little dulcimer was made by FOTMD member  Peter W . You might contact him if you have any questions.  Notice that in addition to the swivel possum board, he has a small box situated directly under the fretboard.  The purposes of a box are to 1) amplify the sound, and 2) improve the tone.  To achieve the second, cardboard won't do, which is why I suggested cedar cigar boxes.

I have a really nice patio out back overlooking a small lake but sometimes it is very sunny in the afternoons so I put in a small paved sitting area at my entrance up front for a shady afternoon. Now I can play outside anytime, just sometimes in the back & sometimes in the front.

 entrance.jpg - 340KB

 What a great eclipse site-loved the animations, thx.