And here's the response from GHS strings to my questions about tension. I don't have time to read this now, but I hope someone finds it interesting!
http://www.ghsrep.weebly.com/
Greetings! I also sent an email to Bing Futch, whose Patreon group I recently joined, and he responded by posting a link to a string tension calculator that he's used before-- https://chordgen.parmakis.co.uk/tensiontool.php .
He also posted a 15 minute video (to Patreon) about how he uses it and did the example of a 29" dulcimer at DAD. I'm attaching a screen shot of those settings. You start by clicking "show editor" and then all he did was set the tuning to DAD, the octave of each note, the type of string (steel with phosphor bronze winding) and then entered the string sizes he thought he wanted and clicked "calculate tensions". It produced some graphs, and in that case it showed the middle string as having a somewhat lower tension than the other two, so he clicked "equalize" and it changed one string value to bring them more into alignment. He also mentioned that tension in the 20-30lb range were safe and a bit on the light side (for slide, that is) and anything in the 50-60 range was risky as far as breaking. You can also set it for more strings, either single or double, so it's very accommodating to all kinds of string instruments and several kinds of strings. He said he's found it to be useful, and at the least it'll give me a place to start! I encourage you to check out the tool and play with it! I haven't yet, but I wanted to get this up on the forum ASAP.
Thanks for posting this video, Strumelia. I've seen it before, but never saw the original show as I was in college at the time. Back in the old days we didn't have access to TV in the dorm.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
This song popped into my head this morning for some reason. Brian Jones really hit it out of the park with this- terrific playing, syncopation, and vibratto, -and great bass accompaniment. I remember going out of my mind over this as a teenager..
Thanks all you guys for the tips & ideas. I put in an email to juststrings and even sent a note to Norris Bennett. Fingers crossed!
Hi Ken, thanks for your response, that chart might be helpful. It occurred to me that there might be a chart of what gauge strings could be tuned to for different VSL lengths, but so far I haven't found any evidence of one. If I find one I'll report it.
I can't find the chart I had either in a computer file or a hard copy. It was something a string maker shared with me. Each manufacturer uses different cores for the various strings they make and none of them (at least that I've been able to find) publish the core sizes, but I'll keep looking. From what I've been able to find as suggestions 0.010 for the first string, 0.012 for the middle, and 0.018 for the bass. You can buy a plain steel bass string.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
For a 29" VSL you'd be pushing it to get the melody string above a 0.012. You can try a 0.014 or 0.013 but be prepared to it break. The same holds true for the middle string. The 0.024 wound string works because the core is thinner and the winding makes up the thickness. You could use wound strings for the melody and middle. Somewhere I have a chart of what the core of various wound strings are. I'll see if I can find it to make a better suggestion.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
That's what got me excited in the first place! I also just don't want to sell this dulcimer because it's really got a lovely sound, but I just can't handle the the wide frets, and my husband built me a 25" that is great for me. I've always love the sound of slide and I'd love to be able to use it in blues.
Bing Futch has a good 9-year old video - Dulcimerica 273 - "Sliding On The Resonator" - Mountain Dulcimer
His instrument is very much a "non-standard" one.
He suggests, among other things, that you may want increased string height and possibly no frets for slide playing.
Ken's suggestions about trying wound strings look good to me.
Thanks Ken, for the references and ideas. I will be playing through my 20A Fender most of the time. I will definitely check out Juststrings, I was wondering if anyone made wound versions of the higher strings, I do love the sound and feel of wound strings. Interesting idea about the plain bass too, never heard of that! The bridge & nut idea is interesting too. I figure a good chunk of my problem is that I just need to develop my wrist more, hence the question about bar vs. finger slides.
The onlty slide player I've ever seen was at Cullowee years ago when I was in the Traditional track. One of the teachers -- Norris Bennet -- was a member of the Ebony Hillbillies, the famous black NYC string band. Slide dulcimer certainly is an interesting sound. As Wally sez, you can try other gauges but there are scientific reasons why you can only go so thick or thin on string gauges for a particular VSL.
Something you might want to try is using wound versions of the mid and melody strings, to 'fatten them up' closer to the diameter of the bass. Juststrings.com sells Phosphor Bronze wound 12 and 14 gauge Acoustic Guitar strings for $4-$8 depending on brand (and string brand is irrelevant).
Conversely, you can try using a plain steel bass string (we traditional dulcimer players do this all the time to help us get that 'high silvery' tradtional sound.
Also, the bass string notches in the nut & bridge could be filed just a very tiny bit deeper to bring the top of the bass string down just the tiniest bit.
Hi Wally, thanks a lot. I think a .012 was the first increase I tried, and it went snap-TWANG! in short order. I went back to an 11. I'm still low on the learning curve so I'd rather stick to DAD for now. Your middle string comment is interesting, thanks for sharing that.
Good luck on your explorations. Please give us some reports since there is little information on slide playing available.
Most slide work seems to have been done with electric or resonator dulcimers, not traditional bodies. These give a much stronger sustain to the notes. Much of this is done with extended string sets, going beyond simple DAD tuning.
My playing is in DAA, and I have no plans to do DAD.
I would say that you will be pushing your luck if you try to make the melody string heavier than an .012 - there are good reasons why we don't find .014 melody strings in the "dulcimer" sets sold, although they might sound better for us DAA folks.
I like a low middle string, tuned below the bass D. I've used an .028 for that, if my memory is correct. That won't work well in DAD because you can't then move to the middle string to get the low A in a melody.
For a 29" VSL you'd be pushing it to get the melody string above a 0.012. You can try a 0.014 or 0.013 but be prepared to it break. The same holds true for the middle string. The 0.024 wound string works because the core is thinner and the winding makes up the thickness. You could use wound strings for the melody and middle. Somewhere I have a chart of what the core of various wound strings are. I'll see if I can find it to make a better suggestion.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
Bing Futch has a good 9-year old video - Dulcimerica 273 - "Sliding On The Resonator" - Mountain Dulcimer
His instrument is very much a "non-standard" one.
He suggests, among other things, that you may want increased string height and possibly no frets for slide playing.
Ken's suggestions about trying wound strings look good to me.
The onlty slide player I've ever seen was at Cullowee years ago when I was in the Traditional track. One of the teachers -- Norris Bennet -- was a member of the Ebony Hillbillies, the famous black NYC string band. Slide dulcimer certainly is an interesting sound. As Wally sez, you can try other gauges but there are scientific reasons why you can only go so thick or thin on string gauges for a particular VSL.
Something you might want to try is using wound versions of the mid and melody strings, to 'fatten them up' closer to the diameter of the bass. Juststrings.com sells Phosphor Bronze wound 12 and 14 gauge Acoustic Guitar strings for $4-$8 depending on brand (and string brand is irrelevant).
Conversely, you can try using a plain steel bass string (we traditional dulcimer players do this all the time to help us get that 'high silvery' tradtional sound.
Also, the bass string notches in the nut & bridge could be filed just a very tiny bit deeper to bring the top of the bass string down just the tiniest bit.
Good luck on your explorations. Please give us some reports since there is little information on slide playing available.
Most slide work seems to have been done with electric or resonator dulcimers, not traditional bodies. These give a much stronger sustain to the notes. Much of this is done with extended string sets, going beyond simple DAD tuning.
My playing is in DAA, and I have no plans to do DAD.
I would say that you will be pushing your luck if you try to make the melody string heavier than an .012 - there are good reasons why we don't find .014 melody strings in the "dulcimer" sets sold, although they might sound better for us DAA folks.
I like a low middle string, tuned below the bass D. I've used an .028 for that, if my memory is correct. That won't work well in DAD because you can't then move to the middle string to get the low A in a melody.
It would have been a nice find anyway, but that label just adds such heartfelt meaning. I'm sure the dulcimer expresses a father's love for his daughter with every strum.
Yes - I agree... it remains a charming piece of work and was clearly made with love.
I guess it's unlikely I will ever know more!
I'll certainly take care of this one and think of them when I play it, whatever their story was! :-)
The fact that it is number 5 and made for his daughter makes me think that he was an amateur builder so there probably won't be much information on him.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
Thanks for looking, Ken... The label doesn't give much of a clue to the location, but see the file attached. The shop I purchased it from is located in Oneonta, NY, but I have no idea if Larry was local to that location.
Greetings! I have a 29" Folkcraft that I want to learn to play slide on. Is there anyone here who does that? I'm just starting out (with the slide), and currently have .024, .014, and .012, and it's hard to keep the slide level and I'd like to beef up the middle and melody strings to get a heartier sound, but there appear to be limits to how big you can go and still get a normal DAD tuning. The .024 is fine but the other two feel floppy and don't sound that great. Any suggestions (besides buying lots of gauges to try!) would be greatly appreciated. I won't be using it for anything but slide, so it doesn't matter if it's hard to pick or bend. I just don't want it to snap when I try to tune it! If you do play slide, do you use a tube slide or a bar slide? Thanks!
Sorry Rob, I haven't been able to find any information on Larry Shore as a dulcimer maker. Is there any information on a label inside the dulcimer that would at least give a location where it was made? That could help locate him. Maybe someone else will have better luck.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
Hi Nate, It wasnt rocket science, I drew the parts out in inkscape and sent them to my laser cutter as SVGs. I paid for the butterfly motif STLs to make the sound holes. The parts for the strings, head, bridge etc. were printed on a 3d printer.
I recently purchased this 6-string dulcimer. The label says it was made by Larry Shore in 1982. It's a nice piece of work!
Has anyone here come across Larry or his work before? I would be fascinated to know anything more about him.
All the best
Rob
Wow that is seriously cool. How did you manage to get such intricate cuts into the plywood? That must have taken a lot of work to make.
Thanks for the interest and the advice Nate. The dulcimer is made from 3mm ply, hence the painting! I was only unsure about the soundboard as it was too big and clunky, the sound was fine and the sympathetic strings really make things ring out. I have laser cut a new sound board to fit flush as I have seen pictures of other dulcimers which do this. I will post a picture of it but havent fitted it or decorated it yet. I have a gurdy and a nyckelharpa that both benefit from having sympathetic strings so I thought I would try them on a dulcimer and I am peased with the result. Having it fully fretted make it easier to find those "difficult " notes and also to change key either using a capo or fingering the chords differently. I attach some pictures to show the details, if anyone wants to try I can send the drawings and STL files of the 3d printed parts, i.e. the head, bridge, nut and mount for the sympathetic strings machine head.
Sorry to hear that, i have noticed that sometimes having a "false bottom/galax board" or a built in "possum board" can dampen my sound. After several experiments I think a very rigid and thin "false bottom" is best for tone and sustain. I also think that the inside face of the "false bottom" should be coated in something that is "sonically reflective." A hard layer of shellac, polyurethane, or anything else that is super rigid.
Id love to see more pictures, the instrument looks awesome
Nate
I am currently the custodian of two "cardboard dulcimers" which have been used in classes and as loaners for about 20 years. They still play well, although their cases are plastic bags. I used them two weeks ago to demonstrate the difference between C-G-G and D-A-A tuning on identical instruments.
I will emphasize that only the bodies are corrugated cardboard. The sticks are 1x2 lumber, and they have guitar fretwire frets, and regular tuners and strings.
A huge part of the true cost of making "a real dulcimer" is in the sanding-varnishing-sanding-varnishing of the wood body, and this has no effect on the sound.
Wow, that's pretty cool Chris. What material is the dulcimer made from? Also, do you mean that it has an additional sound board on the inside of the instrument?
it is underneath the dulcimer (to stop it being muffled by the knees!). I am not happy with it so I am going to change that.
RevDave -- I suggest investing $50 or so in a carboard dulcimer. The sound is good, the frets are dead on and intonation can be adjusted if needs be. They're a greater learner instrument, and can be 'upograded' by making a simple wooden box... The picture shows a cardboard dulcimer fretboard transferred to a Virginia-style elliptical body that a student made ...
cardboard? Really! These things exist? I once made a nominally working “organ pipe” from a sheet of notebook paper, but a cardboard dulcimer…
I assume made from corrugated boxlike material? How do they hold up?
RevDave -- I suggest investing $50 or so in a carboard dulcimer. The sound is good, the frets are dead on and intonation can be adjusted if needs be. They're a greater learner instrument, and can be 'upograded' by making a simple wooden box... The picture shows a cardboard dulcimer fretboard transferred to a Virginia-style elliptical body that a student made ...
cardboard? Really! These things exist? I once made a nominally working “organ pipe” from a sheet of notebook paper, but a cardboard dulcimer…
I assume made from corrugated boxlike material? How do they hold up?
Wow, that's pretty cool Chris. What material is the dulcimer made from? Also, do you mean that it has an additional sound board on the inside of the instrument?
RevDave -- I suggest investing $50 or so in a carboard dulcimer. The sound is good, the frets are dead on and intonation can be adjusted if needs be. They're a greater learner instrument, and can be 'upograded' by making a simple wooden box... The picture shows a cardboard dulcimer fretboard transferred to a Virginia-style elliptical body that a student made ...
RevDave: ALL of the issues you have with your no-name kit dulcimer are pretty easily fixed -- by you-- with a little help from your friends here, for less than $20 and a little time. PM me if you'd like some help fixing it up...
The fact that the instrument is plywood means absolutely nothing -- there are wonderful sounding plywood dulcimers, cardboard dulcimers, even dulcimers made from Legos(tm) and plexiglass!
Thanks Ken. I appreciate your offer and your wisdom, but the dulcimer isn’t mine to repair. That’s partly what’s so frustrating. I have to return it as-is.
RevDave: ALL of the issues you have with your no-name kit dulcimer are pretty easily fixed -- by you-- with a little help from your friends here, for less than $20 and a little time. PM me if you'd like some help fixing it up...
The fact that the instrument is plywood means absolutely nothing -- there are wonderful sounding plywood dulcimers, cardboard dulcimers, even dulcimers made from Legos(tm) and plexiglass!
Hi, Its along time since I have been on here, but I have decided to become active again. I started by building me a new dulcimer. This on has 6 strings plus 8 sympathetic strings. Also a sounding board. It sounds quite nice
Hi, Its along time since I have been on here, but I have decided to become active again. I started by building me a new dulcimer. This on has 6 strings plus 8 sympathetic strings. Also a sounding board. It sounds quite nice
