Forum Activity for @nate

Apologies Robert, I accidentally deleted it while trying to edit it. Thank you for reposting it 

Very nice! Congratulations.

Hello all. I'm pleased to report back to you...finally...success!
I basically followed all of your advice about the string height issue, remaking the bridge, etc., and I've strung it up, tuned it up, and it's sounding (and looking) pretty great to me! I'm very pleased with how it turned out. The action is still a little high, but still seems pretty playable to me, and the intonation is surprisingly good. Even the tuning pegs seem to be keeping it in tune, at least for now (it took a lot of futzing with them, but I finally got them working pretty well). See attached photos...I also made a little video of me telling about the dulcimer & it's restoration, and even me playing it a little bit so you can see what it sounds like. Here's the link to that:

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Yes, that makes sense. You need to make the touch point of the string on the bridge just a little higher than the tail so that the string is vibrating from the bridge and not the tail piece. So you are right that you will need to make a new bridge.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thanks Ken. That's helpful. I'm thinking that before modifying the original wood on the tail end of the dulcimer, I may just try and string it up with all three strings up to pitch, and play it some, and see how it does. But I assume that in order to even do that I will need to replace the bridge that's now too low for the strings to even touch...right? I guess I can replace it with a bridge high enough so the strings just barely break over it (including some minimal slots). Does that make sense?

I worked on a dulcimer that has a similar problem. When I put the straight edge on the top of the fret (these were regular frets across the whole fret board) I discovered that the section after the strum hollow to the tail was 1/4 inch higher that the rest of the fret board. That back was perfectly flat. I trimmed off that quarter inch, cut a new slot for the bridge, the slots for the strings, etc. and wound up with a great playing dulcimer for the customer. You never know what idiosyncrasies you'll find on some of the these instruments. I'm not suggesting that this is your problem. You noted that the tail piece on your dulcimer is higher than the fret board so you would either need to trim it down level or live with higher action. The question is do you want to live with the historical value of the Dixon dulcimer or would you rather have a dulcimer that can be played finger picking style rather than noter style. I've found that many older dulcimers have higher action, not just for noter style playing, but also the maker doesn't have to level the frets that way.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thanks Strumelia. That's helpful. I'll be considering the lighter strings, especially now that I've identified some bow in the fretboard (see below).

Thanks Nate, for your note that I saw by email, but for some reason isn't showing up here in the forum. I'll copy it here just to keep everything in one place...you said, "First thing is first, i would recommend detuning the instrument. It is possible that the tail end is being pulled upward by the string tension. Perhaps check with a straight edge."
So I did check with a straightedge, laid on the tops of the frets, and I do note some bow in the fretboard, such that the 7th fret is below the bottom of the string by about the thickness of the nickel plus the dime on top of it (since we're using that measuring system for now!). I didn't really need to detune, since I've only put the middle string on it so far, for the purpose of making these initial adjustments to the nut & bridge height, and I haven't even tuned it up to pitch yet. So, that being said, once I do install all three strings, and tune them up to pitch, I'm wondering what that will do to my fretboard bow. Whether or not the bow changes, what are your all's thought about how to address the problem? Thanks!

From your photos, the middle string is 'barely' over the frets... more only over the rounded ends of the frets. This is fairly common in noter-designed instruments, and is simply to allow for enough of a flat surface for the frets... but it's not intended that the middle string actually be fretted on the fret ends. I do not believe the middle string is intended to be fretted. Perhaps some other makers of traditional dulcimers can chime in on this.

Again, I might suggest slightly lighter gauge strings on this old and somewhat fragile instrument, especially if you intend to tune it to the key of D.

Hello...me again.
SO...I've been working on the dime & nickel method of setting the height of the nut & bridge. It went well starting on the nut end, and I got the height down very close to the dime beside the first fret. I stopped there to work on the bridge, and thinking I might play it some after that, knowing I could come back and work on both the nut & bridge some more, if needed.
Anyway, when I proceeded to work on the bridge, I was gradually working my way down to the height of a nickel resting on the 7th fret, and before I realized it, I had taken it down below the height of the end of the dulcimer itself where the strings pass over it from where they are attached (see attached photo). When I realized that, I checked again with the nickel on the 7th fret, and saw that the string is still a good bit higher than the nickel (in fact, it's about the height of the dime stacked on top of the nickel). So, obviously, reducing the bridge any more at this point is useless. 
Could this mean that the builder meant for the strings to be that high (the height of the end of the dulcimer), and so he would have perhaps built the bridge basically the same height at that?
Or some other explanation?
Other thoughts on what to do at this point?
Thanks!

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Makes good sense, Nate. Thanks for clarifying that point. Being new to the dulcimer, I'm not sure what feel I like, but from what I've read, it seems that the overall goal is for the height to be low enough to play comfortably without buzzing, right?

One more question for you (or for anyone)...since my dulcimer is designed with the middle string to be over the frets (along with the melody string), I assume there are times when you would fret the middle string, and perhaps play chords with those two strings, right (assuming I'm playing with my fingers, and not a noter)?

With that said though, I think it's best to simply start with the nut and bridge too tall, and then slowly bring them lower until you get the feel you like, with the range of 0.3mm to 0.8mm between the bottom of the string and the top of the crown of the first fret being a general guideline

Robert that is correct. Using a dime is most effective on instruments with mandolin fretwire. I use jumbo fretwire, which has a crown height that is actually taller than the thickness of a dime. Its a useful trick to avoid needing gauges, but  cant be done with taller fret crowns. the actual distance between the crown of the first fret and the bottom of the string could be as low as 0.3 mm and as high as 0.8mm. If you're planning on playing your instrument at a lower string tension, you may want to consider around 0.5-0.6 mm 

Thanks to all of you for the additional advice...that all makes sense to me.
Only remaining question as I thought about it a little more is, using the dime measuring method at the first fret, it seems that its usefulness would depend partly on how high your frets are, right? Or maybe all dulcimer frets are pretty much the same height (pretty low, speaking as a guitarist & guitar builder)?

The dulcimer has 3 strings, and the frets are mostly only under the melody string. This dulcimer was designed to be played noter style, with fretting only the melody string and letting the middle and bass strings ring open.
As you mentioned, the orig nut slots positioned the strings so that the melody is centered over the frets, but there is a little extra space between the melody string and the middle string. (in other words, a little more space between the melody and middle string, and a little less space between the middle and bass string). This is on purpose, in order to avoid the end of your noter (or your finger, if you are fretting with a finger) from touching or bumping into the middle string while playing. On all my noter style instruments, I ask for that extra space, rather than positioning all the strings equal distance from each other. It gives 'extra grace' allowance while fretting the melody string. I used to play pretty fast with my noter, and what with varying noter angles as I play on different parts of the fretboard (up to the 10th or 12th fret sometimes), there's a danger of touching the middle string with my noter tip and making unpleasant sounds/muting/buzzing if that happens. The tiny bit of extra spacing for the melody string allows for this and to me at least it is a big advantage having that leeway. This is a logical thing to do particularly if the frets are under the melody string only, clearly indicating the noter/drone playing intention.

I've use the method that John suggests except I've always measured with the dime on the saddle side of the first fret. I'm not sure it really makes too much difference which side of the fret it is on. For my dulcimers intended to be played noter style I usually raise the string height a little.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Correct....I can't claim credit for the "hack"....but it's nice, simple, and worth a heap more than the .15 cent investment.........

Hey, I like that approach! I've got digital calipers and all that fancy stuff, but I like this more...thanks! (But just to clarify, when you say "before the first fret" for the dime, I assume you mean not on top of the 1st fret, but on the fretboard, right before it...right?)

I've heard this before [from Skip perhaps...] but a dime just before the first fret, and a nickel on top of the 7th. Do the dime [nut] first, then attack the bridge. As you are probably aware, it's a lot easier taking off not enough than taking off too much.....

Hello all. And thanks again for all of your help so far.
I'm happy to report that I have restored the dulcimer to pretty good shape, basically taking it apart and putting it back together again (using Titebond glue), so it feels pretty sturdy. I was able to fix the cracks, which I have reinforced with cleats, etc. I have also gotten rid of the bizarre tuning system, and have found some wooden pegs that that I have been able to make work for now, and I have gotten just a basic set of D'Addario EJ64 strings to start with (which gives me two 0.012 gauge strings for the melody & middle, and a 0.022 for the bass). And finally, I was able to make a new nut & bridge out of some ebony that I had on hand. 
SO...now I'm at the point of setting it up, and I have some questions about that. My main questions are about string spacing and nut & bridge (and string) height. I have found various opinions online about those subjects, but I thought I'd ask here for perhaps some more experienced voices. 
Just a reminder, if you saw the photos I posted originally (of mine and the one sold by Wilcutt), this dulcimer is just 3 strings, and the frets do not extend all the way across the fretboard. As I look at the Wilcutt example (see attached photo), it looks to me like the melody & middle strings are spaced about as far as they can be on the available fret length, and that the middle string is slightly closer to the bass string. Is this about what I should be shooting for in terms of spacing?
And as for nut & bridge (and string) height, I've seen various opinions about what it should be, ranging from the string height at the nut being 0.015-0.030" above the fret crown at the first fret, to the saddle being 1/16" above the 1st fret and 1/8" above the 17th, etc., etc. What say you?
Thanks!

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Thanks Strumelia. I thought I had replied to you the other day, but don't seem to see it here, so will repeat it here. I appreciate your helpful suggestions about string gauges, tuning pegs, etc. Now that I have basically taken apart and put back together the instrument, using Titebond glue, I feel like it's pretty sturdy and not as fragile as it had been. So I've ended up starting with just a set of D'Addario EJ64 strings (which I could get cheap and free shipping from StewMac, who I order a lot from), which gives me two 0.012 gauge strings for the melody & middle, and a 0.022 for the bass. And for the pegs, I did want to at least start with the original type of wooden friction pegs, to take it back closer to its original configuration...I may upgrade later. So I was able to find some inexpensive ones online that I was able to make work for now. Now I'm at the point of setting it up, and I have some questions about that, so I'll ask them in my next post, to everyone. Thanks for any additional advice! 

Hi,    The main purpose of that bridge is to adjust intonation, as I understand it.  Speak with Joe Collins, who is affiliated with NHD.  He is very helpful.  Good Luck!  

Anybody out there know anything about the New Harmony instruments bridge? The main question I have is about the Accutune module bridge. Any idea can you adjust the action and then lock everything into place so it doesn't get out of adjustment? Or you just adjust it for intonation, and no option for action, and it has a tendency to move out of place? 

Thanks Robin. It's one of the most finely crafted instruments I own. I would love to hear from anyone else that owns a Stockard dulcimer, as well as any info on how many he may have built, etc.

I am updating my homeowners insurance and would welcome any opinions on its value. It was so long ago I can't remember what I paid for it.

You have a treasure there-- happy strumming! 

Thanks Dusty.  

I fixed the spelling in the title. And yes, John Stockard produced very elegant dulcimers with impeccable intonation.

VERY nice! I really like the headstock neck area....impressive.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Ken. It is obviously a John Stockard dulcimer. Misspelling error.

Old Dawg, you might want to check the name of the maker of your dulcimer. The photo of the label says it is made by John Stockard. He was a builder in Georgia.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Many years ago I contacted John Stockard about building me a dulcimer. He told me he was no longer building but he would be willing to sell me one of his personal instruments. I bought it. It came in a "well traveled; soft case. The dulcimer was in excellent condition with minor wear. If I remember correctly, he called it his concert model. It has a beautiful, full round sound with excellent sustain. It is 38" long. The bouts are 8 1/4" and 6 3/4". It has gold Gotoh tuners. Attached are some photos I took this morning. Thanks in advance for any responses.

https://www.amazon.com/Imelod-Contact-Microphone-Ukulele-Mandolin/dp/B01M5IB4X7

This one is nice in that it has only a 10 inch lead so you don't have wire hanging all over. The lead is braid instead of plain plastic. "looks" like some of the more expensive ones.... That being said, I know of no manufacturer that uses a different piezo element in its' pick ups.The plastic housings may look different, but electronically and mechanically they ALL are the same. The price points are based on marketing, not what is inside. And at under 10 bucks it is sure worth the trying either way......

I would suggest perhaps using a small square of "alien tape" to affix to the dulcimers top, no worries then of double sided tape marring your good looks.....

Since apparently amplification isn't allowed, you may want to consider a particularly loud dulcimer. Some dulcimers are quite a bit louder than others. There are a lot of options depending on what kind of tone you prefer. In general, larger dulcimers that can support heavier strings will often be a lot louder than smaller instruments, however if you are looking for something portable, you may need to compromise. 

Remember to "dab" the area...don't "wipe", In case there is residual pencil marks etc,you don't want to rub them off.

I've exposed some "made for xxx" or dedications and poems over the years....Enjoy the quest!

That’s a great idea John. I’ve repacked the dulcimer so won’t be able to try that until I get back home with it in two weeks. I’ll let you know if I’m able to read anything.

Here's a handy page concerning busking/playing/performance on NYC subways:
https://www.mta.info/agency/arts-design/music/subway-performance-rules
You'll have to obey their stated rules on amplification (since you mention 'pickups'). 

A hardshell case might be good to protect your dulcimer while moving around/crowded stairwells, rain, etc.

One cheap solution might be to buy or build a wooden "possum board" to put your cardboard dulcimers on while playing acoustically... such boards do help increase volume and resonance, without electronics. You could make one to fit your existing instruments pretty easily. Do a site search here for "possum board" and you'll find lots of info.

I'm thinking about starting to busk in the NYC subways in the next few years (if/when I ever get the courage). Right now I have two Backyard Music dulcimers with cardboard soundboxes—one diatonic, one chromatic—but would love to acquire a more grown-up instrument with a built-in pickup that isn't TOO nice to the point where I'd worry about it getting broken in the subways. Do you have any recommendations? Should I instead get a guitar pickup for the cardboard dulcimers I already have and do my best with one of those? 

Asking for a friend.  We play in a group and sometimes need to plug in for a local performance.  My friend has a wonderful 26" walnut/sycamore McSpadden.  She meant when she ordered it to request a pickup, but didn't look at the order form closely enough and it was didn't happen.  We live in Alaska, so not feasible to take it to Mountain View.  Sending it in to add a pickup probably also doesn't work, as this is her main player and there'd be a least a month down time.  So, do any of you have recommendations for an external pickup?  I'd probably be interested myself for some of my more vintage dulcimers (for instance, I have a lovely 1991 teardrop Blue Lion).  Thanks in advance.

Paula, I'm glad that you finally were able to connect with your Chet Hines dulcimer. Enjoy it. Let us know what you find if follow John's suggestion.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

That is SO nice! I always wished some of these instruments could talk and tell the tales of the past....Yours comes pretty close!  A water wet q-tip brushed over the old scratches may bring out enough contrast to read them...It'll evaporate with no harm done...

Sometimes comments get embedded in forums on related topics.  Here was one place the video was posted , in a conversation on the popularity of the dulcimer.